Epona222 wrote: »

There is no new gold coming in, but it is now being gathered in the hands of a few people who have a lot of IRL money and are selling crown store items to other players for gold. This is creating a massive imbalance in the economy.

I am very sorry you cannot see that.

Uh, did you miss the "how much gold do you have" thread? Most of the gold was already "gathered into the hands of a few people", the trade moguls. With large amounts of the playerbase languishing in relative poverty. Seems more likely that a bunch of people with some crowns would sell a crown store item or two, in order to finally have enough to buy a big house for once; than for some super-moneybags to spend all their $ trying to collect the entire gold supply.


Not that I'm going to do either of those, personally. Don't have enough gold to buy crown items, even if there were ones I wanted (I've had crowns sitting waiting for something I want to buy since last Black Friday). And I don't want to waste those crowns I'm saving for some gold that I don't need badly. /shrug

edit:

Tandor wrote: »

What game economy? It only exists for the proportion of the players who trade. I haven't noticed any change in the prices paid by the NPC merchants and that's the only economy the rest of us experience !

Also, that.

Epona222 wrote: »

Allowing trading of crowns for gold.

I have heard several people say that is not "P2W", because crown items are only cosmetic.

However, this is neglecting to look at the other side of the transaction.

People who can open their IRL wallets and offer crown items for sale, are now able to afford anything they like - vet trial carries, guild kiosks, any boe gear they want, carries in dungeons with dungeon gear being exchanged for the limitless amount of gold now available to the IRL wealthy in the game - there are now many multi-billionaires in game, simply due to this one thing.

And it is destroying the economy, and destroying trading.

I wonder whether this thread will be allowed to stay up, but I would like to hear any comments.

you cant buy crap with gold, all the good stuff is bind on pick up, who give a *** about all the other stuff

POps75p wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

Allowing trading of crowns for gold.

I have heard several people say that is not "P2W", because crown items are only cosmetic.

However, this is neglecting to look at the other side of the transaction.

People who can open their IRL wallets and offer crown items for sale, are now able to afford anything they like - vet trial carries, guild kiosks, any boe gear they want, carries in dungeons with dungeon gear being exchanged for the limitless amount of gold now available to the IRL wealthy in the game - there are now many multi-billionaires in game, simply due to this one thing.

And it is destroying the economy, and destroying trading.

I wonder whether this thread will be allowed to stay up, but I would like to hear any comments.

you cant buy crap with gold, all the good stuff is bind on pick up, who give a *** about all the other stuff

Gold Sloads

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

POps75p wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

Allowing trading of crowns for gold.

I have heard several people say that is not "P2W", because crown items are only cosmetic.

However, this is neglecting to look at the other side of the transaction.

People who can open their IRL wallets and offer crown items for sale, are now able to afford anything they like - vet trial carries, guild kiosks, any boe gear they want, carries in dungeons with dungeon gear being exchanged for the limitless amount of gold now available to the IRL wealthy in the game - there are now many multi-billionaires in game, simply due to this one thing.

And it is destroying the economy, and destroying trading.

I wonder whether this thread will be allowed to stay up, but I would like to hear any comments.

you cant buy crap with gold, all the good stuff is bind on pick up, who give a *** about all the other stuff

Gold Sloads

You do realize that someone wandering around picking up and refining mats can get gold tempers, right?

For the heck of it, I made a full set of cp160 sloads, upgraded it to purple. Decided it wasn't worth bothering with for pve. Gave it away to a guildmate who pvps. I could have easily made it gold. Not that big of a difference in stats, tbh. I'm using a set of Morkuldin's and Hundings, all gold. I still get killed. Buying tempers to gold gear is not going to make an unstoppable uber leet overlord of all Tamriel.

People are and have been buying carries. They've been paying other players to actually use their accounts and get the achievements/skins, for that matter. A while ago there was a thread from someone who was mad because the then emperor wouldn't take a payoff to allow himself to be killed. Allowing gifting isn't going to change how some of the players behave. There have been multimillionaires in the game before gifting was ever announced. So some players now have more gold that is basically pointless to have. Unless they are planning on making fake guilds and bidding on dozens of traders to punk other guilds, what is the point to billions and billions of gold?

The fact that we can officially trade gold for crown store items is one of the best things developers ever did in the game (for me at least)
For example, I would never justify spending 10k crowns on banker and merchant, or 5k crowns on crates "rng". So far assistants are best things I've ever bought with gold - my mansion itself is so useless compared to them Everyone was happy: me, other player, developers (cause they got extra crowns purchase which they wouldn't get otherwise in this case). Even my gold was happy, cause it was finally used for a good cause and returned to economy, instead of being hoarded

How do you trade crowns for gold? I must have missed that part.

Epona222 wrote: »

Allowing trading of crowns for gold.

I have heard several people say that is not "P2W", because crown items are only cosmetic.

However, this is neglecting to look at the other side of the transaction.

People who can open their IRL wallets and offer crown items for sale, are now able to afford anything they like - vet trial carries, guild kiosks, any boe gear they want, carries in dungeons with dungeon gear being exchanged for the limitless amount of gold now available to the IRL wealthy in the game - there are now many multi-billionaires in game, simply due to this one thing.

And it is destroying the economy, and destroying trading.

I wonder whether this thread will be allowed to stay up, but I would like to hear any comments.

LOL...If you need to be carried in a vet trial...I don't care what gear your'e getting from this carry...you will never "win"...whatever "win" means to OP...

Its a game.. Who gives a rats ass about some virtual economy, play the game, stop trying to turn it into a boring stock market...

JKorr wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

Here’s my only issue with it. I actually think it’s not a bad system but let’s say tommy and his friends have rich parents and each of them have a thousand bucks to waste so they sell crates or whatever other crown store item. A few friends could gather 20 million gold in no time. So they can now go out bid Johnny and his friends on a trader that they spent the last 6 months on collecting low dues and grinding for stuff to sell and raffle to make their bid. How is this not p2w?

Okay, they gather 20 million gold and outbid the other guy/guild. Traders stay "bought" for a week, right? The friends who outbid Johnny and Co. to get the trader, have they also gathered enough items/mats/tempers/whatevers to fill the trader slots? They going to make back their original bid plus more so they can do the whole exercise over in a week? Or have they simply thrown 20 million gold out the window to say up yours to Johnny and his friends, who haven't lost any gold or items and can make another bid and fill the trader slots?

Is there some secret Achievement for getting a trader or something? One for gathering "elebenty bazillion gold"? What on Nirn do you "win" if you get a trader [hopefully on a consistent basis] and sell stuff? What would they be paying to win?

No there’s no secret achievement. And as I stated before you don’t have to bid 20 million to get a trader. Don’t you think that the majority of ppl that started guild in the last couple years would have like to started with an excessive amount of gold? Idk if you or others are aware but it is much easier to recruit players to join a guild if you have a decent trader. You can get daggerfall for 1.5m easy and hold it. I don’t understand why it’s hard for anyone to see that if you have the cash then you have the advantage. Yes this is the case with anything and it won’t change but those that deny it are delusional. Let me try to paint it with crayons. If I farm and sell for a week to make 1M and you sell two 15 packs of crown crates for 1M in 5 minutes, did you not just pay to beat me!? Do you not have an advantage over me because you’re spending real money? This is p2w whether denying it or not. I’m not pushing for a change, I’m just stating facts.

There's "endgame" content that consists of "how fast can you make gold"? How, exactly did I "beat" you when I have no idea that getting billions of gold is some kind of race? Who keeps track? I don't think I've ever noticed any kind of leaderboards or ladders. I know there aren't any tangible rewards, but please, tell me what exactly, specifically is the in-game "prize" I've won because I 'beat' you and got the same amount of gold in the end? :hopes it will be a radiant apex senche mount that you can't buy for gold: What is the advantage I've just paid to win?

I really don't understand. There are players who have, either alone or with multiple guilds, accumulated hundreds of millions of gold. Good for them. They can, if they actually play the game instead of constantly farming/trading, still be a really crappy, totally suxxors player who can't fight swarming mudcrabs. Totally filthy swimming in gold rich, yes. But still a crappy player at the game part of the game.

Don’t really know where you’re going with this. My point was a lot of ppl had to grind to get a start on building a guild and now all you have to do is have a few hundred bucks to buy that gold to get started. I don’t really care how fast someone can kill a mudcrab??? And I guess you are just here to argue because I’ve answered your question at least 3 times. Either you have no idea how guild system works or you’re defending yourself because you’re doing exactly what I’m talking about. I’m not here to argue nor knock anyone that is making gold from selling items from crown store but to answer your question for the 4th time on how exactly did you beat me. If I actually play the game to make my gold and you buy your gold then you have a quicker more efficient way of getting ahead of me and most definitely will accumulate more gold than me. It’s a shortcut to the top and like everything else all you gotta have is the $.

Okay, now I see. You think starting a guild is what the game is for. Making the guild one of the top ones by getting tons of gold to block out other guilds and take trader kiosks is the "end game". Good luck to you. I am not the gm of any guild, and you couldn't pay me enough gold to be one. Right now I have 200k in my bank. With the exception of 500 gold I won in a guild raffle, all the gold I have I've played the game to get. I sold motifs I got, and tempers/mats I got from refining mats I farmed and deconning gear I got from drops. I am soooo concerned about making gold by any means possible, I make armor, weapons, food, potions, and glyphs for guildmates under cp160 without asking for mats for free. I make green gear for random new players for free. Being a trading guild mafia/tycoon isn't a part of my game. So sorry, I have no frame of reference for "beating" someone by piling up gold in the game to make a guild to get more gold. :shrug:

You’re not GM of any guild? Then how does my argument have anything to do with you? Why would you comment on something you know nothing about? You keep going off on killing mud crabs and crafting potions like it has anything to do with the conversation. I’m glad you craft for guild mates for free, I’ve been doing it for 3 years. To me Running a guild isn’t about piling up gold to beat everyone else
But when there is ppl doing it and ZOS giving them an easy way to do it makes it pretty difficult to keep the 2000+ guildmates happy.

swippy wrote: »

yeah, we can buy whatever we feel like buying now. i can afford to be dead weight through vDSA ten times without batting an eye. i could go around and search out 3 players strong enough to carry me, and after finding enough people with enough confidence, hope tnat they aren't blowing smoke up me bum and can actually deliver. and whether they're lying or not, i still have to spend a bunch of time watching and waiting for these people to finish the content for me. i could also spend that same time doing something more fun, or making more money instead. that sounds like a terrible evening.

but something about doing that feels scummy (apart from the boredom). and if i were a person who'd buy my way through a game, i'd probably do it on a game where it wasn't so boring to do, or i'd be doing it on so many games in succession that i'd be a flash-in-the-pan of economic stimulus and not very harmful at all.

i think you're gonna have to make a stronger case if you want your readers to believe it's destroying the economy. it hasn't really been a problem on my megaserver.

You don't need to wait around. They'd just bring you in on the last boss. That's how most carries are done.

Rawkan wrote: »

Top tier trading guilds are just upset that they can't control the market.

Nah they still will as they coordinate with eachother. This just makes it harder for new trading guilds managed by people who dont want to spend IRL money. Most of the top guilds already bid several million more than the general price for the stall just so they can ensure they win. What this will likely do is increase the overall price on all traders and especially increase the middle tier stalls like daggerfall, craglorn, etc. It's already starting to increase.

Turelus wrote: »

Being able to buy in game money for real life money doesn't harm the economy, it stimulates it.

There is no new gold being injected into the game, it's just being moved around the playerbase. This means more gold with more players rather than stored only with the richest ones who won't buy materials etc. because they rarely need them.
The people buying gold for crowns want that gold to spend, either on housing/NPC items (gold sinks) or on items via the traders from players (movement of funds, good for economy and trading).

Note that EVE Online has had the option to buy in game currency for real life money via their PLEX system for years and that game has one of the most complex and well functioning economies in MMO gaming.

Edit to make it read a little better.

So does Guild Wars 2

ResTandRespeC wrote: »

swippy wrote: »

yeah, we can buy whatever we feel like buying now. i can afford to be dead weight through vDSA ten times without batting an eye. i could go around and search out 3 players strong enough to carry me, and after finding enough people with enough confidence, hope tnat they aren't blowing smoke up me bum and can actually deliver. and whether they're lying or not, i still have to spend a bunch of time watching and waiting for these people to finish the content for me. i could also spend that same time doing something more fun, or making more money instead. that sounds like a terrible evening.

but something about doing that feels scummy (apart from the boredom). and if i were a person who'd buy my way through a game, i'd probably do it on a game where it wasn't so boring to do, or i'd be doing it on so many games in succession that i'd be a flash-in-the-pan of economic stimulus and not very harmful at all.

i think you're gonna have to make a stronger case if you want your readers to believe it's destroying the economy. it hasn't really been a problem on my megaserver.

You don't need to wait around. They'd just bring you in on the last boss. That's how most carries are done.

that makes sense, and i do appreciate you informing me on that.

it still sounds like a bunch of waiting around making sure any content i do participate in in the meantime isn't engaging at all. still sounds like that comes after all the work of filtering through the blowhards and the con-artists and the well-meaning-but-incapable. i'd be, what, fishing or skyshard hunting, hoping that the cool kids call me pretty soon, if they're gonna get back to me?

but that's got nothing to do with either of us, and i appreciate you sharing your insight. just because it sounds weird to me doesn't mean bored/boring kids (maybe whose bank's been given to them, maybe who just can't imagine time spent funner) wouldn't just sit around for the invite.


i do still dispute that it's "destroying the economy" and i again invite @Epona222 to state a convincing case for his readers. most of us are finding the economy not-at-all destroyed, but quite intact and dynamic. OP seems to be choosing a quite narrow view for the very existence of the economy, and i'd love to hear what it entails.