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Weapon enchantments bug, back bar carrying over to front bar.
MashmalloMan
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Update: Gina confirmed on page 2 of the comments that this change was intended.
So I think I found an issue with enchantments and how they proc/function. In the patch notes the only thing changed was:
"Infused (Weapon): Fixed an issue where the cooldown reduction was applying to both of your Weapon Enchantments if you were dual wielding."
Something else changed:
On live: Endless Hail on your back bar would proc whatever enchantment you had on your main hand front bar.
Cast endless hail -> bar swap -> poison enchant main hand would proc 5 times in the span of 10 seconds if you had it on your main hand (it didn't work off hand, but having infused on main or off hand would provide the CD reduction for the enchant which they fixed)
On pts: Endless hail on your back bar proc's whatever enchant it has on itself. It will carry it to the front bar.
Cast endless hail -> bar swap -> absorb stamina proc's 5 times even though I have a poison enchant main/off hand.
Is this intended? This means having an infused bow back bar actually carries over the enchantment with endless hail to the front bar procing MORE than the enchantment I had on my main hand.
So what proc's the poison enchantment main hand DW?
Skills like poison injection's DoT and rending slashes DoT do NOT proc enchantments on live and pts so thats normal, only the initial direct dmg hit works. I actually found rending slashes didn't proc the enchantment sometimes and I know poison was off cd. Light and heavy attacks of course and the first hit from weapon skills.
The closest thing I could find to reliable was actually blade cloak. You will notice blade cloak hit 6 times (3 sec interval between hits) and poison proc'ed 6 times (2 sec GCD with infused). While I was on my front bar with blade cloak, endless hail is shown to proc absorb stamina 5 times (infused bow back bar) which lines up with the 2 sec GCD and the 10 seconds of endless hail.
The last thing I found is that blade cloak doesn't continue to proc the main hand enchantment if the INITIAL hit of blade cloak doesn't proc poison enchant first. To illustrate I used flurry to make sure poison enchantment was on GCD then I cast blade cloak. For the remaining 15 seconds or 5 hits past the first, it didn't proc poison at all.
So the long and short of it is, your main hand DW enchantment is now very unreliable with a traditional DW/BOW pve setup because it will no longer proc off of your Endless Hail from your back bar and the enchantment on your back bar now carries over with endless hail instead. I also found that if you can manage to get blade cloak's initial hit when you cast the ability to proc poison enchantment it will proc off the remaining hits of the buff, no matter if you are on front or back bar.
Edited by MashmalloMan on July 20, 2018 5:04PM So I think I found an issue with enchantments and how they proc/function. In the patch notes the only thing changed was:
"Infused (Weapon): Fixed an issue where the cooldown reduction was applying to both of your Weapon Enchantments if you were dual wielding."
Something else changed:
On live: Endless Hail on your back bar would proc whatever enchantment you had on your main hand front bar.
Cast endless hail -> bar swap -> poison enchant main hand would proc 5 times in the span of 10 seconds if you had it on your main hand (it didn't work off hand, but having infused on main or off hand would provide the CD reduction for the enchant which they fixed)
On pts: Endless hail on your back bar proc's whatever enchant it has on itself. It will carry it to the front bar.
Cast endless hail -> bar swap -> absorb stamina proc's 5 times even though I have a poison enchant main/off hand.
Is this intended? This means having an infused bow back bar actually carries over the enchantment with endless hail to the front bar procing MORE than the enchantment I had on my main hand.
So what proc's the poison enchantment main hand DW?
Skills like poison injection's DoT and rending slashes DoT do NOT proc enchantments on live and pts so thats normal, only the initial direct dmg hit works. I actually found rending slashes didn't proc the enchantment sometimes and I know poison was off cd. Light and heavy attacks of course and the first hit from weapon skills.
The closest thing I could find to reliable was actually blade cloak. You will notice blade cloak hit 6 times (3 sec interval between hits) and poison proc'ed 6 times (2 sec GCD with infused). While I was on my front bar with blade cloak, endless hail is shown to proc absorb stamina 5 times (infused bow back bar) which lines up with the 2 sec GCD and the 10 seconds of endless hail.
The last thing I found is that blade cloak doesn't continue to proc the main hand enchantment if the INITIAL hit of blade cloak doesn't proc poison enchant first. To illustrate I used flurry to make sure poison enchantment was on GCD then I cast blade cloak. For the remaining 15 seconds or 5 hits past the first, it didn't proc poison at all.
So the long and short of it is, your main hand DW enchantment is now very unreliable with a traditional DW/BOW pve setup because it will no longer proc off of your Endless Hail from your back bar and the enchantment on your back bar now carries over with endless hail instead. I also found that if you can manage to get blade cloak's initial hit when you cast the ability to proc poison enchantment it will proc off the remaining hits of the buff, no matter if you are on front or back bar.
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Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If I understand you correctly this means you should run Infused poison enchant back bar? Infused/Nirnhorned weapon damage enchant on main hand front bar?0 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If I understand you correctly this means you should run Infused poison enchant back bar? Infused/Nirnhorned weapon damage enchant on main hand front bar?
I don't know what it means or if it's intentional, but using infused mainhand front bar poison shows little benefit when your back bar proc's double as much infused. There isn't anything besides light/heavy attacks and initial hits from rending/blade cloak/flurry/flying dagger that proc the enchant and it seems to matter which hand your using so that isn't super reliable either. If it was, that first picture I have in my post would have more than just 15 procs in 72 seconds. There is nothing to carry the front bar enchant to the back bar like endless hail other than blade cloak but only works if you're lucky.Edited by MashmalloMan on July 13, 2018 4:38AM0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Good work.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on July 13, 2018 4:49AM0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Marshall1289 wrote: »
Well I thought about it more and looked at your screenshot, you can bearlt see it but you have
Tons of light attacks.0 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Marshall1289 wrote: »
Well I thought about it more and looked at your screenshot, you can bearlt see it but you have
Tons of light attacks.
Oh true yeah, the 1 near the top is from the main hand the 1 near the bottom is bow. Gonna test to see if wall of elements does the same thing as endless hail.0 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭they got changed to not proc both I believe so its a nerf
I don't think you realized my point from the post. What is in the patch notes has nothing to do with what I found. Thus it seems like it's a bug or a ninja nerf/buff.
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Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I never realised dot ticks could proc your enchant - always thought it had to be direct damage..
Learn something new every day!Minalan owes me a beer.
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Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I never realised dot ticks could proc your enchant - always thought it had to be direct damage..
Learn something new every day!
Specifically weapon based ground AOE dots. Single target dots do not proc. Pretty sure that channels don't either, ie flurry. So pretty much just wall of elements and endless hail.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on July 13, 2018 11:13AM0 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I can confirm that this is a bug and will get fixed. They are looking into it currently. I am not sure if it will make it to the next PTS patch since they didn't say anything about the time of fix.
As I wrote in the other thread, I don't see this as a bug.
Back bar DoTs procing front bar enchants is the real bug. It makes absolutely no sense. If I have a rain of arrows shot out from a bow that was imbued with absorb stamina, I'd expect that rain of arrows to carry the effect of the weapon that shot it out. Not change its effect because I decided to pull out a pair of daggers dripping with poison.
@ZOS_Wrobel This is not a bug. This new behavior is a fix for a long-standing (and frankly, nonsensical) bug in the game. Do not revert.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
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eso_nya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Does that mean, if i put an infused weapondmg glyph on my bow/firestick backbar, the wd-buff will be up aslong as the hail/woe is up?0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Does that mean, if i put an infused weapondmg glyph on my bow/firestick backbar, the wd-buff will be up aslong as the hail/woe is up?
Weapon damage enchants (berserker) do not proc with ablitys. They need light or heavy attacks to proc.I can confirm that this is a bug and will get fixed. They are looking into it currently. I am not sure if it will make it to the next PTS patch since they didn't say anything about the time of fix.
As I wrote in the other thread, I don't see this as a bug.
Back bar DoTs procing front bar enchants is the real bug. It makes absolutely no sense. If I have a rain of arrows shot out from a bow that was imbued with absorb stamina, I'd expect that rain of arrows to carry the effect of the weapon that shot it out. Not change its effect because I decided to pull out a pair of daggers dripping with poison.
@ZOS_Wrobel This is not a bug. This new behavior is a fix for a long-standing (and frankly, nonsensical) bug in the game. Do not revert.
But you are using magic enchantments, so logic can go right out the window.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on July 13, 2018 11:15AM4 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
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Agree. It makes enchant choice somewhat irrelevant and it's not remotely intuitive that an non equipped weapon would proc an alternate effect.I can confirm that this is a bug and will get fixed. They are looking into it currently. I am not sure if it will make it to the next PTS patch since they didn't say anything about the time of fix.
As I wrote in the other thread, I don't see this as a bug.
Back bar DoTs procing front bar enchants is the real bug. It makes absolutely no sense. If I have a rain of arrows shot out from a bow that was imbued with absorb stamina, I'd expect that rain of arrows to carry the effect of the weapon that shot it out. Not change its effect because I decided to pull out a pair of daggers dripping with poison.
@ZOS_Wrobel This is not a bug. This new behavior is a fix for a long-standing (and frankly, nonsensical) bug in the game. Do not revert.
Enchants are suppose to fire on LA, HA, and weapon skills, not so much on pre-existing damage.
OP, I assume you mean ticks, not initial procs? If not, how are you managing a 2 second cooldown, even with infused?On live: Endless Hail on your back bar would proc whatever enchantment you had on your main hand front bar.
Cast endless hail -> bar swap -> poison enchant main hand would proc 5 times in the span of 10 seconds if you had it on your main hand (it didn't work off hand, but having infused on main or off hand would provide the CD reduction for the enchant which they fixed)
On pts: Endless hail on your back bar proc's whatever enchant it has on itself. It will carry it to the front bar.
Cast endless hail -> bar swap -> absorb stamina proc's 5 times even though I have a poison enchant main/off hand.
EDIT: Apparently I've made too many right turns.
Edited by Merlin13KAGL on July 13, 2018 11:22AMJust because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
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Liofa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I can confirm that this is a bug and will get fixed. They are looking into it currently. I am not sure if it will make it to the next PTS patch since they didn't say anything about the time of fix.
As I wrote in the other thread, I don't see this as a bug.
Back bar DoTs procing front bar enchants is the real bug. It makes absolutely no sense. If I have a rain of arrows shot out from a bow that was imbued with absorb stamina, I'd expect that rain of arrows to carry the effect of the weapon that shot it out. Not change its effect because I decided to pull out a pair of daggers dripping with poison.
@ZOS_Wrobel This is not a bug. This new behavior is a fix for a long-standing (and frankly, nonsensical) bug in the game. Do not revert.
I wish it stayed like this
Would be so much better to be honest. 1 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I can confirm that this is a bug and will get fixed. They are looking into it currently. I am not sure if it will make it to the next PTS patch since they didn't say anything about the time of fix.
As I wrote in the other thread, I don't see this as a bug.
Back bar DoTs procing front bar enchants is the real bug. It makes absolutely no sense. If I have a rain of arrows shot out from a bow that was imbued with absorb stamina, I'd expect that rain of arrows to carry the effect of the weapon that shot it out. Not change its effect because I decided to pull out a pair of daggers dripping with poison.
@ZOS_Wrobel This is not a bug. This new behavior is a fix for a long-standing (and frankly, nonsensical) bug in the game. Do not revert.
I wish it stayed like this Would be so much better to be honest.
What I don't understand is why would ZOS view this new behavior as a bug and not as a bug fix; it seems pretty clear to me that the new behavior is much more intuitive (and immersion-friendly) than the old behavior. Have you communicated this to ZOS?Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
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- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
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Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭@code65536
Perhaps powercreep? (Stamina DPS)
I like the sentiments of what is currently noted as well, and would prefer it to stay this way.
However, Infused Backbar + Enchant could outperform current backbar setups, assuming you properly weave on your frontbar. This of course depends on how Ground Based AoE effects interact with the off-hand DW enchantment. (If it procs the off-hand and main-hand on live, it may be a DPS loss, but if it only procs the main-hand on live, then it could be a DPS increase)
For MagDPS/2H/Bow, this is probably a DPS increase.Edited by Avran_Sylt on July 13, 2018 12:01PM0 -
Liferefugee✭✭Oh no, your back bar weapon uses the back bar enchantment?! Sounds like they fixed an unintended feature (bug).0
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Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm honestly fine with this change. It always bugged me that my backbar Enchantments where completely pointless since Endless was used entirely for frontbar enchants only.Argonian forever0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If I am understanding you correctly, that sounds like they fixed a bug to me. A bow skill should proc the bow enchantment on the bar the skill was used on.I can confirm that this is a bug and will get fixed. They are looking into it currently. I am not sure if it will make it to the next PTS patch since they didn't say anything about the time of fix.
As I wrote in the other thread, I don't see this as a bug.
Back bar DoTs procing front bar enchants is the real bug. It makes absolutely no sense. If I have a rain of arrows shot out from a bow that was imbued with absorb stamina, I'd expect that rain of arrows to carry the effect of the weapon that shot it out. Not change its effect because I decided to pull out a pair of daggers dripping with poison.
@ZOS_Wrobel This is not a bug. This new behavior is a fix for a long-standing (and frankly, nonsensical) bug in the game. Do not revert.
I wish it stayed like this Would be so much better to be honest.
What I don't understand is why would ZOS view this new behavior as a bug and not as a bug fix; it seems pretty clear to me that the new behavior is much more intuitive (and immersion-friendly) than the old behavior. Have you communicated this to ZOS?
It would be a bug if it wasn't a planned change, even if it could end up being better.1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If intended, this would be an interesting change and would also apply to wall of elements.Edited by Dracane on July 13, 2018 1:38PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I do like the change to be honest because I wouldn't need to slot poisons back bar anymore for competitive dps, but it does make your front bar enchant sort of redundant. Using infused/nirn poison enchant main/offhand showed very little dps differences because even with a light attack rotation and using weapon skills you don't always hit the 2 sec or 4 sec cd window without an ability like endless hail hitting every .5 sec.
Wall of elements does the same thing on pts btw. Checked last night.
No one has really talked about my findings on the blade cloak skill. What's the deal with that. Why does it matter if the first hit from blade cloak decides whether or not it can continue to proc the enchantment on the bar it was cast.Edited by MashmalloMan on July 13, 2018 4:59PM0 -
ezeepeezee✭✭✭✭I thought backbar weapon enchants proc'ing on the front bar was a bug that was fixed a while ago already? Isn't that why the meta shifted to using poisons on your bow bar?0
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MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ezeepeezee wrote: »I thought backbar weapon enchants proc'ing on the front bar was a bug that was fixed a while ago already? Isn't that why the meta shifted to using poisons on your bow bar?
No, VMA bow use to be an enchant so when you bar swapped it would copy the infused trait from the main hand on front bar and buff the hell out of the endless hail enchantment. When they changed it to a set bonus instead, using an enchant like poison/diseased/absorb stam on back bar provided little to no dps gain because it only worked on that bar so poisons became the meta as you could use them with a vma bow.
10sec cd/dot carries to front bar - lines up nicely with a stam rotation.
On PTS it carries the enchantment over with endless hail and wall of elements so it actually gave me over 2k dps in my first parse with diseased, pretty much giving 100% uptime as long as endless hail was active.Edited by MashmalloMan on July 13, 2018 4:56PM1 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like the change, don't revert it :PEdited by MashmalloMan on July 13, 2018 4:55PM1
