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Sorcs are easy. Okay
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IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
I think if you die to the first opening part of the combo at that range, you have a lot more problem than a Sorc atm. Your build runs low health, I mean, what do you expect to happen? And your build in itself capitalizes on the range with your high damage Snipe. So... what's the problem here? Most Snipes are not audible unless you are in a very quiet environment. Cuz thanks ZOS.
I have a lot of other problems if I screw up. I mean, you can see multiple of my usual, common deaths on the build video I posted just a week ago:
https://youtu.be/axkpih8ehw4?t=4m31s
I chase a kill too hard and overstay my welcome, get focused by the entire green team. Also dodge roll in the wrong direction after gap closer leaves me exposed to DBOS. 100% my fault enemy team gets a kill there.
https://youtu.be/axkpih8ehw4?t=6m47s
Stunned by... something mid dodge roll & missing 400 stam from being able to CC break. Better resource management & positioning would've saved me. Mostly my fault again.
I'm fine with dying when I play bad & enemies play better - that's just how games usually work.
What I'm not fine with is dying despite doing everything correctly, which only really happens with Rune Cage at the moment.
There is no other combination that would guaranteed kill me without a way I could've avoided it (yes, that includes snipes).
You asked what the problem is. The problem is Rune Cage guaranteeing huge burst damage with no skill required from user & removing options of counterplay apart from "change your fun, enjoyable build to a boring tank build".
Same logic applies to Sorcs. If they mess up, they die. Simple as that. And every class dies to NBs even if they have 'done everything right'. You should admit that the low health is your problem. Not Rune Cage combo.
No, they don't.
If you keep your shields up, you'll never die to stealth burst, and everything else from NB is dodgeable/blockable (well, even burst from stealth is but let's ignore that for now). That means if you don't make mistakes... you live, even if you had 10k health.
Likewise, on a stamina build low health is a problem only when there's high burst you can't dodge/block/outrange, everything else falls in the "l2p" category. At the moment only one such source of burst exists: Rune Cage.
Think of health as a "difficulty slider".
Yes, the moment they don't do everything correctly, which is them being caught without shield, they die. How is this not the case then? Sorc is not some living gods that walk in Cyrodiil. They can be quite strong but not that much strong when you are spec'd defensively. We can talk about it not being the case if Sorc had autocast shield with 30k strength at 0 costs. And I have never seen a single Sorc that keeps the shield up while traversing or when NB hasn't appeared out of Cloak for a good while. Sorcs do and will die. I also have never seen a single person holding block up while moving in Cyrodiil either. And these people will also die without a chance to react. Stamblade answers to these problems always have been "slot more health" and so why shouldn't you?Edited by IZZEFlameLash on June 29, 2018 8:29AMImperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
I think if you die to the first opening part of the combo at that range, you have a lot more problem than a Sorc atm. Your build runs low health, I mean, what do you expect to happen? And your build in itself capitalizes on the range with your high damage Snipe. So... what's the problem here? Most Snipes are not audible unless you are in a very quiet environment. Cuz thanks ZOS.
I have a lot of other problems if I screw up. I mean, you can see multiple of my usual, common deaths on the build video I posted just a week ago:
https://youtu.be/axkpih8ehw4?t=4m31s
I chase a kill too hard and overstay my welcome, get focused by the entire green team. Also dodge roll in the wrong direction after gap closer leaves me exposed to DBOS. 100% my fault enemy team gets a kill there.
https://youtu.be/axkpih8ehw4?t=6m47s
Stunned by... something mid dodge roll & missing 400 stam from being able to CC break. Better resource management & positioning would've saved me. Mostly my fault again.
I'm fine with dying when I play bad & enemies play better - that's just how games usually work.
What I'm not fine with is dying despite doing everything correctly, which only really happens with Rune Cage at the moment.
There is no other combination that would guaranteed kill me without a way I could've avoided it (yes, that includes snipes).
You asked what the problem is. The problem is Rune Cage guaranteeing huge burst damage with no skill required from user & removing options of counterplay apart from "change your fun, enjoyable build to a boring tank build".
Same logic applies to Sorcs. If they mess up, they die. Simple as that. And every class dies to NBs even if they have 'done everything right'. You should admit that the low health is your problem. Not Rune Cage combo.
No, they don't.
If you keep your shields up, you'll never die to stealth burst, and everything else from NB is dodgeable/blockable (well, even burst from stealth is but let's ignore that for now). That means if you don't make mistakes... you live, even if you had 10k health.
Likewise, on a stamina build low health is a problem only when there's high burst you can't dodge/block/outrange, everything else falls in the "l2p" category. At the moment only one such source of burst exists: Rune Cage.
Think of health as a "difficulty slider".
Yes, the moment they don't do everything correctly, which is them being caught without shield, they die. How is this not the case then? Sorc is not some living gods that walk in Cyrodiil. They can be quite strong but not that much strong when you are spec'd defensively. We can talk about it not being the case if Sorc had autocast shield with 30k strength at 0 costs. And I have never seen a single Sorc that keeps the shield up while traversing or when NB hasn't appeared out of Cloak for a good while. Sorcs do and will die. I also have never seen a single person holding block up while moving in Cyrodiil either. And these people will also die without a chance to react. Stamblade answers to these problems always have been "slot more health" and so why shouldn't you?
I keep buffs up 24/7 whenever I can expect combat, no matter which class I play.
Capping a resource? Yeah, that Vigor is gonna stay up 24/7, same as Shuffle/Acceleration. Or shields if I play any of my magicka builds.
If I'm traveling between keeps and the combat music starts playing I know I'm about to get ganked & a simple dodge roll or block fixes that issue, unless it's an overload ganker that can just Rune Cage me & prevent that.
...and even if you do die to a ganker (entirely your own fault unless Rune Caged to prevent dodge/block) you can run/ride back with the knowledge there is a ganker, keep shields up/dodge roll/sneak, pop a det pot (and/or bait an attack) & get your revenge.
Bottom line is, there's always a chance to react or play proactively to avoid dying, unless we're talking about Rune Cage which removes that chance to react (while also dealing 4-5k damage by itself).
And no, "slot more health" hasn't been the "answer" (or even necessary/optimal) for medium stam builds, that's the answer for tank builds that don't dodge roll much at all. Yeah, the ones running bleeds & sloads and an entirely different (boring af) playstyle.Edited by DDuke on June 29, 2018 10:06AM1 -
ChildOfLight✭✭✭I think you guys and this community have the Pvp balance you deserve.
Neglecting the fact some classes perform outrageously better than others and white-knight defending your main class when some balance changes are suggested led to a clear ill pvp state.
Now what? You wonder why this game became an utterly ridiculous clone of Call Of Duty,
where everyone just ranged pew pew?
I mean, look at the meeting note of the class reps. Eg
MagDk fills 4/5 of the entire space dedicated to the Dk. Stam dk almost does not exist.
Lack of mobility listed in the pain points of sorcerors. LACK OF MOBILITY.
Will you ever stop to ask for buffs to your already strong classes?
When ?
When everyone will just play the same exact character or when everyone will sail to more pvp-wise balanced places?Edited by ChildOfLight on June 29, 2018 10:31AMPC EU
Ross Campano - Imperial Dragonknight - Tanks and steals stuff from barrels5 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Saw DDuke's video...
Really, dude? A double bow build with 18k health (in Cyro) and you complain about being killed by a meta sorc build?
This game isn't "play however you like" like Skyrim was. Your setup is known to be inferior to the meta builds and you should honestly die to every one of them, every time.
This is nothing personal, promise, but I will from now on just ignore your feedback until you give it under reasonable conditions, as like, long experience with actually competitive builds in a competitive environment.2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Saw DDuke's video...
Really, dude? A double bow build with 18k health (in Cyro) and you complain about being killed by a meta sorc build?
This game isn't "play however you like" like Skyrim was. Your setup is known to be inferior to the meta builds and you should honestly die to every one of them, every time.
This is nothing personal, promise, but I will from now on just ignore your feedback until you give it under reasonable conditions, as like, long experience with actually competitive builds in a competitive environment.
That's cute.
First off, every (MMO)RPG I've played has featured "rogue" and "ranger" style characters and even ESO offers these playstyles (that's why Bow and Dual Wield weapon skill lines exist).
Whatever happens to be the "meta" has very little significance on what can be expected to be (or is) playable/efficient.
Secondly, until you find another medium armor build that gets more kills in shorter amount of time in open world or ranks #1 in pretty much every BG game I suggest you keep your ad hominems to yourself as they do not contribute to the discussion at hand and quite frankly don't make you sound very smart.
"Meta" is what people find the easiest to play, widely accessible playstyles. These are builds/playstyles so easy that even the Lord-Ottos of the world can play them and maybe get a kill once in a while.
But the easiest playstyles aren't always the most efficient ones.
In fact, when it comes to medium armor builds one reason why stealth/burst oriented builds are more effective right now is that they spend more time in stealth, unable to get Rune Caged (unlike their rollerblade cousins).Edited by DDuke on June 29, 2018 11:29AM5 -
BNOC✭✭✭✭✭datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Mag templars. Minor mending and can purify dot builds and eliminates majority of negative affect on oneself, can stack power of light and DB then jab jab jab, it nearly kills all classes..The majority of stam builds have Dawnbreaker where they pop that and then execute and people die yet mag sorcs have to lay 6 or 7 things down to kill someone while having to have those shields on constantly..How is that easy?
Been playing a magplar for years, a lot of experience in BGs. I do pretty well.
That being said, I've never had an easier time getting kills than as a magsorc, and I have like zero experience with them.
With magplar you have to deal with dropping ritual, focus, then at least two damage buffs (or a spell pot) plus purifying light before you can even engage effectively. Don't talk to me about tedious. I don't even run potions on my magsorc. My last 2 winning games were like 25 kills each. Maybe I can't put a finger on it, but I can tell you that in terms of easy mode, they're worlds apart.
Magplar since about a week in from console release - Made a sorc day one and played for a week.
Bare in mind that I'm getting 15+ kills, average on my Templar and finishing top on damage most games I play in BG's.
I geared up that sorc for the first time last week and I've not been off of it since. Don't get me wrong, I've had 40+ kill games on my Templar but on my 2 day old sorc - That I'm still learning to play, I'm getting 40's on the regular, without any issue - Doing what feels like a lot less and having to keep track of a lot less in general.
I'm a Temp and will remain one, but sorc is stupid easy.
Admittedly though, fighting sorcs isn't much of an issue for me, but I can cleanse everything.
I disagree with you saying Xbox players aren’t as familiar with the game as PC players.. When I watch PC PvP vids it’s cringy bad. Some of the fights almost look staged for a montage. But this is 100% subjective and a topic for another thread. The builds I was mentioning are for CP. Sorcs dominate BG’s as everyone knows. If getting 45+ kills with any regularity in BG’s isn’t a sign that something needs changed then I don’t know what else to say. When someone can not play Sorc for over a year, load into BG’s, and go 29-2, questions need to be asked.You can go 3 willpower and domihaus, lich/spinners. I would agree XBOX players are prolly not familiar with the game as PC players. The thing is the amount of killing a Sorc can do in BG's is directly related to resource management. When your spinner sorc fiends are getting 45+ kills on land grab boards let me know. I've ran that exact setup for about a year and I find the shackles to be better for my play style, more up time using dark conversion.
I feel the same way about PC PVP that I see, I believe it's because the Xbox community is so diluted to a point where (excluding the 4000 level 8's due to the game being free) all that's left is long-term players who you expect to have some knowledge of the game.
I watch guys on PC do serious 1vX's against max CP's (Mostly chanelling HA or trying to res, over and over), not level 40's like Xbox 1vX's - Whch I attribute to that above statement.
It seems like a lot of older generations are playing on PC, who in my experience are much worse and less interested in competing than the teenagers and young adults on console.
As a comment to bard86 - I've played sorc for less than a week now, my 2nd ever BG on it I had 36 kills and I'm regularly dropping 30-40+ now - And I'm weak on sorc, I let my shields drop, I cast abilities unintentionally whilst trying to cleanse etc (Muscle memory from temp main) and haven't got the sustain down, but it doesn't matter - I'm running spinners & shackle with Domi + a reco helmet too.
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Saw DDuke's video...
Really, dude? A double bow build with 18k health (in Cyro) and you complain about being killed by a meta sorc build?
This game isn't "play however you like" like Skyrim was. Your setup is known to be inferior to the meta builds and you should honestly die to every one of them, every time.
This is nothing personal, promise, but I will from now on just ignore your feedback until you give it under reasonable conditions, as like, long experience with actually competitive builds in a competitive environment.
That's cute.
First off, every (MMO)RPG I've played has featured "rogue" and "ranger" style characters and even ESO offers these playstyles (that's why Bow and Dual Wield weapon skill lines exist).
Whatever happens to be the "meta" has very little significance on what can be expected to be (or is) playable/efficient.
Secondly, until you find another medium armor build that gets more kills in shorter amount of time in open world or ranks #1 in pretty much every BG game I suggest you keep your ad hominems to yourself as they do not contribute to the discussion at hand and quite frankly don't make you sound very smart.
"Meta" is what people find the easiest to play, widely accessible playstyles. These are builds/playstyles so easy that even the Lord-Ottos of the world can play them and maybe get a kill once in a while.
But the easiest playstyles aren't always the most efficient ones.
In fact, when it comes to medium armor builds one reason why stealth/burst oriented builds are more effective right now is that they spend more time in stealth, unable to get Rune Caged (unlike their rollerblade cousins).
But you're complaining you get killed so easily by the meta sorc. What does that make you?
No, you're living in your own little bubble and demand the game to be something it isn't. If you're struggling now, it's because NBs have been so powerful until Summerset that even you could get carried by the class.
And now you're getting personal and insulting because you've run out of crutches and excuses. Hah! The entertainment show you're delivering almost makes up for the wasted time trying to have a discussion with you!1 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Mag templars. Minor mending and can purify dot builds and eliminates majority of negative affect on oneself, can stack power of light and DB then jab jab jab, it nearly kills all classes..The majority of stam builds have Dawnbreaker where they pop that and then execute and people die yet mag sorcs have to lay 6 or 7 things down to kill someone while having to have those shields on constantly..How is that easy?
Been playing a magplar for years, a lot of experience in BGs. I do pretty well.
That being said, I've never had an easier time getting kills than as a magsorc, and I have like zero experience with them.
With magplar you have to deal with dropping ritual, focus, then at least two damage buffs (or a spell pot) plus purifying light before you can even engage effectively. Don't talk to me about tedious. I don't even run potions on my magsorc. My last 2 winning games were like 25 kills each. Maybe I can't put a finger on it, but I can tell you that in terms of easy mode, they're worlds apart.
Magplar since about a week in from console release - Made a sorc day one and played for a week.
Bare in mind that I'm getting 15+ kills, average on my Templar and finishing top on damage most games I play in BG's.
I geared up that sorc for the first time last week and I've not been off of it since. Don't get me wrong, I've had 40+ kill games on my Templar but on my 2 day old sorc - That I'm still learning to play, I'm getting 40's on the regular, without any issue - Doing what feels like a lot less and having to keep track of a lot less in general.
I'm a Temp and will remain one, but sorc is stupid easy.
Admittedly though, fighting sorcs isn't much of an issue for me, but I can cleanse everything.
I disagree with you saying Xbox players aren’t as familiar with the game as PC players.. When I watch PC PvP vids it’s cringy bad. Some of the fights almost look staged for a montage. But this is 100% subjective and a topic for another thread. The builds I was mentioning are for CP. Sorcs dominate BG’s as everyone knows. If getting 45+ kills with any regularity in BG’s isn’t a sign that something needs changed then I don’t know what else to say. When someone can not play Sorc for over a year, load into BG’s, and go 29-2, questions need to be asked.You can go 3 willpower and domihaus, lich/spinners. I would agree XBOX players are prolly not familiar with the game as PC players. The thing is the amount of killing a Sorc can do in BG's is directly related to resource management. When your spinner sorc fiends are getting 45+ kills on land grab boards let me know. I've ran that exact setup for about a year and I find the shackles to be better for my play style, more up time using dark conversion.
I feel the same way about PC PVP that I see, I believe it's because the Xbox community is so diluted to a point where (excluding the 4000 level 8's due to the game being free) all that's left is long-term players who you expect to have some knowledge of the game.
I watch guys on PC do serious 1vX's against max CP's (Mostly chanelling HA or trying to res, over and over), not level 40's like Xbox 1vX's - Whch I attribute to that above statement.
It seems like a lot of older generations are playing on PC, who in my experience are much worse and less interested in competing than the teenagers and young adults on console.
As a comment to bard86 - I've played sorc for less than a week now, my 2nd ever BG on it I had 36 kills and I'm regularly dropping 30-40+ now - And I'm weak on sorc, I let my shields drop, I cast abilities unintentionally whilst trying to cleanse etc (Muscle memory from temp main) and haven't got the sustain down, but it doesn't matter - I'm running spinners & shackle with Domi + a reco helmet too.
Serious question here... have you done a damage comparison with the other members of the group you are in? I'm pretty sure almost everyone knows because of bad coding by zos that sorcs can rack up an insane amount of kills because of wrath/fury. That's on Zos not sorc players. If sorcs had an insane amount of kills and damage done... like damage substantially higher than other specs, that would be a problem that would need to be addressed. You can't say that's the case solely on kill count alone.Edited by usmguy1234 on June 29, 2018 12:47PMZaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Saw DDuke's video...
Really, dude? A double bow build with 18k health (in Cyro) and you complain about being killed by a meta sorc build?
This game isn't "play however you like" like Skyrim was. Your setup is known to be inferior to the meta builds and you should honestly die to every one of them, every time.
This is nothing personal, promise, but I will from now on just ignore your feedback until you give it under reasonable conditions, as like, long experience with actually competitive builds in a competitive environment.
That's cute.
First off, every (MMO)RPG I've played has featured "rogue" and "ranger" style characters and even ESO offers these playstyles (that's why Bow and Dual Wield weapon skill lines exist).
Whatever happens to be the "meta" has very little significance on what can be expected to be (or is) playable/efficient.
Secondly, until you find another medium armor build that gets more kills in shorter amount of time in open world or ranks #1 in pretty much every BG game I suggest you keep your ad hominems to yourself as they do not contribute to the discussion at hand and quite frankly don't make you sound very smart.
"Meta" is what people find the easiest to play, widely accessible playstyles. These are builds/playstyles so easy that even the Lord-Ottos of the world can play them and maybe get a kill once in a while.
But the easiest playstyles aren't always the most efficient ones.
In fact, when it comes to medium armor builds one reason why stealth/burst oriented builds are more effective right now is that they spend more time in stealth, unable to get Rune Caged (unlike their rollerblade cousins).
But you're complaining you get killed so easily by the meta sorc. What does that make you?
I don't know, a medium armor player?
You think an undodgeable/blockable/reflectable CC with 36m range & 8-10k tooltip is balanced and no one should complain about it.
What does that make you? I'm going to be polite and not answer that for you.No, you're living in your own little bubble and demand the game to be something it isn't. If you're struggling now, it's because NBs have been so powerful until Summerset that even you could get carried by the class.
I'm the one in a bubble? You're here talking as if the game is perfect and no one should demand it changes for the better.
You must be devastated every time a patch rolls in and actually changes something.
Also I've been playing NB (and making it work) since before stamina versions of Incap & Surprise Attack even existed, when the game was mockingly called "Elder Staves Online" and the few stam builds ran around using Flying Blade as spammable. Hardly something one would call powerful.
Try again.And now you're getting personal and insulting because you've run out of crutches and excuses. Hah! The entertainment show you're delivering almost makes up for the wasted time trying to have a discussion with you!
Crutches... like Rune Cage?
Good talk.Edited by DDuke on June 29, 2018 12:50PM8 -
BNOC✭✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Mag templars. Minor mending and can purify dot builds and eliminates majority of negative affect on oneself, can stack power of light and DB then jab jab jab, it nearly kills all classes..The majority of stam builds have Dawnbreaker where they pop that and then execute and people die yet mag sorcs have to lay 6 or 7 things down to kill someone while having to have those shields on constantly..How is that easy?
Been playing a magplar for years, a lot of experience in BGs. I do pretty well.
That being said, I've never had an easier time getting kills than as a magsorc, and I have like zero experience with them.
With magplar you have to deal with dropping ritual, focus, then at least two damage buffs (or a spell pot) plus purifying light before you can even engage effectively. Don't talk to me about tedious. I don't even run potions on my magsorc. My last 2 winning games were like 25 kills each. Maybe I can't put a finger on it, but I can tell you that in terms of easy mode, they're worlds apart.
Magplar since about a week in from console release - Made a sorc day one and played for a week.
Bare in mind that I'm getting 15+ kills, average on my Templar and finishing top on damage most games I play in BG's.
I geared up that sorc for the first time last week and I've not been off of it since. Don't get me wrong, I've had 40+ kill games on my Templar but on my 2 day old sorc - That I'm still learning to play, I'm getting 40's on the regular, without any issue - Doing what feels like a lot less and having to keep track of a lot less in general.
I'm a Temp and will remain one, but sorc is stupid easy.
Admittedly though, fighting sorcs isn't much of an issue for me, but I can cleanse everything.
I disagree with you saying Xbox players aren’t as familiar with the game as PC players.. When I watch PC PvP vids it’s cringy bad. Some of the fights almost look staged for a montage. But this is 100% subjective and a topic for another thread. The builds I was mentioning are for CP. Sorcs dominate BG’s as everyone knows. If getting 45+ kills with any regularity in BG’s isn’t a sign that something needs changed then I don’t know what else to say. When someone can not play Sorc for over a year, load into BG’s, and go 29-2, questions need to be asked.You can go 3 willpower and domihaus, lich/spinners. I would agree XBOX players are prolly not familiar with the game as PC players. The thing is the amount of killing a Sorc can do in BG's is directly related to resource management. When your spinner sorc fiends are getting 45+ kills on land grab boards let me know. I've ran that exact setup for about a year and I find the shackles to be better for my play style, more up time using dark conversion.
I feel the same way about PC PVP that I see, I believe it's because the Xbox community is so diluted to a point where (excluding the 4000 level 8's due to the game being free) all that's left is long-term players who you expect to have some knowledge of the game.
I watch guys on PC do serious 1vX's against max CP's (Mostly chanelling HA or trying to res, over and over), not level 40's like Xbox 1vX's - Whch I attribute to that above statement.
It seems like a lot of older generations are playing on PC, who in my experience are much worse and less interested in competing than the teenagers and young adults on console.
As a comment to bard86 - I've played sorc for less than a week now, my 2nd ever BG on it I had 36 kills and I'm regularly dropping 30-40+ now - And I'm weak on sorc, I let my shields drop, I cast abilities unintentionally whilst trying to cleanse etc (Muscle memory from temp main) and haven't got the sustain down, but it doesn't matter - I'm running spinners & shackle with Domi + a reco helmet too.
Serious question here... have you done a damage comparison with the other members of the group you are in? I'm pretty sure almost everyone knows because of bad coding by zos that sorcs can rack up an insane amount of kills because of wrath/fury. That's on Zos not sorc players. If sorcs had an insane amount of kills and damage done... like damage substantially higher than other specs, that would be a problem that would need to be addressed. You can say that's the case solely on kill count alone.
No you're right, Im noticing that I'm doing overall less damage than my Temp and I am definitely getting kills with wrath.
I am however noticing that I am still significantly out damaging people - Often 1.5-2x the closest player - Obviously not always but enough - This stands true with my templar as well so it's probably everyone else being a bit bad, but still - My templars spammable is AOE, so it kinda makes sense why, at least on that.
I can have 1-1.5M damage on my Temp and have 15 kills, on my sorc I can have 40 on 900k damage.
I put it down to the burst potential and strength of abilities, I'm literally ripping people from full health to 0 with ease, where as on my Templar (Axiom/WM/Skoria, so not some soggy build) it's a bit more of a back and forth sometimes and the combo generally takes longer to pull off.
TTK is very quick on sorc so I expect to see less damage overall as people simply don't have a chance to heal and push my meters up.Edited by BNOC on June 29, 2018 1:01PMvMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)4 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭usmguy1234 wrote: »datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Mag templars. Minor mending and can purify dot builds and eliminates majority of negative affect on oneself, can stack power of light and DB then jab jab jab, it nearly kills all classes..The majority of stam builds have Dawnbreaker where they pop that and then execute and people die yet mag sorcs have to lay 6 or 7 things down to kill someone while having to have those shields on constantly..How is that easy?
Been playing a magplar for years, a lot of experience in BGs. I do pretty well.
That being said, I've never had an easier time getting kills than as a magsorc, and I have like zero experience with them.
With magplar you have to deal with dropping ritual, focus, then at least two damage buffs (or a spell pot) plus purifying light before you can even engage effectively. Don't talk to me about tedious. I don't even run potions on my magsorc. My last 2 winning games were like 25 kills each. Maybe I can't put a finger on it, but I can tell you that in terms of easy mode, they're worlds apart.
Magplar since about a week in from console release - Made a sorc day one and played for a week.
Bare in mind that I'm getting 15+ kills, average on my Templar and finishing top on damage most games I play in BG's.
I geared up that sorc for the first time last week and I've not been off of it since. Don't get me wrong, I've had 40+ kill games on my Templar but on my 2 day old sorc - That I'm still learning to play, I'm getting 40's on the regular, without any issue - Doing what feels like a lot less and having to keep track of a lot less in general.
I'm a Temp and will remain one, but sorc is stupid easy.
Admittedly though, fighting sorcs isn't much of an issue for me, but I can cleanse everything.
I disagree with you saying Xbox players aren’t as familiar with the game as PC players.. When I watch PC PvP vids it’s cringy bad. Some of the fights almost look staged for a montage. But this is 100% subjective and a topic for another thread. The builds I was mentioning are for CP. Sorcs dominate BG’s as everyone knows. If getting 45+ kills with any regularity in BG’s isn’t a sign that something needs changed then I don’t know what else to say. When someone can not play Sorc for over a year, load into BG’s, and go 29-2, questions need to be asked.You can go 3 willpower and domihaus, lich/spinners. I would agree XBOX players are prolly not familiar with the game as PC players. The thing is the amount of killing a Sorc can do in BG's is directly related to resource management. When your spinner sorc fiends are getting 45+ kills on land grab boards let me know. I've ran that exact setup for about a year and I find the shackles to be better for my play style, more up time using dark conversion.
I feel the same way about PC PVP that I see, I believe it's because the Xbox community is so diluted to a point where (excluding the 4000 level 8's due to the game being free) all that's left is long-term players who you expect to have some knowledge of the game.
I watch guys on PC do serious 1vX's against max CP's (Mostly chanelling HA or trying to res, over and over), not level 40's like Xbox 1vX's - Whch I attribute to that above statement.
It seems like a lot of older generations are playing on PC, who in my experience are much worse and less interested in competing than the teenagers and young adults on console.
As a comment to bard86 - I've played sorc for less than a week now, my 2nd ever BG on it I had 36 kills and I'm regularly dropping 30-40+ now - And I'm weak on sorc, I let my shields drop, I cast abilities unintentionally whilst trying to cleanse etc (Muscle memory from temp main) and haven't got the sustain down, but it doesn't matter - I'm running spinners & shackle with Domi + a reco helmet too.
Serious question here... have you done a damage comparison with the other members of the group you are in? I'm pretty sure almost everyone knows because of bad coding by zos that sorcs can rack up an insane amount of kills because of wrath/fury. That's on Zos not sorc players. If sorcs had an insane amount of kills and damage done... like damage substantially higher than other specs, that would be a problem that would need to be addressed. You can say that's the case solely on kill count alone.
No you're right, Im noticing that I'm doing overall less damage than my Temp and I am definitely getting kills with wrath.
I am however noticing that I am still significantly out damaging people - Often 1.5-2x the closest player - Obviously not always but enough - This stands true with my templar as well so it's probably everyone else being a bit bad, but still - My templars spammable is AOE, so it kinda makes sense why, at least on that.
I can have 1-1.5M damage on my Temp and have 15 kills, on my sorc I can have 40 on 900k damage.
I put it down to the burst potential and strength of abilities, I'm literally ripping people from full health to 0 with ease, where as on my Templar (Axiom/WM/Skoria, so not some soggy build) it's a bit more of a back and forth sometimes and the combo generally takes longer to pull off.
TTK is very quick on sorc so I expect to see less damage overall as people simply don't have a chance to heal and push my meters up.
It's basically the efficient effective paradigm. When you put a efficient class in an effective players hands you are going to have a monster. Or if you put an effective class in an efficient players hands you are going to have a monster. I believe most of the classes fall pretty evenly in to one of those categories... however player skill is not so black and white hence the resentment.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
King_Thelon✭✭✭✭✭That feeling when your a NB that crutches on stealth for 3 years, but calls Rune Cage a crutch after less than 3 months.4
-
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭King_Thelon wrote: »That feeling when your a NB that crutches on stealth for 3 years, but calls Rune Cage a crutch after less than 3 months.
Not mention that buzz they must feel when they say Rune Cage is "hard to break out of" while they've had Fear for 3 years.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE9 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Saw DDuke's video...
Really, dude? A double bow build with 18k health (in Cyro) and you complain about being killed by a meta sorc build?
This game isn't "play however you like" like Skyrim was. Your setup is known to be inferior to the meta builds and you should honestly die to every one of them, every time.
This is nothing personal, promise, but I will from now on just ignore your feedback until you give it under reasonable conditions, as like, long experience with actually competitive builds in a competitive environment.
Lol playing bow/bow is probably one of the most challenging things you can do in pvp. I never had the courage to even try it because it allows for 0 margin of error.
The argument against it is a symptom of not comprehending that the only effective way of playing that play style is to glass cannon it. It's wholly ineffective if you try and build sustain or survive as bow abilities don't really hit hard and cost a whole lot of resources.
Most bow centric nightblade builds have to run 0 health and little sustain because otherwise you can't kill anyone with a pulse otherwise. That's not so with magicka sorcs that can run a good survival and good sustain build and rack up kills.3 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »Saw DDuke's video...
Really, dude? A double bow build with 18k health (in Cyro) and you complain about being killed by a meta sorc build?
This game isn't "play however you like" like Skyrim was. Your setup is known to be inferior to the meta builds and you should honestly die to every one of them, every time.
This is nothing personal, promise, but I will from now on just ignore your feedback until you give it under reasonable conditions, as like, long experience with actually competitive builds in a competitive environment.
Lol playing bow/bow is probably one of the most challenging things you can do in pvp. I never had the courage to even try it because it allows for 0 margin of error.
The argument against it is a symptom of not comprehending that the only effective way of playing that play style is to glass cannon it. It's wholly ineffective if you try and build sustain or survive as bow abilities don't really hit hard and cost a whole lot of resources.
Most bow centric nightblade builds have to run 0 health and little sustain because otherwise you can't kill anyone with a pulse otherwise. That's not so with magicka sorcs that can run a good survival and good sustain build and rack up kills.
I ran a bow gank build on my orcplar. It's not hard and that's coming from someone who ran one with a non meta gank class. I just knew and accepted if I didn't successfully gank them, my ass was going to be lit on fire.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.1 -
Bergzorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭ChildOfLight wrote: »I think you guys and this community have the Pvp balance you deserve.
That's harsh.
no CP PvP PC/EU
EP Zergborn
DC Zerg Beacon
guild master, raid leader, janitor, and only member of Zergbored0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ChildOfLight wrote: »I think you guys and this community have the Pvp balance you deserve.
That's harsh.
He's not wrong. I have a very low opinion of this game's community. If I gave my honest opinion I would probably get banned for it.Edited by Strider__Roshin on June 29, 2018 5:40PM2 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »Saw DDuke's video...
Really, dude? A double bow build with 18k health (in Cyro) and you complain about being killed by a meta sorc build?
This game isn't "play however you like" like Skyrim was. Your setup is known to be inferior to the meta builds and you should honestly die to every one of them, every time.
This is nothing personal, promise, but I will from now on just ignore your feedback until you give it under reasonable conditions, as like, long experience with actually competitive builds in a competitive environment.
Lol playing bow/bow is probably one of the most challenging things you can do in pvp. I never had the courage to even try it because it allows for 0 margin of error.
The argument against it is a symptom of not comprehending that the only effective way of playing that play style is to glass cannon it. It's wholly ineffective if you try and build sustain or survive as bow abilities don't really hit hard and cost a whole lot of resources.
Most bow centric nightblade builds have to run 0 health and little sustain because otherwise you can't kill anyone with a pulse otherwise. That's not so with magicka sorcs that can run a good survival and good sustain build and rack up kills.
I ran a bow gank build on my orcplar. It's not hard and that's coming from someone who ran one with a non meta gank class. I just knew and accepted if I didn't successfully gank them, my ass was going to be lit on fire.
It really depends on definitions of hard and challenging.
Any Bow-centric build is capable of flat out bursting a target that's mounted or not paying attention or otherwise occupied down.
The reason for me saying it's one of the most challenging is when it's not a situation where you can tee off on a target that can't realistically fight back your chances of winning are terrible.
I get why people don't like the bow gank playstyle, trust me I do. No one in the right mind wants to be put in a position where they get killed with little to no chance at counterplay.
Now to move this thread back on topic... Rune cage has allowed for an even more insidious form of "no counterplay" to exist, but with much less risk than the glass cannon bowgank style EVER has had.
I don't know if this thread or another, but @OdinForge summed up the issue conclusively. Keep in mind that me and he hate each other's guts and I'm saying that.Read me
1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ChildOfLight wrote: »I think you guys and this community have the Pvp balance you deserve.
That's harsh.
He's not wrong. I have a very low opinion of this game's community. If I gave my honest opinion I would probably get banned for it.
We agree on something, my opinion couldn’t possibly be lower.1 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »Saw DDuke's video...
Really, dude? A double bow build with 18k health (in Cyro) and you complain about being killed by a meta sorc build?
This game isn't "play however you like" like Skyrim was. Your setup is known to be inferior to the meta builds and you should honestly die to every one of them, every time.
This is nothing personal, promise, but I will from now on just ignore your feedback until you give it under reasonable conditions, as like, long experience with actually competitive builds in a competitive environment.
Lol playing bow/bow is probably one of the most challenging things you can do in pvp. I never had the courage to even try it because it allows for 0 margin of error.
The argument against it is a symptom of not comprehending that the only effective way of playing that play style is to glass cannon it. It's wholly ineffective if you try and build sustain or survive as bow abilities don't really hit hard and cost a whole lot of resources.
Most bow centric nightblade builds have to run 0 health and little sustain because otherwise you can't kill anyone with a pulse otherwise. That's not so with magicka sorcs that can run a good survival and good sustain build and rack up kills.
I ran a bow gank build on my orcplar. It's not hard and that's coming from someone who ran one with a non meta gank class. I just knew and accepted if I didn't successfully gank them, my ass was going to be lit on fire.
It really depends on definitions of hard and challenging.
Any Bow-centric build is capable of flat out bursting a target that's mounted or not paying attention or otherwise occupied down.
The reason for me saying it's one of the most challenging is when it's not a situation where you can tee off on a target that can't realistically fight back your chances of winning are terrible.
I get why people don't like the bow gank playstyle, trust me I do. No one in the right mind wants to be put in a position where they get killed with little to no chance at counterplay.
Now to move this thread back on topic... Rune cage has allowed for an even more insidious form of "no counterplay" to exist, but with much less risk than the glass cannon bowgank style EVER has had.
I don't know if this thread or another, but @OdinForge summed up the issue conclusively. Keep in mind that me and he hate each other's guts and I'm saying that.Read me
Less risk? The last time I checked sorcs cannot vanish in to thin air. I'm not sure I follow. Let's be real here, the only thing a gank blade has ever risked is getting caught with his/ her hand in the cookie jar...ie being greedy and trying to force a kill.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.3 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
I think if you die to the first opening part of the combo at that range, you have a lot more problem than a Sorc atm. Your build runs low health, I mean, what do you expect to happen? And your build in itself capitalizes on the range with your high damage Snipe. So... what's the problem here? Most Snipes are not audible unless you are in a very quiet environment. Cuz thanks ZOS.
I have a lot of other problems if I screw up. I mean, you can see multiple of my usual, common deaths on the build video I posted just a week ago:
https://youtu.be/axkpih8ehw4?t=4m31s
I chase a kill too hard and overstay my welcome, get focused by the entire green team. Also dodge roll in the wrong direction after gap closer leaves me exposed to DBOS. 100% my fault enemy team gets a kill there.
https://youtu.be/axkpih8ehw4?t=6m47s
Stunned by... something mid dodge roll & missing 400 stam from being able to CC break. Better resource management & positioning would've saved me. Mostly my fault again.
I'm fine with dying when I play bad & enemies play better - that's just how games usually work.
What I'm not fine with is dying despite doing everything correctly, which only really happens with Rune Cage at the moment.
There is no other combination that would guaranteed kill me without a way I could've avoided it (yes, that includes snipes).
You asked what the problem is. The problem is Rune Cage guaranteeing huge burst damage with no skill required from user & removing options of counterplay apart from "change your fun, enjoyable build to a boring tank build".
Same logic applies to Sorcs. If they mess up, they die. Simple as that. And every class dies to NBs even if they have 'done everything right'. You should admit that the low health is your problem. Not Rune Cage combo.
No, they don't.
If you keep your shields up, you'll never die to stealth burst, and everything else from NB is dodgeable/blockable (well, even burst from stealth is but let's ignore that for now). That means if you don't make mistakes... you live, even if you had 10k health.
Likewise, on a stamina build low health is a problem only when there's high burst you can't dodge/block/outrange, everything else falls in the "l2p" category. At the moment only one such source of burst exists: Rune Cage.
Think of health as a "difficulty slider".
Yes, the moment they don't do everything correctly, which is them being caught without shield, they die. How is this not the case then? Sorc is not some living gods that walk in Cyrodiil. They can be quite strong but not that much strong when you are spec'd defensively. We can talk about it not being the case if Sorc had autocast shield with 30k strength at 0 costs. And I have never seen a single Sorc that keeps the shield up while traversing or when NB hasn't appeared out of Cloak for a good while. Sorcs do and will die. I also have never seen a single person holding block up while moving in Cyrodiil either. And these people will also die without a chance to react. Stamblade answers to these problems always have been "slot more health" and so why shouldn't you?
I keep buffs up 24/7 whenever I can expect combat, no matter which class I play.
Capping a resource? Yeah, that Vigor is gonna stay up 24/7, same as Shuffle/Acceleration. Or shields if I play any of my magicka builds.
If I'm traveling between keeps and the combat music starts playing I know I'm about to get ganked & a simple dodge roll or block fixes that issue, unless it's an overload ganker that can just Rune Cage me & prevent that.
...and even if you do die to a ganker (entirely your own fault unless Rune Caged to prevent dodge/block) you can run/ride back with the knowledge there is a ganker, keep shields up/dodge roll/sneak, pop a det pot (and/or bait an attack) & get your revenge.
Bottom line is, there's always a chance to react or play proactively to avoid dying, unless we're talking about Rune Cage which removes that chance to react (while also dealing 4-5k damage by itself).
And no, "slot more health" hasn't been the "answer" (or even necessary/optimal) for medium stam builds, that's the answer for tank builds that don't dodge roll much at all. Yeah, the ones running bleeds & sloads and an entirely different (boring af) playstyle.
So does the Sorcs you complain about have to keep up their buffs, which is shields. Slot more health also is an option. I did not know the game greyed out when the user tried to enchant Medium Armor with Prismatic Defense glyphs. Or that the game forbid you from running Triune or even move some attributes to health. You run 18k health, what did you expect to happen? Even a breeze will kill you in that health and yet you keep insisting it is Rune Cage that is the problem, not your builds.
If you died to Rune Cage combo at 25k health and up in an instant the Meteor dropped, you might have a case but you flat out don't. You are running a gank build. And gank builds die when they get engaged by people who slot CCs. Sure, you can even giftwrap your build as glass cannon build. Even then, you really shouldn't complain about the Rune Cage because your health is so low.
You really need to get out of that old NB instagib everyone meta mindset. Good NB players are not having as much problem with Rune Cage as you it seems. I don't know... maybe it has to do with the fact that they run more health? In Cyrodiil, near 25k health was almost always mandatory. And you know what NBs used to tell people? Get more health. Again, better follow your own advises. And here's another good one... "adapt". Just about every NBs say this to whoever mentions that the class is just strong, even without the whining attached to it. Why shouldn't you?
But, I think this will fly over the head like that Rune Cage or deflected by your bubble shield.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel3 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »LeagueTroll wrote: »Magplar jab is not as easy to hit as ppl claim. Nb is good I agree.
Though to be honest half of the burst dmg a sorc has comes from curse. How do magplars die to sorcerers when they can purge the curse the moment they see it? I mean it costs the less than having two shields on so cost doesnt seem to be the problem.
Its expensive to cleanse. Sorcs have better built in regen compared to templar so if we stay defensive we'll surely die. The issue I have with sorc is how hard it is to counter your burst. With rune cage it's impossible to miss. Another issue is shields. You get too much free passives from using a shield. Harness regen is too much basicly making the skill free, you get free 100% crit resist. Free 100% penetration resistance. Why do I have to build impen when sorcs can build 100% glass cannon and be just as tanky.
You also dont have to build two sustain sets to spam defenses0 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
Basically saying have ridiculous amount of resources and recovery so you can play ultra defensive to everything lol. Gtfo0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ChildOfLight wrote: »I think you guys and this community have the Pvp balance you deserve.
That's harsh.
He's not wrong. I have a very low opinion of this game's community. If I gave my honest opinion I would probably get banned for it.
We agree on something, my opinion couldn’t possibly be lower.
We also agree that damaging proc sets shouldn't be a thing in PvP
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Killset✭✭✭✭
LOL they didn’t quit. They just switched to better builds. Especially when the Asylum Destro was first introduced. Just stop. Let me ask you this? Do you think Sorc is fine as is?
What are you even rambling on about?. You don’t see Dual Wield Sorcs because you would be an idiot to run one with the direct and indirect buffs Sorcs received from Destro staff counting as a two item set piece, Rune buff, and light/heavy attack damage buff. Are you actually crying because destro/resto sorc got so buffed as to make Dual Wield obsolete? The Sorc struggle is real lol.
Nightblade has been nerfed as much or more than every class you just mentioned. Sorc has escaped nerfs that other classes have been decimated with. A good example is Dark Deal remaining in the game when every other class had its sustain mechanics trashed. NB is good 1v1. At best. Sorc on the other hand is on a whole new level. But you know that.
You leave out the fact that sorc damage was buffed three fold with destro staff counting as 2 set pieces, light attack damage being buffed and Rune doing its damage up front. Arguments like “if the 2-4K damage from Rune killed you, you were going to die anyway” are complete and utter BS. That 2-4K hitting in the same GCD is now more than enough to put you in execute which should already be sitting on you like a ticking time bomb.Here’s some insight for you sorc fanboys who don’t know PvP outside your endless shield spam.
QQ rants don't equate to insight.Templars have bad dps compared to other classes, their jabs don’t even land most of the time and literally any player with any form of skill is easily able to dodge and evade the jab spam. All templars are essentially good for is turtling up and block castin BoL which basically makes them into a tank and does no damage. They can hardly kill any good class because they’re so vulnerable on offense you can literally smack a Templar in the face with a burst combo if they’re trying to go in the offensive. Their only form of dps is jabs and PoTL or purifying light combo which is the easiest burst to avoid. If you still cry about magplars being OP you’ve never played a Templar nor do you realize how difficult it is to actually do damage and have decent survivability on one.
Templar is a class that totally shines in a group setting but is very lacking when you run solo. A well played Templar makes a huge difference in a group. A Sorc not so much. You just can't compare the two classes as they function completely different. I'm all for giving Templar their soul back, but that has nothing to do with the OPness of Sorcs.Magsorcs have the easiest burst in the entire game. I don’t want to hear a stupid argument of “hrrr durrr stam haz their combo ez just Dawnbreaker spin 2 win” first off. You can block and dodge a dawnbreaker. You can block spin to win. Crying about DB spin to win combo is a l2p issue same with dying to a perma jab spammer. You just suck.
The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).Now back on the topic of sorcs. Rune cage is an uunblockable, undodgeable cc which has a massive range, relatively cheap cost, does a significant amount of damage, and has the longest stun duration. This has no counter play.
3k+ magicka (depending on LA passives) isn't "relatively cheap". Granted, the skill shouldn't have burst damage, but the rest of its functionality is exactly the same as before Summerset (hint: no one complained about it then).Don’t try and say “get more health” not all builds revolve around having a bunch of health.
I agree on that, but running a low health build is a build decision, and nothing you can complain about. At least that's what Sorcs get told all the time on the topic of Oblivion damage.Don’t try and say “get more stam, cc break”
In cyrodiil with lag already crazy enough as it is. Most of the time it’s not going to register you spamming your trigger buttons to cc break in time before the trash no skill sorc gives you the ez wombo combo burst.
I believe that's the main issue, and it isn't a Sorc specific one. CC is broken fundamentally in the game, and has been with specific CC skills for years (see Mass Hysteria for that). Fixing CC is the solution then.In non CP if you’re on a mag. Chances are you’re going to die pretty easily due to the fact that you have almost no stam, cc breaking takes half of it away, that’s not including having to use stam for blocking roll dodging or sprinting on a mag in non cp. so essentially you’re going to be hit with a full sorc burst and you cannot do a single thing about it.
I'm running with 16k stam on my noCP mSorc. Again, it's a conscious build decision if you run with less in favor of having a larger health and mag pool. If you want to know, a Sorc doesn't survive with 10k stam in noCP either.There’s is no counter play to an undodgeable unblockable cc with huge range. It’s an absolute joke for sorcs. Curse, meteor, rune cage, frags, excecute. Takes no skill and has no counter play. This is isn’t an “l2p” issue. It’s a “sorcs are ignorant af and don’t want their trash no skill builds nerfed or else they’ll cry like the babies they are” issue
Break free and roll dodge. If the 2k to 4k damage Rune Cage does now really kills you, you wouldn't have survived the follow up anyway. The exact same combination was possible before Summerset - without the Rune Cage damage.Please tell me how endless shield stacking and unblockable Undodgeable cc’s are balanced.
A typical Sorc build without pets or Necro/Shadowrend will be around 40k mag in noCP. Sgield stacking isn't endless if you want to go on the offensive too. And again, Sorcs had undodgeable and unblockable CC before Summerset.For those who try and argue saying fear and fossilize is Also unblockable and undodgable. First off. They require you to be in MELEE RANGE. Not to mention DK’s don’t have the damage output a sorc does so they can’t burst you down as fast as a sorc can when you’re fossilized. They also both have shorter stun duration and don’t do stupid amounts of damage. Not to mention you can’t just kill them from 41 meters away like you can on a trash sorc.
Melee range isn't a disadvantage if your class kit is built for melee (DK, stamNB). Only ranged magBlade is somewhat disadvantaged with Mass Hysteria, but they run Reach and/or Cripple anyway. As for magDKs damage output I'm not experienced enough to judge it, but the consensus from class mains seems to be that damage isn't the issue magDK has (although whip being dodgeable hurt them a bit).
40k magic in no cp! How do you endure. I can barely get 30k stamina while still building for all the other things I need to survive the Sorc fest BG’s have become.
Melee isn’t a disadvantage for melee characters If everyone I fought couldn’t damage me until I got within 5 meters of them. Sadly that isn’t the reality of things. The reality of PvP is far different then Sorcs defending their class would have you believe. Arguments like this are comical and anyone who has spent longer than 10 minutes in PvP can see right through it.
The fact that any person can legitimately argue that Sorc is balanced right now boggles my mind. This game needs a lot of changes. They could start with balancing Sorc, nerfing Sloads, nerfing Masters dual wield, nerfing Zaans, nerfing Caluurions, and nerfing the defile CP passive. It would be a good start.
And of course, NB remains untouched. Because NB, which is currently far above DK, Warden and Temp, will regain solo top position once that pesky sorc competitor has been OHKO'd by the nerf hammer.
Right.
Every single Person I play with unanimously agrees the class is brokenly overpowered right now, and this includes Sorc Mains. Every one. This isn’t even a debate anymore amongst people who aren’t grossly biased towards the class. And IF you are a Sorc main and aren’t feeling this, I suggest you YouTube a good Sorc build while the good times last.
Yeah, sorc has never been nerfed. Never.
Do you even know what a DW magsorc is? Seen one recently?
And if we take sorc out of the picture... are you REALLY claiming Warden, Temp and DK are on par with NB?
SERIOUSLY???
And to answer your second question. In any other context aside from solo, open world PvP. Yes. They are better.
DW sorcs have quit way, way before Summerset.
And you're just completely in denial if you think NB is weaker than those other classes.
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.
See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill
etc etc.
Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.
its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo
medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks
It's very much counterable.usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).
eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health
EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits
If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.
nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp
only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable
so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo
Like I said gank build confirmed.
if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed
most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once
EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build
Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.
I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic
and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable
can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?
can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage
You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.
You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.
Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao
It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.
I think if you die to the first opening part of the combo at that range, you have a lot more problem than a Sorc atm. Your build runs low health, I mean, what do you expect to happen? And your build in itself capitalizes on the range with your high damage Snipe. So... what's the problem here? Most Snipes are not audible unless you are in a very quiet environment. Cuz thanks ZOS.
I have a lot of other problems if I screw up. I mean, you can see multiple of my usual, common deaths on the build video I posted just a week ago:
https://youtu.be/axkpih8ehw4?t=4m31s
I chase a kill too hard and overstay my welcome, get focused by the entire green team. Also dodge roll in the wrong direction after gap closer leaves me exposed to DBOS. 100% my fault enemy team gets a kill there.
https://youtu.be/axkpih8ehw4?t=6m47s
Stunned by... something mid dodge roll & missing 400 stam from being able to CC break. Better resource management & positioning would've saved me. Mostly my fault again.
I'm fine with dying when I play bad & enemies play better - that's just how games usually work.
What I'm not fine with is dying despite doing everything correctly, which only really happens with Rune Cage at the moment.
There is no other combination that would guaranteed kill me without a way I could've avoided it (yes, that includes snipes).
You asked what the problem is. The problem is Rune Cage guaranteeing huge burst damage with no skill required from user & removing options of counterplay apart from "change your fun, enjoyable build to a boring tank build".
Same logic applies to Sorcs. If they mess up, they die. Simple as that. And every class dies to NBs even if they have 'done everything right'. You should admit that the low health is your problem. Not Rune Cage combo.
No, they don't.
If you keep your shields up, you'll never die to stealth burst, and everything else from NB is dodgeable/blockable (well, even burst from stealth is but let's ignore that for now). That means if you don't make mistakes... you live, even if you had 10k health.
Likewise, on a stamina build low health is a problem only when there's high burst you can't dodge/block/outrange, everything else falls in the "l2p" category. At the moment only one such source of burst exists: Rune Cage.
Think of health as a "difficulty slider".
Yes, the moment they don't do everything correctly, which is them being caught without shield, they die. How is this not the case then? Sorc is not some living gods that walk in Cyrodiil. They can be quite strong but not that much strong when you are spec'd defensively. We can talk about it not being the case if Sorc had autocast shield with 30k strength at 0 costs. And I have never seen a single Sorc that keeps the shield up while traversing or when NB hasn't appeared out of Cloak for a good while. Sorcs do and will die. I also have never seen a single person holding block up while moving in Cyrodiil either. And these people will also die without a chance to react. Stamblade answers to these problems always have been "slot more health" and so why shouldn't you?
I keep buffs up 24/7 whenever I can expect combat, no matter which class I play.
Capping a resource? Yeah, that Vigor is gonna stay up 24/7, same as Shuffle/Acceleration. Or shields if I play any of my magicka builds.
If I'm traveling between keeps and the combat music starts playing I know I'm about to get ganked & a simple dodge roll or block fixes that issue, unless it's an overload ganker that can just Rune Cage me & prevent that.
...and even if you do die to a ganker (entirely your own fault unless Rune Caged to prevent dodge/block) you can run/ride back with the knowledge there is a ganker, keep shields up/dodge roll/sneak, pop a det pot (and/or bait an attack) & get your revenge.
Bottom line is, there's always a chance to react or play proactively to avoid dying, unless we're talking about Rune Cage which removes that chance to react (while also dealing 4-5k damage by itself).
And no, "slot more health" hasn't been the "answer" (or even necessary/optimal) for medium stam builds, that's the answer for tank builds that don't dodge roll much at all. Yeah, the ones running bleeds & sloads and an entirely different (boring af) playstyle.
So does the Sorcs you complain about have to keep up their buffs, which is shields. Slot more health also is an option. I did not know the game greyed out when the user tried to enchant Medium Armor with Prismatic Defense glyphs. Or that the game forbid you from running Triune or even move some attributes to health. You run 18k health, what did you expect to happen? Even a breeze will kill you in that health and yet you keep insisting it is Rune Cage that is the problem, not your builds.
Yeah, because trading 1k burst for 2,2k health sounds like a good idea...
I don't think you understand how burst oriented builds work.
And no, "a breeze" doesn't kill me, only the most overtuned ability in the game aka Rune Cage does.
Happy to demonstrate this at any time vs anyone on PC EU; as long as I don't screw up I can live as long as I have stamina vs anything except Rune Cage.IZZEFlameLash wrote: »If you died to Rune Cage combo at 25k health and up in an instant the Meteor dropped, you might have a case but you flat out don't. You are running a gank build. And gank builds die when they get engaged by people who slot CCs. Sure, you can even giftwrap your build as glass cannon build. Even then, you really shouldn't complain about the Rune Cage because your health is so low.
Well, luckily Meteor is telegraphed because you do instagib even 25k health+ medium armor builds with it if you build at all for damage.
I even had a friend slot 5x Impregnable and he was unable to survive that.
As a stamblade I can atleast cloak+block when I see the Meteor circle (and hope there's no det pot users in range) to prevent Rune Cage, but medium stam sorcs for example are just dead.
And yes, I'm going to complain about Rune Cage because it's the only thing that allows such scenarios to occur without any drawbacks for using it as it has higher dmg than Reach or any other non-ultimate ranged CC.IZZEFlameLash wrote: »You really need to get out of that old NB instagib everyone meta mindset. Good NB players are not having as much problem with Rune Cage as you it seems. I don't know... maybe it has to do with the fact that they run more health? In Cyrodiil, near 25k health was almost always mandatory. And you know what NBs used to tell people? Get more health. Again, better follow your own advises. And here's another good one... "adapt". Just about every NBs say this to whoever mentions that the class is just strong, even without the whining attached to it. Why shouldn't you?
But, I think this will fly over the head like that Rune Cage or deflected by your bubble shield.
Oh, so you mean I should go slot bleeds & sloads and play an incap spamming tank build like all the "good" NBs?
Because that's what you get when you trade your burst for tankiness.
Unless you have some secret op bow burst build with 25k+ health, you should probably keep those ideas to yourself while playing a class that can have 10k health even and still survive any burst while hiding behind 30k shield stacks.
Tell you what, I'll accept "stack health" as an answer when Snipe & Bombard deal Oblivion damage and one shot dmg shield based builds unless they stack 25k+ health.
I.e. when "stacking health" becomes a requirement for everyone and not just victims of Rune Cage.Edited by DDuke on June 30, 2018 8:47AM4 -
Lutallo✭✭✭You know you have a massive L2P issue when you're getting GG'd by a Stamplar (probably the worst class this update) while you're on a Magsorc (by for the best class this update)."Rock is too OP, please nerf"
Sincerely, Scissors.7