Sorcs are easy. Okay

IZZEFlameLash

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).

eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health

EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits

If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.

Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.

See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill

etc etc.


Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.

I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.

its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo

medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks

It's very much counterable.

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).

eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health

EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits

If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.

nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp

only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable

so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo

Like I said gank build confirmed.

if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed

most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once

EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build

Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.

I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic

and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable

can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?

can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage

You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.

You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.

Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao


It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.

I think if you die to the first opening part of the combo at that range, you have a lot more problem than a Sorc atm. Your build runs low health, I mean, what do you expect to happen? And your build in itself capitalizes on the range with your high damage Snipe. So... what's the problem here? Most Snipes are not audible unless you are in a very quiet environment. Cuz thanks ZOS.

Feanor

@Killset

For one of the most popular setups (Shackle/Lich/1pc Domi) the change for 2H counting as 2pc means you can run Willpower additionally now. It’s a buff, but not a huge one. 1.4k mag and 186 SD. The damage sets a Sorc can choose from are mainly PvE centric - BSW, Scathing Mage, Aether, Moondancer, or the trial sets - they all aren’t they great in PvP. You can go the cheese route of course and play Caluurion and Zaan, but not everybody wants that.

As for “the combo” - it was possible since Clockwork City. The only difference is 2k to 4k damage on RC now, and that more Sorcs caught on and used it instead of Reach.

Go blame ZOS really. The Sorc thread on the PTS identified the issues correctly. Now we get blamed for “defending” the cheese. If I look at the NB class rep thread instead I wonder if the Sorc community isn’t to modest in the demands.

Lord-Otto

@Feanor
What about the NB thread? Haven't pursued it.
I do remember NBs waltzing into the sorc thread and demanding nerfs, though. Maybe I should have done the same to them, hm... Has something of primates throwing waste at each other...

Feanor

Lord-Otto wrote: »

@Feanor
What about the NB thread? Haven't pursued it.
I do remember NBs waltzing into the sorc thread and demanding nerfs, though. Maybe I should have done the same to them, hm... Has something of primates throwing waste at each other...

The NB Thread is basically asking for more buffs, among these:

1. Snare removal/immunity
2. Major Breach on Concealed Weapon
3. A stamina burst heal
4. Making strife unreflectable
5. Less things that break cloak
6. An adamant refusal to adjusting Incap, but buffing the other morph instead

It’s a fun read.

Lord-Otto

Feanor wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

@Feanor
What about the NB thread? Haven't pursued it.
I do remember NBs waltzing into the sorc thread and demanding nerfs, though. Maybe I should have done the same to them, hm... Has something of primates throwing waste at each other...

The NB Thread is basically asking for more buffs, among these:

1. Snare removal/immunity
2. Major Breach on Concealed Weapon
3. A stamina burst heal
4. Making strife unreflectable
5. Less things that break cloak
6. An adamant refusal to adjusting Incap, but buffing the other morph instead

It’s a fun read.

Of course.
x'D
Some points are agreeable and would be nice, but overall, the class performs extremely well.
Well, forumblades, what can you say?
(^_-)

Edziu

usmguy1234 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

So...

It's a "Sorcs are A-OK" thread that turned into a "nerf sorcs" thread that quickly turned into a "Nerf nightblades" thread.

Yes. Most of the sh*t posters on here are gankblades running 16k health.

like we see many shitposters here trying to defend sorcs without any good arguments

and no, I myself very very barely see others nb's running with less than 20k health and I see now you comparing me to other gankblades with low health while Im not even gankblade lol

jsut advice from me, learn to read with understanding and dont post nonsense when you are biased and even dont know other side of coin

Feanor

like we see many shitposters here trying to defend sorcs without any good arguments

That has quite probably something to do with the quality of the adjustment proposals. The wish list from the “Sorc OP crowd”:

1. No damage on Rune Cage, or a range reduction to 8 or 15m, or both
2. Make RC dodgeable and blockable
3. No 4 second window on Fury/Wrath
4. No curse stacking (I actually agree on that one, but do this for PotL/Purify as well then)
5. Make Curse blockable and dodgeable
5. Damage reduction on Overload
6. Another Streak nerf
7. Remove shield stacking

If we do this, what’s left of the class? That’s why the class gets defended. The Sorc PTS thread proves no Sorc isn’t open to reasonable adjustments when compensations come elsewhere.

Edziu

@Feanor

as for me

just about rune cage revert it to old one and do same with crystal frag...even nonone complainej about easy dodgable old hard hitting fragment with stun, it needed good timing with combo to land this but with it it was high risk and high reward

about mages wrath...just dont have idea what to do, its just very annyoing how it instagib nontanks, just pointing it

curse unblockable ok, undodgable, ok can be but why it can hit 2 times at 1 cast? no matter most people it recasting earliel, its just annyoing how after sometime when you need to regen its hitting again but for free then, curse was always sorc point of his existence

damage on overload is now problemw ith new empower..just insane how ZOS again didnt rethink it before introducing this
overload itself I think isnt problem like jsut tards spamming it and not able to do anyother like on bg's jsut run with team and spam even LA to charge ult and then overload spam, its like proc sets for noob, go for this and then die like noob which is

hmm didnt seen here next reqests for streak nerf and for me this is no needed like it wasnt need to nerf crystal frags

and shieldstacking..uhh this is more complicated and wont write about it as Im not the best with explaining so will say nothing about it as its main defense of sorc like nb cloak and it should be nerfed hard, maybe some adjusts for this or something more for sorc survivability while adjusting shields? idk

DDuke

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).

eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health

EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits

If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.

Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.

See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill

etc etc.


Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.

I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.

its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo

medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks

It's very much counterable.

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).

eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health

EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits

If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.

nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp

only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable

so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo

Like I said gank build confirmed.

if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed

most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once

EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build

Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.

I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic

and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable

can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?

can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage

You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.

You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.

Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao


It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.

I think if you die to the first opening part of the combo at that range, you have a lot more problem than a Sorc atm. Your build runs low health, I mean, what do you expect to happen? And your build in itself capitalizes on the range with your high damage Snipe. So... what's the problem here? Most Snipes are not audible unless you are in a very quiet environment. Cuz thanks ZOS.

I have a lot of other problems if I screw up. I mean, you can see multiple of my usual, common deaths on the build video I posted just a week ago:

https://youtu.be/axkpih8ehw4?t=4m31s
I chase a kill too hard and overstay my welcome, get focused by the entire green team. Also dodge roll in the wrong direction after gap closer leaves me exposed to DBOS. 100% my fault enemy team gets a kill there.

https://youtu.be/axkpih8ehw4?t=6m47s
Stunned by... something mid dodge roll & missing 400 stam from being able to CC break. Better resource management & positioning would've saved me. Mostly my fault again.


I'm fine with dying when I play bad & enemies play better - that's just how games usually work.

What I'm not fine with is dying despite doing everything correctly, which only really happens with Rune Cage at the moment.


There is no other combination that would guaranteed kill me without a way I could've avoided it (yes, that includes snipes).


You asked what the problem is. The problem is Rune Cage guaranteeing huge burst damage with no skill required from user & removing options of counterplay apart from "change your fun, enjoyable build to a boring tank build".

Chibs

Old Magblade main, now Stam Sorc main

I think the problem is a lot of NBs are getting their ego shattered now that they realize they aren’t as op or good as they thought they were. I’ve been playing since 2015, and while I will concede Mag Sorcs used to be very op, that is definitely not the case anymore.

It is no secret that Mag Sorcs are easier to play, that is why they dominate Maelstrom leaderboards. But when you look at the PvP leader boards what do you see? I see a whole lot of NBs that’s for sure.

Now I’m not saying NBs are op at all. I feel they are in a very good state. But I agree with people who argue that Incap needs to be toned down. If you take an evenly skilled Mag NB and Mag Sorc and put them in a room, Mag NB is definitely coming out. They are the obviously superior class in terms of damage, burst potential, sustain, heals, etc. Mag Sorcs are definitely a bit tougher to kill though because of their superior class shield and shield stacking while a Magblade has to use Harness/Dampen.

People who complain about Sorc burst just have l2p issues, plain and simple. There are skills/potions/sets that make you immune or much less vulnerable to dumb bs snares/roots/stuns etc and you’re free to use them. You can also root/stun/snare/LOS your opponent to stop or mistime the burst if that’s your thing.

“I shouldn’t have to change one thing to counter another” is such a dumb argument that pretty much all classes use on each other. PvP is about outplaying your opponent and you may have to change some skills around or use some niche sets to do that. PvP at times can be as simple as Rock Paper Scissors.

The only change that should be implimented that may affect Sorcs is the fact that damage shields should be Crit-able.


The only time I ever have a problem with Sorcs is when I’m learning a new class/build, which comes down as l2p.


Edit; I also disagree with my fellow Sorc mains who argue that NB is the most complete and well rounded class in the game. If that was true, then we’d all be saying how Magblade is the easiest. Mag Sorc is the most well rounded class in the game without a doubt.

usmguy1234

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

So...

It's a "Sorcs are A-OK" thread that turned into a "nerf sorcs" thread that quickly turned into a "Nerf nightblades" thread.

Yes. Most of the sh*t posters on here are gankblades running 16k health.

like we see many shitposters here trying to defend sorcs without any good arguments

and no, I myself very very barely see others nb's running with less than 20k health and I see now you comparing me to other gankblades with low health while Im not even gankblade lol

jsut advice from me, learn to read with understanding and dont post nonsense when you are biased and even dont know other side of coin

Every other spec in the game has to have a decent amount of health (>20k) just to survive a nightblade's burst. How is it unreasonable that nightblades have to do the same now? The mere fact that you can be successful with such low health is a testament to how overtuned nightblades are. NIghtblade mains are so blind to this they haven't seen how every other spec has had to evolve just to compensate for that fact throughout this game's history. When you finally get a taste of your own medicine, you whine and call for nerfs. I say it's time for you to evolve just like everyone else. improvise. adapt. overcome.

Killset

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).

eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health

EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits

If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.

Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.

See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill

etc etc.


Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.

I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.

its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo

medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks

It's very much counterable.

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).

eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health

EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits

If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.

nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp

only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable

so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo

Like I said gank build confirmed.

if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed

most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once

EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build

Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.

I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic

and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable

can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?

can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage

You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.

You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.

Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao


It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.

28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.

Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.

And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.

same distance as gap closers? you forgot gap closers have 22m range and skillis with range better than 28m have additional 8m range in just battlespirit so you have 36m range on simple range skill while gap closer is only 22m, gl with running those few meters where every sec is very important

Good players can cover that distance before you get half of your rotation off.

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).

eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health

EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits

If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.

Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.

See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill

etc etc.


Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.

I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.

its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo

medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks

It's very much counterable.

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).

eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health

EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits

If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.

nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp

only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable

so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo

Like I said gank build confirmed.

if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed

most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once

EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build

Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.

I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic

and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable

can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?

can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage

You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.

You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.

Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao


It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.

28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.

Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.

And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.

You get +8m range on all skills with 28m range from Battle Spirit. In case of keep fights we'd be talking about a 41m (Reach passive) ability, not 36m.

...and you definitely don't need ultimate to burst someone down with Rune Cage, here's an example:


You just need to land multiple hard hitting abilities at the same time & get a Fury or Implosion proc for the kill now.

In previous patches the burst was very close, but not quite enough (without Meteor) to kill someone in a non-tank build from 100>0.


Meteor is actually the easiest Cage combo to deal with (atleast as a stamblade) since you just cloak when you see the Meteor prompt, block while cloaked & you're good to go. Det pot guarantees a kill for sorc here of course, but even that can somewhat be countered by using their tendency to fight at maximum range against them (det pot has 20m radius).

Ok so if you can handle the combo then the picture you put up must have resulted in your failure to break out of rune. If you run out of resources you're going to die... unless the other guy is a tank.

It has nothing to do with not being able to break out of the rune. When you combo with Rune Cage, you guarantee that abilities land at the same time as the 4-5k damage CC. If someone for example saw a Frag coming and tried to dodge roll it, Rune Cage makes sure that Frag lands & you take full damage from it (and 4-5k from the Cage itself).

The difference is that when someone casts a Meteor on you you're given a clear "cloak now" cue where as other Cage bursts begin with the Cage CC'ing you & disabling your defenses.

That's why the full combo (any combo really that involves Meteor & doesn't involve det pots) is ironically easier to deal with as stamblade.

Frag has a cue that is petty obvious. I mean you had a 8 kill steak before the sorc killed you. I guess people will always complain about something.

What I've been trying to tell you is that the Frag cue (just for example) simply doesn't matter when you Rune Cage->Frag (in that order) & guaranteed land the Frag with other damage.

Meteor combo is this order: Meteor->Rune Cage->Frag, meaning you have time after Meteor prompt to cloak or find LoS to prevent further damage.


I'm just complaining about things that don't have reasonable counterplay and let people get kills in scenarios where they don't deserve those kills (i.e. when what someone does takes absolutely no skill or effort). Sload is another example of broken bs atm, and to somewhat lesser extent Incap (as it enables easymode two button burst with Relentless/Merciless and even replaces traditional CC abilities in most builds given how frequently you can use it).

Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like you're using the bombard/ lethal arrow gank combo with the asylum bow. That's a little hypocritical to preach about mechanisms with little counterplay.

I am (imho it's the strongest way to play medium armor atm), but unlike Rune Cage it does have reasonable counterplay in form of staying in stealth, block, dodge & dmg shields - reactive/proactive defenses that don't require you to build a tank.


Meanwhile as a medium armor player I have one proactive defense against Rune Cage: staying in stealth. I'd hardly call that reasonable.


It's also the main reason I haven't made a (less stealth-reliant) new melee build for example; those are just not effective with Rune Cage around.


Btw since we're talking about sorcs being easy, here's an example of what people can do with stealth oriented mSorc builds: https://youtu.be/6tuzk7Tz9o4

...from up to 36m (and guaranteed to land if Overload LA->Rune Cage), without having to land a 20m cone AoE & Snipe in the correct order from the correct distance.

Hey man you do you. If you need to justify cheese with cheese that's cool. As far as having a legitimate conversation about "balance" here, I'm done wasting my time with you. Have a nice day.

Isn't that what you are doing though?

"Hey that guy plays a stealth burst oriented build! It's completely okay to have 36m range 10k tooltip CCs that go through block/dodge because of that."


Stealth oriented builds have existed since the beta of this game and that's how long I've been playing them. It's funny how people only start bringing them up when they need to defend things like Rune Cage.

I don't actually use rune cage. I'm arguing against stupid nerfs to a class I enjoy.

https://youtu.be/M0jB-EyZ3_g

This is my video on the state of pvp on console. Feel free to look at my skill bar.

Bye now.

Are you playing in 1st person?

usmguy1234

Killset wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).

eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health

EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits

If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.

Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.

See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill

etc etc.


Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.

I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.

its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo

medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks

It's very much counterable.

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).

eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health

EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits

If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.

nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp

only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable

so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo

Like I said gank build confirmed.

if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed

most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once

EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build

Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.

I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic

and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable

can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?

can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage

You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.

You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.

Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao


It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.

28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.

Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.

And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.

same distance as gap closers? you forgot gap closers have 22m range and skillis with range better than 28m have additional 8m range in just battlespirit so you have 36m range on simple range skill while gap closer is only 22m, gl with running those few meters where every sec is very important

Good players can cover that distance before you get half of your rotation off.

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).

eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health

EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits

If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.

Bull***, you can survive anything in game with <20k health pool if you play well & react properly to things.

See a Leap? Block.
Someone used gap closer? Dodge roll if stamblade & block+dodge roll forward (through opponent) if another class.
Soul Assault? Block & cloak after 2s or block & drop a Ballista for a free kill

etc etc.


Rune Cage is the only exception that you cannot counter by any means available (apart from building as a tank) as it disables reaction based defenses.

I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to single attacks. One properly placed cc of any type and you're toast with less than 20k health. And if you can't cc break rune in a 1v1 vs a sorc bad resource management was the cause of your death. In 1vx you were most likely going to die anyways regardless if the sorc was there or not.

its reffering to every medium build lol, going in medium you arnt tankly so everything will you eat if you are noob, if you are experienced you know how and what work and when run awya or from which got out fast and you dont have resource management problem, its just sorc noncounterable combo

medium isnt that tankly as heavy + in heavy you have bonuses to more max health and healing recevied if you didnt know before, thats why any medium armor user is fast melting if you catch him and he is unable to dodge/LoS your attacks

It's very much counterable.

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).

eeeee lol?
normal hit from skill ofc you can block or dodge but if you get hit you cant block or even dodge passive mages wrath waiting 4 sec to proc at 20% health and this is instagib always to everyone nontankly build under 20k health

EDIT: and about overload..you know someone can just gather ulti to 200+ and then literraly spam overload on you ehere about dodge you wont have even enough stamina to dodge spam that many times in medium at how many strikes can have this sorc fo overload especially on noncp without additional reduction to dodge outside traits

If you are running anything with health under 20k your are going to get rammed by everything in pvp not just sorcs. You need at least 25k health. Anything with that low health is probably a ganking build anyways and you're just mad that you can't one shot a sorc with their shields up.

nope you are wrong
I mainly play with just 16k health stamblade on noncp withou impene but with well fitted and I have no problem with most of things in pvp

only thing which can instagib me is nonblocked meteor, dk leap (but those are ults, ok) and ofc sorc amges wrath, annyoing as hell, once drop jsut to 20% hp where in many many times I still ave option to survive but against magsorc with this its always instagib with not to mention how his main burst is comming from unblockable and undodgable skills, none of rest classes can achieve burst with time of 1-2 sec with that many skill at once which are also unblockable and undodgable

so no, even when I running much under 20k health I dont getting rammed by everything when I know how and what is working
problem which I (and ofc not only I) have is nocounterable combo which sorc got after unecessary big nerfs to crystal frag where we had option with counter to his combo

Like I said gank build confirmed.

if I was gank build I will have stacked to max weapon damage and stamine isntead of 1.5k magica regen and 2.8k stam regen with only 30k stam and 3.5k weapon dmg buffed

most people jsut invest more to weapon dmg and max stats, I invested more to regens becasue I jsut cant play even with very high stats if I dont have regens and I dont think this could be gank build with thal low stacked damage and invested into high both stat regens at once

EDIT: and btw you never written you even think Im on gank build

Most nightblades I personally know that play the rogue/ganker type run bone pirate mixed with shackle. Nightblades sacrifice very little in burst by running multiple sustain sets or even defense based sets.

I was runnign as ganker until final nerfs as for me with morrowind but its offtopic

and as counterable sorc como..this was counterable until those changes to rune cage + with old crystal frags it was really counterable

can you then please tell me cow to counter unmitigable stun with additional damage if it end/break free + before placed on you curse and flying to you crystal frag and just before hit you getting rune cage while dodge?

can you conter this all damage if you instantly will get this unmitigable cc? always we can also add meteor to this to 100% guaranted kill with rune cage

You basically want to cc the sorc as soon as you see the meteor rune at your feet. Hell you don't even need to do that if you chug an immovable pot. Tons of options to you as a nightblade as far as stun goes. If he's got mines up you basically have free cc immunity on demand.

You can't CC someone who's 36m away spamming *** (newsflash: most builds don't have 36m+ undodgeable/blockable CCs), Immovable has 45s cooldown (unlike sorc burst) & mines don't give CC immunity, they give root immunity (and hit really f'in hard if you're not a tank build) as they're not CCs, they're roots.

Oh, and Bone Pirate+Shackle most definitely isn't a "gank build" like you implied earlier lmao


It's getting harder & harder to take this seriously.

28+5= 33 not 36. The same distance as gap closers. This is only near keeps.

Class doesn't matter on burst cooldown... sorcs are delayed burst anyways and fairly dependant on ult. An ult that cost 200 compared to 70...laughable.

And I thought you could break free after being hit by mines. That was my mistake. Still doesn't take away the relevance of my argument that there are counters to sorc burst.

You get +8m range on all skills with 28m range from Battle Spirit. In case of keep fights we'd be talking about a 41m (Reach passive) ability, not 36m.

...and you definitely don't need ultimate to burst someone down with Rune Cage, here's an example:


You just need to land multiple hard hitting abilities at the same time & get a Fury or Implosion proc for the kill now.

In previous patches the burst was very close, but not quite enough (without Meteor) to kill someone in a non-tank build from 100>0.


Meteor is actually the easiest Cage combo to deal with (atleast as a stamblade) since you just cloak when you see the Meteor prompt, block while cloaked & you're good to go. Det pot guarantees a kill for sorc here of course, but even that can somewhat be countered by using their tendency to fight at maximum range against them (det pot has 20m radius).

Ok so if you can handle the combo then the picture you put up must have resulted in your failure to break out of rune. If you run out of resources you're going to die... unless the other guy is a tank.

It has nothing to do with not being able to break out of the rune. When you combo with Rune Cage, you guarantee that abilities land at the same time as the 4-5k damage CC. If someone for example saw a Frag coming and tried to dodge roll it, Rune Cage makes sure that Frag lands & you take full damage from it (and 4-5k from the Cage itself).

The difference is that when someone casts a Meteor on you you're given a clear "cloak now" cue where as other Cage bursts begin with the Cage CC'ing you & disabling your defenses.

That's why the full combo (any combo really that involves Meteor & doesn't involve det pots) is ironically easier to deal with as stamblade.

Frag has a cue that is petty obvious. I mean you had a 8 kill steak before the sorc killed you. I guess people will always complain about something.

What I've been trying to tell you is that the Frag cue (just for example) simply doesn't matter when you Rune Cage->Frag (in that order) & guaranteed land the Frag with other damage.

Meteor combo is this order: Meteor->Rune Cage->Frag, meaning you have time after Meteor prompt to cloak or find LoS to prevent further damage.


I'm just complaining about things that don't have reasonable counterplay and let people get kills in scenarios where they don't deserve those kills (i.e. when what someone does takes absolutely no skill or effort). Sload is another example of broken bs atm, and to somewhat lesser extent Incap (as it enables easymode two button burst with Relentless/Merciless and even replaces traditional CC abilities in most builds given how frequently you can use it).

Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like you're using the bombard/ lethal arrow gank combo with the asylum bow. That's a little hypocritical to preach about mechanisms with little counterplay.

I am (imho it's the strongest way to play medium armor atm), but unlike Rune Cage it does have reasonable counterplay in form of staying in stealth, block, dodge & dmg shields - reactive/proactive defenses that don't require you to build a tank.


Meanwhile as a medium armor player I have one proactive defense against Rune Cage: staying in stealth. I'd hardly call that reasonable.


It's also the main reason I haven't made a (less stealth-reliant) new melee build for example; those are just not effective with Rune Cage around.


Btw since we're talking about sorcs being easy, here's an example of what people can do with stealth oriented mSorc builds: https://youtu.be/6tuzk7Tz9o4

...from up to 36m (and guaranteed to land if Overload LA->Rune Cage), without having to land a 20m cone AoE & Snipe in the correct order from the correct distance.

Hey man you do you. If you need to justify cheese with cheese that's cool. As far as having a legitimate conversation about "balance" here, I'm done wasting my time with you. Have a nice day.

Isn't that what you are doing though?

"Hey that guy plays a stealth burst oriented build! It's completely okay to have 36m range 10k tooltip CCs that go through block/dodge because of that."


Stealth oriented builds have existed since the beta of this game and that's how long I've been playing them. It's funny how people only start bringing them up when they need to defend things like Rune Cage.

I don't actually use rune cage. I'm arguing against stupid nerfs to a class I enjoy.

https://youtu.be/M0jB-EyZ3_g

This is my video on the state of pvp on console. Feel free to look at my skill bar.

Bye now.

Are you playing in 1st person?

It was some glitch when the dk leaped me. My character completely disappeared. If you watch closely you can see me switch from third to first to see if I could fix the issue. Game is broken.

DDuke

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

So...

It's a "Sorcs are A-OK" thread that turned into a "nerf sorcs" thread that quickly turned into a "Nerf nightblades" thread.

Yes. Most of the sh*t posters on here are gankblades running 16k health.

like we see many shitposters here trying to defend sorcs without any good arguments

and no, I myself very very barely see others nb's running with less than 20k health and I see now you comparing me to other gankblades with low health while Im not even gankblade lol

jsut advice from me, learn to read with understanding and dont post nonsense when you are biased and even dont know other side of coin

Every other spec in the game has to have a decent amount of health (>20k) just to survive a nightblade's burst. How is it unreasonable that nightblades have to do the same now? The mere fact that you can be successful with such low health is a testament to how overtuned nightblades are. NIghtblade mains are so blind to this they haven't seen how every other spec has had to evolve just to compensate for that fact throughout this game's history. When you finally get a taste of your own medicine, you whine and call for nerfs. I say it's time for you to evolve just like everyone else. improvise. adapt. overcome.

That is bs, the entirety of NB burst can be dodged/blocked and last I checked most sorcerers don't stack health at all, they stack magicka & hide behind 30k+ shield stacks while enjoying the benefits of having full offensive stats - so yeah, must be easy to call for others to "adapt"

The only thing you need to stack health/mitigation to survive against atm is Rune Cage - literally everything else in game can be dodged/blocked/outranged.

usmguy1234

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

So...

It's a "Sorcs are A-OK" thread that turned into a "nerf sorcs" thread that quickly turned into a "Nerf nightblades" thread.

Yes. Most of the sh*t posters on here are gankblades running 16k health.

like we see many shitposters here trying to defend sorcs without any good arguments

and no, I myself very very barely see others nb's running with less than 20k health and I see now you comparing me to other gankblades with low health while Im not even gankblade lol

jsut advice from me, learn to read with understanding and dont post nonsense when you are biased and even dont know other side of coin

Every other spec in the game has to have a decent amount of health (>20k) just to survive a nightblade's burst. How is it unreasonable that nightblades have to do the same now? The mere fact that you can be successful with such low health is a testament to how overtuned nightblades are. NIghtblade mains are so blind to this they haven't seen how every other spec has had to evolve just to compensate for that fact throughout this game's history. When you finally get a taste of your own medicine, you whine and call for nerfs. I say it's time for you to evolve just like everyone else. improvise. adapt. overcome.

That is bs, the entirety of NB burst can be dodged/blocked and last I checked most sorcerers don't stack health at all, they stack magicka & hide behind 30k+ shield stacks while enjoying the benefits of having full offensive stats - so yeah, must be easy to call for others to "adapt"

The only thing you need to stack health/mitigation to survive against atm is Rune Cage - literally everything else in game can be dodged/blocked/outranged.

We've had this conversation already... no need for a repeat. Rune cage has counters end of story. And yes sorcs do care about health because shields aren't the God mode that you claim they are.

Edziu

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

So...

It's a "Sorcs are A-OK" thread that turned into a "nerf sorcs" thread that quickly turned into a "Nerf nightblades" thread.

Yes. Most of the sh*t posters on here are gankblades running 16k health.

like we see many shitposters here trying to defend sorcs without any good arguments

and no, I myself very very barely see others nb's running with less than 20k health and I see now you comparing me to other gankblades with low health while Im not even gankblade lol

jsut advice from me, learn to read with understanding and dont post nonsense when you are biased and even dont know other side of coin

Every other spec in the game has to have a decent amount of health (>20k) just to survive a nightblade's burst. How is it unreasonable that nightblades have to do the same now? The mere fact that you can be successful with such low health is a testament to how overtuned nightblades are. NIghtblade mains are so blind to this they haven't seen how every other spec has had to evolve just to compensate for that fact throughout this game's history. When you finally get a taste of your own medicine, you whine and call for nerfs. I say it's time for you to evolve just like everyone else. improvise. adapt. overcome.

even dont know what you mean lol, you or ignoring what I explaining or cant understand
I wrote I see most nb's at all have this 20k+ health and this is also their problem with undodgable/blockable sorc burst

and like @DDuke said sorc easier than nb is sitting under 20k health because of shields
what I see on bg's or on cyro its that more nb's have 20k+ than sorcs sitting behind their shields

and also all nb burst is blockable, dodgable, you can dodge burst opener - incap and your problem with nb burst is solved, he need to gain incap again but if you eat this incal its enough to shield/tank for jsut 5 secs of time incap debufss and you are free, you can go again in offense becasue you tanked all nb possible burst

while on sorc uhhh lol? everything except his spammable is unblockable or undodgable and with combined rune cage even blockable/dodgable skill is hitting at full damage (meteor/frags) because with time whiel you wanted to block/dodge this skill you suddenly get uncounterable cc and before break free you eat all damage which you even could block normally

grannas211

Having a discussion with Stamblade mains is like trying to debate with a toddler.

usmguy1234

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

So...

It's a "Sorcs are A-OK" thread that turned into a "nerf sorcs" thread that quickly turned into a "Nerf nightblades" thread.

Yes. Most of the sh*t posters on here are gankblades running 16k health.

like we see many shitposters here trying to defend sorcs without any good arguments

and no, I myself very very barely see others nb's running with less than 20k health and I see now you comparing me to other gankblades with low health while Im not even gankblade lol

jsut advice from me, learn to read with understanding and dont post nonsense when you are biased and even dont know other side of coin

Every other spec in the game has to have a decent amount of health (>20k) just to survive a nightblade's burst. How is it unreasonable that nightblades have to do the same now? The mere fact that you can be successful with such low health is a testament to how overtuned nightblades are. NIghtblade mains are so blind to this they haven't seen how every other spec has had to evolve just to compensate for that fact throughout this game's history. When you finally get a taste of your own medicine, you whine and call for nerfs. I say it's time for you to evolve just like everyone else. improvise. adapt. overcome.

even dont know what you mean lol, you or ignoring what I explaining or cant understand
I wrote I see most nb's at all have this 20k+ health and this is also their problem with undodgable/blockable sorc burst

and like @DDuke said sorc easier than nb is sitting under 20k health because of shields
what I see on bg's or on cyro its that more nb's have 20k+ than sorcs sitting behind their shields

and also all nb burst is blockable, dodgable, you can dodge burst opener - incap and your problem with nb burst is solved, he need to gain incap again but if you eat this incal its enough to shield/tank for jsut 5 secs of time incap debufss and you are free, you can go again in offense becasue you tanked all nb possible burst

while on sorc uhhh lol? everything except his spammable is unblockable or undodgable and with combined rune cage even blockable/dodgable skill is hitting at full damage (meteor/frags) because with time whiel you wanted to block/dodge this skill you suddenly get uncounterable cc and before break free you eat all damage which you even could block normally

Cfrags> blockable/dodgeable/LOS
Curse> Can be purged/LOS
Pulse>blockable/dodgeable/LOS
Reach>blockable/dodgeable/LOS
Rune>Pots/Break Free/ Prior CC immunity/LOS

KingJ

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

So...

It's a "Sorcs are A-OK" thread that turned into a "nerf sorcs" thread that quickly turned into a "Nerf nightblades" thread.

Yes. Most of the sh*t posters on here are gankblades running 16k health.

like we see many shitposters here trying to defend sorcs without any good arguments

and no, I myself very very barely see others nb's running with less than 20k health and I see now you comparing me to other gankblades with low health while Im not even gankblade lol

jsut advice from me, learn to read with understanding and dont post nonsense when you are biased and even dont know other side of coin

Every other spec in the game has to have a decent amount of health (>20k) just to survive a nightblade's burst. How is it unreasonable that nightblades have to do the same now? The mere fact that you can be successful with such low health is a testament to how overtuned nightblades are. NIghtblade mains are so blind to this they haven't seen how every other spec has had to evolve just to compensate for that fact throughout this game's history. When you finally get a taste of your own medicine, you whine and call for nerfs. I say it's time for you to evolve just like everyone else. improvise. adapt. overcome.

That is bs, the entirety of NB burst can be dodged/blocked and last I checked most sorcerers don't stack health at all, they stack magicka & hide behind 30k+ shield stacks while enjoying the benefits of having full offensive stats - so yeah, must be easy to call for others to "adapt"

The only thing you need to stack health/mitigation to survive against atm is Rune Cage - literally everything else in game can be dodged/blocked/outranged.

We've had this conversation already... no need for a repeat. Rune cage has counters end of story. And yes sorcs do care about health because shields aren't the God mode that you claim they are.

What immovable pots 1 counter that's great.I see sorc with less health than most gankblades.

Edziu

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

So...

It's a "Sorcs are A-OK" thread that turned into a "nerf sorcs" thread that quickly turned into a "Nerf nightblades" thread.

Yes. Most of the sh*t posters on here are gankblades running 16k health.

like we see many shitposters here trying to defend sorcs without any good arguments

and no, I myself very very barely see others nb's running with less than 20k health and I see now you comparing me to other gankblades with low health while Im not even gankblade lol

jsut advice from me, learn to read with understanding and dont post nonsense when you are biased and even dont know other side of coin

Every other spec in the game has to have a decent amount of health (>20k) just to survive a nightblade's burst. How is it unreasonable that nightblades have to do the same now? The mere fact that you can be successful with such low health is a testament to how overtuned nightblades are. NIghtblade mains are so blind to this they haven't seen how every other spec has had to evolve just to compensate for that fact throughout this game's history. When you finally get a taste of your own medicine, you whine and call for nerfs. I say it's time for you to evolve just like everyone else. improvise. adapt. overcome.

even dont know what you mean lol, you or ignoring what I explaining or cant understand
I wrote I see most nb's at all have this 20k+ health and this is also their problem with undodgable/blockable sorc burst

and like @DDuke said sorc easier than nb is sitting under 20k health because of shields
what I see on bg's or on cyro its that more nb's have 20k+ than sorcs sitting behind their shields

and also all nb burst is blockable, dodgable, you can dodge burst opener - incap and your problem with nb burst is solved, he need to gain incap again but if you eat this incal its enough to shield/tank for jsut 5 secs of time incap debufss and you are free, you can go again in offense becasue you tanked all nb possible burst

while on sorc uhhh lol? everything except his spammable is unblockable or undodgable and with combined rune cage even blockable/dodgable skill is hitting at full damage (meteor/frags) because with time whiel you wanted to block/dodge this skill you suddenly get uncounterable cc and before break free you eat all damage which you even could block normally

Cfrags> blockable/dodgeable/LOS
Curse> Can be purged/LOS
Pulse>blockable/dodgeable/LOS
Reach>blockable/dodgeable/LOS
Rune>Pots/Break Free/ Prior CC immunity/LOS

we all are sying about single overpowered thing while you desribing almsot every sorc skill about which you dont complain, only mention it with combined op skill and you evn cant provide good enough argument to say this skill isnt op

pots - using other or have cooldown because used another because was needed?

break free...after you eat all damage because while stun just proc on you in sam moment you eat all delayed damage not like nb burst where is going cc, then single skill, break free int hat moment and then 2nd skilla which jsut can be blocked/dodged after this break free with eaten single hit

prior cc immunity, then sorc wont start his burst, he will see you are immune and will wait with his burst

LoS - same can say about everyone other, not only sorc - incap op? if you eat its debuffs jsut LOS dude, whats a problemw ith you? LOS and wait until incap debuffs end

usmguy1234

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

So...

It's a "Sorcs are A-OK" thread that turned into a "nerf sorcs" thread that quickly turned into a "Nerf nightblades" thread.

Yes. Most of the sh*t posters on here are gankblades running 16k health.

like we see many shitposters here trying to defend sorcs without any good arguments

and no, I myself very very barely see others nb's running with less than 20k health and I see now you comparing me to other gankblades with low health while Im not even gankblade lol

jsut advice from me, learn to read with understanding and dont post nonsense when you are biased and even dont know other side of coin

Every other spec in the game has to have a decent amount of health (>20k) just to survive a nightblade's burst. How is it unreasonable that nightblades have to do the same now? The mere fact that you can be successful with such low health is a testament to how overtuned nightblades are. NIghtblade mains are so blind to this they haven't seen how every other spec has had to evolve just to compensate for that fact throughout this game's history. When you finally get a taste of your own medicine, you whine and call for nerfs. I say it's time for you to evolve just like everyone else. improvise. adapt. overcome.

even dont know what you mean lol, you or ignoring what I explaining or cant understand
I wrote I see most nb's at all have this 20k+ health and this is also their problem with undodgable/blockable sorc burst

and like @DDuke said sorc easier than nb is sitting under 20k health because of shields
what I see on bg's or on cyro its that more nb's have 20k+ than sorcs sitting behind their shields

and also all nb burst is blockable, dodgable, you can dodge burst opener - incap and your problem with nb burst is solved, he need to gain incap again but if you eat this incal its enough to shield/tank for jsut 5 secs of time incap debufss and you are free, you can go again in offense becasue you tanked all nb possible burst

while on sorc uhhh lol? everything except his spammable is unblockable or undodgable and with combined rune cage even blockable/dodgable skill is hitting at full damage (meteor/frags) because with time whiel you wanted to block/dodge this skill you suddenly get uncounterable cc and before break free you eat all damage which you even could block normally

Cfrags> blockable/dodgeable/LOS
Curse> Can be purged/LOS
Pulse>blockable/dodgeable/LOS
Reach>blockable/dodgeable/LOS
Rune>Pots/Break Free/ Prior CC immunity/LOS

we all are sying about single overpowered thing while you desribing almsot every sorc skill about which you dont complain, only mention it with combined op skill and you evn cant provide good enough argument to say this skill isnt op

pots - using other or have cooldown because used another because was needed?

break free...after you eat all damage because while stun just proc on you in sam moment you eat all delayed damage not like nb burst where is going cc, then single skill, break free int hat moment and then 2nd skilla which jsut can be blocked/dodged after this break free with eaten single hit

prior cc immunity, then sorc wont start his burst, he will see you are immune and will wait with his burst

LoS - same can say about everyone other, not only sorc - incap op? if you eat its debuffs jsut LOS dude, whats a problemw ith you? LOS and wait until incap debuffs end

I'm calling an impasse. You are just here to complain because something that was lower in the food chain is chomping on you for a change. With my stam dk I can somehow break rune and not die. Guess I need to go get tested for superpowers or something.

Edziu

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

So...

It's a "Sorcs are A-OK" thread that turned into a "nerf sorcs" thread that quickly turned into a "Nerf nightblades" thread.

Yes. Most of the sh*t posters on here are gankblades running 16k health.

like we see many shitposters here trying to defend sorcs without any good arguments

and no, I myself very very barely see others nb's running with less than 20k health and I see now you comparing me to other gankblades with low health while Im not even gankblade lol

jsut advice from me, learn to read with understanding and dont post nonsense when you are biased and even dont know other side of coin

Every other spec in the game has to have a decent amount of health (>20k) just to survive a nightblade's burst. How is it unreasonable that nightblades have to do the same now? The mere fact that you can be successful with such low health is a testament to how overtuned nightblades are. NIghtblade mains are so blind to this they haven't seen how every other spec has had to evolve just to compensate for that fact throughout this game's history. When you finally get a taste of your own medicine, you whine and call for nerfs. I say it's time for you to evolve just like everyone else. improvise. adapt. overcome.

even dont know what you mean lol, you or ignoring what I explaining or cant understand
I wrote I see most nb's at all have this 20k+ health and this is also their problem with undodgable/blockable sorc burst

and like @DDuke said sorc easier than nb is sitting under 20k health because of shields
what I see on bg's or on cyro its that more nb's have 20k+ than sorcs sitting behind their shields

and also all nb burst is blockable, dodgable, you can dodge burst opener - incap and your problem with nb burst is solved, he need to gain incap again but if you eat this incal its enough to shield/tank for jsut 5 secs of time incap debufss and you are free, you can go again in offense becasue you tanked all nb possible burst

while on sorc uhhh lol? everything except his spammable is unblockable or undodgable and with combined rune cage even blockable/dodgable skill is hitting at full damage (meteor/frags) because with time whiel you wanted to block/dodge this skill you suddenly get uncounterable cc and before break free you eat all damage which you even could block normally

Cfrags> blockable/dodgeable/LOS
Curse> Can be purged/LOS
Pulse>blockable/dodgeable/LOS
Reach>blockable/dodgeable/LOS
Rune>Pots/Break Free/ Prior CC immunity/LOS

we all are sying about single overpowered thing while you desribing almsot every sorc skill about which you dont complain, only mention it with combined op skill and you evn cant provide good enough argument to say this skill isnt op

pots - using other or have cooldown because used another because was needed?

break free...after you eat all damage because while stun just proc on you in sam moment you eat all delayed damage not like nb burst where is going cc, then single skill, break free int hat moment and then 2nd skilla which jsut can be blocked/dodged after this break free with eaten single hit

prior cc immunity, then sorc wont start his burst, he will see you are immune and will wait with his burst

LoS - same can say about everyone other, not only sorc - incap op? if you eat its debuffs jsut LOS dude, whats a problemw ith you? LOS and wait until incap debuffs end

I'm calling an impasse. You are just here to complain because something that was lower in the food chain is chomping on you for a change. With my stam dk I can somehow break rune and not die. Guess I need to go get tested for superpowers or something.

so I guess you will be that exp even on nb with low defense/resists?
if you didnt know nb is similiar "glass cannon" build as magsorc but nb have cloak insted of shieldspam and shield will defend you even if stunned while nb have no active defense under stun

and your impass...have not much to rune cage, its simple rune cage problem making rest skills I will say more op because via rune cage they have guaranteed hard hit if they was normally blockable/dodgable with time to react, with rune cage you dont have time to react if you dont have active defense (high resists/shield up)

Torbschka

Hey,

magicka warden main here, played sorc for 1 BG this patch.

I want to say lol.

Thx and good day.

DDuke

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

So...

It's a "Sorcs are A-OK" thread that turned into a "nerf sorcs" thread that quickly turned into a "Nerf nightblades" thread.

Yes. Most of the sh*t posters on here are gankblades running 16k health.

like we see many shitposters here trying to defend sorcs without any good arguments

and no, I myself very very barely see others nb's running with less than 20k health and I see now you comparing me to other gankblades with low health while Im not even gankblade lol

jsut advice from me, learn to read with understanding and dont post nonsense when you are biased and even dont know other side of coin

Every other spec in the game has to have a decent amount of health (>20k) just to survive a nightblade's burst. How is it unreasonable that nightblades have to do the same now? The mere fact that you can be successful with such low health is a testament to how overtuned nightblades are. NIghtblade mains are so blind to this they haven't seen how every other spec has had to evolve just to compensate for that fact throughout this game's history. When you finally get a taste of your own medicine, you whine and call for nerfs. I say it's time for you to evolve just like everyone else. improvise. adapt. overcome.

That is bs, the entirety of NB burst can be dodged/blocked and last I checked most sorcerers don't stack health at all, they stack magicka & hide behind 30k+ shield stacks while enjoying the benefits of having full offensive stats - so yeah, must be easy to call for others to "adapt"

The only thing you need to stack health/mitigation to survive against atm is Rune Cage - literally everything else in game can be dodged/blocked/outranged.

We've had this conversation already... no need for a repeat. Rune cage has counters end of story. And yes sorcs do care about health because shields aren't the God mode that you claim they are.

If we've had this conversation already, then perhaps you could explain which part of it you did not understand?

This statement for example just baffles me:

Every other spec in the game has to have a decent amount of health (>20k) just to survive a nightblade's burst

I'd be complaining about nightblade burst too if I was unable to survive (or avoid) it with my 18-20k health builds.


Also I've never claimed shields were god mode - I have ways of getting through them, but I'm not guaranteed to do so.

That's what I'd call balance, I fail to see why sorcs should be exempt from that.


Can you imagine if Snipe & Bombard dealt Oblivion damage & killed you through shields? And you'd have to stack 25k+ health & impen to survive it? Yeah, that's the equivalent of what we've got at the moment, if the roles were reversed.

usmguy1234

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

So...

It's a "Sorcs are A-OK" thread that turned into a "nerf sorcs" thread that quickly turned into a "Nerf nightblades" thread.

Yes. Most of the sh*t posters on here are gankblades running 16k health.

like we see many shitposters here trying to defend sorcs without any good arguments

and no, I myself very very barely see others nb's running with less than 20k health and I see now you comparing me to other gankblades with low health while Im not even gankblade lol

jsut advice from me, learn to read with understanding and dont post nonsense when you are biased and even dont know other side of coin

Every other spec in the game has to have a decent amount of health (>20k) just to survive a nightblade's burst. How is it unreasonable that nightblades have to do the same now? The mere fact that you can be successful with such low health is a testament to how overtuned nightblades are. NIghtblade mains are so blind to this they haven't seen how every other spec has had to evolve just to compensate for that fact throughout this game's history. When you finally get a taste of your own medicine, you whine and call for nerfs. I say it's time for you to evolve just like everyone else. improvise. adapt. overcome.

even dont know what you mean lol, you or ignoring what I explaining or cant understand
I wrote I see most nb's at all have this 20k+ health and this is also their problem with undodgable/blockable sorc burst

and like @DDuke said sorc easier than nb is sitting under 20k health because of shields
what I see on bg's or on cyro its that more nb's have 20k+ than sorcs sitting behind their shields

and also all nb burst is blockable, dodgable, you can dodge burst opener - incap and your problem with nb burst is solved, he need to gain incap again but if you eat this incal its enough to shield/tank for jsut 5 secs of time incap debufss and you are free, you can go again in offense becasue you tanked all nb possible burst

while on sorc uhhh lol? everything except his spammable is unblockable or undodgable and with combined rune cage even blockable/dodgable skill is hitting at full damage (meteor/frags) because with time whiel you wanted to block/dodge this skill you suddenly get uncounterable cc and before break free you eat all damage which you even could block normally

Cfrags> blockable/dodgeable/LOS
Curse> Can be purged/LOS
Pulse>blockable/dodgeable/LOS
Reach>blockable/dodgeable/LOS
Rune>Pots/Break Free/ Prior CC immunity/LOS

we all are sying about single overpowered thing while you desribing almsot every sorc skill about which you dont complain, only mention it with combined op skill and you evn cant provide good enough argument to say this skill isnt op

pots - using other or have cooldown because used another because was needed?

break free...after you eat all damage because while stun just proc on you in sam moment you eat all delayed damage not like nb burst where is going cc, then single skill, break free int hat moment and then 2nd skilla which jsut can be blocked/dodged after this break free with eaten single hit

prior cc immunity, then sorc wont start his burst, he will see you are immune and will wait with his burst

LoS - same can say about everyone other, not only sorc - incap op? if you eat its debuffs jsut LOS dude, whats a problemw ith you? LOS and wait until incap debuffs end

I'm calling an impasse. You are just here to complain because something that was lower in the food chain is chomping on you for a change. With my stam dk I can somehow break rune and not die. Guess I need to go get tested for superpowers or something.

so I guess you will be that exp even on nb with low defense/resists?
if you didnt know nb is similiar "glass cannon" build as magsorc but nb have cloak insted of shieldspam and shield will defend you even if stunned while nb have no active defense under stun

and your impass...have not much to rune cage, its simple rune cage problem making rest skills I will say more op because via rune cage they have guaranteed hard hit if they was normally blockable/dodgable with time to react, with rune cage you dont have time to react if you dont have active defense (high resists/shield up)

No because honestly if in played nightblade I'd run truth and bonepirate/ hulking with bloodspawn. You can't blame others for your deaths just because you decide to be squishy. At this point rune is a convenient scapegoat. After it goes away what's next? The same old crusade about shields or are you going to be original for once?

Killset

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Here’s some insight for you sorc fanboys who don’t know PvP outside your endless shield spam.

QQ rants don't equate to insight.

Templars have bad dps compared to other classes, their jabs don’t even land most of the time and literally any player with any form of skill is easily able to dodge and evade the jab spam. All templars are essentially good for is turtling up and block castin BoL which basically makes them into a tank and does no damage. They can hardly kill any good class because they’re so vulnerable on offense you can literally smack a Templar in the face with a burst combo if they’re trying to go in the offensive. Their only form of dps is jabs and PoTL or purifying light combo which is the easiest burst to avoid. If you still cry about magplars being OP you’ve never played a Templar nor do you realize how difficult it is to actually do damage and have decent survivability on one.

Templar is a class that totally shines in a group setting but is very lacking when you run solo. A well played Templar makes a huge difference in a group. A Sorc not so much. You just can't compare the two classes as they function completely different. I'm all for giving Templar their soul back, but that has nothing to do with the OPness of Sorcs.

Magsorcs have the easiest burst in the entire game. I don’t want to hear a stupid argument of “hrrr durrr stam haz their combo ez just Dawnbreaker spin 2 win” first off. You can block and dodge a dawnbreaker. You can block spin to win. Crying about DB spin to win combo is a l2p issue same with dying to a perma jab spammer. You just suck.

The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).

Now back on the topic of sorcs. Rune cage is an uunblockable, undodgeable cc which has a massive range, relatively cheap cost, does a significant amount of damage, and has the longest stun duration. This has no counter play.

3k+ magicka (depending on LA passives) isn't "relatively cheap". Granted, the skill shouldn't have burst damage, but the rest of its functionality is exactly the same as before Summerset (hint: no one complained about it then).

Don’t try and say “get more health” not all builds revolve around having a bunch of health.

I agree on that, but running a low health build is a build decision, and nothing you can complain about. At least that's what Sorcs get told all the time on the topic of Oblivion damage.

Don’t try and say “get more stam, cc break”
In cyrodiil with lag already crazy enough as it is. Most of the time it’s not going to register you spamming your trigger buttons to cc break in time before the trash no skill sorc gives you the ez wombo combo burst.

I believe that's the main issue, and it isn't a Sorc specific one. CC is broken fundamentally in the game, and has been with specific CC skills for years (see Mass Hysteria for that). Fixing CC is the solution then.

In non CP if you’re on a mag. Chances are you’re going to die pretty easily due to the fact that you have almost no stam, cc breaking takes half of it away, that’s not including having to use stam for blocking roll dodging or sprinting on a mag in non cp. so essentially you’re going to be hit with a full sorc burst and you cannot do a single thing about it.

I'm running with 16k stam on my noCP mSorc. Again, it's a conscious build decision if you run with less in favor of having a larger health and mag pool. If you want to know, a Sorc doesn't survive with 10k stam in noCP either.

There’s is no counter play to an undodgeable unblockable cc with huge range. It’s an absolute joke for sorcs. Curse, meteor, rune cage, frags, excecute. Takes no skill and has no counter play. This is isn’t an “l2p” issue. It’s a “sorcs are ignorant af and don’t want their trash no skill builds nerfed or else they’ll cry like the babies they are” issue

Break free and roll dodge. If the 2k to 4k damage Rune Cage does now really kills you, you wouldn't have survived the follow up anyway. The exact same combination was possible before Summerset - without the Rune Cage damage.

Please tell me how endless shield stacking and unblockable Undodgeable cc’s are balanced.

A typical Sorc build without pets or Necro/Shadowrend will be around 40k mag in noCP. Sgield stacking isn't endless if you want to go on the offensive too. And again, Sorcs had undodgeable and unblockable CC before Summerset.

For those who try and argue saying fear and fossilize is Also unblockable and undodgable. First off. They require you to be in MELEE RANGE. Not to mention DK’s don’t have the damage output a sorc does so they can’t burst you down as fast as a sorc can when you’re fossilized. They also both have shorter stun duration and don’t do stupid amounts of damage. Not to mention you can’t just kill them from 41 meters away like you can on a trash sorc.

Melee range isn't a disadvantage if your class kit is built for melee (DK, stamNB). Only ranged magBlade is somewhat disadvantaged with Mass Hysteria, but they run Reach and/or Cripple anyway. As for magDKs damage output I'm not experienced enough to judge it, but the consensus from class mains seems to be that damage isn't the issue magDK has (although whip being dodgeable hurt them a bit).

You leave out the fact that sorc damage was buffed three fold with destro staff counting as 2 set pieces, light attack damage being buffed and Rune doing its damage up front. Arguments like “if the 2-4K damage from Rune killed you, you were going to die anyway” are complete and utter BS. That 2-4K hitting in the same GCD is now more than enough to put you in execute which should already be sitting on you like a ticking time bomb.

40k magic in no cp! How do you endure. I can barely get 30k stamina while still building for all the other things I need to survive the Sorc fest BG’s have become.

Melee isn’t a disadvantage for melee characters If everyone I fought couldn’t damage me until I got within 5 meters of them. Sadly that isn’t the reality of things. The reality of PvP is far different then Sorcs defending their class would have you believe. Arguments like this are comical and anyone who has spent longer than 10 minutes in PvP can see right through it.

The fact that any person can legitimately argue that Sorc is balanced right now boggles my mind. This game needs a lot of changes. They could start with balancing Sorc, nerfing Sloads, nerfing Masters dual wield, nerfing Zaans, nerfing Caluurions, and nerfing the defile CP passive. It would be a good start.

And it was about damn time. Stam has been able to run two 5 piece sets and monster helm for far too long. Now that we can start doing it the tears start falling.

Except Destro line got buffed to hell and back to compensate for it counting as 1 set piece some time back. News flash. Magic could run 5/5/2 also. And so could Sorcs because Lich is a back bar proc. Now they can run things like spinners/lich, 2 piece willpower, 1 domihaus. But it’s hard to take you seriously when you didn’t even know that Mines wasn’t a hard CC. Sorry.

Edziu

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

So...

It's a "Sorcs are A-OK" thread that turned into a "nerf sorcs" thread that quickly turned into a "Nerf nightblades" thread.

Yes. Most of the sh*t posters on here are gankblades running 16k health.

like we see many shitposters here trying to defend sorcs without any good arguments

and no, I myself very very barely see others nb's running with less than 20k health and I see now you comparing me to other gankblades with low health while Im not even gankblade lol

jsut advice from me, learn to read with understanding and dont post nonsense when you are biased and even dont know other side of coin

Every other spec in the game has to have a decent amount of health (>20k) just to survive a nightblade's burst. How is it unreasonable that nightblades have to do the same now? The mere fact that you can be successful with such low health is a testament to how overtuned nightblades are. NIghtblade mains are so blind to this they haven't seen how every other spec has had to evolve just to compensate for that fact throughout this game's history. When you finally get a taste of your own medicine, you whine and call for nerfs. I say it's time for you to evolve just like everyone else. improvise. adapt. overcome.

even dont know what you mean lol, you or ignoring what I explaining or cant understand
I wrote I see most nb's at all have this 20k+ health and this is also their problem with undodgable/blockable sorc burst

and like @DDuke said sorc easier than nb is sitting under 20k health because of shields
what I see on bg's or on cyro its that more nb's have 20k+ than sorcs sitting behind their shields

and also all nb burst is blockable, dodgable, you can dodge burst opener - incap and your problem with nb burst is solved, he need to gain incap again but if you eat this incal its enough to shield/tank for jsut 5 secs of time incap debufss and you are free, you can go again in offense becasue you tanked all nb possible burst

while on sorc uhhh lol? everything except his spammable is unblockable or undodgable and with combined rune cage even blockable/dodgable skill is hitting at full damage (meteor/frags) because with time whiel you wanted to block/dodge this skill you suddenly get uncounterable cc and before break free you eat all damage which you even could block normally

Cfrags> blockable/dodgeable/LOS
Curse> Can be purged/LOS
Pulse>blockable/dodgeable/LOS
Reach>blockable/dodgeable/LOS
Rune>Pots/Break Free/ Prior CC immunity/LOS

we all are sying about single overpowered thing while you desribing almsot every sorc skill about which you dont complain, only mention it with combined op skill and you evn cant provide good enough argument to say this skill isnt op

pots - using other or have cooldown because used another because was needed?

break free...after you eat all damage because while stun just proc on you in sam moment you eat all delayed damage not like nb burst where is going cc, then single skill, break free int hat moment and then 2nd skilla which jsut can be blocked/dodged after this break free with eaten single hit

prior cc immunity, then sorc wont start his burst, he will see you are immune and will wait with his burst

LoS - same can say about everyone other, not only sorc - incap op? if you eat its debuffs jsut LOS dude, whats a problemw ith you? LOS and wait until incap debuffs end

I'm calling an impasse. You are just here to complain because something that was lower in the food chain is chomping on you for a change. With my stam dk I can somehow break rune and not die. Guess I need to go get tested for superpowers or something.

so I guess you will be that exp even on nb with low defense/resists?
if you didnt know nb is similiar "glass cannon" build as magsorc but nb have cloak insted of shieldspam and shield will defend you even if stunned while nb have no active defense under stun

and your impass...have not much to rune cage, its simple rune cage problem making rest skills I will say more op because via rune cage they have guaranteed hard hit if they was normally blockable/dodgable with time to react, with rune cage you dont have time to react if you dont have active defense (high resists/shield up)

No because honestly if in played nightblade I'd run truth and bonepirate/ hulking with bloodspawn. You can't blame others for your deaths just because you decide to be squishy. At this point rune is a convenient scapegoat. After it goes away what's next? The same old crusade about shields or are you going to be original for once?

truth is telling you will be in heavy so more tankly, here is going your argument to be invalid
hulking drag is only to max stamina so what would you do? stack max health to insane amount?

bone pirate with hulking still is squishy and bloodspawn as only defensive set doesnt make that bigg difference in damage + this wont proc always on combo

and I decided to make my build based on ddogatacks insted of tank them like every other in heavy or with shields do
and to counter it we have much less defensive, resists, you can hit someone tankly with single target skill for same amount of daamge like you will hit with aoe skill to someone in medium armor
guess why in medium is shuffle for chance to dodge attacks?

you cant go in tankly build going with medium, in medium you will be almost always squishy and thats why mostly only nb's are in medium, because they can reset dodge fatigue cooldown in cloak and be invulnerable until detected while other classes will be still very vulnerable to hits on them without dodging

and btw if you didnt seen before all classes have some more defense options than nb becuase they dont have cloak so they are still visible and need to use something to not die instantly like nb can if he cant use his cloak in open field

Thogard

grannas211 wrote: »

Having a discussion with Stamblade mains is like trying to debate with a toddler.

This is predominantly due to a few outspoken individuals who are obviously not qualified to be weighing in. Put them on forum ignore. There are quite a few good NB posters too but they get drowned out by people who live on the boards.

Killset

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Here’s some insight for you sorc fanboys who don’t know PvP outside your endless shield spam.

QQ rants don't equate to insight.

Templars have bad dps compared to other classes, their jabs don’t even land most of the time and literally any player with any form of skill is easily able to dodge and evade the jab spam. All templars are essentially good for is turtling up and block castin BoL which basically makes them into a tank and does no damage. They can hardly kill any good class because they’re so vulnerable on offense you can literally smack a Templar in the face with a burst combo if they’re trying to go in the offensive. Their only form of dps is jabs and PoTL or purifying light combo which is the easiest burst to avoid. If you still cry about magplars being OP you’ve never played a Templar nor do you realize how difficult it is to actually do damage and have decent survivability on one.

Templar is a class that totally shines in a group setting but is very lacking when you run solo. A well played Templar makes a huge difference in a group. A Sorc not so much. You just can't compare the two classes as they function completely different. I'm all for giving Templar their soul back, but that has nothing to do with the OPness of Sorcs.

Magsorcs have the easiest burst in the entire game. I don’t want to hear a stupid argument of “hrrr durrr stam haz their combo ez just Dawnbreaker spin 2 win” first off. You can block and dodge a dawnbreaker. You can block spin to win. Crying about DB spin to win combo is a l2p issue same with dying to a perma jab spammer. You just suck.

The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).

Now back on the topic of sorcs. Rune cage is an uunblockable, undodgeable cc which has a massive range, relatively cheap cost, does a significant amount of damage, and has the longest stun duration. This has no counter play.

3k+ magicka (depending on LA passives) isn't "relatively cheap". Granted, the skill shouldn't have burst damage, but the rest of its functionality is exactly the same as before Summerset (hint: no one complained about it then).

Don’t try and say “get more health” not all builds revolve around having a bunch of health.

I agree on that, but running a low health build is a build decision, and nothing you can complain about. At least that's what Sorcs get told all the time on the topic of Oblivion damage.

Don’t try and say “get more stam, cc break”
In cyrodiil with lag already crazy enough as it is. Most of the time it’s not going to register you spamming your trigger buttons to cc break in time before the trash no skill sorc gives you the ez wombo combo burst.

I believe that's the main issue, and it isn't a Sorc specific one. CC is broken fundamentally in the game, and has been with specific CC skills for years (see Mass Hysteria for that). Fixing CC is the solution then.

In non CP if you’re on a mag. Chances are you’re going to die pretty easily due to the fact that you have almost no stam, cc breaking takes half of it away, that’s not including having to use stam for blocking roll dodging or sprinting on a mag in non cp. so essentially you’re going to be hit with a full sorc burst and you cannot do a single thing about it.

I'm running with 16k stam on my noCP mSorc. Again, it's a conscious build decision if you run with less in favor of having a larger health and mag pool. If you want to know, a Sorc doesn't survive with 10k stam in noCP either.

There’s is no counter play to an undodgeable unblockable cc with huge range. It’s an absolute joke for sorcs. Curse, meteor, rune cage, frags, excecute. Takes no skill and has no counter play. This is isn’t an “l2p” issue. It’s a “sorcs are ignorant af and don’t want their trash no skill builds nerfed or else they’ll cry like the babies they are” issue

Break free and roll dodge. If the 2k to 4k damage Rune Cage does now really kills you, you wouldn't have survived the follow up anyway. The exact same combination was possible before Summerset - without the Rune Cage damage.

Please tell me how endless shield stacking and unblockable Undodgeable cc’s are balanced.

A typical Sorc build without pets or Necro/Shadowrend will be around 40k mag in noCP. Sgield stacking isn't endless if you want to go on the offensive too. And again, Sorcs had undodgeable and unblockable CC before Summerset.

For those who try and argue saying fear and fossilize is Also unblockable and undodgable. First off. They require you to be in MELEE RANGE. Not to mention DK’s don’t have the damage output a sorc does so they can’t burst you down as fast as a sorc can when you’re fossilized. They also both have shorter stun duration and don’t do stupid amounts of damage. Not to mention you can’t just kill them from 41 meters away like you can on a trash sorc.

Melee range isn't a disadvantage if your class kit is built for melee (DK, stamNB). Only ranged magBlade is somewhat disadvantaged with Mass Hysteria, but they run Reach and/or Cripple anyway. As for magDKs damage output I'm not experienced enough to judge it, but the consensus from class mains seems to be that damage isn't the issue magDK has (although whip being dodgeable hurt them a bit).

You leave out the fact that sorc damage was buffed three fold with destro staff counting as 2 set pieces, light attack damage being buffed and Rune doing its damage up front. Arguments like “if the 2-4K damage from Rune killed you, you were going to die anyway” are complete and utter BS. That 2-4K hitting in the same GCD is now more than enough to put you in execute which should already be sitting on you like a ticking time bomb.

40k magic in no cp! How do you endure. I can barely get 30k stamina while still building for all the other things I need to survive the Sorc fest BG’s have become.

Melee isn’t a disadvantage for melee characters If everyone I fought couldn’t damage me until I got within 5 meters of them. Sadly that isn’t the reality of things. The reality of PvP is far different then Sorcs defending their class would have you believe. Arguments like this are comical and anyone who has spent longer than 10 minutes in PvP can see right through it.

The fact that any person can legitimately argue that Sorc is balanced right now boggles my mind. This game needs a lot of changes. They could start with balancing Sorc, nerfing Sloads, nerfing Masters dual wield, nerfing Zaans, nerfing Caluurions, and nerfing the defile CP passive. It would be a good start.

And of course, NB remains untouched. Because NB, which is currently far above DK, Warden and Temp, will regain solo top position once that pesky sorc competitor has been OHKO'd by the nerf hammer.
Right.

Nightblade has been nerfed as much or more than every class you just mentioned. Sorc has escaped nerfs that other classes have been decimated with. A good example is Dark Deal remaining in the game when every other class had its sustain mechanics trashed. NB is good 1v1. At best. Sorc on the other hand is on a whole new level. But you know that.

Every single Person I play with unanimously agrees the class is brokenly overpowered right now, and this includes Sorc Mains. Every one. This isn’t even a debate anymore amongst people who aren’t grossly biased towards the class. And IF you are a Sorc main and aren’t feeling this, I suggest you YouTube a good Sorc build while the good times last.

usmguy1234

Killset wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Here’s some insight for you sorc fanboys who don’t know PvP outside your endless shield spam.

QQ rants don't equate to insight.

Templars have bad dps compared to other classes, their jabs don’t even land most of the time and literally any player with any form of skill is easily able to dodge and evade the jab spam. All templars are essentially good for is turtling up and block castin BoL which basically makes them into a tank and does no damage. They can hardly kill any good class because they’re so vulnerable on offense you can literally smack a Templar in the face with a burst combo if they’re trying to go in the offensive. Their only form of dps is jabs and PoTL or purifying light combo which is the easiest burst to avoid. If you still cry about magplars being OP you’ve never played a Templar nor do you realize how difficult it is to actually do damage and have decent survivability on one.

Templar is a class that totally shines in a group setting but is very lacking when you run solo. A well played Templar makes a huge difference in a group. A Sorc not so much. You just can't compare the two classes as they function completely different. I'm all for giving Templar their soul back, but that has nothing to do with the OPness of Sorcs.

Magsorcs have the easiest burst in the entire game. I don’t want to hear a stupid argument of “hrrr durrr stam haz their combo ez just Dawnbreaker spin 2 win” first off. You can block and dodge a dawnbreaker. You can block spin to win. Crying about DB spin to win combo is a l2p issue same with dying to a perma jab spammer. You just suck.

The only things that are unblockable in a Sorc burst combo is Rune Cage and Curse. You can block or dodge Frags. You can block or Dodge Wrath/Fury. You can block and dodge Overload. And you can block Meteor (which isn't even a Sorc ultimate).

Now back on the topic of sorcs. Rune cage is an uunblockable, undodgeable cc which has a massive range, relatively cheap cost, does a significant amount of damage, and has the longest stun duration. This has no counter play.

3k+ magicka (depending on LA passives) isn't "relatively cheap". Granted, the skill shouldn't have burst damage, but the rest of its functionality is exactly the same as before Summerset (hint: no one complained about it then).

Don’t try and say “get more health” not all builds revolve around having a bunch of health.

I agree on that, but running a low health build is a build decision, and nothing you can complain about. At least that's what Sorcs get told all the time on the topic of Oblivion damage.

Don’t try and say “get more stam, cc break”
In cyrodiil with lag already crazy enough as it is. Most of the time it’s not going to register you spamming your trigger buttons to cc break in time before the trash no skill sorc gives you the ez wombo combo burst.

I believe that's the main issue, and it isn't a Sorc specific one. CC is broken fundamentally in the game, and has been with specific CC skills for years (see Mass Hysteria for that). Fixing CC is the solution then.

In non CP if you’re on a mag. Chances are you’re going to die pretty easily due to the fact that you have almost no stam, cc breaking takes half of it away, that’s not including having to use stam for blocking roll dodging or sprinting on a mag in non cp. so essentially you’re going to be hit with a full sorc burst and you cannot do a single thing about it.

I'm running with 16k stam on my noCP mSorc. Again, it's a conscious build decision if you run with less in favor of having a larger health and mag pool. If you want to know, a Sorc doesn't survive with 10k stam in noCP either.

There’s is no counter play to an undodgeable unblockable cc with huge range. It’s an absolute joke for sorcs. Curse, meteor, rune cage, frags, excecute. Takes no skill and has no counter play. This is isn’t an “l2p” issue. It’s a “sorcs are ignorant af and don’t want their trash no skill builds nerfed or else they’ll cry like the babies they are” issue

Break free and roll dodge. If the 2k to 4k damage Rune Cage does now really kills you, you wouldn't have survived the follow up anyway. The exact same combination was possible before Summerset - without the Rune Cage damage.

Please tell me how endless shield stacking and unblockable Undodgeable cc’s are balanced.

A typical Sorc build without pets or Necro/Shadowrend will be around 40k mag in noCP. Sgield stacking isn't endless if you want to go on the offensive too. And again, Sorcs had undodgeable and unblockable CC before Summerset.

For those who try and argue saying fear and fossilize is Also unblockable and undodgable. First off. They require you to be in MELEE RANGE. Not to mention DK’s don’t have the damage output a sorc does so they can’t burst you down as fast as a sorc can when you’re fossilized. They also both have shorter stun duration and don’t do stupid amounts of damage. Not to mention you can’t just kill them from 41 meters away like you can on a trash sorc.

Melee range isn't a disadvantage if your class kit is built for melee (DK, stamNB). Only ranged magBlade is somewhat disadvantaged with Mass Hysteria, but they run Reach and/or Cripple anyway. As for magDKs damage output I'm not experienced enough to judge it, but the consensus from class mains seems to be that damage isn't the issue magDK has (although whip being dodgeable hurt them a bit).

You leave out the fact that sorc damage was buffed three fold with destro staff counting as 2 set pieces, light attack damage being buffed and Rune doing its damage up front. Arguments like “if the 2-4K damage from Rune killed you, you were going to die anyway” are complete and utter BS. That 2-4K hitting in the same GCD is now more than enough to put you in execute which should already be sitting on you like a ticking time bomb.

40k magic in no cp! How do you endure. I can barely get 30k stamina while still building for all the other things I need to survive the Sorc fest BG’s have become.

Melee isn’t a disadvantage for melee characters If everyone I fought couldn’t damage me until I got within 5 meters of them. Sadly that isn’t the reality of things. The reality of PvP is far different then Sorcs defending their class would have you believe. Arguments like this are comical and anyone who has spent longer than 10 minutes in PvP can see right through it.

The fact that any person can legitimately argue that Sorc is balanced right now boggles my mind. This game needs a lot of changes. They could start with balancing Sorc, nerfing Sloads, nerfing Masters dual wield, nerfing Zaans, nerfing Caluurions, and nerfing the defile CP passive. It would be a good start.

And it was about damn time. Stam has been able to run two 5 piece sets and monster helm for far too long. Now that we can start doing it the tears start falling.

Except Destro line got buffed to hell and back to compensate for it counting as 1 set piece some time back. News flash. Magic could run 5/5/2 also. And so could Sorcs because Lich is a back bar proc. Now they can run things like spinners/lich, 2 piece willpower, 1 domihaus. But it’s hard to take you seriously when you didn’t even know that Mines wasn’t a hard CC. Sorry.

And you're crying about a class from the viewpoint of the most overloaded class in the entire game. Sorry, but you lost your credibility as soon as you posted.