Sandman929 wrote: »Aoe should be really powerful, but flipside they should damage everyone including yourself.
This is a strange idea, I think AoE should be exactly as it is, less powerful than single target (for the most part), but powerful when used by groups against groups. Friendly fire would be terrible and would make Cyrodiil completely unplayable.
Sandman929 wrote: »Aoe should be really powerful, but flipside they should damage everyone including yourself.
This is a strange idea, I think AoE should be exactly as it is, less powerful than single target (for the most part), but powerful when used by groups against groups. Friendly fire would be terrible and would make Cyrodiil completely unplayable.
Crispen_Longbow wrote: »
Yea true, but then again what's stopping everyone from reporting you for trolling and then getting yourself banned?
Same thing for FPS games with friendly fire; it was really easy to see who was being a jerk and who was being a noob that wasn't being careful, with the jerks being auto banned almost instantly on the good servers.
Friendly fire is the only way to make large scale combat more tactical or just embrace the fact 4v4v4 BGs are the future of ESO PvP.
Crispen_Longbow wrote: »
Yea true, but then again what's stopping everyone from reporting you for trolling and then getting yourself banned?
Same thing for FPS games with friendly fire; it was really easy to see who was being a jerk and who was being a noob that wasn't being careful, with the jerks being auto banned almost instantly on the good servers.
Friendly fire is the only way to make large scale combat more tactical or just embrace the fact 4v4v4 BGs are the future of ESO PvP.
Friendly fire is the way to go in a controlled environment like private matches or on servers with admins present, but it would never work in ESO PVP as it is currently administered.
Joy_Division wrote: »Crispen_Longbow wrote: »
Yea true, but then again what's stopping everyone from reporting you for trolling and then getting yourself banned?
Same thing for FPS games with friendly fire; it was really easy to see who was being a jerk and who was being a noob that wasn't being careful, with the jerks being auto banned almost instantly on the good servers.
Friendly fire is the only way to make large scale combat more tactical or just embrace the fact 4v4v4 BGs are the future of ESO PvP.
I normally agree with pretty much everything you say, but both of these are, well would just kill the game.
Minno, you're a templar (though you've gone Vader rolling stam), exactly how would I use my Reflective Light morph in your 4v4v4 scenario if 2 of my 3 projectiles would hit friendlies? Or as a support build, couldn't use Blazing Spear? Exactly how am I suppose to use my Puncturing Sweeps? Templar skills are clunky enough as it is, putting in such a change would make them unplayable.
And as much as some people may enjoy Battlegrounds, that's fine and I'm glad they get some enjoyment from ESO. But I will uninstall the game when that becomes the PvP norm. They are monotonous, most of the objectives favor avoiding PvPing, I can't stand playing overnerfed classes when the justification for those nerfs are not there with no CP, there is no avoiding the Sload-Zaan-proc-resource poison spam, and the questionable balance in ESO is magnified in such a setting, to say nothing of the PuG vs. pre-mades (which still happens).
If ESO changes so much that it is no longer the game I fell in love with, I won't play it anymore. People may have the best intention of "fixing" ESO, but a lot of times their cures are worse than the disease.
Joy_Division wrote: »Crispen_Longbow wrote: »
Yea true, but then again what's stopping everyone from reporting you for trolling and then getting yourself banned?
Same thing for FPS games with friendly fire; it was really easy to see who was being a jerk and who was being a noob that wasn't being careful, with the jerks being auto banned almost instantly on the good servers.
Friendly fire is the only way to make large scale combat more tactical or just embrace the fact 4v4v4 BGs are the future of ESO PvP.
I normally agree with pretty much everything you say, but both of these are, well would just kill the game.
Minno, you're a templar (though you've gone Vader rolling stam), exactly how would I use my Reflective Light morph in your 4v4v4 scenario if 2 of my 3 projectiles would hit friendlies? Or as a support build, couldn't use Blazing Spear? Exactly how am I suppose to use my Puncturing Sweeps? Templar skills are clunky enough as it is, putting in such a change would make them unplayable.
And as much as some people may enjoy Battlegrounds, that's fine and I'm glad they get some enjoyment from ESO. But I will uninstall the game when that becomes the PvP norm. They are monotonous, most of the objectives favor avoiding PvPing, I can't stand playing overnerfed classes when the justification for those nerfs are not there with no CP, there is no avoiding the Sload-Zaan-proc-resource poison spam, and the questionable balance in ESO is magnified in such a setting, to say nothing of the PuG vs. pre-mades (which still happens).
If ESO changes so much that it is no longer the game I fell in love with, I won't play it anymore. People may have the best intention of "fixing" ESO, but a lot of times their cures are worse than the disease.
Friendly fire is the way to go in a controlled environment like private matches or on servers with admins present, but it would never work in ESO PVP as it is currently administered.
It can work but you all are thinking of instant cast AOE.
This change would have to be locked behind an expensive channel similar to inevitable Det. This way you can interrupt as counter play.
But would be sexy to charge up an AOE channel to then accidently hit your own team because you failed to share or time it correctly in large scale fights. Then we can do away with stupid player versus player seiges.
And in BGs running these abilities would be harder because no one is zerging or in a ball and coordinated single target pressure can only be alleviated by repositioning+healing. Plus the high cost would make it stupid to run, unless you can safely use it.
Friendly fire is the way to go in a controlled environment like private matches or on servers with admins present, but it would never work in ESO PVP as it is currently administered.
It can work but you all are thinking of instant cast AOE.
This change would have to be locked behind an expensive channel similar to inevitable Det. This way you can interrupt as counter play.
But would be sexy to charge up an AOE channel to then accidently hit your own team because you failed to share or time it correctly in large scale fights. Then we can do away with stupid player versus player seiges.
And in BGs running these abilities would be harder because no one is zerging or in a ball and coordinated single target pressure can only be alleviated by repositioning+healing. Plus the high cost would make it stupid to run, unless you can safely use it.
I don't see what the difference changing how AEs work would make. I am all for friendly fire, but it would make griefing far too easy in a game with no active administration at all. Plus this game is full of MMO/PVP noobs that would make friendly fire unbearable, even outside of griefing.
In GvG, without a doubt, it would be a huge improvement.
Friendly fire is the way to go in a controlled environment like private matches or on servers with admins present, but it would never work in ESO PVP as it is currently administered.
It can work but you all are thinking of instant cast AOE.
This change would have to be locked behind an expensive channel similar to inevitable Det. This way you can interrupt as counter play.
But would be sexy to charge up an AOE channel to then accidently hit your own team because you failed to share or time it correctly in large scale fights. Then we can do away with stupid player versus player seiges.
And in BGs running these abilities would be harder because no one is zerging or in a ball and coordinated single target pressure can only be alleviated by repositioning+healing. Plus the high cost would make it stupid to run, unless you can safely use it.
I don't see what the difference changing how AEs work would make. I am all for friendly fire, but it would make griefing far too easy in a game with no active administration at all. Plus this game is full of MMO/PVP noobs that would make friendly fire unbearable, even outside of griefing.
In GvG, without a doubt, it would be a huge improvement.
I just like to see the world burn sometimes lol.
Also here's a counter thought, of DMG can't be friendly fire, then why can aoe healing heal your allies
If you don't want to see any organized bigger group again just get rid of Rapids and one of their biggest advantage, their organized mobility and pressure, is lost and they are done
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »If you don't want to see any organized bigger group again just get rid of Rapids and one of their biggest advantage, their organized mobility and pressure, is lost and they are done
All you will see then is the 40-80m faction zerg. But tbh removing rapids would make no difference to organised groups XD
Crispen_Longbow wrote: »Just like all ESO play styles, you have varying degrees of “Ball” groups...
You have the top tier guilds that are very rare, a la “300 Spartans” that requires the entire faction to stack on top of them to stop them.
You have the PVDoor kings that look intimating, with so many numbers, but are more into dance fighting than actual pvp.
You have the "Pug Herders", that are just happy they can get people in the same general area at the same time.
Then you have the majority of "Social Guilds", that aren't really worried about being competitive, but they sure have fun.
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »If you don't want to see any organized bigger group again just get rid of Rapids and one of their biggest advantage, their organized mobility and pressure, is lost and they are done
All you will see then is the 40-80m faction zerg. But tbh removing rapids would make no difference to organised groups XD
Removing rapids will for sure make things harden for a bit. But as ballgroups have always done the last couple years is adapt without. For example, the repentance nerf (no longer giving stam back to friendlies) was a big thing to get used to for quite a while, for DD's but especially for maneuver spammers. But as you can see by the stage of "triggerness" of this post, ballgroups adapted perfectly fine now and will in the future.
Sandman929 wrote: »The only way to beat cooperation and coordination in this game is to punish those things. Removing a skill or making little nerfs here and there won't change anything. As always, I remain confused by people who see effective groups and get upset rather than impressed.
Sandman929 wrote: »The only way to beat cooperation and coordination in this game is to punish those things. Removing a skill or making little nerfs here and there won't change anything. As always, I remain confused by people who see effective groups and get upset rather than impressed.
To be honest, I don't think people are mad at their efficiency.
I'd even dare say that their group format is not the most efficient in a lot of occasions. But then, efficiency scales on what you're aiming to do.
What pisses me off about ball groups is when they act irresponsibly.
Like 2 days ago, their was a tri faction fight at roebeck on vivec EU to try and dethrone AD during prime time. That single fight made the entire server lag, our group knew it was going to be painful so we went to faregyl to try and trigger some ADs so that the roe siege might be over faster.
That roebeck fight lasted over an hour because one red group was farming pugs inside the keep, and was unable to finish the fight and capture. I say unable, but it's most likely unwilling as they were probably having fun farming and they had the perfect situation, last emp keep so yellows would commit 100% to the defense, and the dc zerg was too stupid to capture the rest of the undefended map. So essentially that red group made the whole server unplayable for an hour. Our group logged off because we don't have dedicated healing spring spammers so it's actually game breaking when you need to break free 4 times before you can heal yourself.
Now some will say that's its the DC zerg's fault for stacking up when they could have left the EP capture, to which I respond that the organized groups are the ones with the brains, they should be the ones to act accordingly, and not the light attack spamming cp 140 who has no clue what's going on.
They could have either gone for a fast dethrone and leave to farm AD at their remaining keeps, or let DC capture and farm them afterwards, but no, they had to farm the keep for 1 hour because the AP/hour ratio was more important than having a playable server. And that's when and why ball groups trigger me the most.
Sandman929 wrote: »The only way to beat cooperation and coordination in this game is to punish those things. Removing a skill or making little nerfs here and there won't change anything. As always, I remain confused by people who see effective groups and get upset rather than impressed.
To be honest, I don't think people are mad at their efficiency.
I'd even dare say that their group format is not the most efficient in a lot of occasions. But then, efficiency scales on what you're aiming to do.
What pisses me off about ball groups is when they act irresponsibly.
Like 2 days ago, their was a tri faction fight at roebeck on vivec EU to try and dethrone AD during prime time. That single fight made the entire server lag, our group knew it was going to be painful so we went to faregyl to try and trigger some ADs so that the roe siege might be over faster.
That roebeck fight lasted over an hour because one red group was farming pugs inside the keep, and was unable to finish the fight and capture. I say unable, but it's most likely unwilling as they were probably having fun farming and they had the perfect situation, last emp keep so yellows would commit 100% to the defense, and the dc zerg was too stupid to capture the rest of the undefended map. So essentially that red group made the whole server unplayable for an hour. Our group logged off because we don't have dedicated healing spring spammers so it's actually game breaking when you need to break free 4 times before you can heal yourself.
Now some will say that's its the DC zerg's fault for stacking up when they could have left the EP capture, to which I respond that the organized groups are the ones with the brains, they should be the ones to act accordingly, and not the light attack spamming cp 140 who has no clue what's going on.
They could have either gone for a fast dethrone and leave to farm AD at their remaining keeps, or let DC capture and farm them afterwards, but no, they had to farm the keep for 1 hour because the AP/hour ratio was more important than having a playable server. And that's when and why ball groups trigger me the most.