Discussion About Mend Wounds and Morphs

DisgracefulMind · May 2018

In this post, I'm using the Symbiosis morph of Mend Wounds.

This skill is a great idea, but there are things about it that are really making it hard to even have a desire to slot it.

First, to use the skill, you are sacrificing both powerful enchants on your bars, ult gain, heavy attack restore, and damage. This all would be perfectly fine if there was an adequate return for the sacrifice, which there is not, so far, in my testing of the skill.

Here you see a typical healer weave for trials and such:

https://youtu.be/53NkhmJRKWA

Here is weaving with Symbiosis:

https://youtu.be/ir4YlPAWDdg

As you can see in the second video, the toggle is a bit clunky, but, also, the major factor here, the GCD on the heal ball that you're "weaving" and replacing your light attack with is major and affects rotation in an extremely clunky manner. Watch my 5 button as I try to weave between orbs.

My suggestions to allow this skill to become viable:

1. Remove the GCD on this skill. There is already some extreme sacrifices being made to toggle this skill on, so having the GCD doesn't really make any sense.
2. Allow the animation of the orbs to fire faster as well, so that heals can adequately be put out, as is needed in high damage situations we see in most end-game PvE content.
3. Allow the toggle animation to fire faster. If a non-Templar healer (even a Templar healer) needs to use the heavy beam quickly, the toggle is clunky to put on, it needs to be faster.
4. Perhaps some form of target system for the heavy attack beam. I cannot see a new healer finding it easy at all to target the right person with this beam, even I had a few troubles with it when I tested it in Veteran Cloudrest last night.
5. To add to this, if the GCD is removed and the heal orbs are allowed to fire faster, I suggest some for of smart healing for them. Right now you have to direct them at someone, and while many people argue about smart healing, aiming a single heal ball at someone just isn't viable in any content.

The skill looks and functions the way it is now:

https://youtu.be/We_1TmnWulQ

Some positives to the skills:

1. The toggle only needs to be on one bar. This is INCREDIBLY awesome, and I'm glad to see ZoS go this route with toggles.
2. The heavy attack beam actually does heal for a really good amount and I can see this being used in some situations often IF the skill is fixed up and refined some more.

If anyone has any other suggestions or feedback on the skill, would love to hear them!

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Wrobel

Liofa · May 2018

Increase cost. Half the healing and make the light attacks burst heal. Also fix the weaving. Templars are best because how important emergency burst healing is. This is targeted heal, which can be really unreliable but still can be used in specific fights as a burst heal. I don't think anyone will actually use this in its current state though.

GeneralSezme · May 2018

Do what she says!

Mystrius_Archaion · May 2018

I just find it dumb that it uses resources instead of generating resources from heavy attacks.
You could actually make a dedicated healer if it generated resources.

I also don't see a problem with it being a "non-self targeting" heal generating resources as there is no way you can use it to keep yourself alive forever and beat other players in pvp.

I think it needs 1 of 2 possible changes.

1) It could be a smart heal that targets self or the lowest health group member(without aiming), which it should do the latter anyway, and retain current "uses resources" functionality.

2) It could be an ally only heal as it currently is and generate resources so that it doesn't need to be flicked on and off and on and off every 5 seconds or so for resources since the misguided sustain nerfs with Morrowind.

StoicSunbro · May 2018

First, some quirks or maybe bugs. (I filed a report). Understandable if intended, just unexpected and a tad disappointing

Channeling the heavy attack does not proc Deliberation, the Psijic passive that gives Major Protection while casting or channeling a Psijic Ability (I couldn't seem to proc this passive with any psijic skill, possibly a bug)
The Passive from the Asylum Restoration staff does not lower the cost of this ability
The Light and Heavy attacks do not trigger Warden's Lotus Blossum, which smart heals allies when you light attack or heavy attack.
I haven't tried Night Blades Siphoning Strikes but that could be worth looking into.

I agree with your first two suggestions. Number four could reuse the cyan glow highlight system used by Nature's Grasp and Offering.

I disagree with point 5, the smart heal. It's too dramatic of a rework for a brand new skill. We already have a similar skill Regeneration, that smartly applies single target hots.

Your goal seems to improve Trial usage; Trial Healers sometimes avoid Regeneration, since the smart heal makes group coverage so haphazard and tedious. The light attack in its current form can be applied more precisely to desired targets, mainly the tank.

I do agree with you that this skill, as is, is going to see niche usage in Trials. It could be very popular for vAS Kite Healers, but this is a unique circumstance.

I think the skill in its current form will already see usage in PVP and maybe Dungeons. I don't like fundamently reworking it so early to a smart heal with Trials in mind, and I say that as someone who has spent a bulk of my playtime as a vet trial Healer.

Additionally, I think the skill should give 5% healing done while slotted, which will make it more attractive to slot, even if not regularly in use. Alternatively it could give Minor Mending, a buff for non-Templars.

exeeter702 · May 2018

StoicSunbro wrote: »

First, some quirks or maybe bugs. (I filed a report). Understandable if intended, just unexpected and a tad disappointing
Channeling the heavy attack does not proc Deliberation, the Psijic passive that gives Major Protection while casting or channeling a Psijic Ability (I couldn't seem to proc this passive with any psijic skill, possibly a bug)

The Passive from the Asylum Restoration staff does not lower the cost of this ability

The Light and Heavy attacks do not trigger Warden's Lotus Blossum, which smart heals allies when you light attack or heavy attack.

I haven't tried Night Blades Siphoning Strikes but that could be worth looking into.

I agree with your first two suggestions. Number four could reuse the cyan glow highlight system used by Nature's Grasp and Offering.

I disagree with point 5, the smart heal. It's too dramatic of a rework for a brand new skill. We already have a similar skill Regeneration, that smartly applies single target hots.

Your goal seems to improve Trial usage; Trial Healers sometimes avoid Regeneration, since the smart heal makes group coverage so haphazard and tedious. The light attack in its current form can be applied more precisely to desired targets, mainly the tank.

I do agree with you that this skill, as is, is going to see niche usage in Trials. It could be very popular for vAS Kite Healers, but this is a unique circumstance.

I think the skill in its current form will already see usage in PVP and maybe Dungeons. I don't like fundamently reworking it so early to a smart heal with Trials in mind, and I say that as someone who has spent a bulk of my playtime as a vet trial Healer.

Additionally, I think the skill should give 5% healing done while slotted, which will make it more attractive to slot, even if not regularly in use. Alternatively it could give Minor Mending, a buff for non-Templars.

Well as far as coding goes, i believe the game considers the lights and heavies as attacks and not abilities. Anf since you dont channel or hard cast the actual toggled ability on the bar, it thus does not get the protection passive. Sad life

RoyJade · May 2018

exeeter702 wrote: »

Well as far as coding goes, i believe the game considers the lights and heavies as attacks and not abilities. Anf since you dont channel or hard cast the actual toggled ability on the bar, it thus does not get the protection passive. Sad life

Mend wound seem to ignore every effect affecing light and heavy attack so far (even if it need more testing), so it's not considered light/heavy attack either.
Mend wound and overload LA/HA should both need to be considered as skills.

Rohamad_Ali · May 2018

Awesome and informative post . I agree with the suggestions too .

Lynx7386 · May 2018

It shouldnt use resources, considering you're giving up all of your damage and enchant potential while using it. You should still generate ultimate from light and heavy attacks and resources from heavy attacks while this is toggled on.

DisgracefulMind · May 2018

StoicSunbro wrote: »

First, some quirks or maybe bugs. (I filed a report). Understandable if intended, just unexpected and a tad disappointing
Channeling the heavy attack does not proc Deliberation, the Psijic passive that gives Major Protection while casting or channeling a Psijic Ability (I couldn't seem to proc this passive with any psijic skill, possibly a bug)

The Passive from the Asylum Restoration staff does not lower the cost of this ability

The Light and Heavy attacks do not trigger Warden's Lotus Blossum, which smart heals allies when you light attack or heavy attack.

I haven't tried Night Blades Siphoning Strikes but that could be worth looking into.

I agree with your first two suggestions. Number four could reuse the cyan glow highlight system used by Nature's Grasp and Offering.

I disagree with point 5, the smart heal. It's too dramatic of a rework for a brand new skill. We already have a similar skill Regeneration, that smartly applies single target hots.

Your goal seems to improve Trial usage; Trial Healers sometimes avoid Regeneration, since the smart heal makes group coverage so haphazard and tedious. The light attack in its current form can be applied more precisely to desired targets, mainly the tank.

I do agree with you that this skill, as is, is going to see niche usage in Trials. It could be very popular for vAS Kite Healers, but this is a unique circumstance.

I think the skill in its current form will already see usage in PVP and maybe Dungeons. I don't like fundamently reworking it so early to a smart heal with Trials in mind, and I say that as someone who has spent a bulk of my playtime as a vet trial Healer.

Additionally, I think the skill should give 5% healing done while slotted, which will make it more attractive to slot, even if not regularly in use. Alternatively it could give Minor Mending, a buff for non-Templars.

I noticed the vAS Resto bug as well, forgot to put that in here, thanks for reminding me! I'll put that in the post.

I'm not just thinking with trials in mind, actually. I PvP raid heal 3-4 times a week as well! I think that it's not very viable to point the little ball at someone who needs the heal, you will rarely have the ability to do so in either situation. Regeneration isn't really a smart heal either, as it doesn't often go to the person who needs the heal; I think if we are to use this ability as a toggle and sacrifice light attacks and enchants, the little balls should be a smart heal, the heavy is fine as is, and, yes, perhaps that glow like the warden heal would be a great improvement.

I didn't realize the channel didn't give major protection, with that in mind, I probably won't use that as a kite healer in vAS ): And that's my main role in MC when we do vAS.

The passive 5% healing done would be a fantastic addition to this skill as well, great suggestion.

Tyrobag · May 2018

Fix the jazz hands animation!

ccfeeling · May 2018

Can someone post how this skill run , thank you !
Both morphes if possible

Mudcrabber · May 2018

I've found I can channel it on someone before a duel, and it continues to channel after the duel has started. I don't think it's healing them though, so it's just cosmetic, not an exploit.

I made a low cost, high recovery character to permacast mend wounds, and have been trying to find ways to misuse it.

DisgracefulMind · May 2018

ccfeeling wrote: »

Can someone post how this skill run , thank you !
Both morphes if possible

I can record the other morph, they both look the same and function the same, however. The morph I'm using in these videos is just the higher healing one.

The third video shows what it looks like.

DisgracefulMind · May 2018

Mudcrabber wrote: »

I've found I can channel it on someone before a duel, and it continues to channel after the duel has started. I don't think it's healing them though, so it's just cosmetic, not an exploit.

I made a low cost, high recovery character to permacast mend wounds, and have been trying to find ways to misuse it.

Yeah, you can basically channel the beam forever with 1 spell cost infused enchant and 2 recovery on an Altmer Templar healer. I don't want the heavy to be changed, I just think the light attacks need a change. Because who's really going to sit there and stay heavy attacking a target xD

ccfeeling · May 2018

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

Can someone post how this skill run , thank you !
Both morphes if possible

I can record the other morph, they both look the same and function the same, however. The morph I'm using in these videos is just the higher healing one.

The third video shows what it looks like.

Thank you very much !

Sotha_Sil · May 2018

In its current state, I really don't know how we can use this skill... I am in favor of getting resources back from heavy attack. Also, why does it cost magicka ? it could have been funny to have it scale to your highest resource.

Mudcrabber · May 2018

Continuing on trying to abuse it, I managed to permacast it on someone so it was constantly healing them (and still consuming magicka) without having to continue heavy attacking, leaving me free to use other abilities.

I started channeling it on them before a duel, and then they forfeited the duel (their idea) while I was still channeling, and the beam remained in effect after I let go.

It's also really easy to get stuck in the channeling animation, when I try to channel it on things I can't, like torchbugs, and my weapon will sometimes disappear.

I've also managed to drain my magicka to zero in a couple seconds on the edge of a line-of-sight obstacle, like it would decide I can start channeling, and instantly abort after deducting the full cost, retrying every tick. Like maybe the ray it tests to start the cast differs from the ray it tests to continue channeling, and there's no cooldown on recasting.

Elusiin · June 2018

Bump because we need this... It made it to live with the global cooldown on light attacks, weaving is so clunky... I can't justify using this. Also it doesn't count as a healing ability cast... Even though it's an ability... Please ZoS, refine this skill it has so much potential

DisgracefulMind · July 2018

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

Bump because we need this... It made it to live with the global cooldown on light attacks, weaving is so clunky... I can't justify using this. Also it doesn't count as a healing ability cast... Even though it's an ability... Please ZoS, refine this skill it has so much potential

It's really bad ):

Apherius · July 2018

Mend Wounds: Weapon swapping to an ability bar that does not have this ability or its morphs slotted will now toggle the ability off.

Yeah, this is even worse now, #Zoslogic.

StoicSunbro · July 2018

Yeah that change should be reversed ASAP.

It was already niche and needed improvements not a huge negative. I'll probably use it in PVP still but I can't justify bringing it in nearly all PVE content

Oumalakasha · July 2018

Nice post. Bumping for visibility.

Mureel · July 2018

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

In this post, I'm using the Symbiosis morph of Mend Wounds.

Some positives to the skills:

1. The toggle only needs to be on one bar. This is INCREDIBLY awesome, and I'm glad to see ZoS go this route with toggles.
2. The heavy attack beam actually does heal for a really good amount and I can see this being used in some situations often IF the skill is fixed up and refined some more.

If anyone has any other suggestions or feedback on the skill, would love to hear them!

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Wrobel

And they just mess it up in PTS patch notes. Bar swap will deactivate it next patch. ;-/

(Also hi! xD o/)

Tonturri · July 2018

If at all possible, I'd like to be able to use it on myself (healing my character without needing another person around to benefit from one of the morphs)

Clunkiness definitely needs to be looked at.

The morphs are...rather lackluster. The armor buff one is pointless when pretty much every build running around right now has extremely easy access to the major armor buffs (and wardens with their frost armor skill exist). The second morph is just...it feels like they purposefully, and heavily limited the usefulness of the skill just to fill the second morph spot. A passive heal buff (either 5% to stack with other things or Minor Mending because templars can heck off) would be nice for one morph, and uhh...Maybe Minor Protection or 5% reduced incoming dmg when you've got the HoT rolling or channeling a heavy on a target (buff applying to the target)?

Lastly...oh god, please don't make bar swapping turn the thing off. I think ZOS got just one thing right with the skill and that was it...and now they're removing that one thing

Sadness.

Oumalakasha · July 2018

Tonturri wrote: »

If at all possible, I'd like to be able to use it on myself (healing my character without needing another person around to benefit from one of the morphs)

Clunkiness definitely needs to be looked at.

The morphs are...rather lackluster. The armor buff one is pointless when pretty much every build running around right now has extremely easy access to the major armor buffs (and wardens with their frost armor skill exist). The second morph is just...it feels like they purposefully, and heavily limited the usefulness of the skill just to fill the second morph spot. A passive heal buff (either 5% to stack with other things or Minor Mending because templars can heck off) would be nice for one morph, and uhh...Maybe Minor Protection or 5% reduced incoming dmg when you've got the HoT rolling or channeling a heavy on a target (buff applying to the target)?

Lastly...oh god, please don't make bar swapping turn the thing off. I think ZOS got just one thing right with the skill and that was it...and now they're removing that one thing Sadness.

I'm guessing that Symbiosis was their answer to not allowing to be self-castable. I do hope they give the skill some more love though. I want to incorporate it soooo badly.

On a side note: they "fixed" Lotus' interaction with Mend Wounds. Except not really. I was doing some minor testing with it just a bit ago and I can't get the heavy attack heals to proc from it. However, Lotus' light attack heals proc every tick from the HoT. And yes, I tested this with multiple targets. Literally every tick from each player procced its own Lotus Flower LA heal. It was like a symphony when I tested it on a whole group. I can only assume this is unintended, but it was still fun to play with.

I was also trying to test with Symbiosis and I got mixed results; sometimes it procced twice per tick, other times it seemed to only be proccing once (although it could have technically been double-proccing on the same character).

I had originally assumed Lotus Flower's interaction with Mend Wounds was intentionally left out, so I have a bit of hope that they could work on some other interactions, like resource return or even armor set 5 piece procs (only tested Vanus which is SoL still). I wonder how they intend to qualify a Lotus Flower HA proc, since the HA can technically be executed more quickly via Mend Wounds (assuming each tick of MW channel is a HA).

Edit: Elaboration.

capricorn152245ub17_ESO · July 2018

I haven't seen this anywhere yet, but the heal from Symbiosis (on yourself) is getting reduced by Battle Spirit in Cyrodiil, resulting in a double reduction.

The making it a dedicated toggle pretty much slays this ability in my mind now.

DisgracefulMind · July 2018

Mureel wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

In this post, I'm using the Symbiosis morph of Mend Wounds.

Some positives to the skills:

1. The toggle only needs to be on one bar. This is INCREDIBLY awesome, and I'm glad to see ZoS go this route with toggles.
2. The heavy attack beam actually does heal for a really good amount and I can see this being used in some situations often IF the skill is fixed up and refined some more.

If anyone has any other suggestions or feedback on the skill, would love to hear them!

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Wrobel

And they just mess it up in PTS patch notes. Bar swap will deactivate it next patch. ;-/

(Also hi! xD o/)

Hello!

Yes, I agree, this change destroys this skill, pretty much lol. There's almost no room on healer bars as is for all the utility we need to run, so double slotting symbiosis just ruins even a chance to want to run this skill. Not sure why they would even nerf that. /sigh
I had high hopes that they'd fix this skill up, but guess not.