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PvP is what brings players together. We had only 1 PvP Update in 4 years.
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Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's true. I reflected on this the other day. At the start i did every quest slow play. Full on. But Wrothgar was the last thing i went 100% on as switched focus to PvP.
Wrothgar the best chapter... And it was free (;Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
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geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you enjoy PVP then just play it until it totally collapses. It's not going to suddenly get any attention from the devs and it's highly obvious they don't care at all.
I try not to be overly cynical - but, it's hard - i'm old and i'm from new york
however - this statement here is pretty much exactly how I see it...
I don't really put it on the devs though - rather those folks up a little higher on the company's food chain whom are the decision makers and actually control the resources the company has...
but yep, ride it til the wheels fall off...shoot, currently with cyrodiil game performance as it is on the consoles - the vehicle feels like it's missing a whole wheel...PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place0 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭PvE cooperation makes people friends not PvP.
Who lied to you?D: All my friends even the PVE ones I've all met through PVP by helping them out, or by just crap talking / tbagging them. I don't know if you know this but hate tells turn into friend tells ;DDaggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
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Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭Turn Cyrodiil into Battle Royale.
Too big of a map, maybe a smaller section of it then this would be awesome!Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
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DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why would you help each other in PvP? PvP literally means "Player vs. Player". You're supposed to destroy each other! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! (or is maniacal laughter still frowned upon?)
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Rain_Greyraven✭✭✭✭✭It was actually a huge mistake to try and make end game PVP....the devs were told that, they ignored us and had to find out the hard way.
The crux of Elder Scrolls is and always has been the questing and customization of your Character.
PVP is dead because no one wants doom with swords."Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”
― Robert E. Howard
So you want to be a game developer? Here is the best way to go about it.3 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Imperial City was the only PvP update since release.
We want more updates like Imperial City which only focuses on PvPing.
This is a Great game with alot of content and amazing features. But it really needs to focus on bringing PvP players to play the Game.
Gotta disagree. Group PvE has brought me and my friends together more than any PvP ever has.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Ain' bringin' me together.
Also, no real PVP fallacy.
PVP dont sell. It's why the game quickly abandoned said updates aside from battlegrounds.
Mate, every big MMO has PvP in it's endgame. Saying that PvP doesn't sell is madness if you compare how many MMO's have excellent PvP ingame.
Mate, every big MMO which has prioratized PVP as it's driving force has died. Warhammer Online. Shadowbane. It's just a matter of history.
This game prioratized it up until a year in, when it realized that it just wasn't puting in the numbers needed for content production.
Disbelieve it if you want, call me crazy if you want, but PVP specific MMO's just dont tend to do well.
I actually proposed an idea to make another version of Cyrodil or an entirely new zone that focused on a PvE war against the Daedra.
I go into detail Here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/391396/daedric-war-cyrodil-optional-pve-zone/p10 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I love Elder Scrolls games. Played each since Morrowind for months on end. But only months ... I’ve played ESO for YEARS primarily because of PVP.
Say what you will about skill or lack thereof, it’s still the only game on console that can have battles similar to the size you’d see in Braveheart.
The grandeur of 100 people all battling on the same screen is what keeps me coming back.Edited by THEDKEXPERIENCE on June 12, 2018 8:01PM3 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Ain' bringin' me together.
Also, no real PVP fallacy.
PVP dont sell. It's why the game quickly abandoned said updates aside from battlegrounds.
If we take a closer looks, most popular games right now are PvP games: League of Legends, CSGO, Dota 2, Fortnite, PUBG, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Overwatch etc
So PvP do sell. League and Dota have both PvE and PvP and if you want to do well in those 2 games you have to be good at both PvE (creeps farming) and PvP (combat against players).
We are living in the era which PvP games dominate. Maybe it's just that no PvP MMO has been done right in the past.
The thrill of competing against another player is something very special and you will have players asking for PvP mode in a lot of games. Even Bioware's new IP Anthem, even when Bioware barely has any history with PvP (Mass Effect, Dragonage), there are people requesting PvP mode for Anthem.
@hmsdragonfly
You are correct. PVP does sell. PVP MMO's, do not sell. And that's been shown time and again.
battlegrounds, asymetrical games, hero shooters, these are all forms where PVP is both the central focus and the driving force. These games also distill their gameplay into a few factors, where as PVP in MMO's has layers on layers of variables.
Comparing an MMO to a Battle Royale or a Moba is apples to oranges. Find me a PVP focused MMO that hasn't collapsed under it's own weight within five years. Then you have a case. In the meantime, let me list a few that have died. Shadowbane. Warhammer online. Darkfall online. Dark Age Of Camelot.It is what it is, these games tend to die when the PVP community cannibalizes itself due to the weight of the people on top who have found out how to exploit the system. Contrast with Moba's where teamwork and knowledge of mechanics alone can make the difference, and you will see why these are not fessible examples.
I believe the reason is that no PvP MMO has done PvP correctly. Good PvP games have skill-based gameplay, if there's a way to make an MMO skill-based in term of gameplay, then there's we have a PvP MMO that can sell. Progression can come in the form of gear (items in MOBA games), build (in Dota and LOL, builds play an important role), cosmetics, social rank (to replace level) and maybe some other creative features. It's not that PvP can't sell, it's just that no MMO has done PvP correctly.
And heeeere's the answer I was expecting.
"No true Scotsman" fallacy, also known by a certain political ideologies.
No PVP MMO does PVP right. No, my boy, they did. And they fell to the same horrible truth, that most of these did. That when new players stop coming in, when the 'wolves' (As much as I despise this metaphor) stopped geting people to feed on, they cannibalized themselves, found they didn't like fighting people of same or higher skill-levels, and promptly left.
You want accounts of someone who's played these first hand and holds to almost the same stuff you do @hmsdragonfly check out Nerdslayer on youtube. He's got video's on three of the four MMO's I mentioned, and the 'wolves' bit is almost a direct quote from him.
It isn't that PVP has a 'true' itteration. It's that PVP itself prospers when people get to dominate others. When people get tired of being dominated, PVP dies. It's why PVP isn't sustainable. Because it requires a constant influx of people for the top players to 'feed' on, and the second enough people get a stranglehold on the top, THAT GAMES LIFE IS FINITE. Word spreads. The players stop coming. The same story plays out.
It is, what it is.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on June 12, 2018 8:17PM2 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Ain' bringin' me together.
Also, no real PVP fallacy.
PVP dont sell. It's why the game quickly abandoned said updates aside from battlegrounds.
Without PvP I wouldn't be here years ago. PvP is always my primary target in any MMO.
I'm truly curious, if pvp is your main focus, why do you play mmo's instead of pvp centric games? Mmo pvp is hardly skillful and winning is based on a number of variables. Why not play a truly skillbased game?hmsdragonfly wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Ain' bringin' me together.
Also, no real PVP fallacy.
PVP dont sell. It's why the game quickly abandoned said updates aside from battlegrounds.
If we take a closer looks, most popular games right now are PvP games: League of Legends, CSGO, Dota 2, Fortnite, PUBG, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Overwatch etc
So PvP do sell. League and Dota have both PvE and PvP and if you want to do well in those 2 games you have to be good at both PvE (creeps farming) and PvP (combat against players).
We are living in the era which PvP games dominate. Maybe it's just that no PvP MMO has been done right in the past.
The thrill of competing against another player is something very special and you will have players asking for PvP mode in a lot of games. Even Bioware's new IP Anthem, even when Bioware barely has any history with PvP (Mass Effect, Dragonage), there are people requesting PvP mode for Anthem.
@hmsdragonfly
You are correct. PVP does sell. PVP MMO's, do not sell. And that's been shown time and again.
battlegrounds, asymetrical games, hero shooters, these are all forms where PVP is both the central focus and the driving force. These games also distill their gameplay into a few factors, where as PVP in MMO's has layers on layers of variables.
Comparing an MMO to a Battle Royale or a Moba is apples to oranges. Find me a PVP focused MMO that hasn't collapsed under it's own weight within five years. Then you have a case. In the meantime, let me list a few that have died. Shadowbane. Warhammer online. Darkfall online. Dark Age Of Camelot.It is what it is, these games tend to die when the PVP community cannibalizes itself due to the weight of the people on top who have found out how to exploit the system. Contrast with Moba's where teamwork and knowledge of mechanics alone can make the difference, and you will see why these are not fessible examples.
I believe the reason is that no PvP MMO has done PvP correctly. Good PvP games have skill-based gameplay, if there's a way to make an MMO skill-based in term of gameplay, then there's we have a PvP MMO that can sell. Progression can come in the form of gear (items in MOBA games), build (in Dota and LOL, builds play an important role), cosmetics, social rank (to replace level) and maybe some other creative features. It's not that PvP can't sell, it's just that no MMO has done PvP correctly.
The problem is who decides what is correct? I'm sure if you asked 10 different Pvper's what their vision is for pvp you'll get 10 different answers.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway0 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Free with ESO+... I still treat this a p2p game.... Lol Sorry I didn't have to pay $40 for it to play the content to get 30+hrs of gameplay... It came with my sub.Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
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For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
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Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why would you help each other in PvP? PvP literally means "Player vs. Player". You're supposed to destroy each other! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! (or is maniacal laughter still frowned upon?)
Makes a challenge better
Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
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The Last Chillrend Empress
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Anne13✭✭✭✭Imperial City was the only PvP update since release.
We want more updates like Imperial City which only focuses on PvPing.
This is a Great game with alot of content and amazing features. But it really needs to focus on bringing PvP players to play the Game.
You joker.... you’ve been on the game since day one of release and still only just above 400cp! You don’t and never have played the game. You do nothing but buy and sell and to make gold for your business transactions with the Chinese -_-
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Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭Imperial City was the only PvP update since release.
We want more updates like Imperial City which only focuses on PvPing.
This is a Great game with alot of content and amazing features. But it really needs to focus on bringing PvP players to play the Game.
You joker.... you’ve been on the game since day one of release and still only just above 400cp! You don’t and never have played the game. You do nothing but buy and sell and to make gold for your business transactions with the Chinese -_-
I have 566 CP and have been here since day 1. I don't group, I rarely leave Cyrodiil and I rarely farm anything to make CP. I have 4.5MILLION enlightened xp…. Soooo /yourcaseDaggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
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Anne13✭✭✭✭That wasn’t directed at you.. you’re not well known on the PS4 Eu server for dodgy business are you? With 3 PS4’s. 30 alternate accounts and 30 trade guilds0
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Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭That wasn’t directed at you.. you’re not well known on the PS4 Eu server for dodgy business are you? With 3 PS4’s. 30 alternate accounts and 30 trade guilds
Shoot I wish, but I have better standards (; Like not getting that console.
I kid, I kid! But that's shady hahaDaggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
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hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Ain' bringin' me together.
Also, no real PVP fallacy.
PVP dont sell. It's why the game quickly abandoned said updates aside from battlegrounds.
If we take a closer looks, most popular games right now are PvP games: League of Legends, CSGO, Dota 2, Fortnite, PUBG, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Overwatch etc
So PvP do sell. League and Dota have both PvE and PvP and if you want to do well in those 2 games you have to be good at both PvE (creeps farming) and PvP (combat against players).
We are living in the era which PvP games dominate. Maybe it's just that no PvP MMO has been done right in the past.
The thrill of competing against another player is something very special and you will have players asking for PvP mode in a lot of games. Even Bioware's new IP Anthem, even when Bioware barely has any history with PvP (Mass Effect, Dragonage), there are people requesting PvP mode for Anthem.
@hmsdragonfly
You are correct. PVP does sell. PVP MMO's, do not sell. And that's been shown time and again.
battlegrounds, asymetrical games, hero shooters, these are all forms where PVP is both the central focus and the driving force. These games also distill their gameplay into a few factors, where as PVP in MMO's has layers on layers of variables.
Comparing an MMO to a Battle Royale or a Moba is apples to oranges. Find me a PVP focused MMO that hasn't collapsed under it's own weight within five years. Then you have a case. In the meantime, let me list a few that have died. Shadowbane. Warhammer online. Darkfall online. Dark Age Of Camelot.It is what it is, these games tend to die when the PVP community cannibalizes itself due to the weight of the people on top who have found out how to exploit the system. Contrast with Moba's where teamwork and knowledge of mechanics alone can make the difference, and you will see why these are not fessible examples.
I believe the reason is that no PvP MMO has done PvP correctly. Good PvP games have skill-based gameplay, if there's a way to make an MMO skill-based in term of gameplay, then there's we have a PvP MMO that can sell. Progression can come in the form of gear (items in MOBA games), build (in Dota and LOL, builds play an important role), cosmetics, social rank (to replace level) and maybe some other creative features. It's not that PvP can't sell, it's just that no MMO has done PvP correctly.
And heeeere's the answer I was expecting.
"No true Scotsman" fallacy, also known by a certain political ideologies.
No PVP MMO does PVP right. No, my boy, they did. And they fell to the same horrible truth, that most of these did. That when new players stop coming in, when the 'wolves' (As much as I despise this metaphor) stopped geting people to feed on, they cannibalized themselves, found they didn't like fighting people of same or higher skill-levels, and promptly left.
You want accounts of someone who's played these first hand and holds to almost the same stuff you do @hmsdragonfly check out Nerdslayer on youtube. He's got video's on three of the four MMO's I mentioned, and the 'wolves' bit is almost a direct quote from him.
It isn't that PVP has a 'true' itteration. It's that PVP itself prospers when people get to dominate others. When people get tired of being dominated, PVP dies. It's why PVP isn't sustainable. Because it requires a constant influx of people for the top players to 'feed' on, and the second enough people get a stranglehold on the top, THAT GAMES LIFE IS FINITE. Word spreads. The players stop coming. The same story plays out.
It is, what it is.
If the problem is PvP itself, why are PvP games are the most popular right now?
People feed in League. People feed in Dota. People feed in CSGO. It's not like those games don't have "wolves" who farm players of lower skill level to reach to the top. It's actually the opposite, the skill gap between good players and bad players in those games are even wider. Why are these games so popular?
It's easy, it's the thrill to compete against other players is something else, for some it's more fun than farming brainless bots. Sure, you might suck at the game, but as you play, you see a constant improvments in your own gameplay, while they are small, the progress is there and it's exciting to see yourself improving.
Low rank League players make up for the majority of League playerbase, as in, people who get farmed by smurfs continue to be the largest part of the game's population, in othe words, people don't get discouraged too easy when they find out that they are not good, in fact it only encourages them to git gud.
One thing BG can be a breath of fresh air if done correctly is the MMR system. PvP is most fun when you get to compete against players of the same skill level, that's why competitive games are so popular right now. Farming noobs is fun for a few hours, sure, but it isn't the thing that keeps you coming back. Playing against players on your same level of skills does, and it fixes many problems with PvP in an MMO: let wolves fight wolves, let sheep fight sheep.
Since we are talking about dying games, isn't it obvious that MMO is one of the dying genres right now? If what you say are true, PvP isn't what MMOs need and PvE is the best to go, so if most MMOs are PvE focused, why MMO is still dying and none of these PvE-focused games can save the MMO genre? We are living in an era where the taste of the audience is different that what it used to be 10 years ago, if MMO as a genre refuses to adapt and sturbbornly continues to follow the same path of failure, the genre will die before you know it.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Battlegrounds?
As long as zos does not offer the choice to play cp or nonCP or removes one of the modes entirely it´s not really a valid point. One of the reasons why battlegrounds don´t work is that zos artificially devided their playerbase with cp + noncp and people are very adamant on staying out of the gamemode they dislike.
Everyone i play with does not touch battlegrounds bc they´re nonCP and the ranking/rewards are purely based on bgs played instead of competence.
But then lets just reword the title of the topic to AvA? @reguvin - if you reword the title to AvA you´ll get rid of the battleground arguments.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Someone said, not going to quote them but why do you play a mmo if you love pvp and not just play a pvp game.
For me and a ton of players we like both I love pve dungeons farming making gold but you need a break from that or the game gets boring. Before you know it ur taking a break waiting for the next dlc to come out to have fun again.
PvP is that fun filler that you do in between dlcs chapters. It's the end game when you did everything it's the fun you have with as many people or as solo. It's the icing on top of the cake. The best part is there is so many ways to play pvp in an open world AvAvA map you dont need to zerg. I have met so many awesome people from pvp and made some of the closest friends and rivals from it. I think rivals or even better then friends.
I think an mmo with no pvp would just be boring and would never play one without it more options for people to enjoy the game is a great thing.Edited by FloppyTouch on June 13, 2018 6:37AM0 -
Anzriel✭✭✭✭Honestly for a pvp MMO to succeed you'd basically just have to build it from the ground up focusing around pvp with only a bit of pve to supplement when people get bored/burnt out on pvping constantly. It being skill based is also pretty important, one of the things that can hurt pvp in an MMO is having to grind/quest in an MMO until you're leveled and geared enough to even pvp.
ESO wouldn't work being PvP centric imo, too much gear that carries and CP grind, but that doesn't mean you can't improve things in Cyrodiil. First and foremost they need to find a way to improve performance of the servers. While imbalance and cheesy gearsets hurt pvp, it could survive cheese and be enjoyable if it didn't turn into a slideshow. Combat in ESO is on the slow side, but it's still reasonably complex and enjoyable when it actually operates properly. Next they would need to work on how hard gear carries people. As it is now it's extremely difficult to fight as a smaller group, even if you're fighting potatoes because of how some gear sets carry. Skill should be important in pvp, it should be the number 1 factor yet as it stands now I feel it's basically the least important factor. Honestly with just those two changes I feel pvp would at least get significantly healthier than it is now. PvP doesn't need to be the "main" focus, but it can be improved. It doesn't even need to take anything from pve. I'd prefer to keep the PvP in Cyrodiil/BGs and off the forums personally.0
