PvP is what brings players together. We had only 1 PvP Update in 4 years.

reguvin

Imperial City was the only PvP update since release.

We want more updates like Imperial City which only focuses on PvPing.

This is a Great game with alot of content and amazing features. But it really needs to focus on bringing PvP players to play the Game.

Jake1576

It is true without pvp many would leave the game it doesn't get the respect it deserves with updates and fixes this is especially true for console players pvp is trash right now on ps4 and is unplayable pvp should be one of the main focuses in my opinion

DuskMarine

Jake1576 wrote: »

It is true without pvp many would leave the game it doesn't get the respect it deserves with updates and fixes this is especially true for console players pvp is trash right now on ps4 and is unplayable pvp should be one of the main focuses in my opinion

alot of people dont go into pvp to actually pvp fyi. those pops mean jack..........

Tasear

Battlegrounds?

reguvin

DuskMarine wrote: »

Jake1576 wrote: »

It is true without pvp many would leave the game it doesn't get the respect it deserves with updates and fixes this is especially true for console players pvp is trash right now on ps4 and is unplayable pvp should be one of the main focuses in my opinion

alot of people dont go into pvp to actually pvp fyi. those pops mean jack..........

Cyrodiil was never meant for PvP (Zergs, zergs). Now on the other hand Imperial City was real PvP.

Doctordarkspawn

Ain' bringin' me together.

Also, no real PVP fallacy.

PVP dont sell. It's why the game quickly abandoned said updates aside from battlegrounds.

reguvin

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Ain' bringin' me together.

Also, no real PVP fallacy.

PVP dont sell. It's why the game quickly abandoned said updates aside from battlegrounds.

Mate, every big MMO has PvP in it's endgame. Saying that PvP doesn't sell is madness if you compare how many MMO's have excellent PvP ingame.

DuskMarine

reguvin wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

Jake1576 wrote: »

It is true without pvp many would leave the game it doesn't get the respect it deserves with updates and fixes this is especially true for console players pvp is trash right now on ps4 and is unplayable pvp should be one of the main focuses in my opinion

alot of people dont go into pvp to actually pvp fyi. those pops mean jack..........

Cyrodiil was never meant for PvP (Zergs, zergs). Now on the other hand Imperial City was real PvP.

no real pvp was the overland that was the "real" pvp as you say. imperial city was your money and armor farm no one goes in there to pvp ever period.

Doctordarkspawn

reguvin wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Ain' bringin' me together.

Also, no real PVP fallacy.

PVP dont sell. It's why the game quickly abandoned said updates aside from battlegrounds.

Mate, every big MMO has PvP in it's endgame. Saying that PvP doesn't sell is madness if you compare how many MMO's have excellent PvP ingame.

Mate, every big MMO which has prioratized PVP as it's driving force has died. Warhammer Online. Shadowbane. It's just a matter of history.

This game prioratized it up until a year in, when it realized that it just wasn't puting in the numbers needed for content production.

Disbelieve it if you want, call me crazy if you want, but PVP specific MMO's just dont tend to do well.

TheMessengerOfDeath

PVP is very low in numbers compared to PVE but both are low compared to the amount of players who just mess around and idol around talking to their friends all day.

AlienatedGoat

reguvin wrote: »

Imperial City was the only PvP update since release.

We want more updates like Imperial City which only focuses on PvPing.

This is a Great game with alot of content and amazing features. But it really needs to focus on bringing PvP players to play the Game.

Gotta disagree. Group PvE has brought me and my friends together more than any PvP ever has.

MrSensible

Battlegrounds are fantastic. Small scale pvp is where the game should focus. Cyrodiil is just not fun. It's rarely a matter of skill and more often a matter of "Did my side have more people?" You capture a keep then rush to another, only to find the one you just captured has been retaken. Should drop Cyro pvp altogether and turn the zone into a big Adventure Zone or split it up into 9 smaller battleground zones.

Healthy games require a mixture of pvp and pve focus. PVP should never be the #1 priority in an MMO, as much as I wish it could. It simply isn't economically viable. It costs too many resources to balance and maintain vs. the number of people who are interested in. But that doesn't mean it should be forgotten altogether.

Cyro sucks. Battlegrounds good. Flame on.

Emmagoldman

There is a large enough membership to warrent more attention and eso would considerably do worse without its player base. We also shouldnt lump everyone as a diehard pver or pvper as there a tons of people in between. For diehard pvers, its probably more productive to let pvp centered players voice concerns. I usually sit out convos on trials because I only fill in if a guild needs someone.

As far as bgs and duels, bgs have been good, but not enough. Most pvpers I know feel the same way. Cyrodill needs new features, objectives, siege weapons. Id also like to see small pvp zones in the open world with objectives that grant bonuses in zone

I hope the devs have something to offer and as far as ic, there have been so many low hanging fruit ideas that would make it even better.

As far as zerg vs zerg, that will always be there and some people like big fights.

mav1234

Incredibly disappointing that PvP doesn't even get mentioned in major release events at all.

Heimpai

You know what pushed me away from pve? Everyone saying you need 40k+ dps yet my best was 19k...soo i tried pvp and hated it, then went to cyrodil and loved it

Race changed from redguard to woodelf, goodbye pve, once i get better at pvp I’ll try the other types of it again

Yes i was on the verge of quitting the game and would have if not for pvp

FloppyTouch

Phage wrote: »

reguvin wrote: »

Imperial City was the only PvP update since release.

We want more updates like Imperial City which only focuses on PvPing.

This is a Great game with alot of content and amazing features. But it really needs to focus on bringing PvP players to play the Game.

Gotta disagree. Group PvE has brought me and my friends together more than any PvP ever has.

It's a small group tbh in pve 4 man stuff or 12 man trials, pvp is massive amounts of players playing together.

I find most pve players play solo like this is an rpg. The bigger player base is the questers exploring taking their time and might do a 4 man here an there. End game pve trials is even smaller then the pvp player base. Maybe 3-4 guilds even compete for scores. In pvp you have 3-4 guild on each faction making 9-12 guilds of 24+ groups fighting it out.

So his point is very much true pvp brings more players together.

G1Countdown

I want to see exactly ZERO PVP DLCs or Chapters. ZERO. They need to fix the servers to handle PVP first. It's a disaster. Then we can talk about PVP DLC or Chapters.

Emmagoldman

@G1Countdown depends on what you play, sounds like ps4 or xbox. What if I said, its being looked into

G1Countdown

@Emmagoldman If you said it was being looked into I would say I'll believe it when I see it. Guess I'm a skeptic. I'm not even a big pvp'er. It's just hard to get into it with the current conditions and I know my conditions are better than the ones I read about.

Emmagoldman

@G1Countdown yeah, it sounds pretty horrible i hope they find a fix!

MakoFore

PVP sells- ESO pvp dosent sell- because the servers are trash. a year ago we had 6 campaigns- half of which were full most nights. the eso population is growing yet cyro pvp is shrinking it would seem. i wish they would put some work into it- but now the games midway thru its life cycle- there business model has shifted to milk as much money out of players with lifestyle *** and pve- not looking back to address old content- and keep the crowns, costumes and questing stuff pumping- which does sell- and to keep pvp amused/diustracted with motifs and lame rewards.
its a shame cos pvp in this game should and could be awesome with good servers and some balance.

MaxwellC

Yeah brings players together for frustration like damn; You just end up in slideshows 90% of the time during prime-time or high population.

SirAxen

I enjoy PVP from time to time myself. However, to say it is the crux of ESO is dumb.

kichwas

reguvin wrote: »

But it really needs to focus on bringing PvP players to play the Game.

The MMO industry is littered with the ashes of failed PvP-centric MMOs. ALMOST every single successful MMO in the western market has been PvE centric.

Warhammer is the most telling example of what goes wrong when you focus on PvP, but it's not alone.

Far from bringing players together, PvP tends to create petty hostilities and negative communities. It's brings in players with the mindset of games like the League of Legends community, and changes existing players conduct to match.

MMOs need to find a way to divest themselves of PvP, to reduce toxicity and attract more lore and roleplay focused players. Western players tend to focus on 'light raiding' (not the hardcore style that caused Wildstar to fail, but the 'casual that pretends to be hardcore that has held up WoW for so many years), casual PvE you can do in short bursts, fashion-play, lore that hey can obsess over, and often roleplay - every MMO in the west seems to gather a huge fanbase of roleplayers that then get soundly and utterly ignored by the developers...

Western players, as a larger whole; seem to prefer their PvP be in Mobas and FPS games: where toxic community has no 'other side of the game' to infest.

Eastern players... I'm not sure either way. I'd have to look at how popular something like 'Black Desert' (with forced PvP) is in the East. It has held in the west - so a PvP based MMO can work here, just not as a top tier game...
- I know the Eastern MMOs I know best, FFXIV and Blade and Soul - seem to be mostly PvE based (then again I haven't gotten to Blade and Soul endgame). FFXIV's PvP is so underfocused it was basically tacked on after the fact and then, largely ignored... But both of these are NOT top tier games in the East. FFXIV is maybe the #2 or #3 MMO in the west though (this depends on whether or not you let WoW count it's Chinese players, and let FFXIV count their Japanese players - when arguing how strong they are in the west. Remove WoW's Chinese players and it becomes a likely smaller game than ESO... But most of FFXIV's players are NOT Japanese).
- The top tier game in the East is Lineage, which I know almost nothing about...

Maryal

IC was not a pvp dlc -- it was a hybrid. We've never been given a pvp dlc for this game.

Originally, entry into IC could have been locked to the exclusion of the others by control of the map (that's why the sewer icons on the map look like keyholes). Having exclusive entry to IC meant the 'controlling faction' would have the opportunity to farm, do the quest lines, or whatever ... as a pve zone (so long as map control was maintained). Obviously, when map control was lost, chaos would ensue as one or both of the other factions could gain entry to IC -- opening it up for pvp action. This would have resulted in IC 'as a pve zone' (due to faction exclusivity) and IC 'as a pvp zone' cycling. Granted, it would have been a rather chaotic cycle, but that would have been part of the fun. In theory, it would have been a win-win for pvp'ers and pve'ers alike.

It was a great idea, but during beta too many people complained that it would be unfair to pay for a dlc that, potentially, you couldn't play (or would be locked out of) for periods of time. So, that feature was scrapped during beta.

When faction controlled entry was scrapped during beta -- it was scrapped before the feature was 'turned on' in beta ... meaning, it was scrapped before anyone had a chance to actually experiment with the feature. It's important to note that the decision was based on a lot of hyperbole 'what if' qq'ing.

In hindsight, was scrapping the feature a good decision for the longevity of IC or for the benefit of pvp as a whole? Interesting to think about.

When IC initially released, the sewers were where most pve players went and was considered the 'care bears' portion of IC and the districts were where the hard-core pvp'ers went (a fact emphasized by many content creators at the time). Obviously there was some ganking in the sewers, but it was minimal when IC was first released. Things went downhill when the pvp'ers returned to Cyrodiil (why this happened is not discussed here to keep this post short). With no real pvp action, the IC pvp stragglers turned to their newly found past-time - sewer ganking. That caused the pve population in the sewers to steadily decline. Ironically, IC is now mostly empty and many people qq about that.

It's too bad that faction controlled entry was scrapped - IMO, that one change triggered IC's downward spiral which eventually lead to the current (mostly empty) status of IC.

So, I take issue with people claiming that IC was a pvp dlc, because it wasn't ... it was a hybrid. I do hope that someday they release a dlc that is purely pvp.

Miswar

Bethesda just announcent Fallout 76. Thus ZoS keep screwing the PvP things its goodbye to ESO.

Thats coming out on november 14th.

hmsdragonfly

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Ain' bringin' me together.

Also, no real PVP fallacy.

PVP dont sell. It's why the game quickly abandoned said updates aside from battlegrounds.

If we take a closer looks, most popular games right now are PvP games: League of Legends, CSGO, Dota 2, Fortnite, PUBG, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Overwatch etc

So PvP do sell. League and Dota have both PvE and PvP and if you want to do well in those 2 games you have to be good at both PvE (creeps farming) and PvP (combat against players).

We are living in the era which PvP games dominate. Maybe it's just that no PvP MMO has been done right in the past.

The thrill of competing against another player is something very special and you will have players asking for PvP mode in a lot of games. Even Bioware's new IP Anthem, even when Bioware barely has any history with PvP (Mass Effect, Dragonage), there are people requesting PvP mode for Anthem.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Sometimes I like to PVP, and sometimes I like to pick flowers. There you go.

Zardayne

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

reguvin wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Ain' bringin' me together.

Also, no real PVP fallacy.

PVP dont sell. It's why the game quickly abandoned said updates aside from battlegrounds.

Mate, every big MMO has PvP in it's endgame. Saying that PvP doesn't sell is madness if you compare how many MMO's have excellent PvP ingame.

Mate, every big MMO which has prioratized PVP as it's driving force has died. Warhammer Online. Shadowbane. It's just a matter of history.

This game prioratized it up until a year in, when it realized that it just wasn't puting in the numbers needed for content production.

Disbelieve it if you want, call me crazy if you want, but PVP specific MMO's just dont tend to do well.

Shadowbane was bug riddled from the start. That would be hard for any PVP or PVE game to survive.

I enjoyed Warhammer and there were a lot of people still playing when EA pulled the plug. There's still enough interest in it that there are private servers kicking.

Daoc was doing great until they dropped Trials of Atlantis on us and turned our PVP focused gem into a damn PVE grindfest with the artifacts...

There's some big PVP crowdfunded games coming in Camelot Unchained and Crowfall so there's definitely interest out there.

There's room for both PVE and PVP in MMOs. Before ESO was released they were showing all kind of rvr footage trying to draw back in that Daoc/War crowd with Firor's name thrown out there. I feel they should put a little more effort into the PVP front. It's the least they can do for luring those folks in, and there's a lot of them in case you haven't been out to Cyrodiil lately. I play both PVP and PVE and I'd like to see more.

hmsdragonfly

kichwas wrote: »

reguvin wrote: »

But it really needs to focus on bringing PvP players to play the Game.

The MMO industry is littered with the ashes of failed PvP-centric MMOs. ALMOST every single successful MMO in the western market has been PvE centric.

Warhammer is the most telling example of what goes wrong when you focus on PvP, but it's not alone.

Far from bringing players together, PvP tends to create petty hostilities and negative communities. It's brings in players with the mindset of games like the League of Legends community, and changes existing players conduct to match.

MMOs need to find a way to divest themselves of PvP, to reduce toxicity and attract more lore and roleplay focused players. Western players tend to focus on 'light raiding' (not the hardcore style that caused Wildstar to fail, but the 'casual that pretends to be hardcore that has held up WoW for so many years), casual PvE you can do in short bursts, fashion-play, lore that hey can obsess over, and often roleplay - every MMO in the west seems to gather a huge fanbase of roleplayers that then get soundly and utterly ignored by the developers...

Western players, as a larger whole; seem to prefer their PvP be in Mobas and FPS games: where toxic community has no 'other side of the game' to infest.

Eastern players... I'm not sure either way. I'd have to look at how popular something like 'Black Desert' (with forced PvP) is in the East. It has held in the west - so a PvP based MMO can work here, just not as a top tier game...
- I know the Eastern MMOs I know best, FFXIV and Blade and Soul - seem to be mostly PvE based (then again I haven't gotten to Blade and Soul endgame). FFXIV's PvP is so underfocused it was basically tacked on after the fact and then, largely ignored... But both of these are NOT top tier games in the East. FFXIV is maybe the #2 or #3 MMO in the west though (this depends on whether or not you let WoW count it's Chinese players, and let FFXIV count their Japanese players - when arguing how strong they are in the west. Remove WoW's Chinese players and it becomes a likely smaller game than ESO... But most of FFXIV's players are NOT Japanese).
- The top tier game in the East is Lineage, which I know almost nothing about...

You are acting like hardcore PvEers aren't toxic. "OMG ONLY 20K DPS? YOU SUCK LOL", "OMG ARE YOU USING A 2H IN A DUNGEON? GET OUT". "OMG, CP300? DON'T QUEUE FOR DUNGEON". "OMG HEALER CAN YOU EVEN HEAL?"

And I haven't touched the competitive raiding scene lol.

Gaming communities are all toxic. That's what YOU and I have to live with.

Kel

G1Countdown wrote: »

I want to see exactly ZERO PVP DLCs or Chapters. ZERO. They need to fix the servers to handle PVP first. It's a disaster. Then we can talk about PVP DLC or Chapters.

I wonder if Timestop is causing lag in Cyrodiil. It's just bubble after bubble after bubble...it's way overused and so many animations on top of all the proc animations can't be good for server stability.

Look at all these bubbles going off...

https://youtu.be/jYZ9o42gwdg