PvP is what brings players together. We had only 1 PvP Update in 4 years.

Tandor · June 2018

Given how critical PvPers are of every new PvP initiative ZOS introduce, whether it be IC, dueling or battlegrounds, and how they constantly complain that Cyrodiil is permanently unplayable, I'm amazed that any PvPers should still want more.

Sygil05 · June 2018

darkstar2084 wrote: »

someone enlighten me they have cyrodil, imperial city and now battlegrounds. What else do you think they could do for a pvp DLC? I cant really think of anything

That's like saying PVE already has dungeons, trials, and quests in various cities across the map, why release any DLC at all?

Most of us aren't game designers, which is why we pay someone else to come up with ideas to implement into the game to make PVP more enjoyable. Just because you're not able to come up with anything doesn't mean there aren't good ideas waiting out there for future releases.

Unfortunately, ZOS makes their money off the crown store, and PVP updates aren't going to help with their bottom line. My guess is we'll continue to see little tweaks to PVP this year, but no major changes of any sort.

Ragnarock41 · June 2018

Bruccius wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

reguvin wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Ain' bringin' me together.

Also, no real PVP fallacy.

PVP dont sell. It's why the game quickly abandoned said updates aside from battlegrounds.

Mate, every big MMO has PvP in it's endgame. Saying that PvP doesn't sell is madness if you compare how many MMO's have excellent PvP ingame.

Mate, every big MMO which has prioratized PVP as it's driving force has died. Warhammer Online. Shadowbane. It's just a matter of history.

This game prioratized it up until a year in, when it realized that it just wasn't puting in the numbers needed for content production.

Disbelieve it if you want, call me crazy if you want, but PVP specific MMO's just dont tend to do well.

This reminds me how people in early 2000's called f2p games are trash and all pay to win etc, and People in general said f2p games all should be avoided like a plague. And I used to agree.

Then games like dota 2, league, warframe , guild wars 2, and lately fortnite, changed the gaming world and showed us that making a free to play game that benefits EVERYONE, can still be done, without shady , greedy cash shops and other pay to win elements.

Now why this is important? Cause I believe PvP based MMOs are the same way. It can be done, Its just that developers don't do it correctly. The top 5 most played games on steam right now are all PvP based games for example(ESO is 28th on that same list as of right now.)

https://store.steampowered.com/stats/?

This shows the fact that people actually prefer PvP games. So whats my point?

My point is, PvP isn't the reason why the PvP MMOs are failing. Its something else. But I don't want to throw *** at zenimax so I'll keep it short. One day eventually we will have a proper , PvP based MMO, with great RvR. I don't know which game it will be, but I know if such a game ever comes out, cyrodiil will probably become a ghost town.

Games created solely for PvP cannot be compared to an MMO. The playerbase is entirely different.

Oh how wrong you are my friend. There are sooooo many MMO games that are purely PvP based. MMO does not mean MMORPG. Even some shooters are considered MMOs.

Edit: About the ''different playerbase'' part, there are obviously different groups, but a big chunk of MMORPG gamers are just casuals who are bad at video games, with no taste or standarts. As I said before, they are too busy playing candy crush or clash of clans or whatever shiny garbage is released on the mobile right now, so MMORPGs that tried to grab their money, are suffering as a result.

Jameliel · June 2018

Aesthier wrote: »

reguvin wrote: »

PvP is what one of many things that brings players together. We had only 1 PvP Update in 4 years.

^ fixed for you.

You didn't completely fix it. "brings" should be "bring".... Grammar much?

Jameliel · June 2018

darkstar2084 wrote: »

someone enlighten me they have cyrodil, imperial city and now battlegrounds. What else do you think they could do for a pvp DLC? I cant really think of anything

At the very least, rotate EP, AD, and DC after each campaign. Surely that can't be too tough. People have listed loads of good ideas on other threads.

Eyesinthedrk · June 2018

You guys say ZOS doesn't care about pvp. Only the very small community that PVPs, care about pvp.

When I started around the time of orsinium, we had 30 and 7 day campaigns. All objectives, resource only, and scroll only. I think there are something like 7 vet/cp campaigns. Two non cp/below 50 campaigns. All of which had higher pop caps yet still had queue lines.
Now we have one 30 day and one 7 day cp camp, lower pop caps and still no queue lines.

If you guys got a pvp dlc then what’s left of a pvp population would get spread even thinner. And you’ll start seeing more camps closing.

Preyfar · June 2018

reguvin wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Ain' bringin' me together.

Also, no real PVP fallacy.

PVP dont sell. It's why the game quickly abandoned said updates aside from battlegrounds.

Mate, every big MMO has PvP in it's endgame. Saying that PvP doesn't sell is madness if you compare how many MMO's have excellent PvP ingame.

Exactly. And PVP sells... when it works. Look at games like Overwatch. The entire game is PVP, but PVP has to be functional and fun for it to be a feature.

josiahva · June 2018

reguvin wrote: »

Imperial City was the only PvP update since release.

We want more updates like Imperial City which only focuses on PvPing.

This is a Great game with alot of content and amazing features. But it really needs to focus on bringing PvP players to play the Game.

Wrong. They also added Battlegrounds, as well as dueling. That being said, I would like to see more PvP content, but not sure how exactly they could add it with IC being as dead as it is ever since they nerfed the respawn time in the districts the district wars are things of the past....what content exactly were you hoping for?

josiahva · June 2018

jabrone77 wrote: »

G1Countdown wrote: »

I want to see exactly ZERO PVP DLCs or Chapters. ZERO. They need to fix the servers to handle PVP first. It's a disaster. Then we can talk about PVP DLC or Chapters.

I wonder if Timestop is causing lag in Cyrodiil. It's just bubble after bubble after bubble...it's way overused and so many animations on top of all the proc animations can't be good for server stability.

Look at all these bubbles going off...

https://youtu.be/jYZ9o42gwdg

I saw a whole 3 time stops go off in your video. I have tried it out in Cyrodiil, but honestly, it doesn't seem to do a whole lot most of the time...in your video its not the time stops that killed you after all. One of those abilities that are far better in PvE than PvP...its a sad substitute for a negate in PvP.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2018

josiahva wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

G1Countdown wrote: »

I want to see exactly ZERO PVP DLCs or Chapters. ZERO. They need to fix the servers to handle PVP first. It's a disaster. Then we can talk about PVP DLC or Chapters.

I wonder if Timestop is causing lag in Cyrodiil. It's just bubble after bubble after bubble...it's way overused and so many animations on top of all the proc animations can't be good for server stability.

Look at all these bubbles going off...

https://youtu.be/jYZ9o42gwdg

I saw a whole 3 time stops go off in your video. I have tried it out in Cyrodiil, but honestly, it doesn't seem to do a whole lot most of the time...in your video its not the time stops that killed you after all. One of those abilities that are far better in PvE than PvP...its a sad substitute for a negate in PvP.

It’s amazing in PVP. You just have to lead people. For example, if you see a ball group ready to do their farming thing where they all run out of a tower spamming the destro ult, use that and then they just stop in place and can’t get to you effectively negating (as you stated) their attack. Also, only Sorcs have negate. It’s a game changer for my Magplar.

Using it on battering ram groups is quite useful as well. I even froze a bomber via dumb luck cause I casted it on a resource flag just in case someone was gonna do something silly.

It’s highly effective in PVP.

reguvin · June 2018

I did not expect so many support from others on this topic. Thnx all.

mav1234 · June 2018

I love PvE AND PvP. Would like to see more PvP options... Especially the chance for rated PvP. Why not have a BG leaderboard based on skill instead of just play time? Would love to see a proper ranking system.

Itzmichi · June 2018

Im not that much into PVP but i agree, they should give the pvp scene a bit of sugar once in a while as well.

SteveCampsOut · June 2018

Maryal wrote: »

IC was not a pvp dlc -- it was a hybrid. We've never been given a pvp dlc for this game.

Originally, entry into IC could have been locked to the exclusion of the others by control of the map (that's why the sewer icons on the map look like keyholes). Having exclusive entry to IC meant the 'controlling faction' would have the opportunity to farm, do the quest lines, or whatever ... as a pve zone (so long as map control was maintained). Obviously, when map control was lost, chaos would ensue as one or both of the other factions could gain entry to IC -- opening it up for pvp action. This would have resulted in IC 'as a pve zone' (due to faction exclusivity) and IC 'as a pvp zone' cycling. Granted, it would have been a rather chaotic cycle, but that would have been part of the fun. In theory, it would have been a win-win for pvp'ers and pve'ers alike.

It was a great idea, but during beta too many people complained that it would be unfair to pay for a dlc that, potentially, you couldn't play (or would be locked out of) for periods of time. So, that feature was scrapped during beta.
When faction controlled entry was scrapped during beta -- it was scrapped before the feature was 'turned on' in beta ... meaning, it was scrapped before anyone had a chance to actually experiment with the feature. It's important to note that the decision was based on a lot of hyperbole 'what if' qq'ing.

In hindsight, was scrapping the feature a good decision for the longevity of IC or for the benefit of pvp as a whole? Interesting to think about.
When IC initially released, the sewers were where most pve players went and was considered the 'care bears' portion of IC and the districts were where the hard-core pvp'ers went (a fact emphasized by many content creators at the time). Obviously there was some ganking in the sewers, but it was minimal when IC was first released. Things went downhill when the pvp'ers returned to Cyrodiil (why this happened is not discussed here to keep this post short). With no real pvp action, the IC pvp stragglers turned to their newly found past-time - sewer ganking. That caused the pve population in the sewers to steadily decline. Ironically, IC is now mostly empty and many people qq about that.

It's too bad that faction controlled entry was scrapped - IMO, that one change triggered IC's downward spiral which eventually lead to the current (mostly empty) status of IC.

So, I take issue with people claiming that IC was a pvp dlc, because it wasn't ... it was a hybrid. I do hope that someday they release a dlc that is purely pvp.

The "Locked" Imperial city deal fell through because having an area locked by faction has proven itself in the first game that had it to cause players to leave the game in droves. Much of ESO's PVP, 3 realms/3Factions/PVP Zones were based on the RVR of Dark Ages of Camelot. IC was meant to be similar to DAoC's Darkness Falls dungeon which could only be entered by the faction or realm that held the most keeps. What this ended up doing was causing players to mass up in one faction on many servers effectively locking out both other realms for most of the time. Your realm/faction can never get into the sweet dungeon with the sweet drops, you either have to make a new alt in the winning realm or quit the game. Guess which choice most people made when faced with having to level new alts in new realms.

idk · June 2018

1

Tandor wrote: »

Given how critical PvPers are of every new PvP initiative ZOS introduce, whether it be IC, dueling or battlegrounds, and how they constantly complain that Cyrodiil is permanently unplayable, I'm amazed that any PvPers should still want more.

Are you suggesting PvP players have a lot of complainers? A big portion of the big PvP players left in the first few months of the game and the rest left probably within 2 years. The only ones left tend to like PvE also.

On a serious note, many gaming forums are full of people complaining. Some of the complaints are legitimage but much is just small noise because someone personally does not like it.

UppGRAYxDD · June 2018

How about ZoS finally adding the justice system...you get to PvP in PvE...

ArchMikem · June 2018

PvP is what brings players together

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

Doctordarkspawn · June 2018

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Ain' bringin' me together.

Also, no real PVP fallacy.

PVP dont sell. It's why the game quickly abandoned said updates aside from battlegrounds.

If we take a closer looks, most popular games right now are PvP games: League of Legends, CSGO, Dota 2, Fortnite, PUBG, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Overwatch etc

So PvP do sell. League and Dota have both PvE and PvP and if you want to do well in those 2 games you have to be good at both PvE (creeps farming) and PvP (combat against players).

We are living in the era which PvP games dominate. Maybe it's just that no PvP MMO has been done right in the past.

The thrill of competing against another player is something very special and you will have players asking for PvP mode in a lot of games. Even Bioware's new IP Anthem, even when Bioware barely has any history with PvP (Mass Effect, Dragonage), there are people requesting PvP mode for Anthem.

@hmsdragonfly

You are correct. PVP does sell. PVP MMO's, do not sell. And that's been shown time and again.

battlegrounds, asymetrical games, hero shooters, these are all forms where PVP is both the central focus and the driving force. These games also distill their gameplay into a few factors, where as PVP in MMO's has layers on layers of variables.

Comparing an MMO to a Battle Royale or a Moba is apples to oranges. Find me a PVP focused MMO that hasn't collapsed under it's own weight within five years. Then you have a case. In the meantime, let me list a few that have died. Shadowbane. Warhammer online. Darkfall online. Dark Age Of Camelot.It is what it is, these games tend to die when the PVP community cannibalizes itself due to the weight of the people on top who have found out how to exploit the system. Contrast with Moba's where teamwork and knowledge of mechanics alone can make the difference, and you will see why these are not fessible examples.

mav1234 · June 2018

I don't want ESO to be wholly PvP focused, I just want it to increase the PvP content it offers.

Casterial · June 2018

We've had multiple micro-updates to PVP over the course of 4 years. But IC was the only big one and lets be honest it was catered more toward PVE players to go and enjoy IC.
IC originally did not have capture the zone.

IC is now dead and in order to resurrect it, it should either:
A. Be part of the base game and matter to campaign
or
B. Have its own campaign(?)

I would love to see more PVP updates, like more mini things added, maybe better battle grounds and more diverse ones.

I can't really see them add much more to Cyrodiil its already impacted, has everything it needs to be good, maybe just mini-cyrodiil fights (Like ticks for winning the battle crosses in weird spots like bridges etc). I could also see battle grounds like take the keep, or even battle grounds like bridge fights.

I will say this, Elder Scrolls Online has been rated one of the highest PVP MMOs since its launch while its PVE has been in 7th-12th place continually its PVP has remained in the top 5.

Their biggest priority though for Cyrodiil is to get a better server, or re-do their architecture system over the next 2 years or so to enhance PVP far more than it has ever been. Its semi-unplayable now.

Their second priority would be more unique things added to Cyrodiil.. I don't see how adding Cloud Ruler Temple will do anything but drag more PVE into Cyrodiil, I honestly don't know what is left for Cyrodiil.
We have:

Towns
Bridge Fights
Field Battles
Sieges
Take the Keeps
Resources
Towers
Landscape to fight around
Scrolls to auto run all day and cry if you're the carrier...

But I don't think Cyordiil would need anything added other than more diverse encouraged fights around the map.. Its almost entirely the emp keeps, I think during my time back I have been between Bleakers and Chal probably 500+ times.
I would also like to say they should think about maybe even making other war zones, like cities and stuff. Imagine an AD city where AD players defend and EP and DC are pushing in but also fighting... Some cool phase pvp (battle grounds basically) or something unique to this game to encourage more people to PVP.

Honestly, don't be scared of PVP there are hundreds of zergs willing to help you and zerg down people with so just come in and have fun, you'll soon like it also.

Also note: I have been in Cyrodiil since the first day I was allowed... From the first pvp beta, to the first week of ESO.

MattT1988 · June 2018

Jameliel wrote: »

darkstar2084 wrote: »

someone enlighten me they have cyrodil, imperial city and now battlegrounds. What else do you think they could do for a pvp DLC? I cant really think of anything

At the very least, rotate EP, AD, and DC after each campaign. Surely that can't be too tough. People have listed loads of good ideas on other threads.

Are you talking about rotating the faction bases on the Cyrodill map? That won’t make sense considering where the respective factions homelands are located in relation to Cyrodill.

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

How about ZoS finally adding the justice system...you get to PvP in PvE...

Not going to happen.

Casterial · June 2018

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

How about ZoS finally adding the justice system...you get to PvP in PvE...

This was the original plan and it was scrapped.

Also they could bring back faction honor which would make the other servers alive again.. It use to be you were locked to a certain faction on that campaign for a period of time and your other toons could NOT home or guest it they were opposing faction of your said home toon.

Mayrael · June 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Ain' bringin' me together.

Also, no real PVP fallacy.

PVP dont sell. It's why the game quickly abandoned said updates aside from battlegrounds.

Without PvP I wouldn't be here years ago. PvP is always my primary target in any MMO.

idk · June 2018

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

How about ZoS finally adding the justice system...you get to PvP in PvE...

They already stated this will not happen. They seemed to realize the justice system would be pretty lame with an opt out system and the opt out system would be required for such a thing in a PvE focused MMORPG as ESO is.

Doctordarkspawn · June 2018

Mayrael wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Ain' bringin' me together.

Also, no real PVP fallacy.

PVP dont sell. It's why the game quickly abandoned said updates aside from battlegrounds.

Without PvP I wouldn't be here years ago. PvP is always my primary target in any MMO.

Then boy howdy must you be used to disappointment, both from the way PVP has declined in this game, and how other MMO's have failed in the past.

perolord · June 2018

All that is needed are few more BGs with different group sizes...

Well at least arena with leaderbord is comming... i hope that means pvp arena with leaderboards...

hmsdragonfly · June 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Ain' bringin' me together.

Also, no real PVP fallacy.

PVP dont sell. It's why the game quickly abandoned said updates aside from battlegrounds.

If we take a closer looks, most popular games right now are PvP games: League of Legends, CSGO, Dota 2, Fortnite, PUBG, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Overwatch etc

So PvP do sell. League and Dota have both PvE and PvP and if you want to do well in those 2 games you have to be good at both PvE (creeps farming) and PvP (combat against players).

We are living in the era which PvP games dominate. Maybe it's just that no PvP MMO has been done right in the past.

The thrill of competing against another player is something very special and you will have players asking for PvP mode in a lot of games. Even Bioware's new IP Anthem, even when Bioware barely has any history with PvP (Mass Effect, Dragonage), there are people requesting PvP mode for Anthem.

@hmsdragonfly

You are correct. PVP does sell. PVP MMO's, do not sell. And that's been shown time and again.

battlegrounds, asymetrical games, hero shooters, these are all forms where PVP is both the central focus and the driving force. These games also distill their gameplay into a few factors, where as PVP in MMO's has layers on layers of variables.

Comparing an MMO to a Battle Royale or a Moba is apples to oranges. Find me a PVP focused MMO that hasn't collapsed under it's own weight within five years. Then you have a case. In the meantime, let me list a few that have died. Shadowbane. Warhammer online. Darkfall online. Dark Age Of Camelot.It is what it is, these games tend to die when the PVP community cannibalizes itself due to the weight of the people on top who have found out how to exploit the system. Contrast with Moba's where teamwork and knowledge of mechanics alone can make the difference, and you will see why these are not fessible examples.

I believe the reason is that no PvP MMO has done PvP correctly. Good PvP games have skill-based gameplay, if there's a way to make an MMO skill-based in term of gameplay, then there's we have a PvP MMO that can sell. Progression can come in the form of gear (items in MOBA games), build (in Dota and LOL, builds play an important role), cosmetics, social rank (to replace level) and maybe some other creative features. It's not that PvP can't sell, it's just that no MMO has done PvP correctly.

Casterial · June 2018

perolord wrote: »

All that is needed are few more BGs with different group sizes...

Well at least arena with leaderbord is comming... i hope that means pvp arena with leaderboards...

10v10, 5v5, 25v25, 10v10v10? Stuff like this? In cool new areas like bridge fights, attack the town, king of the hill, new maps, new cyrodiil related places like a BG to take Bruma would be cool first to hold all 3 flags etc yknow?

Alaztor91 · June 2018

IMO gear/items reliance is what ends up killing PvP in mmorpgs, pretty much every popular and successful PvP game has players starting on equal ground.

When you start adding stuff like set bonuses/gear quality/potions/poisons/cp points to the mix and the already existing class/skills balance problem because devs refuse to make skills/passives behave differently depending on which game mode they are used, that ''equal ground'' starts to disappear soon followed by competitiveness and interest.

I would prefer if PvP from mmorpgs were entirely based on your class and the skills they have access to, with gear and consumables made specifically for PvP, and skills/passives also tweaked specifically for PvP.

perolord · June 2018

Casterial wrote: »

perolord wrote: »

All that is needed are few more BGs with different group sizes...

Well at least arena with leaderbord is comming... i hope that means pvp arena with leaderboards...

10v10, 5v5, 25v25, 10v10v10? Stuff like this? In cool new areas like bridge fights, attack the town, king of the hill, new maps, new cyrodiil related places like a BG to take Bruma would be cool first to hold all 3 flags etc yknow?

Yea, this would be already good enough.