Non-CP is for sure a lot more interesting in the sense that you can spec your char in mostly regen/dps/tank where in CP, regen isn't even a thing to consider.
It also means that on most builds, you cant just spam abilities or have a huge stamina pool as a mag char or vice versa, which means mag chars cant block/dodge a lot nor can stamina chars spam their ultility skills - often in non-cp you can kill someone by either DPsing them down or by outsustaining them.

Procs are still stronger in No-CP but it doesn't feel too much of an issue, apart from zaan and sload, but those still seem to be an issue for CP pvp too. Lastly there are some CP only unbalanced issues too, such as how strong defile is.

Arthg wrote: »

I find resource management way more interesting in noCP PvP.
Mistakes in theory-crafting and situational awareness are also way more punishing in noCP than in CP - which I find a strong enticement to try to improve.

its not a huge difference anymore since removal of cost reduction CP.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Not everyone can play no cp, so there’s your answer.

Nope. Accessibility had nuttin' to do with it.

Whether or not it's skill based don't relate to accessibility.

No CP is way more fun and dynamic in terms of styles of play.

Absolutely CP. NoCP in this patch is by far the worst most cancerous I have seen ESO PvP since the old procalypse.

Blanco wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

There is no general answer.

CP can carry in CP PvP.
Procs can carry (harder) in noCP PvP.

whoaa debatable.

Yeah I don't agree with you.

Please explain proc carry hard in no cp and will win you a fight even if someone less skill than you

In order to have a strong opinion, I'd have to play CP and No CP PVP equally and with the builds well suited to those styles, and I simply don't.

I play CP PVP primarily, and the builds I use and the style I play is designed for CP PVP. If I were to play No CP PVP as often as I do CP PVP, I would need to adjust my build and playstyle to be well suited to No CP PVP. I make some adjustments when I do play No CP, but I don't play it often enough to make skill judgments.

In other words, I dont know about skill but I know which one I prefer. I prefer CP PVP - that's how I learned and that's what I play the most often. Its a different playstyle with different needs from builds and playstyle that are effective from No CP PVP. So I can't and won't say that CP PVP required more or less skill, but I know from experience I like CP PVP better.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Not everyone can play no cp, so there’s your answer.

Nope. Accessibility had nuttin' to do with it.

Whether or not it's skill based don't relate to accessibility.

I’m going to let you figure out what’s wrong with your reply on your own....

Ok, so you were saying that some people are unable to play non cp well. I thought you meant they didn't have access to it somehow.

So, I agree with you. That is one of the main points for my argument. Some people go to non-cp and find they can't play anymore. I find that fact interesting.

KingJ wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

There is no general answer.

CP can carry in CP PvP.
Procs can carry (harder) in noCP PvP.

whoaa debatable.

Yeah I don't agree with you.

Please explain proc carry hard in no cp and will win you a fight even if someone less skill than you

My argument-- Yeah, procs carry hard in no cp. No debating that. Personally I think CP carries harder in CP PvP.

A point that has been brought up on the forums is, for example sloads is OP in non cp/BGs but not in CP. I would have to say I agree with that statement. That is one example. Other procs also carry hard in non cp.

But, and this is where everyone will start disagreeing with me, I believe in Non CP you can "fight fire with fire". Someone has overloaded the build with proc cheese, you can do similar or simply beef up the damage of your build and you're back on an even playing field.

In CP, too many people are flat out unkillable 1v1 or even in other small scale scenarios. Their damage isn't "monster" high, but it's still high enough to kill a reasonable amount of people. I view that as an uneven playing field myself. Being 'seriously' unkillable should not be a thing for anyone who isn't specced for a dedicated tank role IMO.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I mostly play no-CP BG and Cyrodiil. I don’t think either takes more skill I just think that no-CP requires a different approach and that often the players who struggle with one form or the other of PVP just aren’t adjusting their mentality the way they should.

The outlier builds are definitely less balanced in no-CP than in CP. This means, imo, that if you have a lower skill level and seek to outperform your own limitations that min-maxing a build for no-CP will likely yield superior results as long as you are actually min-maxing for the no-CP environment. There’s simply nothing that can be done about proc based builds that have good sustain and defense.

Unlike in a CP environment a single damage proc set can actually carry most of your offensive burden and stacking 2 or more of Masters DW, Sload, Surge, Skoria, Zaan, Groth, Sheer Venom, etc makes your offense potent enough that you can just burn people too fast for them to have a competitive chance.

A final thought, I get many many more successful 1vX fights in no-CP than in CP.

Really interesting post after dissecting it.

I would have to say I, 100% agree that players who only struggle in only one mode are not taking the correct approach. Because the two are played distinctly differently and differing play styles come into play.

You are, also correct in stating "a single damage proc set can actually carry most of your offensive burden and stacking 2 or more of Masters DW, Sload, Surge, Skoria, Zaan, Groth, Sheer Venom, etc makes your offense potent enough that you can just burn people too fast for them to have a competitive chance". Really well said way of saying something else I was thinking. And, a point that all the CP advocates usually like to bring up if a discussion like this is brought up.

It is true to say you can slot any of the above stated, and put most players in a situation where they lack a competitive chance in no-cp. But, I usually rebut with the fact that those players who are getting killed continuously can do the same, but they will still probably lose because they actually just aren't that good at the game. So, point being, just because procs have more power in no cp (true), that doesn't mean that you still don't need to be decent enough to take advantage of them.

So, like, if I die to a proc in no CP I always blame myself, and not the game. When sloads first came around and that was on the death recap pretty much every time, I strived to modify my build to better deal with sloads. My builds are now better prepared to combat sloads despite that it is arguably OP in non CP. I say the same about Zaan's, Skoria, and others.

So, my point is. Procs are quite powerful in no CP-- yes. However, I personally believe skill is still a bigger factor than procs in that game mode and maybe not everyone will agree with that.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I mostly play no-CP BG and Cyrodiil. I don’t think either takes more skill I just think that no-CP requires a different approach and that often the players who struggle with one form or the other of PVP just aren’t adjusting their mentality the way they should.

The outlier builds are definitely less balanced in no-CP than in CP. This means, imo, that if you have a lower skill level and seek to outperform your own limitations that min-maxing a build for no-CP will likely yield superior results as long as you are actually min-maxing for the no-CP environment. There’s simply nothing that can be done about proc based builds that have good sustain and defense.

Unlike in a CP environment a single damage proc set can actually carry most of your offensive burden and stacking 2 or more of Masters DW, Sload, Surge, Skoria, Zaan, Groth, Sheer Venom, etc makes your offense potent enough that you can just burn people too fast for them to have a competitive chance.

A final thought, I get many many more successful 1vX fights in no-CP than in CP.

Really interesting post after dissecting it.

I would have to say I, 100% agree that players who only struggle in only one mode are not taking the correct approach. Because the two are played distinctly differently and differing play styles come into play.

You are, also correct in stating "a single damage proc set can actually carry most of your offensive burden and stacking 2 or more of Masters DW, Sload, Surge, Skoria, Zaan, Groth, Sheer Venom, etc makes your offense potent enough that you can just burn people too fast for them to have a competitive chance". Really well said way of saying something else I was thinking. And, a point that all the CP advocates usually like to bring up if a discussion like this is brought up.

It is true to say you can slot any of the above stated, and put most players in a situation where they lack a competitive chance in no-cp. But, I usually rebut with the fact that those players who are getting killed continuously can do the same, but they will still probably lose because they actually just aren't that good at the game. So, point being, just because procs have more power in no cp (true), that doesn't mean that you still don't need to be decent enough to take advantage of them.

So, like, if I die to a proc in no CP I always blame myself, and not the game. When sloads first came around and that was on the death recap pretty much every time, I strived to modify my build to better deal with sloads. My builds are now better prepared to combat sloads despite that it is arguably OP in non CP. I say the same about Zaan's, Skoria, and others.

So, my point is. Procs are quite powerful in no CP-- yes. However, I personally believe skill is still a bigger factor than procs in that game mode and maybe not everyone will agree with that.

To counter your arguement I’d simply say that because defensive counter measures are weaker in no-CP that simply equipping the same offensive procs is not enough. In situations like those it is usually the person who can be more aggressive in the initial 2-3 seconds of the fight that will typically win. Again, I don’t believe this is anything approaching skillful play. If we’re taking about a no-CP duel, then yes, you’re right the more skilled player should win, but open world or BGs where someone can engage you while you’re unaware of their presence it creates absolutely broken situation. If I’m running Surge+Sload+Skoria on my mageblade and I get 2 funnel weaves off before you can react to me then the odds of you winning that fight are almost non-existent. If I’m also running cost poisons then it’s free AP.

CP, while a significantly more balanced environment, allows for a much more forgiving environment due to significantly increased defensive and utility measures available. This means that even without a high level of skill you can often survive as long as you start turtling early enough. This is likely why players feel CP requires less skill, however I don’t feel that’s actually a compelling argument because imo the backbone of skilled competition is the ability to always be competitive within reason, obviously you still have to make good build decisions and such but it’s very very rare that I feel like I’m in a fight that I absolutely can’t compete in.

But again, I think each side has things that prevent it from being a truly competitive and skill based environment. They each present unique challenges but neither requires more skill, simply a proper perspective

Well, I can't argue with any of that. I would have to say I agree.

amir412 wrote: »

ZOS doesnt care if cp or no cp is more/less skillful, PVP is not a skill based game, craft urself sload, pair it with duroks bane, and kill everyone. Thats how pvp works. CP nonCP doesnt ever matter.

I debate strongly the accuracy of this post, but you are onto something. Proc sets are powerful right now but not nearly so in CP, not even remotely close.

I also believe while not being entirely skill based, the game does have a requirement for skill and without it one will be unsuccessful. Slotting duroks and sload is not a guarantee of anything IMO if you're bad.

I've also been known to purposefully not use procs or to run off meta sets, to test my skills even further. You can make it more skill based if you want, but that says nothing about your opponent or what they're running.

In terms of open-world Pvp—I've homed Sotha since it released with the Morrowind patch, and always LOVED the no-CP environment due to the quicker fights, and the tougher build decisions that the environment necessitated.

That said, ever since Summerset went live, I've found myself playing more and more in Vivec. Damage levels have simply climbed too high this patch (a combination of 2h=2pcs, and the light attack scaling buffs) for someone to play competitively without the added defensive plays that CP enables... especially when taking incoming damage from multiple players (and to say nothing of Sload's stacking).

For BGs however, no-CP is still very much the way to go, due to the hard-capped number of possible incoming damage sources.

I think cp - solo openworld cyrodiil requires more skill (and luck) than solo queuing bgs, which is as much a comment about cyrodiil/bgs as it is cp/no cp.

CP makes imo for a greater diversity of builds, which requires skill to defend against and or counter. In No cp it is easier to burst people down.

TheYKcid wrote: »

In terms of open-world Pvp—I've homed Sotha since it released with the Morrowind patch, and always LOVED the no-CP environment due to the quicker fights, and the tougher build decisions that the environment necessitated.

That said, ever since Summerset went live, I've found myself playing more and more in Vivec. Damage levels have simply climbed too high this patch (a combination of 2h=2pcs, and the light attack scaling buffs) for someone to play competitively without the added defensive plays that CP enables... especially when taking incoming damage from multiple players (and to say nothing of Sload's stacking).

For BGs however, no-CP is still very much the way to go, due to the hard-capped number of possible incoming damage sources.

Really good point made by this guy.

Damage is higher than it's ever been since I've been playing and with that, I've found CP PVP is more manageable.

Sotha is nice but fights don't usually drag on for very long, there's an argument that that results in skill being less of a factor in those instances.