CP PVP vs Non CP - What takes More Skill? [discussion]

Betsararie

Didgerion wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

What requires more skill? Try to be objective.

To me it's not clear. Personally I've usually thought non-CP because in non-cp you don't have your CP to help support you-- Just your build and skill. And creating good builds IS a skill. So I'm leaning more toward non-cp. Also non-cp is the more fun game mode.

The problem with CP PVP is it leans too much toward the defensive side of things which might make lesser players seem more tanky than they are.

What do you think?

Same skill. It really resolves to what build you are running. Does your build have a key skill that is amplified by several cp stars? If yes then definitely go CP. If your build has no such skills then put on more sustain sets and you'll have easier times in no CP campaign.

In both campaigns you will encounter strong players that will stress your skill level.

Point made by this guy if your build incorporates CP passives maybe CP is the right mode for you. Correct.

You encounter skilled players in both modes-- true. But you're deviating from the topic. It's about objectively which takes more skill and your post fails to meet that requirement. Though any input is appreciated.

DivineFirstYOLO

At the beginning one should define what the term "skill" means. For me it means killing and surviving in a 1vs1, 1vsX, small scale group vs larger groups, ball group vs almost entire faction. So, the more you are against, the more you kill, the longer you survive, the amount of AP you get by killing players (not PvD) falls in my equation of skill.

Next point I would focus on is how do you fight when you are outnumbered? You kite enemies into a choke point, you "lead" them to a point where you want to fight. How do you get to this point? "Simple" - running, mist form, dodge rolling, holding block, healing /getting heals by your allies until you are in a good spot. And this is exactly why CP Campaigns require less skill to be successful in PvP. You have more ressources, you can block longer, roll more often, sprint longer, have more mitigation, better regen, better burst, better healing and less break free cost.

You can be a skilled player and do great in both environments, but no CP definitely is less forgiving, one mistake and your chance is gone, one bad place to fight and you're done.

On top of that you hardly ever see people 1vXing in no CP .. most videos are made playing on Vivec.

Maulkin

Rianai wrote: »

There is no general answer.

CP can carry in CP PvP.
Procs can carry (harder) in noCP PvP.

Agreed.

Personally, think no-CP without proc-sets and cost-increase poisons would be the best version of this game. Sadly no-CP gets saddled with all the crap they bring out to balance CP power creep.

Lexxypwns

DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »

At the beginning one should define what the term "skill" means. For me it means killing and surviving in a 1vs1, 1vsX, small scale group vs larger groups, ball group vs almost entire faction. So, the more you are against, the more you kill, the longer you survive, the amount of AP you get by killing players (not PvD) falls in my equation of skill.

Next point I would focus on is how do you fight when you are outnumbered? You kite enemies into a choke point, you "lead" them to a point where you want to fight. How do you get to this point? "Simple" - running, mist form, dodge rolling, holding block, healing /getting heals by your allies until you are in a good spot. And this is exactly why CP Campaigns require less skill to be successful in PvP. You have more ressources, you can block longer, roll more often, sprint longer, have more mitigation, better regen, better burst, better healing and less break free cost.

You can be a skilled player and do great in both environments, but no CP definitely is less forgiving, one mistake and your chance is gone, one bad place to fight and you're done.

On top of that you hardly ever see people 1vXing in no CP .. most videos are made playing on Vivec.

Imo, 1vX is much easier in no-CP for Mageblade. Creatively using shadow image lets you open up on people in such a way that they simply can’t recover. I’ll quite often kite around some LoS waiting for a spectral bow then use shade to get into position to hit a squishy, Weaving will, cripple(to try to bait a dodge roll), plus a poison proc and a sload proc then it’s fear and GG.

@Maulkin with all due respect, you just need to bite the bullet and run those things. It really brings me back to the old way the game used to feel when I run Durok+Sload with cost and DoT poisons in no-CP. Days when being better than someone made you a god not put them on their back foot and let them turtle til help arrived. It’s really the most fun available imo. People try to use it as an indictment of my skill constantly but I literally couldn’t care less what anyone thinks of it because I’m simply tired of losing to people who don’t have the same goals as me(actual competitive PvP).

Maulkin

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@Maulkin with all due respect, you just need to bite the bullet and run those things. It really brings me back to the old way the game used to feel when I run Durok+Sload with cost and DoT poisons in no-CP. Days when being better than someone made you a god not put them on their back foot and let them turtle til help arrived. It’s really the most fun available imo. People try to use it as an indictment of my skill constantly but I literally couldn’t care less what anyone thinks of it because I’m simply tired of losing to people who don’t have the same goals as me(actual competitive PvP).

Buddy my StamSorc has Sload on the body, Viper on S&B with Reverb Bash, Master Axes with Blood Craze on the other bar and Skoria as monster set. My MagDK has Sload and Duroks with Skoria. My MagWarden is Winterborn and Duroks.

I'm riding the proc set meta with the best of them. I do however feel that the game would be more fun without all these.

Rianai

Lexxypwns wrote: »

DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »

At the beginning one should define what the term "skill" means. For me it means killing and surviving in a 1vs1, 1vsX, small scale group vs larger groups, ball group vs almost entire faction. So, the more you are against, the more you kill, the longer you survive, the amount of AP you get by killing players (not PvD) falls in my equation of skill.

Next point I would focus on is how do you fight when you are outnumbered? You kite enemies into a choke point, you "lead" them to a point where you want to fight. How do you get to this point? "Simple" - running, mist form, dodge rolling, holding block, healing /getting heals by your allies until you are in a good spot. And this is exactly why CP Campaigns require less skill to be successful in PvP. You have more ressources, you can block longer, roll more often, sprint longer, have more mitigation, better regen, better burst, better healing and less break free cost.

You can be a skilled player and do great in both environments, but no CP definitely is less forgiving, one mistake and your chance is gone, one bad place to fight and you're done.

On top of that you hardly ever see people 1vXing in no CP .. most videos are made playing on Vivec.

Imo, 1vX is much easier in no-CP for Mageblade. Creatively using shadow image lets you open up on people in such a way that they simply can’t recover. I’ll quite often kite around some LoS waiting for a spectral bow then use shade to get into position to hit a squishy, Weaving will, cripple(to try to bait a dodge roll), plus a poison proc and a sload proc then it’s fear and GG.

I found 1vX to be easier in Vivec. Granted i've been there only a few times, so this is very anecdotal, but among the typical potatoes there seem to be plenty of players with low CP and/or bad CP distribution, so i end up doing more dmg while taking less on top of having much better sustain (especially stam sustain) even with a build that is not min/maxed for CP PvP. Meanwhile in Sotha every cp200 light attack spammer can be a potential threat. More so if you add procs.

This raw CP advantage is also what i was referring to with "CP can carry". As soon i ran into decent max lvl players with a proper setup it wasn't easier than noCP obviously.

CyrusArya

Neither takes more skill, it’s the same game. You just have to build differently. No CP is definitely more challenging, but outnumbered PvP is also not consistently possible in no CP and that’s the most skillful format of PvP. So in that regard I’d say cp PvP offers more challenging content. No CP is great if you wanna zerg or stomp literal noobs. Otherwise, it’s not very accommodating of skillful pvp.

I’d like to remind people that no cp is NOT the base game. It never has been. The base game was fundamentally changed time and time again to accommodate the champion system, the most prominent example being with Morrowind where tons of intrinsic power and sustain was taken away from classes and armor passives. No cp is just a gimped shell of the base game, which has at this point been designed around the champion system.

GreenSoup2HoT

CP by a mile.

It doesnt take more skill to manage less resources in no-cp. It just slows and dumbs down combat. You can abuse roots and snares in no-cp and zerg down anyone. Thats why you see so many magplars in no-cp imo.

In cp depending your build, resources are not the focus but rather movement, rotations and decision making.

This game has evolved to require cp to even function. If no-cp had sprint regen, block regen and sneak regen returned like 1.6 then maybe it could be good. The new itemization doesnt even make sense without cp. In no-cp they should restrict sets to only crafted or pre-imperial city sets. Its really just a training ground for those without cp.

In my opinion nobody can make an argument that no-cp takes more skill since its not pop locked on all alliances like cp is. You will never experience the scenarios in no-cp you do in cp due to the population. (speculating based on NA server populations).

Solariken

CyrusArya wrote: »

Neither takes more skill, it’s the same game. You just have to build differently. No CP is definitely more challenging, but outnumbered PvP is also not consistently possible in no CP and that’s the most skillful format of PvP. So in that regard I’d say cp PvP offers more challenging content. No CP is great if you wanna zerg or stomp literal noobs. Otherwise, it’s not very accommodating of skillful pvp.

I’d like to remind people that no cp is NOT the base game. It never has been. The base game was fundamentally changed time and time again to accommodate the champion system, the most prominent example being with Morrowind where tons of intrinsic power and sustain was taken away from classes and armor passives. No cp is just a gimped shell of the base game, which has at this point been designed around the champion system.

I agree with most of what Arya said here except that noCP is about noobstomping lol, that's certainly not the case. In fact, 99% of the PvP 1vX videos you see are CP-enabled max CP toons smashing waves of light attacking low-CP noobs.

But yes, neither takes more skill. NoCP is however much less forgiving and you gas out much more quickly.

I hate the neutered feeling of noCP but I will always prefer it because it's an even playing field.

CyrusArya

Solariken wrote: »

I agree with most of what Arya said here except that noCP is about noobstomping lol, that's certainly not the case. In fact, 99% of the PvP 1vX videos you see are CP-enabled max CP toons smashing waves of light attacking low-CP noobs.

But yes, neither takes more skill. NoCP is however much less forgiving and you gas out much more quickly.

I hate the neutered feeling of noCP but I will always prefer it because it's an even playing field.

I’m not saying no cp is only about noob stomping. What I’m saying is, in context of small scale and outnumbered PvP, it is very much so possible to small scale and even 1vX experienced, geared, and CP capped players in CP campaigns. In no cp, not so much. Sheer numbers are weighted way too heavily in no cp, and is all that really matters. Players don’t have the tools to extend fights outnumbered in no cp, because those tools were all stripped from the base game to accommodate the champion system.

SlowMetabolism

Lexxypwns wrote: »

SlowMetabolism wrote: »

The only people I see saying CP is more skillful are the ones whose argument is that proc sets can carry players in no CP. While true, this sounds like more of a problem with the people implementing procs than the game mode itself. Same could be said for poisons. It all goes back to the devs who think pushing these things into the game is a good idea. I would love to play no CP on Xbox NA but it has 0 bars across the board at all times.

While proc sets are obviously a problem, they’re not the only issue. In general the weaker defensive mechanics reward initiative too much and just create too many situations where all you can do is hope to survive until someone comes to help you. Defiles are more impactful in no-CP because heals are already so much lower(you lose 12% crit, probably 10%+ between blessed and quick recovery, 20% max stat, elfborn/Precise strikes bonus healing) those things also make damage poisons severely overtuned. Plus there’s the cost poison issue, they are basically an auto win in no-CP. Combine those with the weaker/lower availability of defensive mechanics like shields, block, mitigation, and dodge roll and you end up with scenarios where you can apply early damage and prevent a competitive fight from ever occuring.

No-CP is wildly unbalanced compared to CP. this is not indicative of a more skill based environment. It is not necessarily less skill based, but you’ve presented absolutely no compelling argument for CP requiring less skill while also doing a very poor job of rebutting the points against no-CP.

Just to be clear, I prefer no-CP pvp. But it’s not harder or more balanced. It’s easier and less balanced, which lets me just smash things, usually unimpeded. It creates a feeling similar to older ESO PvP where solo/very small scale was much more fun, as long as you approach it properly

As I said, taking away the un-needed things that have been added, ie proc sets (damaging specifically or ones that give damage such as 7th/ravager) poisons etc and you have a more balanced game. Sure you have less healing and max stats but with reduced max stats everyone also has reduced damage too. If your argument, or anyones, is based on it being to easy to do damage and to hard to outheal it im sorry to say that being on the offensive is generally more rewarded gameplay than attempting to bubble and be unkillable as that will not win you a fight. You can see this by just looking at the cost of defensive/healing abilities as compared to damaging spammables or skills. With that being said if you want to build glass cannon in No CP PvP you will be punished heavily more so than in CP where even glass cannons can sustain long enough to survive/escape. On top of that if they run into someone who can survive their damage they are very likely dead. Is this a little bit more of a rebuttal for you? My first post was more of an observaton on the responses I was seeing in this thread. I would type more of an essay than I already have but I am typing on my phone and it is a pain.

Edit: I would also add that balancing No CP would be easier than CP. As of now, things are overperforming in No CP because they have CP campaigns in mind when introducing sets and items.

fred4

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

In my opinion nobody can make an argument that no-cp takes more skill since its not pop locked on all alliances like cp is.

Yeah, it takes skill to deal with the lag, right? </end sarcasm>

On PC EU Sotha Sil is frequently pop locked on all alliances, by the way.

Starlight_Knight

I dont think eso has competitive skill based pvp at all - but i do think CP closer to being balanced than no CP.

As for skill - well its always situational, what you're built for your preferred play style probably wont be the fight you find yourself in.

Waffennacht

Lexxypwns wrote: »

DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »

At the beginning one should define what the term "skill" means. For me it means killing and surviving in a 1vs1, 1vsX, small scale group vs larger groups, ball group vs almost entire faction. So, the more you are against, the more you kill, the longer you survive, the amount of AP you get by killing players (not PvD) falls in my equation of skill.

Next point I would focus on is how do you fight when you are outnumbered? You kite enemies into a choke point, you "lead" them to a point where you want to fight. How do you get to this point? "Simple" - running, mist form, dodge rolling, holding block, healing /getting heals by your allies until you are in a good spot. And this is exactly why CP Campaigns require less skill to be successful in PvP. You have more ressources, you can block longer, roll more often, sprint longer, have more mitigation, better regen, better burst, better healing and less break free cost.

You can be a skilled player and do great in both environments, but no CP definitely is less forgiving, one mistake and your chance is gone, one bad place to fight and you're done.

On top of that you hardly ever see people 1vXing in no CP .. most videos are made playing on Vivec.

Imo, 1vX is much easier in no-CP for Mageblade. Creatively using shadow image lets you open up on people in such a way that they simply can’t recover. I’ll quite often kite around some LoS waiting for a spectral bow then use shade to get into position to hit a squishy, Weaving will, cripple(to try to bait a dodge roll), plus a poison proc and a sload proc then it’s fear and GG.

@Maulkin with all due respect, you just need to bite the bullet and run those things. It really brings me back to the old way the game used to feel when I run Durok+Sload with cost and DoT poisons in no-CP. Days when being better than someone made you a god not put them on their back foot and let them turtle til help arrived. It’s really the most fun available imo. People try to use it as an indictment of my skill constantly but I literally couldn’t care less what anyone thinks of it because I’m simply tired of losing to people who don’t have the same goals as me(actual competitive PvP).

This works especially well when an opponent spazzes out and wastes all this Stam because he becomes tunnel visioned

jaws343

I mostly play CP Cyrodil. But when I do play no-CP Battlegrounds, I find that the play style favors true glass cannon builds. Especially in a deathmatch. It is centered more on speccing as much damage as possible to kill as many players as possible before you run out of resources. Since the revive timer is quick and you can immediately join the fray, no-CP BGs favors defense far less. With CP battlegrounds, survivability was far greater. Now, No-CP is much quicker, but also much more frustrating in BGs and requires a lot more skill to stay alive and the moment you are pressured by more than 2 players, you are pretty much dead if they are competent.

From a Cyrodil perspective, I accidentally loaded into a non-CP campaign (had previously went there to buy some stuff since the server was low pop) and attempted to siege a keep. It was incredibly, absurdly difficult and it truly felt like I was doing little to no damage. You could say that that requires more skill, but I find it tedious. And fighting other players with awful resource levels and resource management isn't really that fun either. At the same time, CP offers unique ways of varying a build to account for weaknesses that you may have, or to exploit weaknesses in the players you are up against. Speccing correctly and understanding how your resources are helping you in different situations is far more skillful that not having to worry about those things.

Also, the mag-sorc provides a perfect example of the skill difference between both PVP types. A no CP mag-sorc is going to have weaker shields and is going to have 0 defense underneath their shield. You can melt a mag-sorc in No-CP instantly when their shield goes down, and you can break their shield with 1 or 2 attacks, without a CC. And if they spam that shield or shield stack, they will be out of resources very quickly. I personally run a mag sorc with shackle-breaker and alteration mastery, with domihaus and maw of the infernal as my monster sets. Even with all of that, Resources are gone extremely quickly in any intensive fight without CP. With CP, it requires a lot more skill and timing to take down that mag sorc.

GreenSoup2HoT

fred4 wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

In my opinion nobody can make an argument that no-cp takes more skill since its not pop locked on all alliances like cp is.

Yeah, it takes skill to deal with the lag, right? </end sarcasm>

On PC EU Sotha Sil is frequently pop locked on all alliances, by the way.

I guess you right. Nobody wins when it comes to lag. Most of the NA no-cp is gated buff campaigns.

Im only aware of NA PC/console server pops. I wonder why so many EU players play no-cp.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

98% of my PVP play time since launch has been on the CP server. The few times I went into non-CP Cyrodiil it felt like I was playing against kindergarteners. BGs was obviously a bit more tough but I think that has more to do with pre-made groups than skill level.

In this game I always kind of thought that the best of the best should fight against each other with all of their best weapons available, regardless of how cheesy you may feel those weapons may be. Iron sharpens iron afterall.

Xsorus

No cp will require more skill simply because of resource management. However you’re far more likely to run into less skilled players on no cp

CatchMeTrolling

Cp definitely has less skilled players, cp is a crutch most of the time. Even then it doesn’t help all the time, I don’t think I’d ever get a 3 v 17 or 2 v 8 in no cp at the rate that you can get it in cp.

Everything just hurts way more in no cp, it’s less forgiving. For that reason it can easily turn away people that don’t want to adjust.

I don’t think dying faster equates to easier because that means players have a harder time adjusting since they’re dying so quick.

Takes-No-Prisoner

fred4 wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

In my opinion nobody can make an argument that no-cp takes more skill since its not pop locked on all alliances like cp is.

Yeah, it takes skill to deal with the lag, right? </end sarcasm>

On PC EU Sotha Sil is frequently pop locked on all alliances, by the way.

Only certain platforms seem to get to enjoy the no-CP campaigns. As much as I would be interested in doing no-CP, without other groups to take an interest in it, it is simply dead on my server.

A rather unfortunate situation to be in, would you not agree?

In all my years of PvPing, this one particular topic is one that disappoints me the most. Not being able to play in a healthy no-CP campaign. I'll never be able to experience that, so long as no interest exist. I feel as if I am missing out on a spectrum of gameplay I will not get to play in.

evoniee

as cp 390ish, im satisfied to see me carrying cp 500-700 on BG.

Lexxypwns

Maulkin wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@Maulkin with all due respect, you just need to bite the bullet and run those things. It really brings me back to the old way the game used to feel when I run Durok+Sload with cost and DoT poisons in no-CP. Days when being better than someone made you a god not put them on their back foot and let them turtle til help arrived. It’s really the most fun available imo. People try to use it as an indictment of my skill constantly but I literally couldn’t care less what anyone thinks of it because I’m simply tired of losing to people who don’t have the same goals as me(actual competitive PvP).

Buddy my StamSorc has Sload on the body, Viper on S&B with Reverb Bash, Master Axes with Blood Craze on the other bar and Skoria as monster set. My MagDK has Sload and Duroks with Skoria. My MagWarden is Winterborn and Duroks.

I'm riding the proc set meta with the best of them. I do however feel that the game would be more fun without all these.

100% agree with you. I just remember being a principled PVP purist for the last proc meta and getting rekt by everyone and their mom that rode it. That’s why I’m constantly parroting the same mantra, just ride this meta and enjoy.

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »

At the beginning one should define what the term "skill" means. For me it means killing and surviving in a 1vs1, 1vsX, small scale group vs larger groups, ball group vs almost entire faction. So, the more you are against, the more you kill, the longer you survive, the amount of AP you get by killing players (not PvD) falls in my equation of skill.

Next point I would focus on is how do you fight when you are outnumbered? You kite enemies into a choke point, you "lead" them to a point where you want to fight. How do you get to this point? "Simple" - running, mist form, dodge rolling, holding block, healing /getting heals by your allies until you are in a good spot. And this is exactly why CP Campaigns require less skill to be successful in PvP. You have more ressources, you can block longer, roll more often, sprint longer, have more mitigation, better regen, better burst, better healing and less break free cost.

You can be a skilled player and do great in both environments, but no CP definitely is less forgiving, one mistake and your chance is gone, one bad place to fight and you're done.

On top of that you hardly ever see people 1vXing in no CP .. most videos are made playing on Vivec.

Imo, 1vX is much easier in no-CP for Mageblade. Creatively using shadow image lets you open up on people in such a way that they simply can’t recover. I’ll quite often kite around some LoS waiting for a spectral bow then use shade to get into position to hit a squishy, Weaving will, cripple(to try to bait a dodge roll), plus a poison proc and a sload proc then it’s fear and GG.

@Maulkin with all due respect, you just need to bite the bullet and run those things. It really brings me back to the old way the game used to feel when I run Durok+Sload with cost and DoT poisons in no-CP. Days when being better than someone made you a god not put them on their back foot and let them turtle til help arrived. It’s really the most fun available imo. People try to use it as an indictment of my skill constantly but I literally couldn’t care less what anyone thinks of it because I’m simply tired of losing to people who don’t have the same goals as me(actual competitive PvP).

This works especially well when an opponent spazzes out and wastes all this Stam because he becomes tunnel visioned

Big facts

SlowMetabolism wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

SlowMetabolism wrote: »

The only people I see saying CP is more skillful are the ones whose argument is that proc sets can carry players in no CP. While true, this sounds like more of a problem with the people implementing procs than the game mode itself. Same could be said for poisons. It all goes back to the devs who think pushing these things into the game is a good idea. I would love to play no CP on Xbox NA but it has 0 bars across the board at all times.

While proc sets are obviously a problem, they’re not the only issue. In general the weaker defensive mechanics reward initiative too much and just create too many situations where all you can do is hope to survive until someone comes to help you. Defiles are more impactful in no-CP because heals are already so much lower(you lose 12% crit, probably 10%+ between blessed and quick recovery, 20% max stat, elfborn/Precise strikes bonus healing) those things also make damage poisons severely overtuned. Plus there’s the cost poison issue, they are basically an auto win in no-CP. Combine those with the weaker/lower availability of defensive mechanics like shields, block, mitigation, and dodge roll and you end up with scenarios where you can apply early damage and prevent a competitive fight from ever occuring.

No-CP is wildly unbalanced compared to CP. this is not indicative of a more skill based environment. It is not necessarily less skill based, but you’ve presented absolutely no compelling argument for CP requiring less skill while also doing a very poor job of rebutting the points against no-CP.

Just to be clear, I prefer no-CP pvp. But it’s not harder or more balanced. It’s easier and less balanced, which lets me just smash things, usually unimpeded. It creates a feeling similar to older ESO PvP where solo/very small scale was much more fun, as long as you approach it properly

As I said, taking away the un-needed things that have been added, ie proc sets (damaging specifically or ones that give damage such as 7th/ravager) poisons etc and you have a morebalanced game. Sure you have less healing and max stats but with reduced max stats everyone also has reduced damage too. If your argument, or anyones, is based on it being to easy to do damage and to hard to outheal it im sorry to say that being on the offensive is generally more rewarded gameplay than attempting to bubble and be unkillable as that will not win you a fight. You can see this by just looking at the cost of defensive/healing abilities as compared to damaging spammables or skills. With that being said if you want to build glass cannon in No CP PvP you will be punished heavily more so than in CP where even glass cannons can sustain long enough to sustain. On top of that if they run into someone who can survive their damage they are very likely dead. Is this a little bit more of a rebuttal for you? My first post was more of an observaton on the responses I was seeing in this thread. I would type more of an essay than I already have but I am typing on my phone and it is a pain.

Edit: I would also add that balancing No CP would be easier than CP. As of now, things are overperforming in No CP because they have CP campaigns in mind when introducing sets and items.

In general I agree this is correct. I also agree that being aggressive and controlling a fight should be more rewarded than just trying to stay alive.

However, I think the ability to quickly reset a fight is very very important outside of a vacuum. This is because getting engaged by someone you were unaware of should not be an automatic win, that’s not fun for the loser and even the winner will lose interest eventually when the fun of dominating people fades

Ragnarock41

Remove procs and you have a playable game in non-cp. Since summerset came out I feel like CP is now better, cause procs literally destroy you in sotha now.

Betsararie

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

98% of my PVP play time since launch has been on the CP server. The few times I went into non-CP Cyrodiil it felt like I was playing against kindergarteners. BGs was obviously a bit more tough but I think that has more to do with pre-made groups than skill level.

In this game I always kind of thought that the best of the best should fight against each other with all of their best weapons available, regardless of how cheesy you may feel those weapons may be. Iron sharpens iron afterall.

This is a good idea no shame in slotting BiS sets if the only goal to achieve is the highest power build possible.

And agree the thing with the BGs is there is a lot of kiddies and then you have a couple big guys.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Cp definitely has less skilled players, cp is a crutch most of the time. Even then it doesn’t help all the time, I don’t think I’d ever get a 3 v 17 or 2 v 8 in no cp at the rate that you can get it in cp.

Everything just hurts way more in no cp, it’s less forgiving. For that reason it can easily turn away people that don’t want to adjust.

I don’t think dying faster equates to easier because that means players have a harder time adjusting since they’re dying so quick.

CP is a massive crutch which is an issue I have with it but skilled play is still very much possible in CP. Some players just aren't killable however which is a pet peeve for me but it's something you have to live with.

Interesting point brought up-- The fact that players die easier in no CP does not equate to the mode itself being easier because since the players are dying so quick adjusting will be more difficult. True. Not incorrect. Bit of a flowery way to look at it but that's valid.

Betsararie

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Remove procs and you have a playable game in non-cp. Since summerset came out I feel like CP is now better, cause procs literally destroy you in sotha now.

This guy is right, CP is playing better this patch than last IMO and non cp is feeling a little dull.

Ragnarock41

Blanco wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Remove procs and you have a playable game in non-cp. Since summerset came out I feel like CP is now better, cause procs literally destroy you in sotha now.

This guy is right, CP is playing better this patch than last IMO and non cp is feeling a little dull.

has to do with the fact that the average non-cp player runs at least 2 proc sets now.

Betsararie

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Remove procs and you have a playable game in non-cp. Since summerset came out I feel like CP is now better, cause procs literally destroy you in sotha now.

This guy is right, CP is playing better this patch than last IMO and non cp is feeling a little dull.

has to do with the fact that the average non-cp player runs at least 2 proc sets now.

Exactly I think the play is a little silly myself.

Lutallo

If there were no proc sets in the game, then NoCP would be a resounding winner.
As it stands, it’s hard to answer. CP gives you a massive crutch and makes a lot of builds viable. NoCP you actually have to have a good burst combo and play for regen, but the proc set meta let’s no skill players win for little effort.

Vapirko

Neither. In one proc sets rule and the other cp rules. Both are crutches.

Zelos

There is no skill in this game it doesnt have the platform for skill, its about proc sets and shuffle dodging, its about CP and Befoul with Defile, its about poisons and cheap no counter play bursts. There is no skill required to play