I find resource management way more interesting in noCP PvP.
Mistakes in theory-crafting and situational awareness are also way more punishing in noCP than in CP - which I find a strong enticement to try to improve.
CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Not everyone can play no cp, so there’s your answer.
CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Not everyone can play no cp, so there’s your answer.
Nope. Accessibility had nuttin' to do with it.
Whether or not it's skill based don't relate to accessibility.
Absolutely CP. NoCP in this patch is by far the worst most cancerous I have seen ESO PvP since the old procalypse.
Absolutely CP. NoCP in this patch is by far the worst most cancerous I have seen ESO PvP since the old procalypse.
Really interesting take.
I can't say I don't see where you're coming from. CP requires more mental endurance with the fights being longer (speaking of small scale).
I'd argue CP PVP is unbalanced defensively whereas Non CP is unblanced offensively, if that makes sense. Damage capability is too high in no cp and CP brings tankiness to too high a level in CP.
CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Not everyone can play no cp, so there’s your answer.
Nope. Accessibility had nuttin' to do with it.
Whether or not it's skill based don't relate to accessibility.
I’m going to let you figure out what’s wrong with your reply on your own....
I mostly play no-CP BG and Cyrodiil. I don’t think either takes more skill I just think that no-CP requires a different approach and that often the players who struggle with one form or the other of PVP just aren’t adjusting their mentality the way they should.
The outlier builds are definitely less balanced in no-CP than in CP. This means, imo, that if you have a lower skill level and seek to outperform your own limitations that min-maxing a build for no-CP will likely yield superior results as long as you are actually min-maxing for the no-CP environment. There’s simply nothing that can be done about proc based builds that have good sustain and defense.
Unlike in a CP environment a single damage proc set can actually carry most of your offensive burden and stacking 2 or more of Masters DW, Sload, Surge, Skoria, Zaan, Groth, Sheer Venom, etc makes your offense potent enough that you can just burn people too fast for them to have a competitive chance.
A final thought, I get many many more successful 1vX fights in no-CP than in CP.
I mostly play no-CP BG and Cyrodiil. I don’t think either takes more skill I just think that no-CP requires a different approach and that often the players who struggle with one form or the other of PVP just aren’t adjusting their mentality the way they should.
The outlier builds are definitely less balanced in no-CP than in CP. This means, imo, that if you have a lower skill level and seek to outperform your own limitations that min-maxing a build for no-CP will likely yield superior results as long as you are actually min-maxing for the no-CP environment. There’s simply nothing that can be done about proc based builds that have good sustain and defense.
Unlike in a CP environment a single damage proc set can actually carry most of your offensive burden and stacking 2 or more of Masters DW, Sload, Surge, Skoria, Zaan, Groth, Sheer Venom, etc makes your offense potent enough that you can just burn people too fast for them to have a competitive chance.
A final thought, I get many many more successful 1vX fights in no-CP than in CP.
Really interesting post after dissecting it.
I would have to say I, 100% agree that players who only struggle in only one mode are not taking the correct approach. Because the two are played distinctly differently and differing play styles come into play.
You are, also correct in stating "a single damage proc set can actually carry most of your offensive burden and stacking 2 or more of Masters DW, Sload, Surge, Skoria, Zaan, Groth, Sheer Venom, etc makes your offense potent enough that you can just burn people too fast for them to have a competitive chance". Really well said way of saying something else I was thinking. And, a point that all the CP advocates usually like to bring up if a discussion like this is brought up.
It is true to say you can slot any of the above stated, and put most players in a situation where they lack a competitive chance in no-cp. But, I usually rebut with the fact that those players who are getting killed continuously can do the same, but they will still probably lose because they actually just aren't that good at the game. So, point being, just because procs have more power in no cp (true), that doesn't mean that you still don't need to be decent enough to take advantage of them.
So, like, if I die to a proc in no CP I always blame myself, and not the game. When sloads first came around and that was on the death recap pretty much every time, I strived to modify my build to better deal with sloads. My builds are now better prepared to combat sloads despite that it is arguably OP in non CP. I say the same about Zaan's, Skoria, and others.
So, my point is. Procs are quite powerful in no CP-- yes. However, I personally believe skill is still a bigger factor than procs in that game mode and maybe not everyone will agree with that.
I mostly play no-CP BG and Cyrodiil. I don’t think either takes more skill I just think that no-CP requires a different approach and that often the players who struggle with one form or the other of PVP just aren’t adjusting their mentality the way they should.
The outlier builds are definitely less balanced in no-CP than in CP. This means, imo, that if you have a lower skill level and seek to outperform your own limitations that min-maxing a build for no-CP will likely yield superior results as long as you are actually min-maxing for the no-CP environment. There’s simply nothing that can be done about proc based builds that have good sustain and defense.
Unlike in a CP environment a single damage proc set can actually carry most of your offensive burden and stacking 2 or more of Masters DW, Sload, Surge, Skoria, Zaan, Groth, Sheer Venom, etc makes your offense potent enough that you can just burn people too fast for them to have a competitive chance.
A final thought, I get many many more successful 1vX fights in no-CP than in CP.
Really interesting post after dissecting it.
I would have to say I, 100% agree that players who only struggle in only one mode are not taking the correct approach. Because the two are played distinctly differently and differing play styles come into play.
You are, also correct in stating "a single damage proc set can actually carry most of your offensive burden and stacking 2 or more of Masters DW, Sload, Surge, Skoria, Zaan, Groth, Sheer Venom, etc makes your offense potent enough that you can just burn people too fast for them to have a competitive chance". Really well said way of saying something else I was thinking. And, a point that all the CP advocates usually like to bring up if a discussion like this is brought up.
It is true to say you can slot any of the above stated, and put most players in a situation where they lack a competitive chance in no-cp. But, I usually rebut with the fact that those players who are getting killed continuously can do the same, but they will still probably lose because they actually just aren't that good at the game. So, point being, just because procs have more power in no cp (true), that doesn't mean that you still don't need to be decent enough to take advantage of them.
So, like, if I die to a proc in no CP I always blame myself, and not the game. When sloads first came around and that was on the death recap pretty much every time, I strived to modify my build to better deal with sloads. My builds are now better prepared to combat sloads despite that it is arguably OP in non CP. I say the same about Zaan's, Skoria, and others.
So, my point is. Procs are quite powerful in no CP-- yes. However, I personally believe skill is still a bigger factor than procs in that game mode and maybe not everyone will agree with that.
To counter your arguement I’d simply say that because defensive counter measures are weaker in no-CP that simply equipping the same offensive procs is not enough. In situations like those it is usually the person who can be more aggressive in the initial 2-3 seconds of the fight that will typically win. Again, I don’t believe this is anything approaching skillful play. If we’re taking about a no-CP duel, then yes, you’re right the more skilled player should win, but open world or BGs where someone can engage you while you’re unaware of their presence it creates absolutely broken situation. If I’m running Surge+Sload+Skoria on my mageblade and I get 2 funnel weaves off before you can react to me then the odds of you winning that fight are almost non-existent. If I’m also running cost poisons then it’s free AP.
CP, while a significantly more balanced environment, allows for a much more forgiving environment due to significantly increased defensive and utility measures available. This means that even without a high level of skill you can often survive as long as you start turtling early enough. This is likely why players feel CP requires less skill, however I don’t feel that’s actually a compelling argument because imo the backbone of skilled competition is the ability to always be competitive within reason, obviously you still have to make good build decisions and such but it’s very very rare that I feel like I’m in a fight that I absolutely can’t compete in.
But again, I think each side has things that prevent it from being a truly competitive and skill based environment. They each present unique challenges but neither requires more skill, simply a proper perspective
ZOS doesnt care if cp or no cp is more/less skillful, PVP is not a skill based game, craft urself sload, pair it with duroks bane, and kill everyone. Thats how pvp works. CP nonCP doesnt ever matter.
SlowMetabolism wrote: »The only people I see saying CP is more skillful are the ones whose argument is that proc sets can carry players in no CP. While true, this sounds like more of a problem with the people implementing procs than the game mode itself. Same could be said for poisons. It all goes back to the devs who think pushing these things into the game is a good idea. I would love to play no CP on Xbox NA but it has 0 bars across the board at all times.
What requires more skill? Try to be objective.
To me it's not clear. Personally I've usually thought non-CP because in non-cp you don't have your CP to help support you-- Just your build and skill. And creating good builds IS a skill. So I'm leaning more toward non-cp. Also non-cp is the more fun game mode.
The problem with CP PVP is it leans too much toward the defensive side of things which might make lesser players seem more tanky than they are.
What do you think?
In terms of open-world Pvp—I've homed Sotha since it released with the Morrowind patch, and always LOVED the no-CP environment due to the quicker fights, and the tougher build decisions that the environment necessitated.
That said, ever since Summerset went live, I've found myself playing more and more in Vivec. Damage levels have simply climbed too high this patch (a combination of 2h=2pcs, and the light attack scaling buffs) for someone to play competitively without the added defensive plays that CP enables... especially when taking incoming damage from multiple players (and to say nothing of Sload's stacking).
For BGs however, no-CP is still very much the way to go, due to the hard-capped number of possible incoming damage sources.