Anyone else losing the motivation to play this game

Iskras · June 2018

Macros, I thought this was against the rules, but I have seen many, including streamers using it. It's a shame to see ESO die at the hands of dishonest people.

zyk · June 2018

Preyfar wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

This is a video of Fengrush executing a Macro Slice -- which doesn't have anything to do with conventional macros.

This confusion is all on ZOS though. The game is vulnerable to memory hacking and other forms of external cheating, plus it has in-game glitches that ZOS is slow to fix -- it takes months to years to fix them -- and the game lacks industry standard cheat mitigation. So there is a natural lack of trust among players who encounter something they either don't know about or are unable to do -- which may be completely legitimate.

Yeah, I'm familiar with how that works, but some them do have issues. Some macros can be used for buffs (weapon swap, buffs, revert back to main bar). Not blaming everything on macros. It's more how bad the combat system is in ESO in general. It's fun to fight, but the combat mechanics have so many issues under the hood that things just seem to break outright.

I agree that it's probable some players use and crutch on macros to execute combos they lack the motor skills to do on their own.

But it's impossible to discern whether a player is using them because when used alone, they don't allow for anything that's not possible without them. A decent player will cancel attacks and buffs with bar swaps effortlessly. The main constraint is lag.

A larger concern are automation tools which go far beyond macros. They can trigger macros based on context sensitive visual and audio cues. Again, though, it's impossible to discern whether a player is using them. This is why cheat mitigation tools are *essential* for online PVP games.

But the whole "5 attacks in 1 second" thing doesn't mean a player is using macros. Unless it's a glitch like a "Macro Slice" (which again doesn't have anything to do with macros) the 5 attacks in 1 second thing is just layered damage which every decent small group player does.

Iskras · June 2018

"But the whole "5 attacks in 1 second" thing doesn't mean a player is using macros."

...

zyk · June 2018

Iskras wrote: »

"But the whole "5 attacks in 1 second" thing doesn't mean a player is using macros."

...

So...

Some attacks have delayed damage like curse and subterranean assault
Some attacks have travel time like ranged light/heavy attacks and abilities including gap closers; by the time they reach a target, the GCD they triggered has expired
Some attacks are procs that don't use the GCD like weapon glyphs, poisons, selene, etc
Some attacks are damage over time which can be applied prior to or as part of a combo and there are also damage over time procs like Sload
Light/heavy atacks can be cancelled by abilities to hit within milliseconds of each other

There are others in the form of proc passives and abilities with direct damage, dot and proc components combined and more...

When you combine those, it's easily possible to hit a player a player with 5 damaging attacks within 1 second.

If you don't understand these things, you have no business of accusing another player of cheating, ever.

Ceepax · June 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Honestly, no, I'm not losing the motivation to play PVP.

1. No, macros aren't allowed and feel feel to report people you think are using them.

2. Cyrodiil was designed for large scale combat between groups of 8 to 24 players, so you might say that zerging was built into the game. There are important objectives - of course lots of players are going to converge on those objectives,

I like objective based play, so I'm at a keep or resource to capture or defend it, not farm or be farmed. I've got no problem with ball groups or zergs (I blame ZOS for the lag), but Im not going to stick around to be farmed. Fortunately, there's plenty of other objectives to capture and defend.

3. ZOS has an unfortunate habit of designing a proc set for the newest content that brings all the PVPers to the yard and it takes an update or two before they nerf it. I'm sure its great for their sales, but it's not healthy for PVP.

NO

Cyrodill was originaly designed for everyone and every playstyle, now the gameplay and performance is garbage. x)

IxSTALKERxI · June 2018

Nothing to do with macro's. Like others mentioned it's just how the game is balanced with proc sets, bleeds, delayed abilities allowing you to line up burst combined with low TTK from power creep / bad balance. Or getting zerged down. Or it'll be lag. If it is none of those things than it'll be a bug that is allowing you to bypass global cool downs such as 'macro slice' bug shown (which has nothing to do with macros). Perhaps there is a new bug like this added into the game this patch that you are experiencing? If so try taking a video and reporting it to zos.

In my opinion, the only macro in ESO that can be used to gain an unfair advantage is a wall repair macro. Can just setup your keyboard to spam q while you have a drink etc, which is only an advantage because you don't get strain injuries like everyone else haha. Other than that, using macro's in pvp to gain an unfair advantage is just a myth and often an excuse used by players who die.

chris211 · June 2018

Waylander07 wrote: »

Having played this game from launch I now find that I have very little motivation to play. I was drawn to this game because of the pvp but between a very toxic community and the widespread use of macros along with the lag and constant crashes it is no longer something that I enjoy. Before anyone accuses me of claiming that anyone who kills me is cheating what I am talking about is when some players instantly hit you with 4 or 5 attacks. Question for Zos? is the use of macros allowed or not because I feel this needs to be made clear and please people don’t try and tell me that this is not happening as it clearly is. My view of anyone who needs to cheat to get ahead is simple, they are cowards.

The other problem I have is the ap collecting zergs that just run around spamming their ultimate’s, I get that they are not breaking any rules but the lag that is caused by these zergs makes the game unplayable. It is also not much fun chasing them around a keep that they seem to have very little interest in capturing. The blame for this playstyle in my opinion lies with the creators who continually make this game less about skill and more about the gear that you wear and (zerg friendly) skills like Eye of flame which is devastating when used by these ultimate zergs.

The gear you ware (again in my opinion) should only slightly improve your damage or stats, sets like Zan are huge damage dealers that do not need much skill to use.
I used to love this game and the excitement from successfully defending a keep or scroll while heavily outnumbered is still hard to beat but between the constant repetitive grind for gear, the many bugs, cheating and cyridiil seemingly becoming more and more zerg orientated, I am now questioning whether my time would be better spent elsewhere.

im getting to the point where im gonna end up taking a long break from eso, its sloads thats making me want to do it, i cant stand that set and a have no respect that uses it

WaltherCarraway · June 2018

Not before I reach Grand Overlord

DoctorESO · June 2018

Waylander07 wrote: »

Having played this game from launch I now find that I have very little motivation to play. I was drawn to this game because of the pvp but between a very toxic community and the widespread use of macros along with the lag and constant crashes it is no longer something that I enjoy. Before anyone accuses me of claiming that anyone who kills me is cheating what I am talking about is when some players instantly hit you with 4 or 5 attacks. Question for Zos? is the use of macros allowed or not because I feel this needs to be made clear and please people don’t try and tell me that this is not happening as it clearly is. My view of anyone who needs to cheat to get ahead is simple, they are cowards.

The other problem I have is the ap collecting zergs that just run around spamming their ultimate’s, I get that they are not breaking any rules but the lag that is caused by these zergs makes the game unplayable. It is also not much fun chasing them around a keep that they seem to have very little interest in capturing. The blame for this playstyle in my opinion lies with the creators who continually make this game less about skill and more about the gear that you wear and (zerg friendly) skills like Eye of flame which is devastating when used by these ultimate zergs.

The gear you ware (again in my opinion) should only slightly improve your damage or stats, sets like Zan are huge damage dealers that do not need much skill to use.
I used to love this game and the excitement from successfully defending a keep or scroll while heavily outnumbered is still hard to beat but between the constant repetitive grind for gear, the many bugs, cheating and cyridiil seemingly becoming more and more zerg orientated, I am now questioning whether my time would be better spent elsewhere.

Check out the PvE side! There's a whole nother world (actually, several) over there!

Hammy01 · June 2018

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Try console. No macros or addons = no cheaters

No addons yes.. but do a quick google search and you will see you can buy macro controllers / software for consoles. I have no idea how well they work but they are out there.

Ashtaris · June 2018

Derra wrote: »

@Waylander07 honest question - do you understand what a macro is and what it allows you to do in a game like elderscrolls?

There was a guy in our guild who openly admitted to using Macro’s, and I know exactly what he used them for. Mainly to set up his buffs, potions, and dots in just a couple of seconds with a one button hit before he even engaged in using his main skills. He didn’t even have to think about his rotation because the macro almost did it entirely for him. So don’t try to come in here and say that Macro’s are not a problem because I won’t buy it.

Derra · June 2018

Waylander07 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

@Waylander07 honest question - do you understand what a macro is and what it allows you to do in a game like elderscrolls?

Let me put it this way, when a player can hit you with 4-5 attacks in 1 second and I am not talking about animation cancelling then something is not right. It is not lag as it only happens with certain players every time you fight them. So whether they do it using macro or something else in my opinion its cheating. Others have noticed this as well.
As for understanding what a macro is and what it allows you to do - from my understanding (I am no expert) with 3rd party software macro users can do what I have experienced.

Ok so thing is - macro software allows you to bind multiple button presses into pressing one hotkey.
It doesn´t allow you to bypass the games gcd of 1s.
It also does not allow you to perform any action that you couldn´t perform yourself (because it only simulates buttonpresses).

It can be more accurate or reliable for people for people having problem pressing multiple buttons per second (as eso combat requires).

The keypoint however is that macros do not allow you to perform actions that you could not input with your mouse and keyboard (except for huge inputs involving more than 10 buttonpresses at once - which are pretty much irrelevant in eso).

What macros do achieve is making the game playable on a somewhat competetive level for people who otherwise couldn´t because of impaired ability to press buttons.

I have never met someone using macros who won over me because they used macros - because those dont allow you to perform something the game doesn´t allow itself - and as a consequence a healthy human wouldn´t be able to input with their hands.

amir412 · June 2018

Derra wrote: »

@Waylander07 honest question - do you understand what a macro is and what it allows you to do in a game like elderscrolls?

I bet he just complains about a normal ani cancel.

Vapirko · June 2018

Not likely macros so much as it is custom keybinds that allow them to bash cancel really fast. Also when you bind you attacks to mouse keys, not only is it faster but you don’t have to take your fingers off the directional keys and stop moving around. The attacks all going off at once is lag though, as even macros have to adhere to the global cooldown.

As to the cheap procs and general bs of PvP well I agree with you there. It’s frustrating. My advice is to limit play time or start to form a team. There is no more solo play. At best you can form a DD and Templar heal tank duo if you want to have a chance is most situations against players who aren’t complete noobs.

Waylander07 · June 2018

amir412 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

@Waylander07 honest question - do you understand what a macro is and what it allows you to do in a game like elderscrolls?

I bet he just complains about a normal ani cancel.

You would lose that bet

As I have mentioned this is not lag as it only happens with certain players, if it is not macros then it is something else that gives players an unfair advantage. One player hit me with 5 attacks including 2 subterranean assaults, apart from finishing the attack with a shield bash the other 2 attacks were skills not light attacks. This happened twice against the same player, fights lasted about 2 seconds and the player used the same combination of attacks both times. Now I understand that subterranean assault can be timed to land along with another skill and a light attack all at the same time but the second one should have taken 3 secs to proc. My combat log showed all 5 attacks happened at the same time.

I have also been killed by a player landing 2 different ultimate’s in a very short space of time, which showed up on my death screen though that was over a year ago. I have a pic of that screen shot somewhere.

The point I am trying to make, and I know that a lot of people agree with me is that the game in my opinion is heading in the wrong direction. This was a game that at one time I really enjoyed, sadly that is no longer the case.

I have also tried the pve side but found it repetitive and not for me, playing in Cyridiil was what made me buy the game.

Time will tell if I stop playing or not, but I have went from playing every day to 2-3 times a week and have not played in the last 3 days. I was just wondering how many others felt the same as me, hence the forum post.

Etaniel · June 2018

Waylander07 wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

@Waylander07 honest question - do you understand what a macro is and what it allows you to do in a game like elderscrolls?

I bet he just complains about a normal ani cancel.

You would lose that bet

As I have mentioned this is not lag as it only happens with certain players, if it is not macros then it is something else that gives players an unfair advantage. One player hit me with 5 attacks including 2 subterranean assaults, apart from finishing the attack with a shield bash the other 2 attacks were skills not light attacks. This happened twice against the same player, fights lasted about 2 seconds and the player used the same combination of attacks both times. Now I understand that subterranean assault can be timed to land along with another skill and a light attack all at the same time but the second one should have taken 3 secs to proc. My combat log showed all 5 attacks happened at the same time.

I have also been killed by a player landing 2 different ultimate’s in a very short space of time, which showed up on my death screen though that was over a year ago. I have a pic of that screen shot somewhere.

The point I am trying to make, and I know that a lot of people agree with me is that the game in my opinion is heading in the wrong direction. This was a game that at one time I really enjoyed, sadly that is no longer the case.

I have also tried the pve side but found it repetitive and not for me, playing in Cyridiil was what made me buy the game.

Time will tell if I stop playing or not, but I have went from playing every day to 2-3 times a week and have not played in the last 3 days. I was just wondering how many others felt the same as me, hence the forum post.

please post a video of your experience. It happens very often when I play that I feel like I was oneshotted or someone abused some game system, I record it, and when I check it, I just realise that my reflexes weren't fast enough, or that I didn't pay enough attention, and in the end nothing was fishy.

Waylander07 · June 2018

Etaniel wrote: »

Waylander07 wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

@Waylander07 honest question - do you understand what a macro is and what it allows you to do in a game like elderscrolls?

I bet he just complains about a normal ani cancel.

You would lose that bet

As I have mentioned this is not lag as it only happens with certain players, if it is not macros then it is something else that gives players an unfair advantage. One player hit me with 5 attacks including 2 subterranean assaults, apart from finishing the attack with a shield bash the other 2 attacks were skills not light attacks. This happened twice against the same player, fights lasted about 2 seconds and the player used the same combination of attacks both times. Now I understand that subterranean assault can be timed to land along with another skill and a light attack all at the same time but the second one should have taken 3 secs to proc. My combat log showed all 5 attacks happened at the same time.

I have also been killed by a player landing 2 different ultimate’s in a very short space of time, which showed up on my death screen though that was over a year ago. I have a pic of that screen shot somewhere.

The point I am trying to make, and I know that a lot of people agree with me is that the game in my opinion is heading in the wrong direction. This was a game that at one time I really enjoyed, sadly that is no longer the case.

I have also tried the pve side but found it repetitive and not for me, playing in Cyridiil was what made me buy the game.

Time will tell if I stop playing or not, but I have went from playing every day to 2-3 times a week and have not played in the last 3 days. I was just wondering how many others felt the same as me, hence the forum post.

please post a video of your experience. It happens very often when I play that I feel like I was oneshotted or someone abused some game system, I record it, and when I check it, I just realise that my reflexes weren't fast enough, or that I didn't pay enough attention, and in the end nothing was fishy.

I never recorded it but i did check my combat log when it happened which showed that all blows landed at the same time as i have already mentioned.

Etaniel · June 2018

Waylander07 wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Waylander07 wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

@Waylander07 honest question - do you understand what a macro is and what it allows you to do in a game like elderscrolls?

I bet he just complains about a normal ani cancel.

You would lose that bet

As I have mentioned this is not lag as it only happens with certain players, if it is not macros then it is something else that gives players an unfair advantage. One player hit me with 5 attacks including 2 subterranean assaults, apart from finishing the attack with a shield bash the other 2 attacks were skills not light attacks. This happened twice against the same player, fights lasted about 2 seconds and the player used the same combination of attacks both times. Now I understand that subterranean assault can be timed to land along with another skill and a light attack all at the same time but the second one should have taken 3 secs to proc. My combat log showed all 5 attacks happened at the same time.

I have also been killed by a player landing 2 different ultimate’s in a very short space of time, which showed up on my death screen though that was over a year ago. I have a pic of that screen shot somewhere.

The point I am trying to make, and I know that a lot of people agree with me is that the game in my opinion is heading in the wrong direction. This was a game that at one time I really enjoyed, sadly that is no longer the case.

I have also tried the pve side but found it repetitive and not for me, playing in Cyridiil was what made me buy the game.

Time will tell if I stop playing or not, but I have went from playing every day to 2-3 times a week and have not played in the last 3 days. I was just wondering how many others felt the same as me, hence the forum post.

please post a video of your experience. It happens very often when I play that I feel like I was oneshotted or someone abused some game system, I record it, and when I check it, I just realise that my reflexes weren't fast enough, or that I didn't pay enough attention, and in the end nothing was fishy.

I never recorded it but i did check my combat log when it happened which showed that all blows landed at the same time as i have already mentioned.

Screenshot of your combat log will do then. But it's most likely lag, server takes time to process it and in an attempt to catch up, sends back the attacks all at once

Waylander07 · June 2018

Etaniel

please post a video of your experience. It happens very often when I play that I feel like I was oneshotted or someone abused some game system, I record it, and when I check it, I just realise that my reflexes weren't fast enough, or that I didn't pay enough attention, and in the end nothing was fishy.[/quote]

Screenshot of your combat log will do then. But it's most likely lag, server takes time to process it and in an attempt to catch up, sends back the attacks all at once

I never took a screenshot but please post your video where you felt like you were oneshotted so i can compare it to my experience and see if it is the same.

Yuke · June 2018

what attacks did have in the combat log? A stamdk with msa axe, claw and double poisons slotted can give you up to 6 dots just by crit charging you into a claw attack

claw has such a short animation that people most of the time dont even see it and it can proc axe bleeding.

So in the worst case you get:

MSA Axe Dot
Claw Dot
Axe Bleeding
Poison
Poison
Poisoned Status

And all you saw was a sDK crit charge you.

SshadowSscale · June 2018

Yeah I have to admit after about 3 years I just dont feel like playing anymore cyrodil is still same old cyrodil stealth is broken again bugs starting to pile up with very few fixes overpriced items in crownstore....and look at how many bug threads there currently are on the forums plus there is still no necro class/skill line and devs also dont care about pvp....pve zones are full of bot trains etc...

frozywozy · June 2018

what are those delayed abilities, procs and ani cancels u guys are talking about? when I die it's either because I was alt tab, eating with one hand on the keyboard, talking in voice comm with a friend and not paying attention, or it's because my opponent was obviously using macros and proc sets cheater exploits. i don't even understand why zenimax allowed this to be possible to begin with. those guys are literally the plague of cyrodiil, pls address quick before I unsub thx

Komma · June 2018

I used to LOVE cyrodill. I spent 28 hours straight out there once and there would be non stop, action packed fun with enjoyable fights. Its just different now. The armor procs, the insta deaths. You guys can cry lag all you want but when you see someone charge you and not even finish the one animation and you are dead it is an issue. Getting hit with 4 seperate attacks and 2 procs in less than one second isnt lag it is people abusing a broken system or maybe even worse.

On a brighter note ZOS has done a beautiful job with pve content. Loving it more and more. Shame it doesnt have good pvp anymore to make it the perfect combination. =(

ezeepeezee · June 2018

When they removed proc set crits and adjusted the sets, I gained a little faith.
When they removed AoE caps, I gained a little faith.

Then they added Zaan.
Then they added Sloads.

The lack of vision is why I don't play much anymore.
I don't think anybody at Zenimax is actually capable of playing this game at peak performance.

They chose class representatives, which is a start, but with the caveat that they will have basically nothing but verbal/written input in design choices.

It's all very odd. You would think that making the game more competitive, more balanced, would bring more players. Sure, there are people out there who just want to relax and don't want a challenge when they play. But... this game has plenty of that. Like months worth of that. The PVP should be skil-based and competitive, especially when the rest of the game isn't.

I think whoever is telling them that making the game more casual friendly needs to be removed from their position. That is NOT what drives players to play (and enjoy) massive multiplayer PvP games.

Willard · June 2018

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Try console. No macros or addons = no cheaters

One of the main reasons I switched from PC to PS4! I think people can still get a moded controller on console, but they are few and far between. Overall, I enjoy the game way more on PS4 than I ever did on PC.

olsborg · June 2018

The lagg in pvp sure is a killer of morale. But the constant introduction of broken sets like sloads etc that shove the meta into a cancerly mess is just as much a killer imo

Minno · June 2018

Preyfar wrote: »

I left for about a year and came back (I hated, hated, hated Morrowind) and wanted to give it a chance again with Summerset.

As a single/multiplayer MMO this game is great. Overworld? Questing? Raids? Dungeons? FANTASTIC! Tons of stuff to do, great story, solid acting, and with a large variety of depth.

PVP falls flat on its face. When the combat's good and fights are heated the PVP shines like a brilliant diamond, but there's so much downtime. The flow of action is terrible with too many luls in between combat. But for player to play combat alone give the PVP a 3 out of 5.

The bigger problem is Cyrodiil in general. It's the worst of all the zones design-wise. It's as big and vast as it is empty. The three factions are supposedly engaged in an epic war... yet there's virtually no signs of of this epic clash. Sure, I get it, the players are supposed to fill that roll, but when combat dies down or you go exploring off the beaten path you're left with nothing but empty landscapes. There are really no signs of this epic three banner war in any way, shape, or form. There's nothing worth fighting for in Cyrodiil. Sure, Imperial City is sprawling and interesting, but the rest of Cyrodiil is dead. Try to find quests to run outside of the three cities. Try to find any points of interest. Sure, there are some, but you could spend a metric ton of time looking for them and never find one. Oddly, there's tons of really decently designed delves. They nailed that part down.

I don't think ZOS had a proper vision for what the zone should be... or if they did they gave up half way through. There are towers and other areas where they started decorating but clearly stopped. Four years in and it still feels like ZOS just gave up on Cyrodiil's development and has no plans to go back and finish it. If it feels like ZOS cares about Cyrodiil why will the players?

And bugs. There are still NPC mobs which are bugged (they move at 3-4X speed). The zone has notorious graphics issues with the low quality LOD landscape overlaying are high quality, buildings and trees blinking in and out between thier low and high states, gameplay issues, combat bugs, etc. Never mind the exploits. An exploit in the main game? Let's take the game offline and patch it. Exploits in Cyrodiil? Sometimes they last for months, and the same people you see exploiting them day in and day out are still there ages later.

Then you add in PVP servers which are nearly void of players.

What's the end game with Cyrodiil? Just wait for players to dwindle down and get bored of it, then convert the zone to a single player one? Cyrodiil is just in a sad state of affairs.

Based on what I'm reading in the main quest, I'd put my money on cyro being turned into a pve zone with the death of the 3 alliances.

If they didn't make heavy cyro changes outside of score this patch, it's highly unlikely they will never get a chance to given that Summerset was kinda a cleanup chapter.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Honestly, no, I'm not losing the motivation to play PVP.

1. No, macros aren't allowed and feel feel to report people you think are using them.

2. Cyrodiil was designed for large scale combat between groups of 8 to 24 players, so you might say that zerging was built into the game. There are important objectives - of course lots of players are going to converge on those objectives,

I like objective based play, so I'm at a keep or resource to capture or defend it, not farm or be farmed. I've got no problem with ball groups or zergs (I blame ZOS for the lag), but Im not going to stick around to be farmed. Fortunately, there's plenty of other objectives to capture and defend.

3. ZOS has an unfortunate habit of designing a proc set for the newest content that brings all the PVPers to the yard and it takes an update or two before they nerf it. I'm sure its great for their sales, but it's not healthy for PVP.

This is why (and I've always been consistent on this) I'm against Set Bonus generally speaking. If there were upgrade slots you can put 'bonus' into that would be a different thing, but the Set Bonus system has been played out in other games and I've been through that rodeo. It is always destabilizing and its a way of falsely reviving action in the player base. The problem with this is that it is not a skill based, story based, enjoyment based upspike in activity. People who are playing at the peak want to keep their standing and therefore will grind the new uber set and therefore try the new content whether they like it or not. The problem with this is that unless they are youtubers/twitchers making a living off of this they are going to realize that the game has become a job and not an enjoyment. I've seen this on more than a few games now and eventually what you end up with is a few highly addicted players lording over masses of people who have no clue what is going on. The mid level player who is potentially of high skill but doesn't care to make the game a job will leave, time and again. This happened on STO with many friends of mine, some of whom were die-hard 'Star Trek can do no wrong' types. They ultimately quit because they had pesky things like jobs, wives, children, vacations, and a desire for variety in their lives. The addiction/casino mindset that is behind Videogaming is precisely what is pushing me away from the videogame world. I don't like feeling played by these companies. Provide us a good product. We'll enjoy it and quite possibly will spend excessive hours doing so. If you truly believe you're going to keep us hooked forever though I think you have another thing coming.

The problem isn't just MMO's either. Multiple studios have harmed their reputation based on this attitude that we are dumb cattle lining up to be milked of our cash. We are no longer customers (human beings) who are trading quid pro quo. We are not equals by any stretch of the imagination. This kind of mindset is only slightly disparate from that of Capone and those of us who have enjoyed videogames in the past as a pastime I do believe are starting to walk away. ESO is quite literally my last MMO and will likely be my last video game at this point. I have other interests. I use to surf. I fish. I hunt. I swim. I hike. I run. I weightlift. I do martial arts. I also want to build a cabin some day with my own two hands. Videogames are hardly my only interest. Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim were worth the price of entry. ESO is often worth the price of entry but even then when you look at the cost of some items (loot boxes, outfit slots, etc) it becomes ridiculous, particularly when you look at the actual effort it took to fleece you for those items. STO does the same thing with its ships, essentially cranking up the numbers, adding a few widgets to a ship model and tossing it on the population for $50-100 for a ship (essentially what amounts to part a gear set in this game). At the least ESO for the most part is selling unimportant items for these prices but lets not mince words here: We all see what is going on and even those of us who can afford the cost don't like the feeling we're being played.

I know it seems I'm being tangential in discussing the casino-psychological aspects of the industry but I think it directly applies to elements of addiction, activity, and sales within MMO's. They rig the system by downgrading player-efforts of the past and upgrading some newly released content in an imbalanced way. The goal should be greater and greater balance and fun. Players are often so comfortably numb at this point they don't even realize they are jamming the morphine button with their thumbs. They believe the lie that more gear sets are good for them. Really? Gear progression is really why you play a video game? I know when I play a game of pool I'm not dreaming of a better cue every round as I upgrade my levels... I don't dream of more magical basketball shorts if I'm playing basketball either. Food for Thought.

Waylander07 · June 2018

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Honestly, no, I'm not losing the motivation to play PVP.

1. No, macros aren't allowed and feel feel to report people you think are using them.

2. Cyrodiil was designed for large scale combat between groups of 8 to 24 players, so you might say that zerging was built into the game. There are important objectives - of course lots of players are going to converge on those objectives,

I like objective based play, so I'm at a keep or resource to capture or defend it, not farm or be farmed. I've got no problem with ball groups or zergs (I blame ZOS for the lag), but Im not going to stick around to be farmed. Fortunately, there's plenty of other objectives to capture and defend.

3. ZOS has an unfortunate habit of designing a proc set for the newest content that brings all the PVPers to the yard and it takes an update or two before they nerf it. I'm sure its great for their sales, but it's not healthy for PVP.

This is why (and I've always been consistent on this) I'm against Set Bonus generally speaking. If there were upgrade slots you can put 'bonus' into that would be a different thing, but the Set Bonus system has been played out in other games and I've been through that rodeo. It is always destabilizing and its a way of falsely reviving action in the player base. The problem with this is that it is not a skill based, story based, enjoyment based upspike in activity. People who are playing at the peak want to keep their standing and therefore will grind the new uber set and therefore try the new content whether they like it or not. The problem with this is that unless they are youtubers/twitchers making a living off of this they are going to realize that the game has become a job and not an enjoyment. I've seen this on more than a few games now and eventually what you end up with is a few highly addicted players lording over masses of people who have no clue what is going on. The mid level player who is potentially of high skill but doesn't care to make the game a job will leave, time and again. This happened on STO with many friends of mine, some of whom were die-hard 'Star Trek can do no wrong' types. They ultimately quit because they had pesky things like jobs, wives, children, vacations, and a desire for variety in their lives. The addiction/casino mindset that is behind Videogaming is precisely what is pushing me away from the videogame world. I don't like feeling played by these companies. Provide us a good product. We'll enjoy it and quite possibly will spend excessive hours doing so. If you truly believe you're going to keep us hooked forever though I think you have another thing coming.

The problem isn't just MMO's either. Multiple studios have harmed their reputation based on this attitude that we are dumb cattle lining up to be milked of our cash. We are no longer customers (human beings) who are trading quid pro quo. We are not equals by any stretch of the imagination. This kind of mindset is only slightly disparate from that of Capone and those of us who have enjoyed videogames in the past as a pastime I do believe are starting to walk away. ESO is quite literally my last MMO and will likely be my last video game at this point. I have other interests. I use to surf. I fish. I hunt. I swim. I hike. I run. I weightlift. I do martial arts. I also want to build a cabin some day with my own two hands. Videogames are hardly my only interest. Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim were worth the price of entry. ESO is often worth the price of entry but even then when you look at the cost of some items (loot boxes, outfit slots, etc) it becomes ridiculous, particularly when you look at the actual effort it took to fleece you for those items. STO does the same thing with its ships, essentially cranking up the numbers, adding a few widgets to a ship model and tossing it on the population for $50-100 for a ship (essentially what amounts to part a gear set in this game). At the least ESO for the most part is selling unimportant items for these prices but lets not mince words here: We all see what is going on and even those of us who can afford the cost don't like the feeling we're being played.

I know it seems I'm being tangential in discussing the casino-psychological aspects of the industry but I think it directly applies to elements of addiction, activity, and sales within MMO's. They rig the system by downgrading player-efforts of the past and upgrading some newly released content in an imbalanced way. The goal should be greater and greater balance and fun. Players are often so comfortably numb at this point they don't even realize they are jamming the morphine button with their thumbs. They believe the lie that more gear sets are good for them. Really? Gear progression is really why you play a video game? I know when I play a game of pool I'm not dreaming of a better cue every round as I upgrade my levels... I don't dream of more magical basketball shorts if I'm playing basketball either. Food for Thought.

I couldn’t agree more, I feel that this game is like a big budget film that has loads of special effects but little in the way of depth or story. I have been thinking of walking away from this game for a while now, but its not easy to walk away from 4 years of grind and effort.

Unlike you I am housebound due to illness so outside of watching tv and playing games there is not a lot else in my life. I used to love wild camping, photography and going for long walks, now I play a game that feels more like an unpaid job or watch mindless tv shows lol. I think maybe the time has come to end my addiction to this game and find something else to do.

Joosef_Kivikilpi · June 2018

All I want is for them to populate Cyrodiil to actually not feel EMPTY. Make all those ruined doorways into large dungeons. Make underground dungeons connect to others. Make ruins. Make abandoned outposts that can be captured and defended by guilds for guild-specific spawn points or something. Give us territory we can put our name to and make it our own. Allow us to build wooden outposts similar to the imperial palisade outpost heading east towards Glademist Keep. Give us the ability to make Cyrodiil our own in some personalized way, so we can invest in protecting our own with more loyalty, as well as our faction. Grant faction loyalty bonuses in some way.

Much can be done to really make it feel worthwhile.