[Class Rep] Tanking Feedback Thread

Dedricus · June 2018

WhiteNoiseMaker wrote: »

I think you confused me with another poster. I never called Ebon garbage. I merely commented that what was supposed to be one tool amongst many in the tanking toolbox, has instead become an expectation from grubby DD's.

I totally did! It was @josiahva that said it. I'm sorry about that. And, agreed. DPS do rely on it. While it should be more of an asset, there is a level of dependence on ebon and that's not good.

Thorstienn · June 2018

Top 2 pain points with tanking?
1. One shot mechanics! What's the pint in being a meatshield if you die anyway? May as well wear a DPS set with a an enchantment buff set.
2. Frost staff! Change some of the morphs of destro abilities to do something useful for tanks with a frost staff (not all, keep some for the crazy Ice staff DPSers)

Ajitator · June 2018

Ajitator wrote: »

1. Vet Maw Shatter mechanics/timing on Console - This is nearly impossible to dodge in comparison to PC. Please fix the timing on this.

Are there other people on console with this issue? Or am I just bad?

Carcharodontosaurus · June 2018

I feel like any points I'd make have already been covered but I'll air them anyway.
1. I wish the support tanking sets offered more extra health, so I'm not sacrificing health for utility.
2. Make more abilities that scale off health rather than magicka or stamina

Takuto · June 2018

1) Sets and abilities used by tanks as uninteresting, low value (not useful), trash.
2) Tanking is boring and intrinsically unchallenging.

The main problem with tanking in ESO is that improving your 'tankiness' via sets, and abilities doesn't create additional value, almost without fail, they simply make your character take less damage or have more health.

Remember, the adage, the only hit point that matters is your last one.

This wouldn't be a problem, except that sets and abilities used for tanking have been designed with the assumption that the more min-maxed you are on tankiness (health, resist, etc.) the 'stronger' you will be.

While DPS that hits harder has the value of making fights shorter. Assuming the tank can survive a particular fight, how much punishment they take in the process makes no difference to the group.

The true challenge to building a tank is to build one that provides something the group needs to finish the fight faster and safer. The reason this is a challenge, is there is almost nothing in the players box of tools to help with this.

I'd really like to see a series of abilities/sets which utilize standardized debuffs to increase the group's damage on a target, but which wouldn't be available in the typical healer or DPS build. I'd like something like Major Vulnerability, or a debuff which increases damage taken from a given element or increases spell/weapon power against a target.

Some examples:
An ability or ultimate which casts Major Vulnerability on a target, and Major
Maim on the caster (the latter debuff causing it to be self-defeating on non-tanks).

kichwas · June 2018

I think tanking needs a basic overhaul of how 'taunt' and 'aggro' works.

Tanking here works with 3 different single-target 15-second taunts.
1H/Shield
Undaunted
Frost staff

Having to hit just that 1 skill once ever 15 seconds on ever creature in a pull is... clunky.

In most MMOs there is an agro mechanic. Get into 'tank mode' and your attacks just generate more 'threat' against enemies - so you can weave various attacks to generate attention, including single-target and AoE.

Modern MMOs make getting all of that threat TOO EASY...

So I would not copy them.

But the 'taunt it every 15 seconds' method is just as bad... it's a guaranteed grab, but you have to spam it and you have to run around spamming it on everything individually...

Messy...

WhiteNoiseMaker · June 2018

Takuto wrote: »

The true challenge to building a tank is to build one that provides something the group needs to finish the fight faster and safer. The reason this is a challenge, is there is almost nothing in the players box of tools to help with this.

This is the dangerous slippery slope mentality that has created the current META. While it's true that the longer a fight persists, the more chance of a critical error causing a wipe occurs, the fact is that the emphasis on DAMAGE has caused the support roles, notably tanking, to degrade in quality.

What I think the role needs more of is the ability to protect the group as a whole, to extend the ability to weather and survive onto a group level. Something like changing the Guard ability from a targeted power to working on the nearest three party members in a way similar to the way Automated Defense set functions. I think sets like Brands of the Imperium and Lord Warden were on a smarter track, extending shields and 'tankiness' to one's fellow party members. Perhaps a Tank version of something like Gossamer might be appropriate.

I believe that your words above are still true, but we need to extend our emphasis from the "Faster" to the "Safer" aspect. I'd also like to see the Devs abandon rage timers and DPS races in favor of other more original mechanics for Vet DLC and Trial mechanics. Other games have objectives that slow down the DPS race and instead focus on capture, carry, and disposal of key elites and minibosses in order to defeat a primary boss. Other examples include multiple puzzle activation at different ends of a map simultaneously, or strategic use of terrain to sustain a long fight. DCUO's Fortress of Solitude bridge fight is a CLASSIC example of a battle where and how a tank excels in, but they also give their tanks far, far, far better CC options than ESO does. I only wish we tanks had such options in ESO.

Juhasow · June 2018

My pain point is how much damage people can do in PvP while holding the block and basicly beeing a tank that do damage comparable to DD setups. They loose barely anything from offense since blocking is not wasting any cast times which is huge deal in fights but gain 50% dmg reduction , immunity to most of the critical hits and most of the CC effects. All of that while still keeping high damage pressure on enemie.

Few builds abuses it too much currently to the point the're almost permablocking and keeping high damage pressure on enemie that is unable to touch them. Block should have some drawbacks other then stam regen halt.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

My pain point is how much damage people can do in PvP while holding the block and basicly beeing a tank that do damage comparable to DD setups. They loose barely anything from offense since blocking is not wasting any cast times which is huge deal in fights but gain 50% dmg reduction , immunity to most of the critical hits and most of the CC effects. All of that while still keeping high damage pressure on enemie.

Few builds abuses it too much currently to the point the're almost permablocking and keeping high damage pressure on enemie that is unable to touch them. Block should have some drawbacks other then stam regen halt.

The stamina regeneration halt is heinous. They should have handled this (and the resistance from blocking) differently.

RavenSworn · June 2018

WhiteNoiseMaker wrote: »

Takuto wrote: »

The true challenge to building a tank is to build one that provides something the group needs to finish the fight faster and safer. The reason this is a challenge, is there is almost nothing in the players box of tools to help with this.

This is the dangerous slippery slope mentality that has created the current META. While it's true that the longer a fight persists, the more chance of a critical error causing a wipe occurs, the fact is that the emphasis on DAMAGE has caused the support roles, notably tanking, to degrade in quality.

What I think the role needs more of is the ability to protect the group as a whole, to extend the ability to weather and survive onto a group level. Something like changing the Guard ability from a targeted power to working on the nearest three party members in a way similar to the way Automated Defense set functions. I think sets like Brands of the Imperium and Lord Warden were on a smarter track, extending shields and 'tankiness' to one's fellow party members. Perhaps a Tank version of something like Gossamer might be appropriate.

I believe that your words above are still true, but we need to extend our emphasis from the "Faster" to the "Safer" aspect. I'd also like to see the Devs abandon rage timers and DPS races in favor of other more original mechanics for Vet DLC and Trial mechanics. Other games have objectives that slow down the DPS race and instead focus on capture, carry, and disposal of key elites and minibosses in order to defeat a primary boss. Other examples include multiple puzzle activation at different ends of a map simultaneously, or strategic use of terrain to sustain a long fight. DCUO's Fortress of Solitude bridge fight is a CLASSIC example of a battle where and how a tank excels in, but they also give their tanks far, far, far better CC options than ESO does. I only wish we tanks had such options in ESO.

Multiple times yes! I'd wager, one of the best raid fights I've had was the "dance" fight in Naxxramas WoW. Or if anyone had done that chtulu boss in TSW. TSW had dungeon fights that makes some of the raid fights in eso cry in vain. The mechanics and the bosses had so much value in them.

Tanking is a must in almost all of the fights but in eso... It's becoming like a joke.

worsttankever · June 2018

(1) Mechanics that are immune to taunt/block/mitigation and slow and steady progress. I’m thinking Shadows of the Hist, Ruins of Mazzatun, specifically Xal-Nur . That spice induced charge mechanic destroys the party’s cohesion and people start to drop. I really hate tanking those DLC dungeons.

(2) Leveling in PVE/under 50 as a tank. You need a separate spec completely. I feel bad when people ask “how do I level a tank?” (You don’t).

Oxalias · June 2018

Topic: PvP Mega Tanking - And how it's almost impossible these days especially in non-cp environments. This will describe the reasons why mega tanking is near impossible currently and compare to a time roughly around one Tamriel where mega tanking was still possible although difficult.

Okay, so I've been waiting a long time for the devs to care about tanking.

My points are only going to be related to PVP 'mega tanking' as I like to call it. A mega tank in PVP is someone that does NO damage but sits and absorbs all the damage in breeches, from zergs, and self-heals it. Since one Tamriel and earlier, the game has been slowly nerfing mega tanking to the point where in no cp, I can only tank Three good players for a small amount before dying. I understand this isn't a playstyle that fits many people, but it is still a very helpful role in alliance wars and is rewarding for the few that enjoy it. However, this playstyle has been slowly nerfed and diminished.

The first reason for this is because of the blocking cost increase, and a weakness in the damage reduction of tanking mega tanking, you take too much damage, then what is healable. Mega tanking is a complicated process of dealing with the incoming damage from more than 10 people, healing it while managing stamina to keep blocking. It sounds simple, but when taking damage from 10+ People, and avoiding siege fire, it becomes a lot harder very quickly.

I understand that the developers of the game don't like half-tanks, admittingly in PvP, these destroy the balance of the game because players shouldn't be given the option to be super tanky by just swapping to a sword and shield bar. Therefore I have developed a solution that would fix this problem, make one of the morphs of Defensive Posture (Preferably the magic absorbing one), a toggle ability that dramatically increases the amount of damage blocking does and lowers the cost significantly when this is toggled too. (The reasoning is, because as a toggle ability, it is required to be placed on both weapon bars) As a safety precaution, I recommend that this passive also reduces your damage done to enemy players to reinforce, the sacrifice of damage that is required to reach this level of tanking. And as a triple safety procedure, make the cost of this morph to be immensely expensive 20000k stamina. (This seems ridiculous, but it's not if given the chance players would cast this ability to tank until they had their resources back.) so it's not viable for people trying to use it to tank on one bar.

Now the second problem that is causing the death of mega tanking is the increased damage of players and the unmitigated damage or the damage that isn't mitigated by blocking, the dots (Poisons, Bleeds, Oblivion damage, Zaans, and AOE). As someone that has developed their playstyle to be unkillable, and the skill comes from managing your heals, resources and trying to escape siege, it's unfair that one player can tear a tower down. It's also hard to maintain the amount of damage that abilities that aren't affected by shields do to tanks. I can't stress how much of a problem this is. It's is so debilitating, that it makes the above point seem tiny in comparison. It's ridiculous how many abilities are not mitigated by blocking, and this is especially tough in a non-cp setting. To put it into perspective, if you are a trying to tank 10 people, and you are barely managing to do so, but you are using your skill to stay alive, then there comes one person with let's say for arguments sake that they have, bleeds, zaans, and sloads (oblivion damage), none of these damages are going to be reduced by blocking, tanks and a tank will die in a matter of seconds. There is no possible way for a tank reduce the damage from this. Especially Oblivion damage which ignores everything. These damages are very commonly used in PvP, and has rendered mega tanking useless, even small groups of 2-3 can melt a mega tank down using these types of damages. Purging is too expensive for most classes to run, it only removes two effects for a high cost of 5k magicka.

Earthgore is an excellent start to this problem, but only removes one effect.

My suggestion is that you should add a passive in the tanking line that goes somewhere like this - When blocking 15 consecutive attacks, remove one negative effect or something like that.

Or reworks bleeds, because dots are not aren't PvP friendly.

exiars10 · June 2018

Almost everything is covered but I will write on my own. Sorry for repeating but more people voice the same problem the better.

I stopped tanking on my Warden in PUG (the same story like healing) unless friend or some guild mate asks me. The only good thing about being a PUG tank is that you can level Undaunted very fast, also to get all those skill points from dungeon quests very fast and get Monster helm you need for the simple reason - queue time is almost always instant! Why is that instant? Lets see.

Just read countless threads in forum how moar DPS is solution for everything and tanks (& healers) are just buff bots/NPCs. Healers are already completely discounted from the most veteran dungeon HM non-DLC runs. It's all about DPS and more DPS. Just skip mechanics with more DPS.

ESO is W40K Orks' meme - not 'nough dakka i.e. there is never enough dakka!

And then those same DDs moan how there are no real tanks when they hit really hard content? How the f... to have proper tanks when you can't learn properly tanking when solution for everything is more dakka?

Being a tank in overland content is very tedious if you copy/paste trial meta. You can't do a s... properly and then you wonder why nobody wants to tank. But, but, use DD gear for overland content - how new players can afford to have multiply sets and to pay constant respecting CP, skills and attributes? They can't so why bother tanking when you can be a DD and do all content much more efficient, cheaper, you earn a lot of more money plus it's great for ego.

And f... Roar of Alkosh, medium set forced on tanks.

P. S.
Somebody posted last evening thread in ESO subreddit. I agree with many things s/he posted. If somebody wants, copy it here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/8ntue6/tanking_in_eso_is_poorly_implemented_and_unfun/

witchdoctor · June 2018

WhiteNoiseMaker wrote: »

Other games have objectives ...

Or even something as 'basic' as a mechanic [taken from a raid in SWTOR] where at times a role has to enter a different area and either outheal, outDPS, or survive a challenge.

Diatonic · June 2018

1. Having block drop when swapping bars
2. Being punished with 1 shot mechanics when dropping block. Penalised us with heavy dmg/stuns but don’t cheese it with 1 shots.

AlphaWolfBeast · June 2018

1. Give Werewolves a taunt, werewolves have great sustain for tanking please give them some taunt morphs.

Thorstienn · June 2018

WhiteNoiseMaker wrote: »

Takuto wrote: »

The true challenge to building a tank is to build one that provides something the group needs to finish the fight faster and safer. The reason this is a challenge, is there is almost nothing in the players box of tools to help with this.

This is the dangerous slippery slope mentality that has created the current META. While it's true that the longer a fight persists, the more chance of a critical error causing a wipe occurs, the fact is that the emphasis on DAMAGE has caused the support roles, notably tanking, to degrade in quality.

What I think the role needs more of is the ability to protect the group as a whole, to extend the ability to weather and survive onto a group level. Something like changing the Guard ability from a targeted power to working on the nearest three party members in a way similar to the way Automated Defense set functions. I think sets like Brands of the Imperium and Lord Warden were on a smarter track, extending shields and 'tankiness' to one's fellow party members. Perhaps a Tank version of something like Gossamer might be appropriate.

I believe that your words above are still true, but we need to extend our emphasis from the "Faster" to the "Safer" aspect. I'd also like to see the Devs abandon rage timers and DPS races in favor of other more original mechanics for Vet DLC and Trial mechanics. Other games have objectives that slow down the DPS race and instead focus on capture, carry, and disposal of key elites and minibosses in order to defeat a primary boss. Other examples include multiple puzzle activation at different ends of a map simultaneously, or strategic use of terrain to sustain a long fight. DCUO's Fortress of Solitude bridge fight is a CLASSIC example of a battle where and how a tank excels in, but they also give their tanks far, far, far better CC options than ESO does. I only wish we tanks had such options in ESO.

I agree with what you say in the whole.
But you brought up DCUO (a love hate for me), and I think that's fantastic. That was truly a play as you want kind of game... However, it wasn't a trinity! It was a "squarnity" as it had the true SUPPORT role. An addition to this game that I think would help a lot (with some other changes of course)

RavenSworn · June 2018

A proper support role would be excellent at this point, aside from tanks and healers.

Right now, the dungeon mechanics gives too much leeway to more dps, than to better survivability. ZoS needs to change some of the trash mechanics to suit tanks and healers, rather than just dps wailing on the mobs.

xI_The_Owl_Ix · June 2018

PvP/Cyrodiil
- Theres no need to run a Tank in Cyrodiil. You barely get any AP for defending/debuffing/blocking enemy Players. I run a Minor/Major Defile Tank and I see that I help by debuffing people to the point where they cant heal themselves, but I dont benefit from it all. It feels like Im helping other players get AP instead of actually getting AP for helping.
Suggestions:
Make the "Guard" Skill give AP to the guarding Tank after absorbing enough damage or when the guarded Player gets a kill (but only if you absorbed damage before).
Give AP to everyone who debuffed an enemy Player just before their death.
Give AP to everyone who survives huge amounts of damage.

eridorr15 · June 2018

kichwas wrote: »

I think tanking needs a basic overhaul of how 'taunt' and 'aggro' works.

Tanking here works with 3 different single-target 15-second taunts.
1H/Shield
Undaunted
Frost staff

Having to hit just that 1 skill once ever 15 seconds on ever creature in a pull is... clunky.

In most MMOs there is an agro mechanic. Get into 'tank mode' and your attacks just generate more 'threat' against enemies - so you can weave various attacks to generate attention, including single-target and AoE.

Modern MMOs make getting all of that threat TOO EASY...

So I would not copy them.

But the 'taunt it every 15 seconds' method is just as bad... it's a guaranteed grab, but you have to spam it and you have to run around spamming it on everything individually...

Messy...

I very much disagree. Honestly when it comes to trash in this game it really depends on what you are running and also very much depends on how good of dps you have in your group.

I am not sure what you tank on but I tank on The Dragon Knight which either way you can still get the initial threat on a trash pull with laying down an AOE on any class (wall of elements, caltrops if you want to go that route, or eruption or whatever your classes kit offers). This is a really touchy subject because dks imho and most other people's as well are going to agree that having someone running a dragon knight tank who is actually good and knows what they are doing are going to be able to group things fastly and efficiently using chains. Now that being said I know the silver leash skill just came out but it takes stam now if someone knows how to manage the sustain using it fine i guess but my guess would be not and honestly makes no sense to use stam for a chain ability. Now what I am trying to get at initially is that tanking is only going to be as messy as you make it that being said yes there is group factors that come into play but if everyone understands how this works you should not need to run all over the room dragging things out of people aoes wasting their resources just to taunt things thats why so many people just go with dk over anything. Yea there is the warden with their teleport pull and the monster set that pull enemies to you after you block an attack but it's so freaking SLOW. Basically I'll give you an example of what I do for a trash pull and everyone has their own ways of doing things but for the sake of the reply ill give you an example. pop an igneous shield and a quick vigor, run in lay down wall of elements and use a talons they by that time IF there is nothing super threatening in your group start working on chaining in adds (this takes practice and knowing the pulls and dungeons *tanking is like an art*) by the time you've chained in things if your group has good dps then im telling you things will melt before you even have a chance to taunt everything which in ESO is unrealistic depending on the trash pulls and whether you are in a dlc dungeon or a vet trial. Now sorry if I'm all over the place with this lol I am just trying to be helpful in understanding how to actually tank in eso with lots of trash because its actually quite easy and can be really engaging compared to other mmos where all you have to do is just spam an aoe taunt. There is also line of site tricks that you can use if you know the dungeons well enough too. Now looking at other dungeons especially DLC you will be required to pick up more then even 3 or maybe even 4 targets at a time that's when its just not about making sure you've got force taunt on it all its about making sure the debuffs are still up on the enemies major fracture,breach,crusher,engulfing flames if you are running it. It's about knowing how to juggle all of that while keeping mobs stacked and grouped efficiently. tons of different ways to tank some better then others but if done in a good way you def don't need to run around grabbing everything like that, there may be some situations like that but it's pretty rare. Remember you are the one who is stacking so find your place and stack, it helps to know the dungeons like i've said. Also helps to run with people who don't just run off and kill one thing while you're grouping the rest of it xD. Again I am just trying to help with some things in the community, lots of knowledgeable players out there but they can learn! A lot of groups make dungeons a lot harder then they need to be but that obviously takes time and experience. Now one thing to note before I shut up is tanking Trials vs dungeons and even some dlcs can be a totally different approach, especially with trash. A lot of trash can simply ignore that you've done ANY damage to them at all and run passed you so in things like maw of lorkhaj for example (Among other trials) you spend time stacking mobs with line of site while your groups dealing with other things... so if they changed the threat system or taunt system it would not really work and would spell disaster for a lot of the way the game works in it's current state which imo is pretty awesome. In my opinion this is not and would not be an issue for zos to look at because it's not really there.

eridorr15 · June 2018

To touch on the subject a bit about tanks being tied to just a few sets, I can see where you are coming from in a sense but tbh if you want to look at certain roles being tied to just a few sets dps have it the worst. I realize that Ebon and Alkosh are a pretty standard setup and at least one tank in a trial needs to wear it but why not support your group in something that's not even hard to survive in? I feel a rewarding sense knowing I helped my group clear content faster and more efficiently. Honestly when you look at tanking and what you can wear there are tons of options for tanks out there whether it's monster sets or other sets...sets like: Bloodspawn,LordWardy,Earthgore,Chudan,thurvokun(great for huge trash stacks in trials) & the list goes on and on.

When we look at what other sets we can wear as a tank to there is a lot of options such as: Ebon,Dragon,PlagueDoc,Torugs,Greenpact,SPC,Powerful Assault...tons and tons...That being said yes as I mentioned you are going to have a tank wear ebon in a trial but why not ? it also helps you too! I personally like running torugs with alkosh I like being able to amp my groups dps because we all know the faster we get through something the easier it is...I think Alkosh is a very engaging set and allows you to time your synergies while doing other things like playing the mechanics of a fight while keeping your debuffs up for the group(alkosh,crusher,engulfing flames if you are running it..and of course your major breach & fracture).

All of this being said YES I would love to see more sets out there that are support that are SIMILAR and better in a lot of ways for tanks I'm sure all of us tanks would welcome new helpful sets like the ones we already run. As someone mentioned Galenwe's was a step in the right direction but yes I can agree it's just to weak atm. Anyways to say tanks are just tied to ebon and alkosh ALL the time isn't entirely true(although I rarely EVER drop alkosh).. and also feel good about supporting your group especially in something that allows you to still be survivable!

I do really think ZOS should look into making more support sets though and maybe if people are wanting some more tanky traits on things that would be a step in the right direction like say dropping weapon crit for max health or a douple dip on max health and stam or even magicka. Healing taken is nice but meh. Anyways I will agree with the community that it'd be nice to see more diverse sets but would still like to support my group at the same time! Just need to be good sets.

I guess for my 2 things that I can think of....

1. I can agree with annoying barswap one shot kills...I mean it doesn't happen to me often because once you study a boss and of course know what heavy attacks look like(xD LOL) it isn't as much of a problem...BUT..I'd still like this to maybe not happen ? but if it remains the same indefinitely then can deal with it.

2. Maybe introduce another tanking skill line that could potentially help in resource management and sustain for all classes to benefit from. YES I know lots of experienced tanks out there including myself at times or all the time run balance which can be easy mode for sustain especially being overhealed so much...guess I'd like to maybe see a shift from that and maybe see something better come along in a new skill line AS long as it doesn't interrupt keeping a good crusher time up or even alkosh and other debuffs. The Psijic order meditate isn't all that great if you are main tank trying to keep good uptimes up but to be fair of course DK tank has igneous for stam, balance for magicka and even battle roar...Again I guess I'd just like to see something different whatever that different may be but def don't want to loose access to the current play style either.

In conclusion:

Again I agree with wanting more supportive sets that could potentially aid in groups dps,mitigation and health. and by the nine divines PLEASEEEEE I'm begging you as fun as Cloudrest is and for me AS is kinda meh make a new trial that's like one of the crag ones or maw because I want to be able to stack some more trashhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Crag is by far my favs next to MoL. So if that counts as one of my top pains for tanking I'll use that too

lol.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2018

worsttankever wrote: »

(1) Mechanics that are immune to taunt/block/mitigation and slow and steady progress. I’m thinking Shadows of the Hist, Ruins of Mazzatun, specifically Xal-Nur . That spice induced charge mechanic destroys the party’s cohesion and people start to drop. I really hate tanking those DLC dungeons.

(2) Leveling in PVE/under 50 as a tank. You need a separate spec completely. I feel bad when people ask “how do I level a tank?” (You don’t).

They need to give us alternate builds as an option. We need a way to put CP, Skills, Attributes in a block that you can flip a switch on for builds. I would love to have my PvP Build, Tank Build, Healer Build, and DD build. How nice would it be if the same character could do all of those things with a flip of the switch instead of 10's of 1000's of gold? It would also make the life of tanking a hell of a lot less annoying. Tanks stink something awful when it comes to clearing normal content and their earnings rate in those arenas are abysmal. Many dungeons don't even need a proper tank. This needs some consideration on their part and it is the only thing that makes sense in my view.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2018

Oxalias wrote: »

Topic: PvP Mega Tanking - And how it's almost impossible these days especially in non-cp environments. This will describe the reasons why mega tanking is near impossible currently and compare to a time roughly around one Tamriel where mega tanking was still possible although difficult.

Okay, so I've been waiting a long time for the devs to care about tanking.

My points are only going to be related to PVP 'mega tanking' as I like to call it. A mega tank in PVP is someone that does NO damage but sits and absorbs all the damage in breeches, from zergs, and self-heals it. Since one Tamriel and earlier, the game has been slowly nerfing mega tanking to the point where in no cp, I can only tank Three good players for a small amount before dying. I understand this isn't a playstyle that fits many people, but it is still a very helpful role in alliance wars and is rewarding for the few that enjoy it. However, this playstyle has been slowly nerfed and diminished.

The first reason for this is because of the blocking cost increase, and a weakness in the damage reduction of tanking mega tanking, you take too much damage, then what is healable. Mega tanking is a complicated process of dealing with the incoming damage from more than 10 people, healing it while managing stamina to keep blocking. It sounds simple, but when taking damage from 10+ People, and avoiding siege fire, it becomes a lot harder very quickly.

I understand that the developers of the game don't like half-tanks, admittingly in PvP, these destroy the balance of the game because players shouldn't be given the option to be super tanky by just swapping to a sword and shield bar. Therefore I have developed a solution that would fix this problem, make one of the morphs of Defensive Posture (Preferably the magic absorbing one), a toggle ability that dramatically increases the amount of damage blocking does and lowers the cost significantly when this is toggled too. (The reasoning is, because as a toggle ability, it is required to be placed on both weapon bars) As a safety precaution, I recommend that this passive also reduces your damage done to enemy players to reinforce, the sacrifice of damage that is required to reach this level of tanking. And as a triple safety procedure, make the cost of this morph to be immensely expensive 20000k stamina. (This seems ridiculous, but it's not if given the chance players would cast this ability to tank until they had their resources back.) so it's not viable for people trying to use it to tank on one bar.

Now the second problem that is causing the death of mega tanking is the increased damage of players and the unmitigated damage or the damage that isn't mitigated by blocking, the dots (Poisons, Bleeds, Oblivion damage, Zaans, and AOE). As someone that has developed their playstyle to be unkillable, and the skill comes from managing your heals, resources and trying to escape siege, it's unfair that one player can tear a tower down. It's also hard to maintain the amount of damage that abilities that aren't affected by shields do to tanks. I can't stress how much of a problem this is. It's is so debilitating, that it makes the above point seem tiny in comparison. It's ridiculous how many abilities are not mitigated by blocking, and this is especially tough in a non-cp setting. To put it into perspective, if you are a trying to tank 10 people, and you are barely managing to do so, but you are using your skill to stay alive, then there comes one person with let's say for arguments sake that they have, bleeds, zaans, and sloads (oblivion damage), none of these damages are going to be reduced by blocking, tanks and a tank will die in a matter of seconds. There is no possible way for a tank reduce the damage from this. Especially Oblivion damage which ignores everything. These damages are very commonly used in PvP, and has rendered mega tanking useless, even small groups of 2-3 can melt a mega tank down using these types of damages. Purging is too expensive for most classes to run, it only removes two effects for a high cost of 5k magicka.

Earthgore is an excellent start to this problem, but only removes one effect.

My suggestion is that you should add a passive in the tanking line that goes somewhere like this - When blocking 15 consecutive attacks, remove one negative effect or something like that.

Or reworks bleeds, because dots are not aren't PvP friendly.

I've been saying for a long time that the way Stamina and Magicka scale the required pools for defense and damage dealing while Health does nothing is a huge mistake. They want people to commit to tanking, balance, or full damage but they don't give health anything meaningful. These hybrid tanks as you call them are not the fault of the Tanks but the designers. Strong Healing also = Strong Damage which isn't done in quite a few other MMO's either. The system itself needs some reconsideration and will only get more out of control as CP and Gear becomes more poweful.

Anti_Virus · June 2018

Tanks are bad because of attribute scaling.

more damage stats = more survival

a light armor dps with 10-15k hp can take more damage than a tank due to how much damage their shields can absorb, while dealing a ton of damage, investing into tanking resources such as health, resistances and blocking yields diminishing returns while damage resources(max stam/magicka and spell/weapon damage) scales infinitely with no cap on damage and healing/shielding tied to it why play a tank?

Beardimus · June 2018

Tanking needs a role in PvP. Sure they can help be on the ram, and there are the odd set that makes use of a taunt on players but you rarely see it. They end up being annoying builds you can kill but some kind of functionality or role for then would be good..

SirCritical · June 2018

1. My first and maybe most relevant problem is the need of usage of absolutely non-tanking sets because of 'meta-support-tanking' (yes, Alkosh...)
2. Also - based on 1. - the usage of lightning staff. No... instead give some similar effect to ice staves. This would also promote ice staff-tanking, which I think as an interesting feature.
3. The lack of really interesting tanking sets (none in trials, except - guess, what? - the DD-intrnded Alkosh, since the meta is Ebon/Torug's + Alkosh). Really I somehow jealous of my DDs and healers, because they at least have something to farm in CR...

4. Barswap blockdrop. Yesterday just got eliminated in the part of a second when I barswapped in vSP while playing plug in the Concocter fight...
5. Worthlessness of resistances. Need serious adjusting. If I'll find the great thread about this I'll link here.
6. The need of magicka regeneration mundus. Really....
7. Meaningless Major Protection and Minor Aegis buffs, because of mitigation diminishing returns.
8. Give a magicka based morph to Bone Shield, for non-DK tanks.
9. Etc-etc.

Narvuntien · June 2018

My two issues with tanking

1. There is no medium difficulty with which to practice tanking safely to learn the mechanics. On Normal you don't even have a tank just dps it down and then vet you need a tank and know all the mechanics, unless you have a particularly patient group. Basically you can only learn to tank if you already have a group you trust. Not to meantion the issues I have PUG tanking where your DPS doesn't even let you take aggro and run off ahead get killed and blame you.
2. There is a disconnect between "tank sets" and what people actually use to tank. SirCritical has pointed a bunch of issues above. Resistances are easy to hit cap, Major protection and minor aegis help dps more than tanking due to the nature of resistances. Having a bunch of health has some small synergy with some skills or classes but is otherwise not particularly useful for meta tanking. Support tanking is the key element to the sets that are actually used, resistances removal, extra health to the group and vunerability. There is also a very heavy hybrid element to tanking, where we use all of the resources and all favour mag regen with higher stamina pools.
3. Bonus problem can I please get a Hp, Stam and Mag Regen food or drink.

SirCritical · June 2018

Narvuntien wrote: »

3. Bonus problem can I please get a Hp, Stam and Mag Regen food or drink.

Jewels of Misrule is what you're searching for

aeowulf · June 2018

Being able to switch off the ton of particle effects exploding on bosses in a trial would be handy. Would help with low FPS moments & make it easier to see when to block. (so perma-block/addons telling mewhen to block are less important)

SquareSausage · June 2018

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

PvP/Cyrodiil
- Theres no need to run a Tank in Cyrodiil. You barely get any AP for defending/debuffing/blocking enemy Players. I run a Minor/Major Defile Tank and I see that I help by debuffing people to the point where they cant heal themselves, but I dont benefit from it all. It feels like Im helping other players get AP instead of actually getting AP for helping.
Suggestions:
Make the "Guard" Skill give AP to the guarding Tank after absorbing enough damage or when the guarded Player gets a kill (but only if you absorbed damage before).
Give AP to everyone who debuffed an enemy Player just before their death.
Give AP to everyone who survives huge amounts of damage.

Just group the players then you get the AP too.

Solo play will always net you a lot less.