Why is Sload's still not nerfed?

CaliMade · May 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

CaliMade wrote: »

@Blobsky

You failed all of us rational and non biased minds by posting this here.

ZOS only comes to threads to stop people from being toxic.

These forums are busted and this game is busted.

Nobody on these forums has the ability to see the bigger picture.

Half the kids Only see things through a straw attached to the map legend

With sets like Sloads, Zaan, Shieldbreaker, Cauulrions(spelling), fassalas, and duroks bane.

With skills like cloak, Reverb, incap, and soul assault, bleeds.

Clearly indefensible sets and mechanics

Un-counterable, un-mitigatable damage...Is busted, was busted, and will always be busted

jokers saying AOE stops it not realizing that there are players smarter than them that actually have the mental capacity to not use somthing that hits multiple targets. When useing a set that you only want to effect one person.

There is no reasoning with people here, and the devs dont listen because they dont really care about this game. All they want is for that paycheck at the end of the week. So they can feed thier kids. They truly are not worried about wether pvp is skilled or not.

Ill tell you what i tell all my friends and myself when we complain about video games.

Does it make you mad? Is it game breaking TO YOU?

Does it make you want to stop playing? If so, the dont.

Go play fortnite,Look at SypherPK, he dropped eso and now he is doing better than ever, i suggest you do the same.

I myself am about this > || < close to deleting this game. And every week i play less and less one 16k Zaan at a time.

if you make your build to include defenses and you balance your build it can handle ALL of the problems you are mentioning.
people are used to Gank Builds and builds that have no proper "purge" skill and that purge can remove all of the things your talking about as well as build your defenses to handle some attacks instead of able to kill people in just a few seconds.

too many builds have been made and rely on pure instant Gank Death of your enemy rather then the ability to let the fight actually have a few minutes of surviving your enemies attacks as well as your enemy surviving Your attacks.

make some adjustments to your build, slot purge and look for better ways to handle the fight every single patch, because every new patch is more changes. just make adjustments and slot purge, i did it, we all have to do it, it really is just that simple.

No offence to you in any way but this is exactly what i mean. Intstead of just listening to my words you assume i dont know how to make builds or counter the issues in question. I made a post a while back in the “trigger the forums in a sentence thread”

90% of the people you tell to l2p are probably better than you. Not saying i am, just saying its wrong to assume i dont know what im doing.

ChunkyCat · May 2018

Maryal wrote: »

While on PTS, I wore sloads. I went to the beach area where the crabs are. I hit a crab for minimal damage and Sloads proc'ed. Did the crab die? Nope. So, I did it again (same crab) and Sloads proc'ed again. Did the crab die now? Nope.

So, if your build is squishier than a crab, that could be a problem. Maybe you could find out what armor crabs wear and use that.

kek

Koensol · May 2018

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

#2 You assuming that 3k additional DPS on You wouldnt change much when You fight 3 potatoes You would kill normally ?

The problem here is that people assume that killing "3 potatoes" is "normal", and thus any change to the game's rules that makes it so you can no longer do it must be broken.

If the game released right now, for the first time, with sload, the fact you can not kill the above would be the new "normal".

It is the game's rules that determine who you should be able to kill, not the other way around.

No ? 1st of all game was released 4 years ago so rules apply to how it looks like not how it could look like. Also even if game would start tomorrrow if I would be able to kill 3 potatoes when they're in anything else but I wouldnt when they all have Sload that would mean the same thing as it means today , that the set is broken and carries people. It's not like this is the 1st set in ESO that is doing that. It was happening since early days of the game with larger or smaller impact and same as then same right now killing 3 potatoes was normal and when they were carried by sets and suddenly started to be real issue this setup was called broken. It's not like there wasnt sets nerfs in the past because potato players were carried too much. It's never normal when some set is carrying people too much even if the game would start right now from zero. It's always easy to tell when set is carrying people.

"I would be able to kill X potatoes, if only they did not have Y! Therefore Y is bad, and should be nerfed!"

You act like you are entitled to kill X "potatoes", and thus anything that prevents you from doing that is bad. That's just not how it works.

The other way around. You take the environment the game gives you(which includes Y), and then test your limits against that. If you can kill X potatoes - good for you. If you can't... don't blame Y. It's part of the game. Either you can deal with it, or you can't.

What kind of nonsense is this? If we apply this logic to the game, all of the cancerous OP stuff in this game would be justified, because hey "it's part of the game. Deal with it." SMH.

I was talking specifically about the attitude of "i could kill X by myself before, which means im good, which means i deserve to kill X no matter what, and anything that makes it so i can not kill X is cancerous OP"

Sure, there may be OP things in the game, and you absolutely should voice your opinion if it is a valid concern, but "It makes me lose to 6 players!" definitely isn't one.

I disagree. While in theory what you say could be valid in some situations, you cannot just apply this logic and be done with it. Sloads is obviously cancer and hardcounters specific builds with unavoidable damage on top of all the other tools being used against you. And it is being done by a proc mind you. So it is absolute zero skill cheese. This has nothing to do with what sets I wore before the patch. If the application of sloads gives a player such an edge as to counter wntire builds with 1 set, then how in the world can you say "It's part of this game. Deal with it"?

Enslaved · May 2018

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

via Imgflip Meme Generator

Cleansing ritual.

And where is your god now?

My god is in your fridge, eating your food.

Ragnarock41 · May 2018

Edziu wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Your logic wants to totally cover up fact that skill gap is the main thing in every competitive online game and without it this is just game with brainless mashing of the buttons and counting You'll get lucky 1st.

Yes I am entitled to kill certain amount of potatoes.

Can you show me a successful competitive online game where top players and noobs get put in the same arena for the laters to get slaughtered 100 times out of 100 ?

You should be thankful that going out in Cyrodiil to hunt potatoes as a sport is even possible, because you are not going to do that in LoL/DotA/Overwatch and whatever Diamond League you think to be part of.

Umm like almost every online game . Look what is happening in Fortnite for example. If You're top player You can slaughter 1/5 of all players in the match sometimes by 1vXing them. Even between "top players" there is always skill gap which decides or alteast should decide who'll win.

What you all forget here is that ESO is not a competitive game and it will NEVER be one, because of this comparing eso to games like league or dota or cs:go is wrong on that aspect... And even in those games you can make a fresh account and farm noobs 7/24. Hell, I can join a public server in CS:GO and create absolute chaos and imbalance because I'm sitting at supreme rank with maybe 15+ years of counter strike experience, while people in those servers are usually dmg or even lower ranked.

You can't make a matchmaking system in a game that is not built based on competitive play. Which is why games like fortnite or pubg or planetside or battlefield etc does not have any ranking systems. Its fine that a high skill player is able to farm newbies. This does not stop a good game from being popular.

If a game is skill based, those players who are getting farmed will eventually learn how to play. But if those players find what they seek in a crutch set like black rose, viper, sloads etc.. they will get a false feeling of ''getting gud'', and when that crutch is taken away from them, they will be back where they were first, at bottom tier, which is where they deserve for the effort they put in.

Which will cause them to quit the game, and which is exactly what was happened after proc nerfs.

or the classes that ppl like to play get *** on so hard they cant play them by anyone running this set

why would i play a mag sorc, even if it my favorite class if it is at a sever disadvantage to anyone running this?

as far as I see both magsorcs an stamblades are DOMINATING in open world. If they will quit because of sloads I can not help but laugh at their incompetence. At morrowind both stamplars and stamDKs became literally bottom tier just to make stamden look nice and promote sales.

And now here you are complaining about a single set making your class unplayable. Do you see the irony in this?

PS: I do not support low effort playstyles like this. My point is that there are people playing classes in much worse state due to their passion.

I dont know how its on cyro but I can tell you how its on bg's
almsot everyone now running with it and my gameplay on bg's is 100% out if I will get enemies with sload, I hace no any option counter this and dot say me about purge...because its not effective as also everyone are spamming dot and ofc many different debiffs with it so its an miracle if purge will get rin of sload in jsut 2 casts

are you a stamblade main by any change? in the last week I only encountered sloads once. Just once.

yes Im stamblade....and just sload mechanic is killing me nonstop and really for me in bg's its very rare to not get sload in death recap

So you're going to have to actually play like the rest of us now. I wish you good luck.

so drop medium with low health and go on heavy and 2nd morph of cloak to healing? ehh just gg nice work ZOS
not funny, forcing people even more to go on heavy armor because medium armor is to squishy end even big buffs wont help to make medium viable with things like sload if you dont want overpower on max this mediuma rmor

Actually heavy or medium does not matter since this set does stable damage against any target, no matter their resistances.

So saying sloads is a medium counter is not helping your cause really. The set is a counter to every possible defence except healing. And the healing difference between heavy and medium is almost none.

in the end , for a regular stamina player this is not nearly as dangerous as a master dw bleed, and its definitely nowhere near as scary as the old proc sets. So yes, put some proper healing to your build.

Sharee · May 2018

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

#2 You assuming that 3k additional DPS on You wouldnt change much when You fight 3 potatoes You would kill normally ?

The problem here is that people assume that killing "3 potatoes" is "normal", and thus any change to the game's rules that makes it so you can no longer do it must be broken.

If the game released right now, for the first time, with sload, the fact you can not kill the above would be the new "normal".

It is the game's rules that determine who you should be able to kill, not the other way around.

No ? 1st of all game was released 4 years ago so rules apply to how it looks like not how it could look like. Also even if game would start tomorrrow if I would be able to kill 3 potatoes when they're in anything else but I wouldnt when they all have Sload that would mean the same thing as it means today , that the set is broken and carries people. It's not like this is the 1st set in ESO that is doing that. It was happening since early days of the game with larger or smaller impact and same as then same right now killing 3 potatoes was normal and when they were carried by sets and suddenly started to be real issue this setup was called broken. It's not like there wasnt sets nerfs in the past because potato players were carried too much. It's never normal when some set is carrying people too much even if the game would start right now from zero. It's always easy to tell when set is carrying people.

"I would be able to kill X potatoes, if only they did not have Y! Therefore Y is bad, and should be nerfed!"

You act like you are entitled to kill X "potatoes", and thus anything that prevents you from doing that is bad. That's just not how it works.

The other way around. You take the environment the game gives you(which includes Y), and then test your limits against that. If you can kill X potatoes - good for you. If you can't... don't blame Y. It's part of the game. Either you can deal with it, or you can't.

What kind of nonsense is this? If we apply this logic to the game, all of the cancerous OP stuff in this game would be justified, because hey "it's part of the game. Deal with it." SMH.

I was talking specifically about the attitude of "i could kill X by myself before, which means im good, which means i deserve to kill X no matter what, and anything that makes it so i can not kill X is cancerous OP"

Sure, there may be OP things in the game, and you absolutely should voice your opinion if it is a valid concern, but "It makes me lose to 6 players!" definitely isn't one.

I disagree. While in theory what you say could be valid in some situations, you cannot just apply this logic and be done with it. Sloads is obviously cancer and hardcounters specific builds with unavoidable damage on top of all the other tools being used against you. And it is being done by a proc mind you. So it is absolute zero skill cheese. This has nothing to do with what sets I wore before the patch. If the application of sloads gives a player such an edge as to counter wntire builds with 1 set, then how in the world can you say "It's part of this game. Deal with it"?

I'll make a wild guess and say that's exactly what the set was meant to do - counter builds which did not have enough counters before.

And it is by no means "free, on top of everything else". Using sload means half you set bonuses are useless for the purpose of damage dealing(which lowers your overall damage output), and you get a slow-acting dot instead of another set like caluurion, sacrificing significant burst - in a game where burst is the king.

In other words, it is not the silver bullet you make it to be. It just kills you in situations you would have survived otherwise.

Feanor · May 2018

And it is by no means "free, on top of everything else". Using sload means half you set bonuses are useless for the purpose of damage dealing(which lowers your overall damage output), and you get a slow-acting dot instead of another set like caluurion, sacrificing significant burst - in a game where burst is the king.

That's not correct. The 2-4 bonuses just work for both stamina and magicka characters, but that doesn't mean you'd have twice the stats if it were a magicka or stamina only set. Besides, the added stam or mag is very useful for utility purposes.

Caluurion is a slow projectile that's only strong on very close range - it's not "guaranteed" burst.

BohnT · May 2018

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

#2 You assuming that 3k additional DPS on You wouldnt change much when You fight 3 potatoes You would kill normally ?

The problem here is that people assume that killing "3 potatoes" is "normal", and thus any change to the game's rules that makes it so you can no longer do it must be broken.

If the game released right now, for the first time, with sload, the fact you can not kill the above would be the new "normal".

It is the game's rules that determine who you should be able to kill, not the other way around.

No ? 1st of all game was released 4 years ago so rules apply to how it looks like not how it could look like. Also even if game would start tomorrrow if I would be able to kill 3 potatoes when they're in anything else but I wouldnt when they all have Sload that would mean the same thing as it means today , that the set is broken and carries people. It's not like this is the 1st set in ESO that is doing that. It was happening since early days of the game with larger or smaller impact and same as then same right now killing 3 potatoes was normal and when they were carried by sets and suddenly started to be real issue this setup was called broken. It's not like there wasnt sets nerfs in the past because potato players were carried too much. It's never normal when some set is carrying people too much even if the game would start right now from zero. It's always easy to tell when set is carrying people.

"I would be able to kill X potatoes, if only they did not have Y! Therefore Y is bad, and should be nerfed!"

You act like you are entitled to kill X "potatoes", and thus anything that prevents you from doing that is bad. That's just not how it works.

The other way around. You take the environment the game gives you(which includes Y), and then test your limits against that. If you can kill X potatoes - good for you. If you can't... don't blame Y. It's part of the game. Either you can deal with it, or you can't.

What kind of nonsense is this? If we apply this logic to the game, all of the cancerous OP stuff in this game would be justified, because hey "it's part of the game. Deal with it." SMH.

I was talking specifically about the attitude of "i could kill X by myself before, which means im good, which means i deserve to kill X no matter what, and anything that makes it so i can not kill X is cancerous OP"

Sure, there may be OP things in the game, and you absolutely should voice your opinion if it is a valid concern, but "It makes me lose to 6 players!" definitely isn't one.

I disagree. While in theory what you say could be valid in some situations, you cannot just apply this logic and be done with it. Sloads is obviously cancer and hardcounters specific builds with unavoidable damage on top of all the other tools being used against you. And it is being done by a proc mind you. So it is absolute zero skill cheese. This has nothing to do with what sets I wore before the patch. If the application of sloads gives a player such an edge as to counter wntire builds with 1 set, then how in the world can you say "It's part of this game. Deal with it"?

I'll make a wild guess and say that's exactly what the set was meant to do - counter builds which did not have enough counters before.

And it is by no means "free, on top of everything else". Using sload means half you set bonuses are useless for the purpose of damage dealing(which lowers your overall damage output), and you get a slow-acting dot instead of another set like caluurion, sacrificing significant burst - in a game where burst is the king.

In other words, it is not the silver bullet you make it to be. It just kills you in situations you would have survived otherwise.

Tell me more about those builds without counters.
I'm really intrested with what you'll come up.
Is it stamnb?
Great let's implement a set that completely removes cloak so Stamnb is trash when fighting anyone using sloads while it's still overperfoming vs everyone else.
Is it Full tanks?
Well it's not like Defiles and Bleeds are a thing right?
Is it Magsorcs?
Watch Indis videos and talk again about how magsorcs doesn't have enough counters

Balancing classes via sets and things like Poisons, Siphoner CP is ***, you balance the class to be balanced in any encounter and not ruin it when fighting one special build while it keeps dominating anyone not using that special set.

TheUndeadAmulet · May 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Your logic wants to totally cover up fact that skill gap is the main thing in every competitive online game and without it this is just game with brainless mashing of the buttons and counting You'll get lucky 1st.

Yes I am entitled to kill certain amount of potatoes.

Can you show me a successful competitive online game where top players and noobs get put in the same arena for the laters to get slaughtered 100 times out of 100 ?

You should be thankful that going out in Cyrodiil to hunt potatoes as a sport is even possible, because you are not going to do that in LoL/DotA/Overwatch and whatever Diamond League you think to be part of.

Umm like almost every online game . Look what is happening in Fortnite for example. If You're top player You can slaughter 1/5 of all players in the match sometimes by 1vXing them. Even between "top players" there is always skill gap which decides or alteast should decide who'll win.

What you all forget here is that ESO is not a competitive game and it will NEVER be one, because of this comparing eso to games like league or dota or cs:go is wrong on that aspect... And even in those games you can make a fresh account and farm noobs 7/24. Hell, I can join a public server in CS:GO and create absolute chaos and imbalance because I'm sitting at supreme rank with maybe 15+ years of counter strike experience, while people in those servers are usually dmg or even lower ranked.

You can't make a matchmaking system in a game that is not built based on competitive play. Which is why games like fortnite or pubg or planetside or battlefield etc does not have any ranking systems. Its fine that a high skill player is able to farm newbies. This does not stop a good game from being popular.

If a game is skill based, those players who are getting farmed will eventually learn how to play. But if those players find what they seek in a crutch set like black rose, viper, sloads etc.. they will get a false feeling of ''getting gud'', and when that crutch is taken away from them, they will be back where they were first, at bottom tier, which is where they deserve for the effort they put in.

Which will cause them to quit the game, and which is exactly what was happened after proc nerfs.

or the classes that ppl like to play get *** on so hard they cant play them by anyone running this set

why would i play a mag sorc, even if it my favorite class if it is at a sever disadvantage to anyone running this?

as far as I see both magsorcs an stamblades are DOMINATING in open world. If they will quit because of sloads I can not help but laugh at their incompetence. At morrowind both stamplars and stamDKs became literally bottom tier just to make stamden look nice and promote sales.

And now here you are complaining about a single set making your class unplayable. Do you see the irony in this?

PS: I do not support low effort playstyles like this. My point is that there are people playing classes in much worse state due to their passion.

I dont know how its on cyro but I can tell you how its on bg's
almsot everyone now running with it and my gameplay on bg's is 100% out if I will get enemies with sload, I hace no any option counter this and dot say me about purge...because its not effective as also everyone are spamming dot and ofc many different debiffs with it so its an miracle if purge will get rin of sload in jsut 2 casts

are you a stamblade main by any change? in the last week I only encountered sloads once. Just once.

yes Im stamblade....and just sload mechanic is killing me nonstop and really for me in bg's its very rare to not get sload in death recap

So you're going to have to actually play like the rest of us now. I wish you good luck.

so drop medium with low health and go on heavy and 2nd morph of cloak to healing? ehh just gg nice work ZOS
not funny, forcing people even more to go on heavy armor because medium armor is to squishy end even big buffs wont help to make medium viable with things like sload if you dont want overpower on max this mediuma rmor

Actually heavy or medium does not matter since this set does stable damage against any target, no matter their resistances.

So saying sloads is a medium counter is not helping your cause really. The set is a counter to every possible defence except healing. And the healing difference between heavy and medium is almost none.

in the end , for a regular stamina player this is not nearly as dangerous as a master dw bleed, and its definitely nowhere near as scary as the old proc sets. So yes, put some proper healing to your build.

Imma be that guy and randomly point out that heavy armor has a passive that increases healing received by 12%
Hope they make sloads not stack before Summerset hits consoles though.

Sharee · May 2018

Feanor wrote: »

And it is by no means "free, on top of everything else". Using sload means half you set bonuses are useless for the purpose of damage dealing(which lowers your overall damage output), and you get a slow-acting dot instead of another set like caluurion, sacrificing significant burst - in a game where burst is the king.

That's not correct. The 2-4 bonuses just work for both stamina and magicka characters, but that doesn't mean you'd have twice the stats if it were a magicka or stamina only set. Besides, the added stam or mag is very useful for utility purposes.

What's not correct? If you have extra stamina bonus on a magicka character compared to having (for example) extra spell damage bonus, you will do less damage. That's what i said. I did not say extra stamina is not useful on a magicka character. Only that your overall damage will be lower if you have it.

Feanor wrote: »

Caluurion is a slow projectile that's only strong on very close range - it's not "guaranteed" burst.

I said it is burst. Not that it is guaranteed. Also, it was just an example of a "burst" set, as opposed to a slow-acting DOT set.

BohnT · May 2018

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Your logic wants to totally cover up fact that skill gap is the main thing in every competitive online game and without it this is just game with brainless mashing of the buttons and counting You'll get lucky 1st.

Yes I am entitled to kill certain amount of potatoes.

Can you show me a successful competitive online game where top players and noobs get put in the same arena for the laters to get slaughtered 100 times out of 100 ?

You should be thankful that going out in Cyrodiil to hunt potatoes as a sport is even possible, because you are not going to do that in LoL/DotA/Overwatch and whatever Diamond League you think to be part of.

Umm like almost every online game . Look what is happening in Fortnite for example. If You're top player You can slaughter 1/5 of all players in the match sometimes by 1vXing them. Even between "top players" there is always skill gap which decides or alteast should decide who'll win.

What you all forget here is that ESO is not a competitive game and it will NEVER be one, because of this comparing eso to games like league or dota or cs:go is wrong on that aspect... And even in those games you can make a fresh account and farm noobs 7/24. Hell, I can join a public server in CS:GO and create absolute chaos and imbalance because I'm sitting at supreme rank with maybe 15+ years of counter strike experience, while people in those servers are usually dmg or even lower ranked.

You can't make a matchmaking system in a game that is not built based on competitive play. Which is why games like fortnite or pubg or planetside or battlefield etc does not have any ranking systems. Its fine that a high skill player is able to farm newbies. This does not stop a good game from being popular.

If a game is skill based, those players who are getting farmed will eventually learn how to play. But if those players find what they seek in a crutch set like black rose, viper, sloads etc.. they will get a false feeling of ''getting gud'', and when that crutch is taken away from them, they will be back where they were first, at bottom tier, which is where they deserve for the effort they put in.

Which will cause them to quit the game, and which is exactly what was happened after proc nerfs.

or the classes that ppl like to play get *** on so hard they cant play them by anyone running this set

why would i play a mag sorc, even if it my favorite class if it is at a sever disadvantage to anyone running this?

as far as I see both magsorcs an stamblades are DOMINATING in open world. If they will quit because of sloads I can not help but laugh at their incompetence. At morrowind both stamplars and stamDKs became literally bottom tier just to make stamden look nice and promote sales.

And now here you are complaining about a single set making your class unplayable. Do you see the irony in this?

PS: I do not support low effort playstyles like this. My point is that there are people playing classes in much worse state due to their passion.

I dont know how its on cyro but I can tell you how its on bg's
almsot everyone now running with it and my gameplay on bg's is 100% out if I will get enemies with sload, I hace no any option counter this and dot say me about purge...because its not effective as also everyone are spamming dot and ofc many different debiffs with it so its an miracle if purge will get rin of sload in jsut 2 casts

are you a stamblade main by any change? in the last week I only encountered sloads once. Just once.

yes Im stamblade....and just sload mechanic is killing me nonstop and really for me in bg's its very rare to not get sload in death recap

So you're going to have to actually play like the rest of us now. I wish you good luck.

so drop medium with low health and go on heavy and 2nd morph of cloak to healing? ehh just gg nice work ZOS
not funny, forcing people even more to go on heavy armor because medium armor is to squishy end even big buffs wont help to make medium viable with things like sload if you dont want overpower on max this mediuma rmor

Actually heavy or medium does not matter since this set does stable damage against any target, no matter their resistances.

So saying sloads is a medium counter is not helping your cause really. The set is a counter to every possible defence except healing. And the healing difference between heavy and medium is almost none.

in the end , for a regular stamina player this is not nearly as dangerous as a master dw bleed, and its definitely nowhere near as scary as the old proc sets. So yes, put some proper healing to your build.

Imma be that guy and randomly point out that heavy armor has a passive that increases healing received by 12%
Hope they make sloads not stack before Summerset hits consoles though.

It's 8% and medium armor gets 12% more wpndmg + more crit rating which translates into more healing, also medium has dodge and shuffle to avoid incoming damage. Depending who you fight against medium has better survivability than heavy.

Feanor · May 2018

Sharee wrote: »

What's not correct? If you have extra stamina bonus on a magicka character compared to having (for example) extra spell damage bonus, you will do less damage. That's what i said. I did not say extra stamina is not useful on a magicka character. Only that your overall damage will be lower if you have it.

The magicka to spell damage ratio is around 10.5 to 1 for most spells, so a max magicka bonus on a set is actually close to the 129 SD in legendary. That stacking max magicka is more beneficial often than stacking SD comes from a) having it much easier to stack magicka than SD (more sources) and b) the benefits of max magicka on other aspects, namely pet damage on and shields on Sorcs. So no, you won't be doing less damage automatically just because one bonus is SD and WD instead of magicka or stamina.

Sharee wrote: »

I said it is burst. Not that it is guaranteed. Also, it was just an example of a "burst" set, as opposed to a slow-acting DOT set.

Burst may or may not land. Oblivion damage is the safe option - it's way less burst, but it hits regardless of the opponent's build or his reaction.

Edziu · May 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Your logic wants to totally cover up fact that skill gap is the main thing in every competitive online game and without it this is just game with brainless mashing of the buttons and counting You'll get lucky 1st.

Yes I am entitled to kill certain amount of potatoes.

Can you show me a successful competitive online game where top players and noobs get put in the same arena for the laters to get slaughtered 100 times out of 100 ?

You should be thankful that going out in Cyrodiil to hunt potatoes as a sport is even possible, because you are not going to do that in LoL/DotA/Overwatch and whatever Diamond League you think to be part of.

Umm like almost every online game . Look what is happening in Fortnite for example. If You're top player You can slaughter 1/5 of all players in the match sometimes by 1vXing them. Even between "top players" there is always skill gap which decides or alteast should decide who'll win.

What you all forget here is that ESO is not a competitive game and it will NEVER be one, because of this comparing eso to games like league or dota or cs:go is wrong on that aspect... And even in those games you can make a fresh account and farm noobs 7/24. Hell, I can join a public server in CS:GO and create absolute chaos and imbalance because I'm sitting at supreme rank with maybe 15+ years of counter strike experience, while people in those servers are usually dmg or even lower ranked.

You can't make a matchmaking system in a game that is not built based on competitive play. Which is why games like fortnite or pubg or planetside or battlefield etc does not have any ranking systems. Its fine that a high skill player is able to farm newbies. This does not stop a good game from being popular.

If a game is skill based, those players who are getting farmed will eventually learn how to play. But if those players find what they seek in a crutch set like black rose, viper, sloads etc.. they will get a false feeling of ''getting gud'', and when that crutch is taken away from them, they will be back where they were first, at bottom tier, which is where they deserve for the effort they put in.

Which will cause them to quit the game, and which is exactly what was happened after proc nerfs.

or the classes that ppl like to play get *** on so hard they cant play them by anyone running this set

why would i play a mag sorc, even if it my favorite class if it is at a sever disadvantage to anyone running this?

as far as I see both magsorcs an stamblades are DOMINATING in open world. If they will quit because of sloads I can not help but laugh at their incompetence. At morrowind both stamplars and stamDKs became literally bottom tier just to make stamden look nice and promote sales.

And now here you are complaining about a single set making your class unplayable. Do you see the irony in this?

PS: I do not support low effort playstyles like this. My point is that there are people playing classes in much worse state due to their passion.

I dont know how its on cyro but I can tell you how its on bg's
almsot everyone now running with it and my gameplay on bg's is 100% out if I will get enemies with sload, I hace no any option counter this and dot say me about purge...because its not effective as also everyone are spamming dot and ofc many different debiffs with it so its an miracle if purge will get rin of sload in jsut 2 casts

are you a stamblade main by any change? in the last week I only encountered sloads once. Just once.

yes Im stamblade....and just sload mechanic is killing me nonstop and really for me in bg's its very rare to not get sload in death recap

So you're going to have to actually play like the rest of us now. I wish you good luck.

so drop medium with low health and go on heavy and 2nd morph of cloak to healing? ehh just gg nice work ZOS
not funny, forcing people even more to go on heavy armor because medium armor is to squishy end even big buffs wont help to make medium viable with things like sload if you dont want overpower on max this mediuma rmor

Actually heavy or medium does not matter since this set does stable damage against any target, no matter their resistances.

So saying sloads is a medium counter is not helping your cause really. The set is a counter to every possible defence except healing. And the healing difference between heavy and medium is almost none.

in the end , for a regular stamina player this is not nearly as dangerous as a master dw bleed, and its definitely nowhere near as scary as the old proc sets. So yes, put some proper healing to your build.

I know its doesnt matter on which armor sload proc, it have always same damage, what I had on my mind was I should then go to heavy tankly buildnot because of damage of sload..it in solo at all isnt the problem..it only taking all you healing from vigor if proc on medium armor
uhh aagain..what I had on mind?

to go on heavy armor tankly set mainly because to be able survive more dots on me, damage when I cant cloak, thas why I supposed I need to go on tankly build without cloak as it dont work and heavy will ge me more survivavility than squishy medium + more healing recevied with it

Edziu · May 2018

Maryal wrote: »

While on PTS, I wore sloads. I went to the beach area where the crabs are. I hit a crab for minimal damage and Sloads proc'ed. Did the crab die? Nope. So, I did it again (same crab) and Sloads proc'ed again. Did the crab die now? Nope.

So, if your build is squishier than a crab, that could be a problem. Maybe you could find out what armor crabs wear and use that.

do people especially in non heavy armora also more than 30k health like those crabs? nope, people in medium and light most often have arounr 20k health and even lower with not to mention 2 classes oing for medium/light armor have disabled their main defences, specially 1 class which is nb

Oxalias · May 2018

Omg I'm sorry I got up to page three of the replies and I just couldn't anymore. The part about someone comparing the effect of sloads on the pvp environment by testing it on a mudcrab was too much for me.

I really think people need to realise where they stand on the pvp spectrum.

Ask yourself, Do I play alone in pvp, away and alone from the rest of my faction for most of the time I play in cyro? Or in a small group of under 4?????

If the answer is no, then go back to your zerg, and nothing about pvp balancing really concerns you or effects you.

Now for the other people, I've seen some good insightful comments about this issue, completely dismissed by other players.

Oblivion damage shouldn't exist at all in this game. Why? Cause it's broken. There is no counter. Absolutely none.

"Out heal it like any other damage" 1:

If you have sacrificed a lot of damage, just to survive in pvp like I have. It's not fair that I now have to deal with a dot that's damage isn't reduced by armour. "Don't wear heavy armour then and focus on sustain." Oh yes, and that means that I'll be taking more damage from normal damage, which just because sloads and all these bleeds and dots and oblivion damage exists doesn't mean the original way of doing damage is gone.

"Just out heal it" 2:

Not everyone is a heal bot templar with easy access to purge. But even saying that I DO RUN PURGE, it's not enough two players can put at least 6 dots on you, rending bleed, axe passive bleed, lethal arrow, poison injection, ravaging health, creeping ravaging health, sloads sure there are more. So when you try and cleanse all these dots on you? You can't, as expensive as purge is, you can't even remove all these effects. It only purges 2. Now you can cast it again yes. But, oh no, what's that's 10k magicka gone? "What, that's your whole magicka poool? I have 30k" Yes, I play stam, sucks to play a stam character that isnt' a templar.

"Play in group" Like I said zerglings, nothing wrong with how you play, but you don't have a voice when it comes to technical aspects of the game, unless they were so destructive that it was melting your 10+ group.

"TBH IT ISN'T EVEN THAT GOOD" 3: This is just a troll.

So as you can see, it's not just sloads, it's that sloads even though this has to be the worse has highlighted a problem already existing in the game; two many dots, not enough healing, and Oblvion damage.

Let's recap. Oblivion damage doesn't have a counter. No healing doesn't count as a counter cause you already have to heal for the other normal damage in the game.

Dot's; No, you can't just "Run purge." as a stam character. I do and it's a hell of a thing to do.

How can you disagree? Oh wait, it's cause you run it and you like it don't you. You like how it melts their health with it's easy proc.

I have 26k health and play non-cp. *Normal damage is just class abilities, heavy/light attacks and other things similar, that just do damage.

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2018

BohnT wrote: »

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Your logic wants to totally cover up fact that skill gap is the main thing in every competitive online game and without it this is just game with brainless mashing of the buttons and counting You'll get lucky 1st.

Yes I am entitled to kill certain amount of potatoes.

Can you show me a successful competitive online game where top players and noobs get put in the same arena for the laters to get slaughtered 100 times out of 100 ?

You should be thankful that going out in Cyrodiil to hunt potatoes as a sport is even possible, because you are not going to do that in LoL/DotA/Overwatch and whatever Diamond League you think to be part of.

Umm like almost every online game . Look what is happening in Fortnite for example. If You're top player You can slaughter 1/5 of all players in the match sometimes by 1vXing them. Even between "top players" there is always skill gap which decides or alteast should decide who'll win.

What you all forget here is that ESO is not a competitive game and it will NEVER be one, because of this comparing eso to games like league or dota or cs:go is wrong on that aspect... And even in those games you can make a fresh account and farm noobs 7/24. Hell, I can join a public server in CS:GO and create absolute chaos and imbalance because I'm sitting at supreme rank with maybe 15+ years of counter strike experience, while people in those servers are usually dmg or even lower ranked.

You can't make a matchmaking system in a game that is not built based on competitive play. Which is why games like fortnite or pubg or planetside or battlefield etc does not have any ranking systems. Its fine that a high skill player is able to farm newbies. This does not stop a good game from being popular.

If a game is skill based, those players who are getting farmed will eventually learn how to play. But if those players find what they seek in a crutch set like black rose, viper, sloads etc.. they will get a false feeling of ''getting gud'', and when that crutch is taken away from them, they will be back where they were first, at bottom tier, which is where they deserve for the effort they put in.

Which will cause them to quit the game, and which is exactly what was happened after proc nerfs.

or the classes that ppl like to play get *** on so hard they cant play them by anyone running this set

why would i play a mag sorc, even if it my favorite class if it is at a sever disadvantage to anyone running this?

as far as I see both magsorcs an stamblades are DOMINATING in open world. If they will quit because of sloads I can not help but laugh at their incompetence. At morrowind both stamplars and stamDKs became literally bottom tier just to make stamden look nice and promote sales.

And now here you are complaining about a single set making your class unplayable. Do you see the irony in this?

PS: I do not support low effort playstyles like this. My point is that there are people playing classes in much worse state due to their passion.

I dont know how its on cyro but I can tell you how its on bg's
almsot everyone now running with it and my gameplay on bg's is 100% out if I will get enemies with sload, I hace no any option counter this and dot say me about purge...because its not effective as also everyone are spamming dot and ofc many different debiffs with it so its an miracle if purge will get rin of sload in jsut 2 casts

are you a stamblade main by any change? in the last week I only encountered sloads once. Just once.

yes Im stamblade....and just sload mechanic is killing me nonstop and really for me in bg's its very rare to not get sload in death recap

So you're going to have to actually play like the rest of us now. I wish you good luck.

so drop medium with low health and go on heavy and 2nd morph of cloak to healing? ehh just gg nice work ZOS
not funny, forcing people even more to go on heavy armor because medium armor is to squishy end even big buffs wont help to make medium viable with things like sload if you dont want overpower on max this mediuma rmor

Actually heavy or medium does not matter since this set does stable damage against any target, no matter their resistances.

So saying sloads is a medium counter is not helping your cause really. The set is a counter to every possible defence except healing. And the healing difference between heavy and medium is almost none.

in the end , for a regular stamina player this is not nearly as dangerous as a master dw bleed, and its definitely nowhere near as scary as the old proc sets. So yes, put some proper healing to your build.

Imma be that guy and randomly point out that heavy armor has a passive that increases healing received by 12%
Hope they make sloads not stack before Summerset hits consoles though.

It's 8% and medium armor gets 12% more wpndmg + more crit rating which translates into more healing, also medium has dodge and shuffle to avoid incoming damage. Depending who you fight against medium has better survivability than heavy.

Yep, and heavy armor has at least 20% more health regen and also at least 10% more health on top of higher mitigation against anything that hits them that isn't a bleed or oblivion damage. It's right to include wpn dmg and crit in the comparison, but you shouldn't exclude other factors as well.
P.S. A HA build can dodge as well, just not as frequent. Also: Blur

Qbiken · May 2018

"Play in group" Like I said zerglings, nothing wrong with how you play, but you don't have a voice when it comes to technical aspects of the game, unless they were so destructive that it was melting your 10+ group.

If we could stop glorifying small-scale and solo-players as if they had more sense off balance than others that would be great.....

And 10+ man group a zerg? lmao xD

Sharee · May 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

What's not correct? If you have extra stamina bonus on a magicka character compared to having (for example) extra spell damage bonus, you will do less damage. That's what i said. I did not say extra stamina is not useful on a magicka character. Only that your overall damage will be lower if you have it.

The magicka to spell damage ratio is around 10.5 to 1 for most spells, so a max magicka bonus on a set is actually close to the 129 SD in legendary. That stacking max magicka is more beneficial often than stacking SD comes from a) having it much easier to stack magicka than SD (more sources) and b) the benefits of max magicka on other aspects, namely pet damage on and shields on Sorcs. So no, you won't be doing less damage automatically just because one bonus is SD and WD instead of magicka or stamina.

I wrote that having a stamina bonus on a magicka character means your damage will be lower.
You reply that stacking magicka is more benefical than stacking spell damage.

???

Koensol · May 2018

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

#2 You assuming that 3k additional DPS on You wouldnt change much when You fight 3 potatoes You would kill normally ?

The problem here is that people assume that killing "3 potatoes" is "normal", and thus any change to the game's rules that makes it so you can no longer do it must be broken.

If the game released right now, for the first time, with sload, the fact you can not kill the above would be the new "normal".

It is the game's rules that determine who you should be able to kill, not the other way around.

No ? 1st of all game was released 4 years ago so rules apply to how it looks like not how it could look like. Also even if game would start tomorrrow if I would be able to kill 3 potatoes when they're in anything else but I wouldnt when they all have Sload that would mean the same thing as it means today , that the set is broken and carries people. It's not like this is the 1st set in ESO that is doing that. It was happening since early days of the game with larger or smaller impact and same as then same right now killing 3 potatoes was normal and when they were carried by sets and suddenly started to be real issue this setup was called broken. It's not like there wasnt sets nerfs in the past because potato players were carried too much. It's never normal when some set is carrying people too much even if the game would start right now from zero. It's always easy to tell when set is carrying people.

"I would be able to kill X potatoes, if only they did not have Y! Therefore Y is bad, and should be nerfed!"

You act like you are entitled to kill X "potatoes", and thus anything that prevents you from doing that is bad. That's just not how it works.

The other way around. You take the environment the game gives you(which includes Y), and then test your limits against that. If you can kill X potatoes - good for you. If you can't... don't blame Y. It's part of the game. Either you can deal with it, or you can't.

What kind of nonsense is this? If we apply this logic to the game, all of the cancerous OP stuff in this game would be justified, because hey "it's part of the game. Deal with it." SMH.

I was talking specifically about the attitude of "i could kill X by myself before, which means im good, which means i deserve to kill X no matter what, and anything that makes it so i can not kill X is cancerous OP"

Sure, there may be OP things in the game, and you absolutely should voice your opinion if it is a valid concern, but "It makes me lose to 6 players!" definitely isn't one.

I disagree. While in theory what you say could be valid in some situations, you cannot just apply this logic and be done with it. Sloads is obviously cancer and hardcounters specific builds with unavoidable damage on top of all the other tools being used against you. And it is being done by a proc mind you. So it is absolute zero skill cheese. This has nothing to do with what sets I wore before the patch. If the application of sloads gives a player such an edge as to counter wntire builds with 1 set, then how in the world can you say "It's part of this game. Deal with it"?

I'll make a wild guess and say that's exactly what the set was meant to do - counter builds which did not have enough counters before.

And it is by no means "free, on top of everything else". Using sload means half you set bonuses are useless for the purpose of damage dealing(which lowers your overall damage output), and you get a slow-acting dot instead of another set like caluurion, sacrificing significant burst - in a game where burst is the king.

In other words, it is not the silver bullet you make it to be. It just kills you in situations you would have survived otherwise.

In the current meta where everyone can run 5-5-2, you barely lose any damage when running sloads. Not to mention the proc actually makes up for it more than enough. TTK is lowest it has ever been since one tamriel.

At the bolded. If you think that is an acceptable way of balancing the game, then we are done here. Balance shouldn't be about hardcounters. Nobody likes losing simply because someone slotted a particular set. It makes the game incredibly frustrating for everyone that is even a tad bit competitive. Combat should be about skill, knowledge and tactics. Not using cheesy hardcounters that leave the other party with very slim chances to survive. Of you ask me, all hard counters should be removed from the game, because all they do is give bad players the tools to beat better players. 10/10 gameplay.

If something is overperforming, ADJUST IT. I am so freaking tired of ZOS with their blanket fixes and one size fits all changes that do nothing more than screw over the builds that are not even overperforming. Latest example: befoul cp. It completely *** over any non OP healing, while the real problem (BoL spam) is not even affected because they can just cleanse

Can you not see the folly in this approach to balancing?

Feanor · May 2018

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

What's not correct? If you have extra stamina bonus on a magicka character compared to having (for example) extra spell damage bonus, you will do less damage. That's what i said. I did not say extra stamina is not useful on a magicka character. Only that your overall damage will be lower if you have it.

The magicka to spell damage ratio is around 10.5 to 1 for most spells, so a max magicka bonus on a set is actually close to the 129 SD in legendary. That stacking max magicka is more beneficial often than stacking SD comes from a) having it much easier to stack magicka than SD (more sources) and b) the benefits of max magicka on other aspects, namely pet damage on and shields on Sorcs. So no, you won't be doing less damage automatically just because one bonus is SD and WD instead of magicka or stamina.

I wrote that having a stamina bonus on a magicka character means your damage will be lower.
You reply that stacking magicka is more benefical than stacking spell damage.

???

I wrote that stacking max magicka is easier than stacking spell damage because spell damage has less sources and less amplifiers. The benefits of stacking max mag are class specific. Most people don't stack max mag because it's more damage, but because it's more utility.

Sharee · May 2018

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

#2 You assuming that 3k additional DPS on You wouldnt change much when You fight 3 potatoes You would kill normally ?

The problem here is that people assume that killing "3 potatoes" is "normal", and thus any change to the game's rules that makes it so you can no longer do it must be broken.

If the game released right now, for the first time, with sload, the fact you can not kill the above would be the new "normal".

It is the game's rules that determine who you should be able to kill, not the other way around.

No ? 1st of all game was released 4 years ago so rules apply to how it looks like not how it could look like. Also even if game would start tomorrrow if I would be able to kill 3 potatoes when they're in anything else but I wouldnt when they all have Sload that would mean the same thing as it means today , that the set is broken and carries people. It's not like this is the 1st set in ESO that is doing that. It was happening since early days of the game with larger or smaller impact and same as then same right now killing 3 potatoes was normal and when they were carried by sets and suddenly started to be real issue this setup was called broken. It's not like there wasnt sets nerfs in the past because potato players were carried too much. It's never normal when some set is carrying people too much even if the game would start right now from zero. It's always easy to tell when set is carrying people.

"I would be able to kill X potatoes, if only they did not have Y! Therefore Y is bad, and should be nerfed!"

You act like you are entitled to kill X "potatoes", and thus anything that prevents you from doing that is bad. That's just not how it works.

The other way around. You take the environment the game gives you(which includes Y), and then test your limits against that. If you can kill X potatoes - good for you. If you can't... don't blame Y. It's part of the game. Either you can deal with it, or you can't.

What kind of nonsense is this? If we apply this logic to the game, all of the cancerous OP stuff in this game would be justified, because hey "it's part of the game. Deal with it." SMH.

I was talking specifically about the attitude of "i could kill X by myself before, which means im good, which means i deserve to kill X no matter what, and anything that makes it so i can not kill X is cancerous OP"

Sure, there may be OP things in the game, and you absolutely should voice your opinion if it is a valid concern, but "It makes me lose to 6 players!" definitely isn't one.

I disagree. While in theory what you say could be valid in some situations, you cannot just apply this logic and be done with it. Sloads is obviously cancer and hardcounters specific builds with unavoidable damage on top of all the other tools being used against you. And it is being done by a proc mind you. So it is absolute zero skill cheese. This has nothing to do with what sets I wore before the patch. If the application of sloads gives a player such an edge as to counter wntire builds with 1 set, then how in the world can you say "It's part of this game. Deal with it"?

I'll make a wild guess and say that's exactly what the set was meant to do - counter builds which did not have enough counters before.

And it is by no means "free, on top of everything else". Using sload means half you set bonuses are useless for the purpose of damage dealing(which lowers your overall damage output), and you get a slow-acting dot instead of another set like caluurion, sacrificing significant burst - in a game where burst is the king.

In other words, it is not the silver bullet you make it to be. It just kills you in situations you would have survived otherwise.

In the current meta where everyone can run 5-5-2, you barely lose any damage when running sloads. Not to mention the proc actually makes up for it more than enough. TTK is lowest it has ever been since one tamriel.

At the bolded. If you think that is an acceptable way of balancing the game, then we are done here. Balance shouldn't be about hardcounters. Nobody likes losing simply because someone slotted a particular set. It makes the game incredibly frustrating for everyone that is even a tad bit competitive. Combat should be about skill, knowledge and tactics. Not using cheesy hardcounters that leave the other party with very slim chances to survive. Of you ask me, all hard counters should be removed from the game, because all they do is give bad players the tools to beat better players. 10/10 gameplay.

If something is overperforming, ADJUST IT. I am so freaking tired of ZOS with their blanket fixes and one size fits all changes that do nothing more than screw over the builds that are not even overperforming. Latest example: befoul cp. It completely *** over any non OP healing, while the real problem (BoL spam) is not even affected because they can just cleanse

Can you not see the folly in this approach to balancing?

That's not how MMO's work. If you want that you might consider a FPS where every player has exactly the same tools.
I prefer variety, where i can slot mark to counter cloak, slot wings to counter frags, slot defile to counter heals, and yes, slot sload and sacrifice burst to gain steady source of damage that prevents a 5% health sorc from laughing at me from behind a 30K shield.

Sharee · May 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

What's not correct? If you have extra stamina bonus on a magicka character compared to having (for example) extra spell damage bonus, you will do less damage. That's what i said. I did not say extra stamina is not useful on a magicka character. Only that your overall damage will be lower if you have it.

The magicka to spell damage ratio is around 10.5 to 1 for most spells, so a max magicka bonus on a set is actually close to the 129 SD in legendary. That stacking max magicka is more beneficial often than stacking SD comes from a) having it much easier to stack magicka than SD (more sources) and b) the benefits of max magicka on other aspects, namely pet damage on and shields on Sorcs. So no, you won't be doing less damage automatically just because one bonus is SD and WD instead of magicka or stamina.

I wrote that having a stamina bonus on a magicka character means your damage will be lower.
You reply that stacking magicka is more benefical than stacking spell damage.

???

I wrote that stacking max magicka is easier than stacking spell damage because spell damage has less sources and less amplifiers. The benefits of stacking max mag are class specific. Most people don't stack max mag because it's more damage, but because it's more utility.

Yes yes but you wrote all that in response to me saying that having max stamina bonus on a magicka character lowers the damage of said character.

In other words, your reply had nothing to do with the sentence it was replying to.

Koensol · May 2018

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

#2 You assuming that 3k additional DPS on You wouldnt change much when You fight 3 potatoes You would kill normally ?

The problem here is that people assume that killing "3 potatoes" is "normal", and thus any change to the game's rules that makes it so you can no longer do it must be broken.

If the game released right now, for the first time, with sload, the fact you can not kill the above would be the new "normal".

It is the game's rules that determine who you should be able to kill, not the other way around.

No ? 1st of all game was released 4 years ago so rules apply to how it looks like not how it could look like. Also even if game would start tomorrrow if I would be able to kill 3 potatoes when they're in anything else but I wouldnt when they all have Sload that would mean the same thing as it means today , that the set is broken and carries people. It's not like this is the 1st set in ESO that is doing that. It was happening since early days of the game with larger or smaller impact and same as then same right now killing 3 potatoes was normal and when they were carried by sets and suddenly started to be real issue this setup was called broken. It's not like there wasnt sets nerfs in the past because potato players were carried too much. It's never normal when some set is carrying people too much even if the game would start right now from zero. It's always easy to tell when set is carrying people.

"I would be able to kill X potatoes, if only they did not have Y! Therefore Y is bad, and should be nerfed!"

You act like you are entitled to kill X "potatoes", and thus anything that prevents you from doing that is bad. That's just not how it works.

The other way around. You take the environment the game gives you(which includes Y), and then test your limits against that. If you can kill X potatoes - good for you. If you can't... don't blame Y. It's part of the game. Either you can deal with it, or you can't.

What kind of nonsense is this? If we apply this logic to the game, all of the cancerous OP stuff in this game would be justified, because hey "it's part of the game. Deal with it." SMH.

I was talking specifically about the attitude of "i could kill X by myself before, which means im good, which means i deserve to kill X no matter what, and anything that makes it so i can not kill X is cancerous OP"

Sure, there may be OP things in the game, and you absolutely should voice your opinion if it is a valid concern, but "It makes me lose to 6 players!" definitely isn't one.

I disagree. While in theory what you say could be valid in some situations, you cannot just apply this logic and be done with it. Sloads is obviously cancer and hardcounters specific builds with unavoidable damage on top of all the other tools being used against you. And it is being done by a proc mind you. So it is absolute zero skill cheese. This has nothing to do with what sets I wore before the patch. If the application of sloads gives a player such an edge as to counter wntire builds with 1 set, then how in the world can you say "It's part of this game. Deal with it"?

I'll make a wild guess and say that's exactly what the set was meant to do - counter builds which did not have enough counters before.

And it is by no means "free, on top of everything else". Using sload means half you set bonuses are useless for the purpose of damage dealing(which lowers your overall damage output), and you get a slow-acting dot instead of another set like caluurion, sacrificing significant burst - in a game where burst is the king.

In other words, it is not the silver bullet you make it to be. It just kills you in situations you would have survived otherwise.

In the current meta where everyone can run 5-5-2, you barely lose any damage when running sloads. Not to mention the proc actually makes up for it more than enough. TTK is lowest it has ever been since one tamriel.

At the bolded. If you think that is an acceptable way of balancing the game, then we are done here. Balance shouldn't be about hardcounters. Nobody likes losing simply because someone slotted a particular set. It makes the game incredibly frustrating for everyone that is even a tad bit competitive. Combat should be about skill, knowledge and tactics. Not using cheesy hardcounters that leave the other party with very slim chances to survive. Of you ask me, all hard counters should be removed from the game, because all they do is give bad players the tools to beat better players. 10/10 gameplay.

If something is overperforming, ADJUST IT. I am so freaking tired of ZOS with their blanket fixes and one size fits all changes that do nothing more than screw over the builds that are not even overperforming. Latest example: befoul cp. It completely *** over any non OP healing, while the real problem (BoL spam) is not even affected because they can just cleanse

Can you not see the folly in this approach to balancing?

That's not how MMO's work. If you want that you might consider a FPS where every player has exactly the same tools.
I prefer variety, where i can slot mark to counter cloak, slot wings to counter frags, slot defile to counter heals, and yes, slot sload and sacrifice burst to gain steady source of damage that prevents a 5% health sorc from laughing at me from behind a 30K shield.

I never said I wanted 100% equality. All I ask for is an environment in which skill is more important than which proc set you are using. Variety is good, in a way in which you can achieve similar results in different ways. Hard counters do not fit this ideal, and thus I disagree with them.

You didn't respond to my comment about blanket fixes, so I will reiterate: If something is overperforming, tune it down, just like how you tune up something that is underperforming. But don't create OP hard counters or bs CP stars like befoul that screw over more than just the problematic builds. That is the lazy way to balance.

Sharee · May 2018

Koensol wrote: »

You didn't respond to my comment about blanket fixes, so I will reiterate: If something is overperforming, tune it down, just like how you tune up something that is underperforming. But don't create OP hard counters or bs CP stars like befoul that screw over more than just the problematic builds. That is the lazy way to balance.

Tune down = nerf. That's how the majority of playerbase will immediately react to it. From a developer standpoint, creating a counter to something that is otherwise overperforming is a much better solution.

But, i'm not a developer so really, i don't see why you wanted my response to that.

Feanor · May 2018

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

What's not correct? If you have extra stamina bonus on a magicka character compared to having (for example) extra spell damage bonus, you will do less damage. That's what i said. I did not say extra stamina is not useful on a magicka character. Only that your overall damage will be lower if you have it.

The magicka to spell damage ratio is around 10.5 to 1 for most spells, so a max magicka bonus on a set is actually close to the 129 SD in legendary. That stacking max magicka is more beneficial often than stacking SD comes from a) having it much easier to stack magicka than SD (more sources) and b) the benefits of max magicka on other aspects, namely pet damage on and shields on Sorcs. So no, you won't be doing less damage automatically just because one bonus is SD and WD instead of magicka or stamina.

I wrote that having a stamina bonus on a magicka character means your damage will be lower.
You reply that stacking magicka is more benefical than stacking spell damage.

???

I wrote that stacking max magicka is easier than stacking spell damage because spell damage has less sources and less amplifiers. The benefits of stacking max mag are class specific. Most people don't stack max mag because it's more damage, but because it's more utility.

Yes yes but you wrote all that in response to me saying that having max stamina bonus on a magicka character lowers the damage of said character.

In other words, your reply had nothing to do with the sentence it was replying to.

I just had another look, and it turns out I remembered the 3 piece bonus wrong. Apologies. It's just max stam, so yes, you're correct on that point. Whether 1096 magicka = about 104 SD will make a meaningful difference is another discussion (to me it doesn't make a difference, and I'd take the stam over the damage any time). I don't think the "tradeoff" is as impactful as you think it is.

Sharee · May 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

What's not correct? If you have extra stamina bonus on a magicka character compared to having (for example) extra spell damage bonus, you will do less damage. That's what i said. I did not say extra stamina is not useful on a magicka character. Only that your overall damage will be lower if you have it.

The magicka to spell damage ratio is around 10.5 to 1 for most spells, so a max magicka bonus on a set is actually close to the 129 SD in legendary. That stacking max magicka is more beneficial often than stacking SD comes from a) having it much easier to stack magicka than SD (more sources) and b) the benefits of max magicka on other aspects, namely pet damage on and shields on Sorcs. So no, you won't be doing less damage automatically just because one bonus is SD and WD instead of magicka or stamina.

I wrote that having a stamina bonus on a magicka character means your damage will be lower.
You reply that stacking magicka is more benefical than stacking spell damage.

???

I wrote that stacking max magicka is easier than stacking spell damage because spell damage has less sources and less amplifiers. The benefits of stacking max mag are class specific. Most people don't stack max mag because it's more damage, but because it's more utility.

Yes yes but you wrote all that in response to me saying that having max stamina bonus on a magicka character lowers the damage of said character.

In other words, your reply had nothing to do with the sentence it was replying to.

I just had another look, and it turns out I remembered the 3 piece bonus wrong. Apologies. It's just max stam, so yes, you're correct on that point. Whether 1096 magicka = about 104 SD will make a meaningful difference is another discussion (to me it doesn't make a difference, and I'd take the stam over the damage any time). I don't think the "tradeoff" is as impactful as you think it is.

No problem.

Minalan · May 2018

CaliMade wrote: »

@Blobsky

You failed all of us rational and non biased minds by posting this here.

ZOS only comes to threads to stop people from being toxic.

These forums are busted and this game is busted.

Nobody on these forums has the ability to see the bigger picture.

Half the kids Only see things through a straw attached to the map legend

With sets like Sloads, Zaan, Shieldbreaker, Cauulrions(spelling), fassalas, and duroks bane.

With skills like cloak, Reverb, incap, and soul assault, bleeds.

Clearly indefensible sets and mechanics

Un-counterable, un-mitigatable damage...Is busted, was busted, and will always be busted

jokers saying AOE stops it not realizing that there are players smarter than them that actually have the mental capacity to not use somthing that hits multiple targets. When useing a set that you only want to effect one person.

There is no reasoning with people here, and the devs dont listen because they dont really care about this game. All they want is for that paycheck at the end of the week. So they can feed thier kids. They truly are not worried about wether pvp is skilled or not.

Ill tell you what i tell all my friends and myself when we complain about video games.

Does it make you mad? Is it game breaking TO YOU?

Does it make you want to stop playing? If so, the dont.

Go play fortnite,Look at SypherPK, he dropped eso and now he is doing better than ever, i suggest you do the same.

I myself am about this > || < close to deleting this game. And every week i play less and less one 16k Zaan at a time.

This right here. This guy gets it. Get this guy a beer!

The ONLY feedback the ZOS devs will ever listen to from ANY of us EVER is as follows:

“Tell us why you’ve decided to cancel your subscription”

1. PVP Balance
2. Other (Please specify): The proc sets are ridiculous again, I’ll be back when you fix Zaan and Sloads. I’ll be playing other games until then, and spending my hard earned money elsewhere.

Someone someWHERE at ZOS will actually look into why they aren’t getting paid anymore. When it gets bad enough, they’ll do something about it.

Blobsky · May 2018

Wait why did I fail you xD im just a gamer, not zos

ezio45 · May 2018

Oxalias wrote: »

Omg I'm sorry I got up to page three of the replies and I just couldn't anymore. The part about someone comparing the effect of sloads on the pvp environment by testing it on a mudcrab was too much for me.

I really think people need to realise where they stand on the pvp spectrum.

Ask yourself, Do I play alone in pvp, away and alone from the rest of my faction for most of the time I play in cyro? Or in a small group of under 4?????

If the answer is no, then go back to your zerg, and nothing about pvp balancing really concerns you or effects you.

Now for the other people, I've seen some good insightful comments about this issue, completely dismissed by other players.

Oblivion damage shouldn't exist at all in this game. Why? Cause it's broken. There is no counter. Absolutely none.

"Out heal it like any other damage" 1:

If you have sacrificed a lot of damage, just to survive in pvp like I have. It's not fair that I now have to deal with a dot that's damage isn't reduced by armour. "Don't wear heavy armour then and focus on sustain." Oh yes, and that means that I'll be taking more damage from normal damage, which just because sloads and all these bleeds and dots and oblivion damage exists doesn't mean the original way of doing damage is gone.

"Just out heal it" 2:

Not everyone is a heal bot templar with easy access to purge. But even saying that I DO RUN PURGE, it's not enough two players can put at least 6 dots on you, rending bleed, axe passive bleed, lethal arrow, poison injection, ravaging health, creeping ravaging health, sloads sure there are more. So when you try and cleanse all these dots on you? You can't, as expensive as purge is, you can't even remove all these effects. It only purges 2. Now you can cast it again yes. But, oh no, what's that's 10k magicka gone? "What, that's your whole magicka poool? I have 30k" Yes, I play stam, sucks to play a stam character that isnt' a templar.

"Play in group" Like I said zerglings, nothing wrong with how you play, but you don't have a voice when it comes to technical aspects of the game, unless they were so destructive that it was melting your 10+ group.

"TBH IT ISN'T EVEN THAT GOOD" 3: This is just a troll.

So as you can see, it's not just sloads, it's that sloads even though this has to be the worse has highlighted a problem already existing in the game; two many dots, not enough healing, and Oblvion damage.

Let's recap. Oblivion damage doesn't have a counter. No healing doesn't count as a counter cause you already have to heal for the other normal damage in the game.

Dot's; No, you can't just "Run purge." as a stam character. I do and it's a hell of a thing to do.

How can you disagree? Oh wait, it's cause you run it and you like it don't you. You like how it melts their health with it's easy proc.

I have 26k health and play non-cp. *Normal damage is just class abilities, heavy/light attacks and other things similar, that just do damage.

TY!!!!!!!!!!! someone else gets it

Joy_Division · May 2018

I'll say this to those defending the set.

I don't think it's a good analysis to examine the set in isolation. All proc sets look meh in isolation. There is a reason none of the top end raid guild use 5 piece proc bonuses: precisely because they don;t match up with other sets in a pure DPS/damage context.

Instead look at the set in its the context in which it is going to be played. The people using this won;t be using it against St. Olhms, the Serpent or a PVE boss who has literally million of health and could care less about 873 damage ticks. Instead, they will be using it against players with barely 20K-30K health in Battelgrounds in conjuction with other proc sets like Zaan and Caalurian without the benefit of CP points to defend themselves.

I hopped into a "random" battleground and got match-up against a premade group, 3 of which wore Zaan, 2 of which used Sloads, 1 wore Overwhelming Surge, and another had Selenes. What a miserable experience I could not wait to be over. I had so many prc sets on me that even after I cleansed on my templar, I *still* had Zaan active on me. Proc sets by themselves are not a problem. Multiple proc sets hitting me at the same time overtaxes the ability characters have to defend themselves: I have 1 global cooldown (assuming I'm not stunned) and my non defiled (i.e. never) breath of life maybe, maybe, will hit 5K in no CP. If you can;t see how this might be problematic or frustrating gameplay, you are either blind, biased, or insensitive.

And remember this if you are one of those people who applaud sets like this because you think it gives average players a shot at beating better players. Those players who are better than you also have access to this set and because they are better, will kill you even faster and make your gameplay experience even more miserable.