I can definitely agree that resource nodes should be universal so all players can harvest the same node, but they could make it so that it can be completely random which particular resources from that node will be. (Especially in terms of craglorn with the fortified/potent nirncrux.)

Knowledge wrote: »

bellatrixed wrote: »

Okay, let me try to break it down a little more...

Right now, basically the entire ESO economy is based on harvesting mats.

For some reason people think it is "greedy" for people to want to make gold off of stuff they put time and effort into acquiring. It's not. Being greedy would be trying to drive prices higher artificially, but for example the price of Tempering Alloys has remained around 6-8k the whole time I've been playing (only rarely dropping higher or lower) so I think it's pretty safe to say that is the standard/accepted price range for that item. It's what they are worth, why? Because it's what people are willing to pay on a consistent basis and the supply never rises significantly higher than the demand.

What exactly is the replacement going to be if those items suddenly plummet in value because nodes no longer despawn and everyone can loot them, flooding the market with thousands more mats?

How are people going to make gold?

What is your proposed solution if "everyone wins" and gets mats?

I don't raid or PVP, crafting and harvesting is my endgame. I'm not screwing people over, half of what I do is actually based around teaching guildies how to make gold, where to harvest, and crafting stuff for them--on top of using the money from my gathering & crafting to buy what I want. So... What are you proposing my endgame becomes if mat harvesting no longer gives me the gold to buy the things I want?

Seriously, this is such a strange argument. Here's a tip: Stop farming in Hew's Bane or the other "best" farming spots because they're flooded. Go to a lesser used zone nobody thinks to farm in and you'll be astounded by how many nodes fall in your lap. There are already enough nodes for everyone if you aren't trying to farm where everyone else is.

Let me allow you to see a different perspective.

By continuing to make nodes once per person it allows the individual mining them to make money on the mats while the person that didn't arrive fast enough would not benefit at all. The person harvesting the mat is now able to sell it for profit while the high ping player loses out completely.

Supporting this act or being for it is by definition "greed".

Laughable. It's not greed by any definition. It's a game mechanic. What you are advocating is equal distribution of goods. It doesn't work in the real world and a core mechanic in a game shouldn't resort to it either. As your posts continue, it crystal clear that mmos are not your cup of tea.

Knowledge wrote: »

bellatrixed wrote: »

Okay, let me try to break it down a little more...

Right now, basically the entire ESO economy is based on harvesting mats.

For some reason people think it is "greedy" for people to want to make gold off of stuff they put time and effort into acquiring. It's not. Being greedy would be trying to drive prices higher artificially, but for example the price of Tempering Alloys has remained around 6-8k the whole time I've been playing (only rarely dropping higher or lower) so I think it's pretty safe to say that is the standard/accepted price range for that item. It's what they are worth, why? Because it's what people are willing to pay on a consistent basis and the supply never rises significantly higher than the demand.

What exactly is the replacement going to be if those items suddenly plummet in value because nodes no longer despawn and everyone can loot them, flooding the market with thousands more mats?

How are people going to make gold?

What is your proposed solution if "everyone wins" and gets mats?

I don't raid or PVP, crafting and harvesting is my endgame. I'm not screwing people over, half of what I do is actually based around teaching guildies how to make gold, where to harvest, and crafting stuff for them--on top of using the money from my gathering & crafting to buy what I want. So... What are you proposing my endgame becomes if mat harvesting no longer gives me the gold to buy the things I want?

Seriously, this is such a strange argument. Here's a tip: Stop farming in Hew's Bane or the other "best" farming spots because they're flooded. Go to a lesser used zone nobody thinks to farm in and you'll be astounded by how many nodes fall in your lap. There are already enough nodes for everyone if you aren't trying to farm where everyone else is.

Let me allow you to see a different perspective.

By continuing to make nodes once per person it allows the individual mining them to make money on the mats while the person that didn't arrive fast enough would not benefit at all. The person harvesting the mat is now able to sell it for profit while the high ping player loses out completely.

Supporting this act or being for it is by definition "greed".

The "individual whose ping is not fast enough" can see that there is someone else going for the node, turn left instead of right and harvest the node right next to it. There are plenty of nodes out there. If you are stressing out about someone else getting to nodes faster, maybe try meditation or breathing exercises?

Knowledge wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

I would prefer they be instanced, and appear completely randomly in location without a reliable spawn point. I'd be totally happy with having to work harder to find them if the PvP element was gone.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, Minyassa. There's no need for other players to have to fight each other over nodes or get anxious and upset. It's a game for us to have fun and there is hard content for those that want to take things a step further like Vet Trials and competitive PVP.

Lets let gathering be fun and happy.

So you would make people "not fight over nodes" but make nodes so rare that it would take an eternity to farm enough mats to do anything? That *is* what GW2 does. There are far fewer nodes and they take forever to respawn, so actually going out and "farming" when you need something is a non-starter.

There are plenty of nodes around. There is no need to be upset because someone got to a node first. Really. There isn't. There will be another node 10 feet the other way.

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

Don't GW2 nodes just let you harvest them more than once then despawn? I honestly can't be bothered to reinstall it a 3rd time just to check.

Tabbycat wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken, GW2's instanced nodes only lets you farm from each node once and then starts a timer where you can't farm it again. I'm pretty sure it's a 23 hour timer too. Which makes it an even bigger PITA to farm materials. So no, I wouldn't want instanced nodes if they were on a 23-24 hour timer. That would suck.

Hmmm, I thought the timed rare nodes in FFXIV were a PITA, that sounds even worse.

You usually get 3 items out of a node and then it's locked to you. So if you are doing the daily gatherer quest for lumber or ore you need to find 4 nodes to complete the 10 items it requires.

DuskMarine wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

No. Just no...
Can we please stop trying to change ESO to be like other games? It's not. Please go play those games.

As far as the "Invisible" players, another cause can be a "Phased" player who is actually in another instance of the zone.
At launch this was VERY common and could be the situation here.

its not an instanced zone as craglorn doesnt have instanced zones where all the main farming routes are

Let me explain..
ESO uses a Megaserver and doesn't have "Shards" like WoW.
To control population, they split the zones into separate instances.
Example: You group with 3 friends and meet in Davon's Watch. You can see one of them but the other 2 are "Invisible" or "Out of phase". Yes you are all in Davons, just the other 2 are in a "Different" Davons instance.
At launch it was common to walk up to a node and it disappear in thin air. It was a player phased in another instance that took it. Was a common glitch and "Phasing" can still happen.
Every zone will have a "Instanced Zone" asi it hits a population cap..

I'd support it just to free up slots for the armor I use when I see anybody else near nodes I want in the overland.
Not in Cyrodil though. It's funny the way it is now and it needs to stay that way.

I would for sure. Bring down mat prices, and crafted gear prices (not that I buy crafted gear).

This really has collapsed into statements of whether a person is greedy or not.

If a person isn't greedy, it's obvious how having player-instanced nodes creates a more friendly, less hostile environment. Those who aren't greedy don't want the game to be League of Legends-y just so they can benefit off of it in some way. They'd prefer to permit other players to enjoy themselves if it's in their power to do so.

If a person is greedy it's 'me me me me me me me me' and little else, with weak justifications about the market collapsing. People who don't have a real argument often call upon Chicken Little as scare tactics -- The sky is falling! Except, no, it really isn't. In other games which have had per-player instanced nodes, the market has been fine, even healthier than it is in ESO. Compare ESO's market with Ultima Online in its heydey, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 2, et cetera. Do/Did those games have weak markets? Absolutely not. It's a failed, specious argument that isn't based upon anything other than greed.

There's no reason to deny this other than greed. No reason at all. It's all about 'me me me me me me me' and denying those who're less able (such as disabled people, like myself), or those with bad Internet connections, from being able to harvest. It's a vain attempt to force us to buy from the greedy people.

This kind of toxicity is the exact reason why ZOS should change this.

GW2 alone proves that it won't collapse the market, it proves that that's a lie, through and through. Are there any other arguments to be made? Really? Have there been?

I'm tired of the hostility that node competition leads to, I'd much prefer to be able to enjoy a friendly environment like what Ultima Online and GW2 has. ESO is losing out against GW2 in this way, fairly obviously. GW2 is a much more friendly game, and I say that despite how much I prefer ESO over it. The truth can't be denied. Players are much more ready to work together in GW2 because that's the environment GW2 fosters. You wouldn't need to force grouping (and thus force people to have to play with very antisocial people) if you made hte game a more friendly, less hostile experience in the first place.

ESO would gain a reputation as a more friendly, sociable game by changing this. What would it lose? A tiny, vocal minority? Not even. They won't even stop playing as there are still plenty of other avenues for the market (recipes, furniture, traits, et al).

.

klowdy1 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

I would for sure. Bring down mat prices, and crafted gear prices (not that I buy crafted gear).

Unlikely. If anything, prices would go up.

How would an influx in the number of Mars make the price go up? More of a product, coming from more sources, in any market, decreases value of said product. There is always someone looking to undercut another. If you have more people undercutting...

The game designers would not make it so that there would be more of the product coming from more sources, if I read ZOS correctly. They would attempt to come up with a mechanism that provided the same amount of product, and that would mean fewer sources. This would likely result in players not coming across nodes as frequently, which means that there would be fewer items available for sale and crafting, which would cause prices to increase.

Okay, so, short answer, @Knowledge, no. I don't support this.

I could see a design, from the ground up, where crafting mats are handled as more of a collectable. You find and mark nodes on your map, and then craft based on the discovered resources. Ex: You need 3 iron for this item? Then you need to have discovered three iron ore locations, and those persist even if you've already interacted with them.

Is this a good system for ESO? Well, no. It's not. It is a legitimate crafting system you could implement for your game, if you were designing it from the ground up. Where things like treasure or crafting nodes, were collectibles that you used to upgrade your character in various ways.

However, this is a ground level, fundamental design choice. Arguably it's not a good fit for an MMO in general, because it's a minimal grind system. Need stuff from a dungeon? Run it once, get the unlocks, and then you can make the gear from it. Need more crafting mats? Find them once, and you're able to craft and upgrade gear, with just some gold (or some other currency.)

So far as it goes, you could design a game where all of your gear selection functioned on unlocks like this. Collect treasure, buy unlocks from a character upgrade screen, pick your loadout, and scamper off. While streamlining the entire practice of actually selling treasure, and shopping for gear into a single currency/progression system. Not something that would fit with ESO, and probably not something ZOS is interested in (at least not for this), but the possibility exists.

starkerealm wrote: »

Okay, so, short answer, @Knowledge, no. I don't support this.

I could see a design, from the ground up, where crafting mats are handled as more of a collectable. You find and mark nodes on your map, and then craft based on the discovered resources. Ex: You need 3 iron for this item? Then you need to have discovered three iron ore locations, and those persist even if you've already interacted with them.

Is this a good system for ESO? Well, no. It's not. It is a legitimate crafting system you could implement for your game, if you were designing it from the ground up. Where things like treasure or crafting nodes, were collectibles that you used to upgrade your character in various ways.

However, this is a ground level, fundamental design choice. Arguably it's not a good fit for an MMO in general, because it's a minimal grind system. Need stuff from a dungeon? Run it once, get the unlocks, and then you can make the gear from it. Need more crafting mats? Find them once, and you're able to craft and upgrade gear, with just some gold (or some other currency.)

So far as it goes, you could design a game where all of your gear selection functioned on unlocks like this. Collect treasure, buy unlocks from a character upgrade screen, pick your loadout, and scamper off. While streamlining the entire practice of actually selling treasure, and shopping for gear into a single currency/progression system. Not something that would fit with ESO, and probably not something ZOS is interested in (at least not for this), but the possibility exists.

Thanks for commenting that's a very interesting idea.

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

Maybe they could add it as a "feature" of a future chapter, like Craglorn has nirn and Summerset has some of its own nodes unavailable in the base game, this chapter has group gathering with gathering quests and a "gatherers motif" only available as a rare drop from the nodes in the new chapter.

Lets all be honest, besides this issue there are a lot of things that could be changed about the game to make the game more MMO-like.

Look at some of the DLC quest lines for example. It wouldn't hurt for there to be an instance that required you to get a buddy every few quests like a two man or three man+.

We need things to encourage group play like universal nodes.

Vote against the bots. Vote for instanced nodes.

Knowledge wrote: »

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

Maybe they could add it as a "feature" of a future chapter, like Craglorn has nirn and Summerset has some of its own nodes unavailable in the base game, this chapter has group gathering with gathering quests and a "gatherers motif" only available as a rare drop from the nodes in the new chapter.

Lets all be honest, besides this issue there are a lot of things that could be changed about the game to make the game more MMO-like.

Look at some of the DLC quest lines for example. It wouldn't hurt for their to be an instance that required you to get a buddy every few quests like a two man or three man+.

We need things to encourage group play like universal nodes.

Vote against the bots. Vote for instanced nodes.

I'm not sure how my suggestion got that reply from you but....ok, sure.

Marto wrote: »

As soon as I saw the title, an idea popped into my head.

What if ZOS added a "super node" that has a random chance the spawn? Like a huge tree branch, or a large deposit of ore. Perhaps this node could be mined by 20 or so people before it despawns.

I feel it would be a cool addition to encourage community interaction. Even people saying "Hey, there's a huge branch outside this town, go check it out!" in zone chat could be a neat way to encourage interaction.

That is a really great idea!

When I first started playing, I would have said hell yes to this. Hated when i went for a node, sometimes multiple, and the guy next to me beat me to all of them.

But now, especially with keen eye, there really are so many nodes out there, you just turn around, and BAM, more nodes. I say it's fine the way it is.