Would you support resource nodes being for everyone?

DuskMarine

Axoinus wrote: »

Why stop with universal nodes? Just give everyone unlimited materials!

well what alot of people that are for some reason against this arent noticing are your not just in competition with other normal players. theres hundreds of bots per zone that farm as well, and now there are legit invisible people running around collecting mats as well and the only thing you can see is their pet rolling from node to node with them(also the one disguise isnt the cause either as there is complete and utterly nothing there at all not even a disguise animation). so honestly we need our own nodes now so legit players can get back into the market of mats and even for their own usage.

Knowledge

I mean isn't it "pro bots" to not support universal nodes?

Lylith

DuskMarine wrote: »

Axoinus wrote: »

Why stop with universal nodes? Just give everyone unlimited materials!

well what alot of people that are for some reason against this arent noticing are your not just in competition with other normal players. theres hundreds of bots per zone that farm as well, and now there are legit invisible people running around collecting mats as well and the only thing you can see is their pet rolling from node to node with them(also the one disguise isnt the cause either as there is complete and utterly nothing there at all not even a disguise animation). so honestly we need our own nodes now so legit players can get back into the market of mats and even for their own usage.

those invisible *** have been with us for years.

i used to think it was some kind of a glitch.

AlnilamE

AuldWolf wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Gathering is a solitary activity whether the nodes are shared or not.

This is simply not true. This is the perspective of someone who's only ever played games where gathering is competitive. In Guild Wars 2, there are guilds that actually go gathering together so that they can chat whilst gathering. In Ultima Online it was commonplace to hook up with people you met while out gathering to be sociable. Then you'd go from gathering to doing content together and it was lovely.

Well, I'm going to admit that ESO was the first MMO I played, so my first experience was with global nodes. I don't necessarily see it as "competitive" though. I think of it as sharing. As in the real world, sometimes more than one person wants a resource and we sort it out. I think learning that not everything is there for your own benefit is also a factor in sociability.

However, I do also play GW2, and I don't think it ever occurred to us to go on a gathering expedition. We do hearts and stories and guild quest and hero points and Mastery points, so plenty to do together.

I'd say that gathering is actually the cornerstone of whether an MMO is more social or not. It's like it sets the mood. If, out in the world, you feel cagey about other players being around because you don't want to have to fight for resources? You're not going to want to walk with those players and do content with them later. If, however, you can walk with other people and gather? You will want to do content with them.

I think that's a matter of personal opinion. I've never had such a negative experience while gathering that I remembered the player's name after.

Having global gathering nodes actually leads to a more antisocial MMO. If anything would help fix ESO's solo-only problem, this is it.

I don't think that at all.

Edited to fix broken quote tags. Whoops.

Edit: Think about it, which sounds more social?

a.) A system which encourages players to compete over resources so that players are anxious about seeing other players, resulting in a system where each player tries to find an area of the world which has the least player congestion in order to be able to get what they need.

b.) A system which allows the player to go wherever they want to accomplish the same task; A system where players would be happy to see one another and could work together. A system where if one person sees a node, they can direct everyone else to it in a friendly way, fostering friendship and connections between people that will give the game a more positive feeling to it.

Which sounds more social to you? I remember what Ultima Online was like. I don't know how old you are or if you ever played Ultima Online, but it was a more social experience because people could work together. If you actively stop people from working together however they want, it's going to work against the game being a social one.

That's the thing though. Frustration tolerance and considering the needs of others are social skills too. So if you consider practicing those skills a social activity, then B actually sounds "more social" because you are learning/practicing those skills.

There is a ton of stuff people can do together in ESO, and the resources are plentiful enough that yielding to someone else is not going to be a hardship.

One Tamriel happened so the community wouldn't be so divided. If one person wanted to do a quest in Reaper's March, but others weren't high enough level, it couldn't happen. Now, people can group and go anywhere. This happening to resource nodes should've happened with One Tamriel, because it's in the same spirit of it.

Resource nodes being instanced to the player is very much in the spirit of group play. Any Ultima Online player would tell you that. I remember when large fishing groups happened in Ultima Online... I just miss it. Why does it have to be this soulless competition? What do you get out of it?

I personally don't see it as souless competition. I see it as sharing the environment with other players. Sure sometimes there is friendly competition with someone, and some people are jerks, but again, there are SO many nodes in ESO that it's not an issue.

Even when resources are more scarce, for example, it all depends on who is playing. In my guild, when we have events where we run around together, we take turns for chests going down the group roster. We joke about making character names that start with an A, but it's mostly a joke (*hides Alnibis in the basement*). People who join us are sometimes surprised at that, but it's the kind of thing that evolved naturally based on who we are.

As an aside, fishing is one of the things in ESO where being in a group (or simply fishing together) is an advantage.

Edit 2: This is something that old MMOs actually got right. If you allow social groups to form naturally by letting the game feel social, you don't need to force them. The reason that modern MMOs have forced grouping (like trials) is because they've forced the game to be antisocial in a number of other areas. When you force people into situations like this, it only gets more toxic.

Force people to be competitive over resource nodes? This makes them cagey and anxious, it introduces toxic behaviours. Force those people to then work together in trials? This makes them even more toxic because they're already cagey of and distrustful about other players. If you make your game feel more social in a natural way, you don't need to force grouping in trials. Then you could have trials scale down to one player, but more people would be playing them in a group because everything would feel less forced.

I wish modern designers understood this.

I really think that you are overthinking resource nodes here. At least in ESO. If nodes were as rare in ESO as they are in GW2, for example, you would have a point, but again, in ESO nodes are plentiful and respawn very quickly. Just fish next to a node and you'll see.

Meanwhile, in BDO, even while nodes are plentiful, someone can kill me because I was harvesting *their* rocks. Or when I'm tending my garden (which is instanced). I think that would be considered anti-social. Having to turn left instead of right because someone else is sharing the same space is not.

I think ESO took a huge step forward in encouraging ad-hoc group play when they released Wrothgar and the daily quests for world bosses. It is a lot of fun running around with a group of people and sharing quests with them. I think ESO is a pretty sociable game, personally. I'm always running into helpful players and I try to be helpful myself. GW2 is pretty good too, but I don't think the nodes being instanced or not has anything to do with it. They are different games and each system works within itself. GW2 has instanced nodes, but nodes are much rarer. ESO has global nodes, but you are tripping over them.

Before Summerset released I decided I was going to get my Nightblade to finish Cadwell's Gold, which was AD for me. I had 3.5 zones to go through, and it took forever because between every 2 quests objectives there were half a dozen gathering nodes and I really can't pass them up!

MattT1988

Ask me about a year and a half ago I’d agree with this. Farming nodes shouldn’t be an intense competitive experience, not everything needs to be a competition.

BUT

I’ve come to realise that it really doesn’t matter as there are literally tonnes of nodes in the world that there really is enough to go around.

I’m happy to leave it as is.

Knowledge

Lylith wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

Axoinus wrote: »

Why stop with universal nodes? Just give everyone unlimited materials!

well what alot of people that are for some reason against this arent noticing are your not just in competition with other normal players. theres hundreds of bots per zone that farm as well, and now there are legit invisible people running around collecting mats as well and the only thing you can see is their pet rolling from node to node with them(also the one disguise isnt the cause either as there is complete and utterly nothing there at all not even a disguise animation). so honestly we need our own nodes now so legit players can get back into the market of mats and even for their own usage.

those invisible *** have been with us for years.

i used to think it was some kind of a glitch.

Yeah! It's really frustrating.

Armatesz

On xbox na we get bots that systematically go from node to node in zones picking up items. Their numbers have dwindled down but they exist. Seen some in craglorn and few in deshaan. With gamerscores of 5... so yeah. I can understand why some of us would like our own sort of universal nodes things. I say it is a hit and miss for both sides.

Knowledge

Armatesz wrote: »

On xbox na we get bots that systematically go from node to node in zones picking up items. Their numbers have dwindled down but they exist. Seen some in craglorn and few in deshaan. With gamerscores of 5... so yeah. I can understand why some of us would like our own sort of universal nodes things. I say it is a hit and miss for both sides.

How in the world do people have bots on a console?

Beardimus

Armatesz wrote: »

On xbox na we get bots that systematically go from node to node in zones picking up items. Their numbers have dwindled down but they exist. Seen some in craglorn and few in deshaan. With gamerscores of 5... so yeah. I can understand why some of us would like our own sort of universal nodes things. I say it is a hit and miss for both sides.

Would be cool to see some proof of those. Help console community to know what to look for. I'm u sure of half the things people thing are hax / bots really are on console

But universal nodes would be a BIGGER win for Bot trains anyhow. As the bots would get more success. If there are train just learn the route and go 1 step ahead. Done.

Enslaved

I would support upgrading the system we have now, considering nodes.
What I like about system is that we have plenty of nodes.
What can be introduced as interesting mechanics could be craftable mining picks/sickles.
Sickles would be used for gathering plants and light armor basede resources.
Picks would be used for mining ores for blacksmithing and dust for jewelrycrafting.
Harvesting nodes with these tools would give you +1/2 resource from each node and increase the chance of finding rare ingredients related to zone by a small portion.
These would not occupy carry slots we have, since slots for gathering would be separate and unlocked once you get to lvl 10 of both blacksmithing/jewelrycrafting for mining picks, and lvl 10 of clothier skill/alchemy for sickles.

Also, what would be nice to see at one point is that we get to have harvestable plants in our homes, that could be used once per week or so. This would not destroy economy yet would be a nice addition to housing.
One other thing related to crafting and houses - make it so that any food/drink/potion/poison we craft in our own houses can give us one extra serving. This would be a great initiative for ppl to have crafting stations in their homes. Also, there could be a small chance when improving our armors and weapons that we get to use one tempering less.

MeanWorldSyndrome

Great idea. I'd welcome that change very much.

Knowledge

MeanWorldSyndrome wrote: »

Great idea. I'd welcome that change very much.

Thanks

bellatrixed

Okay, let me try to break it down a little more...

Right now, basically the entire ESO economy is based on harvesting mats.

For some reason people think it is "greedy" for people to want to make gold off of stuff they put time and effort into acquiring. It's not. Being greedy would be trying to drive prices higher artificially, but for example the price of Tempering Alloys has remained around 6-8k the whole time I've been playing (only rarely dropping higher or lower) so I think it's pretty safe to say that is the standard/accepted price range for that item. It's what they are worth, why? Because it's what people are willing to pay on a consistent basis and the supply never rises significantly higher than the demand.

What exactly is the replacement going to be if those items suddenly plummet in value because nodes no longer despawn and everyone can loot them, flooding the market with thousands more mats?

How are people going to make gold?

What is your proposed solution if "everyone wins" and gets mats?

I don't raid or PVP, crafting and harvesting is my endgame. I'm not screwing people over, half of what I do is actually based around teaching guildies how to make gold, where to harvest, and crafting stuff for them--on top of using the money from my gathering & crafting to buy what I want. So... What are you proposing my endgame becomes if mat harvesting no longer gives me the gold to buy the things I want?

Seriously, this is such a strange argument. Here's a tip: Stop farming in Hew's Bane or the other "best" farming spots because they're flooded. Go to a lesser used zone nobody thinks to farm in and you'll be astounded by how many nodes fall in your lap. There are already enough nodes for everyone if you aren't trying to farm where everyone else is.

Minyassa

I would prefer they be instanced, and appear completely randomly in location without a reliable spawn point. I'd be totally happy with having to work harder to find them if the PvP element was gone.

mocap

no. It reminds me mushroom hunting in forest. Especially that hatred when you see another hunter. Kinda peaceful PvP This one knows some resource places for himself

Knowledge

bellatrixed wrote: »

Okay, let me try to break it down a little more...

Right now, basically the entire ESO economy is based on harvesting mats.

For some reason people think it is "greedy" for people to want to make gold off of stuff they put time and effort into acquiring. It's not. Being greedy would be trying to drive prices higher artificially, but for example the price of Tempering Alloys has remained around 6-8k the whole time I've been playing (only rarely dropping higher or lower) so I think it's pretty safe to say that is the standard/accepted price range for that item. It's what they are worth, why? Because it's what people are willing to pay on a consistent basis and the supply never rises significantly higher than the demand.

What exactly is the replacement going to be if those items suddenly plummet in value because nodes no longer despawn and everyone can loot them, flooding the market with thousands more mats?

How are people going to make gold?

What is your proposed solution if "everyone wins" and gets mats?

I don't raid or PVP, crafting and harvesting is my endgame. I'm not screwing people over, half of what I do is actually based around teaching guildies how to make gold, where to harvest, and crafting stuff for them--on top of using the money from my gathering & crafting to buy what I want. So... What are you proposing my endgame becomes if mat harvesting no longer gives me the gold to buy the things I want?

Seriously, this is such a strange argument. Here's a tip: Stop farming in Hew's Bane or the other "best" farming spots because they're flooded. Go to a lesser used zone nobody thinks to farm in and you'll be astounded by how many nodes fall in your lap. There are already enough nodes for everyone if you aren't trying to farm where everyone else is.

Let me allow you to see a different perspective.

By continuing to make nodes once per person it allows the individual mining them to make money on the mats while the person that didn't arrive fast enough would not benefit at all. The person harvesting the mat is now able to sell it for profit while the high ping player loses out completely.

Supporting this act or being for it is by definition "greed".

wenchmore420b14_ESO

No. Just no...
Can we please stop trying to change ESO to be like other games? It's not. Please go play those games.

As far as the "Invisible" players, another cause can be a "Phased" player who is actually in another instance of the zone.
At launch this was VERY common and could be the situation here.

DuskMarine

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

No. Just no...
Can we please stop trying to change ESO to be like other games? It's not. Please go play those games.

As far as the "Invisible" players, another cause can be a "Phased" player who is actually in another instance of the zone.
At launch this was VERY common and could be the situation here.

its not an instanced zone as craglorn doesnt have instanced zones where all the main farming routes are

Elsonso

Lylith wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

Axoinus wrote: »

Why stop with universal nodes? Just give everyone unlimited materials!

well what alot of people that are for some reason against this arent noticing are your not just in competition with other normal players. theres hundreds of bots per zone that farm as well, and now there are legit invisible people running around collecting mats as well and the only thing you can see is their pet rolling from node to node with them(also the one disguise isnt the cause either as there is complete and utterly nothing there at all not even a disguise animation). so honestly we need our own nodes now so legit players can get back into the market of mats and even for their own usage.

those invisible *** have been with us for years.

i used to think it was some kind of a glitch.

It probably is a bug or a glitch. Dollars to donuts, there is probably a normal Joe User there just minding his own business. People like to think that there is some nefarious evil-doer there, but the farming bots just run out in the open. They don't need to be invisible. They hide in plain sight and most people see them and have no idea what they are. ZOS isn't going to ban because they are a farming bot running from node to node in plain sight. They might ban someone who is cheating to hide, though.

Auros

Osteos wrote: »

There are plenty of nodes out there. Honestly sometimes I have to make a conscious decision to stop looting nodes or I will never get to where I am going!

This!

Sinolai

Only poblem with nodes and tresures are that you cant loot them if you are in combat.
It is almost every time that the 2nd person at the spot is going to get the node becouse first one is either in combat, is going to get hit by something before looting animation is done or is stuck in combat even after killing what ever was attacking him.
Let us die looting nodes if we want to!

Knowledge

Minyassa wrote: »

I would prefer they be instanced, and appear completely randomly in location without a reliable spawn point. I'd be totally happy with having to work harder to find them if the PvP element was gone.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, Minyassa. There's no need for other players to have to fight each other over nodes or get anxious and upset. It's a game for us to have fun and there is hard content for those that want to take things a step further like Vet Trials and competitive PVP.

Lets let gathering be fun and happy.

purple-magicb16_ESO

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Why would you want to tank the price of mats like Nirncrux? Farming is competitive, fun....why give everyone a participation trophy? Seriously, nodes spawn so frequently that there is no need at all for this. Someone is grabbing all the nodes in front of you? Turn the other direction and farm where they aren't.

I didn't realize nirn was still in demand. I haven't used nirn on my equipment for probably about 2 years now.

Easily_Lost

I know that I am coming a bit late to this topic. But I thought that resource nodes were for everyone.

Beardimus

Knowledge wrote: »

bellatrixed wrote: »

Okay, let me try to break it down a little more...

Right now, basically the entire ESO economy is based on harvesting mats.

For some reason people think it is "greedy" for people to want to make gold off of stuff they put time and effort into acquiring. It's not. Being greedy would be trying to drive prices higher artificially, but for example the price of Tempering Alloys has remained around 6-8k the whole time I've been playing (only rarely dropping higher or lower) so I think it's pretty safe to say that is the standard/accepted price range for that item. It's what they are worth, why? Because it's what people are willing to pay on a consistent basis and the supply never rises significantly higher than the demand.

What exactly is the replacement going to be if those items suddenly plummet in value because nodes no longer despawn and everyone can loot them, flooding the market with thousands more mats?

How are people going to make gold?

What is your proposed solution if "everyone wins" and gets mats?

I don't raid or PVP, crafting and harvesting is my endgame. I'm not screwing people over, half of what I do is actually based around teaching guildies how to make gold, where to harvest, and crafting stuff for them--on top of using the money from my gathering & crafting to buy what I want. So... What are you proposing my endgame becomes if mat harvesting no longer gives me the gold to buy the things I want?

Seriously, this is such a strange argument. Here's a tip: Stop farming in Hew's Bane or the other "best" farming spots because they're flooded. Go to a lesser used zone nobody thinks to farm in and you'll be astounded by how many nodes fall in your lap. There are already enough nodes for everyone if you aren't trying to farm where everyone else is.

Let me allow you to see a different perspective.

By continuing to make nodes once per person it allows the individual mining them to make money on the mats while the person that didn't arrive fast enough would not benefit at all. The person harvesting the mat is now able to sell it for profit while the high ping player loses out completely.

Supporting this act or being for it is by definition "greed".

Disagree. Everyone wanting more stuff is greed. OP wants more stuff, easier.

fojo82

I'd have no problem with that. It seems to be the norm for mmos now. Instanced nodes

Tabbycat

If I'm not mistaken, GW2's instanced nodes only lets you farm from each node once and then starts a timer where you can't farm it again. I'm pretty sure it's a 23 hour timer too. Which makes it an even bigger PITA to farm materials. So no, I wouldn't want instanced nodes if they were on a 23-24 hour timer. That would suck.

TheTwistedRune

I don't see any issue here. I like the fact that if I want to craft something I can go out and find the resources myself. I should not be forced to make somebody else money by buying matts from them as there are not enough resources to go around.

That said I am a solo player, so I am not inclined to care about some player's acquisition of in game wealth even if it is masquerading as "Good for the game's Economy".

Azurya

Knowledge wrote: »

In other titles like Guild Wars 2 the crafting nodes are shared similarly to how we share locked chests in dungeons. Would you support the nodes being adjusted to be universal and for everyone to loot?

no, and if you don´t like it, just stay at your guildwars, bb.

Zorgon_The_Revenged

Don't GW2 nodes just let you harvest them more than once then despawn? I honestly can't be bothered to reinstall it a 3rd time just to check.

Tabbycat wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken, GW2's instanced nodes only lets you farm from each node once and then starts a timer where you can't farm it again. I'm pretty sure it's a 23 hour timer too. Which makes it an even bigger PITA to farm materials. So no, I wouldn't want instanced nodes if they were on a 23-24 hour timer. That would suck.

Hmmm, I thought the timed rare nodes in FFXIV were a PITA, that sounds even worse.