Would you support resource nodes being for everyone?

TheInfernalRage

This sounds like one of those millennial feelings of entitlement. Players compete for resources if they want to. I've been playing and gathering resources but somehow I never had a problem. If someone gets there first, oh well I'll proceed to the next. There are so many of them anyway. Or I just check the guild bank or have a chat with other guild mates regarding the things I need.

Competing over resources is a form of socialization; thus, your reaction. If there's no competition, why bother expressing frustrations or opening up to others when you can feel contented in your little cocoon of satisfaction. You're probably frustrated over players that just watch you fight some mobs while they take the node that you're planning to take. That's part of the social interaction (there are indeed a-holes that do that, and there are a-holes that are like that IRL). I've been a victim of that for so many times, but I just move on.

Bottom line is: this all points to our respective frame of reference. You call it anti-social, I don't because that's part of being social--to feel the competition, to feel the frustration of meeting a-holes, to open up to others (like what you are doing now), etc. I'll agree with you if society is built for the total satisfaction of every individual. That is a good ideal, an ideal that I also believe too, but it remains an ideal.

Anti-social tendencies occur when one cannot accept that there is a kind of reality that is apart from one's own fantasy of what reality ought to be. Instead of argumentation, most anti-socials shield themselves: hating other players over competition is probably a good example. Socially healthy people can adapt because they've learned so much from social interaction that they can maneuver. If you go out and experience the world some more, you'll see that tribalism need not even be enforced. It's there almost naturally occurring, deal with it. I appreciate your very idealistic perspective, but you have to face reality somehow.

Aluneth

I would support a solution where everyone can use the node within 10 seconds of the first person using it. This means that if four people are around the node, they can all use it, but 10 seconds after the first use it'll despawn. I would not use this system for chests.

ResTandRespeC

First off let me say that I don't think instanced nodes/ nodes that can be shared are "needed" or better for everyone. There most definitely are plenty and drop rates seem to have some correlation to the number of people in a zone. That being said there is merit to the idea and although many have taken your description of causing antisocial behavior to be something of an extreme, I have most definitely seen minor antisocial behavior that could be contributed to this. The best example I can think of is the feeling of having someone steal your chest while your killing things around it. It for sure doesn't feel great and can most definitely lead to increases in aggressive attitudes.

The other very valid concern has to do with the market. While the changes to the nodes could probably be balanced in a way to limit this from happening, whether or not i trust Zeni to do this properly is another question entirely. All in all though i think its fone the way it is, as people will always find another way to drive each other bonkers.

Beodamacsa

Knowledge wrote: »

In other titles like Guild Wars 2 the crafting nodes are shared similarly to how we share locked chests in dungeons. Would you support the nodes being adjusted to be universal and for everyone to loot?

Yes totally, don't know why they made it that we cant as it creates animosity between players. I've had jerk offs follow me in craglorn and beat me to nodes asking in say chat if I'm mad? It really is one of my most hated parts of this game.

Grendel_at_ESO

Why? There's so many and they respawn so fast there's no need.

It was fun playing on an open PvP server in AoC and farming nodes though.

Knowledge

AuldWolf wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

why give everyone a participation trophy?

I'm genuinely concerned by the selfishness and antisocial thinking I see on these forums.

Why is it bad that everyone has fun? Why is it bad that everyone gets a chance? What do you have against that? Why are you specifically against people enjoying themselves? Why should it be only the person who gets there first, or the person who has the best addon to plot out the best route, that gets the resources?

It absolutely would be better if the nodes were instanced to the player, instead of globally, so that everyone could have their own nodes to loot. There's no good reason to not do that. It would reduce social anxiety, which would make the game more inviting to even more people. Nodes introduce conflict. I know I don't feel comfortable being around other people when I'm gathering so I try to find the most out of the place spot for resource gathering. It nurtures a paranoia that blossoms into an actively antisocial gaming experience.

Back in Ultima Online, everyone could loot nodes. So you could go gathering with other people, imagine that. You could actually hang around with gatherers and chat it up. It was lovely. Then... I don't know if it was Everquest or FF XI that started it, but I first saw it in FF XI. My friends and I noticed everyone diving on nodes and being competitive. Suddenly, the welcoming, lovely experience of gathering became something more akin to League of Legends with people being hostile to one another, distrusting one another.

That's fine, if you're antisocial.

I'm not.

I'm asocial sometimes, which means I can be nervous around people and I can occasionally be shy and choose not to interact, but sometimes I do like to interact. ESO doesn't give me (or others) that opportunity. It creates a hostile environment of competition. That's never a good thing in PvE. Perhaps nodes in PvP should be like that, but not PvE.

In my opinion, ESO would be more welcoming to more kinds of people if gathering was fun. People who actually play crafting games would get involved, then, if they felt like they could gather in a social way.

Which is better:

a.) You can gather with other people. If you meet someone on the road you can actually hang out with them. You can invite them to come along with you, you can show them the best spots, and you can share with them your route for the best mining results. You can talk about different things, even roleplay, whilst gathering nodes. You can feel comfortable and at ease with other players around, fostering the more social experience ZOS seems to want.

b.) You can have harvesting be a paranoid, antisocial experience where you have to hide from other players because there are only so many resources to go around. This artificial scarcity creates a sort of enforced tribalism where you have players being actively hostile in order to guard what they believe is theirs, you have people trying to avoid one another and getting very anxious and aggressive when others are around as everyone struggles for the same resources.

Which sounds better to you? I pick option a.

These are very important points that I wish I had included in my post. Thanks for sharing them and it sheds more light on this proposal and issue as a whole. The current system is anti-social, single-player encouraging, and conflict promoting. Something should change.

Elsonso

Knowledge wrote: »

These are very important points that I wish I had included in my post. Thanks for sharing them and it sheds more light on this proposal and issue as a whole. The current system is anti-social, single-player encouraging, and conflict promoting. Something should change.

It is sort of interesting, because when I was reading the post you quoted, I wasn't sure at the start whether they were for or against this idea. I had to get to the third paragraph before I knew which side they were on.

See, I think that the terms selfish and anti-social apply to both sides of this debate. I think that "having fun" can apply to both sides. I think that instancing the resource nodes can be described as "single-player". In all of this, "conflict promoting" is pretty much the first thing I read that favors instanced resource nodes.

In the end this comes down to subjective player preferences, and that means that ZOS gets to decide.

VaranisArano

I'm very skeptical of a solution that involves fundamentally changing how nodes and farming work because someone faced a little competition for resource nodes.

In the entire world of Tamriel, there are plenty of nodes. The solution, just like for emptying chests, is for people not to be jerks about it.

Elsonso

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm very skeptical of a solution that involves fundamentally changing how nodes and farming work because someone faced a little competition for resource nodes.

It would be a fundamental change. Instanced nodes means that there needs to be a lot fewer of them. I mean thousands fewer. (edit: all nodes across all zones) The game is designed to provide resources at a certain level, and an instance resource system would have to match that, as best possible. That means that some people would get more resources, others would get less. Fewer nodes means they are more spread out and less convenient. The casual player might not pass by each of the available nodes, meaning that unless they go farming, they would get fewer resources.

Knowledge

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm very skeptical of a solution that involves fundamentally changing how nodes and farming work because someone faced a little competition for resource nodes.

In the entire world of Tamriel, there are plenty of nodes. The solution, just like for emptying chests, is for people not to be jerks about it.

I believe true competition would only be fair if open world PVP was allowed.

For example, if you were farming nodes you would have to "flag" for PVP and then you could be competed against truly. You would have to really best the other person to get the node.

VaranisArano

Knowledge wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm very skeptical of a solution that involves fundamentally changing how nodes and farming work because someone faced a little competition for resource nodes.

In the entire world of Tamriel, there are plenty of nodes. The solution, just like for emptying chests, is for people not to be jerks about it.

I believe true competition would only be fair if open world PVP was allowed.

For example, if you were farming nodes you would have to "flag" for PVP and then you could be competed against truly. You would have to really best the other person to get the node.

I repeat, I'm very skeptical of solutions that involve fundamentally changing the game world just because someone faced a little competition for nodes.

Open world flagging for PVP just to farm nodes is an even bigger change.

Most peeved farmers settle for a mudball or a hate tell. If they whisper me, I share the speed gear Im running and move on with my farming route.

Rawkan

I don't really see why it's needed in this game. There's plenty of nodes pretty much everywhere. Yes, there will be some competition in the most popular zones, but you're not forced to farm there. The only thing I could think of would be having the chests instanced, but then again there's so many of them that they would have to remove a lot to balance it.

lygerseye

Knowledge wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm very skeptical of a solution that involves fundamentally changing how nodes and farming work because someone faced a little competition for resource nodes.

In the entire world of Tamriel, there are plenty of nodes. The solution, just like for emptying chests, is for people not to be jerks about it.

I believe true competition would only be fair if open world PVP was allowed.

For example, if you were farming nodes you would have to "flag" for PVP and then you could be competed against truly. You would have to really best the other person to get the node.

So two runners in a race to a finish line are not in a fair competition? To determine the outcome of the foot race fairly, they must first engage in a death match?

My crafting character is built for speed and stealth specifically for farming materials... How is it fair that I’d likely lose out on a crafting node to someone built with the latest PVP meta who can’t even craft a 6-trait set?

Zorgon_The_Revenged

Getting PK'd for a "Ta" and a "Meip", what is the world coming to?

Cpt_Teemo

Yes as long as they have a longer respawn timer like FF14

Edziu

I will be up for this but we have few problmes and changes to do so it could work

in gw2 we have much muvh less nodes to gather so this is point why they working like work in gw2, we can say nodes are so rare here while in eso we can see on every step someking of node - this is main problem and thing needed to change in ESO if will be going for this

and 2nd and I think the biggest problem are bots
my friend some time ago noticed there are also bots for gathering nodes..I also once noticed one on map..island for beggining our adventure in game
so if everyone could gather same node then it will be bigger profit for bots which will b eendoing craftmast will be even more cheaper until worthless selling it to players becasue vendor will give you more gold...

Bbsample197

The only reason why people are against this is because it will ruin their capitalization on resources, believe me ive been in a lot of guilds who gets mad if the prices of flowers and motifs goes down because the majority of the playerbase can get it

to anyone whos against it, i cannot see any downside care to enlightened me what will be the negative effect of sharing nodes? and saying that theres already alot of nodes in the game is not a great argument some player could only play during peak times due to real life reasons, what are you gonna do about places like craglorns where its the only main place to get nirn during peak times? that place is a barren wasteland during those times

Karm1cOne

This would only increase the bots you would see. They would just program a route and set it to go without the downtime of skipping empty nodes. And prices would nosedive

Bbsample197

Karm1cOne wrote: »

This would only increase the bots you would see. They would just program a route and set it to go without the downtime of skipping empty nodes. And prices would nosedive

theyre already doing that as we speak, another solution for that is make a crown store to gold exchange but thats another discussion, as for the prices going down there are alot of ways to earn money than just picking flowers

Pwnyridah

Move along. Get back to work. Move faster.

lygerseye

Bbsample197 wrote: »

The only reason why people are against this is because it will ruin their capitalization on resources, believe me ive been in a lot of guilds who gets mad if the prices of flowers and motifs goes down because the majority of the playerbase can get it

to anyone whos against it, i cannot see any downside care to enlightened me what will be the negative effect of sharing nodes? and saying that theres already alot of nodes in the game is not a great argument some player could only play during peak times due to real life reasons, what are you gonna do about places like craglorns where its the only main place to get nirn during peak times? that place is a barren wasteland during those times

I rarely sell my mats, so I’m not really concerned about the market prices. What I do enjoy is the competition. While most of my farming is done in PVE zones, I include other players as a component of the “E” in PVE. No, there’s no combat involved, but I do enjoy the race. I’m not doing it to be “rude” or ruin some else’s day. Sometimes I get there first, sometimes someone else does. There are plenty of other nodes spawning all over Tamriel. I can’t help if others find offense in my reaching the node .5 seconds before they do. I certainly don’t hold it against them for being faster than me. It’s just more motivation for me to perform better.

Also, instanced (aka, shared) nodes strike me as something that would make an MMO feel more like a single-player game.

Knowledge

Bbsample197 wrote: »

The only reason why people are against this is because it will ruin their capitalization on resources, believe me ive been in a lot of guilds who gets mad if the prices of flowers and motifs goes down because the majority of the playerbase can get it

to anyone whos against it, i cannot see any downside care to enlightened me what will be the negative effect of sharing nodes? and saying that theres already alot of nodes in the game is not a great argument some player could only play during peak times due to real life reasons, what are you gonna do about places like craglorns where its the only main place to get nirn during peak times? that place is a barren wasteland during those times

The market will adjust its self anyway. Currency would likely deflate and it would all be relative.

Knowledge

Karm1cOne wrote: »

This would only increase the bots you would see. They would just program a route and set it to go without the downtime of skipping empty nodes. And prices would nosedive

Bots will always be a problem in every MMO. However, ZeniMax controls the bots in ESO quite well compared to other titles. Think about games like ArcheAge that are filled with bots.

Knowledge

lygerseye wrote: »

Bbsample197 wrote: »

The only reason why people are against this is because it will ruin their capitalization on resources, believe me ive been in a lot of guilds who gets mad if the prices of flowers and motifs goes down because the majority of the playerbase can get it

to anyone whos against it, i cannot see any downside care to enlightened me what will be the negative effect of sharing nodes? and saying that theres already alot of nodes in the game is not a great argument some player could only play during peak times due to real life reasons, what are you gonna do about places like craglorns where its the only main place to get nirn during peak times? that place is a barren wasteland during those times

I rarely sell my mats, so I’m not really concerned about the market prices. What I do enjoy is the competition. While most of my farming is done in PVE zones, I include other players as a component of the “E” in PVE. No, there’s no combat involved, but I do enjoy the race. I’m not doing it to be “rude” or ruin some else’s day. Sometimes I get there first, sometimes someone else does. There are plenty of other nodes spawning all over Tamriel. I can’t help if others find offense in my reaching the node .5 seconds before they do. I certainly don’t hold it against them for being faster than me. It’s just more motivation for me to perform better.

Also, instanced (aka, shared) nodes strike me as something that would make an MMO feel more like a single-player game.

Why would you enjoy hurting someones feelings or stressing someone out that may only have an hour or two to play due to work obligations or children.

Bbsample197

lygerseye wrote: »

Bbsample197 wrote: »

The only reason why people are against this is because it will ruin their capitalization on resources, believe me ive been in a lot of guilds who gets mad if the prices of flowers and motifs goes down because the majority of the playerbase can get it

to anyone whos against it, i cannot see any downside care to enlightened me what will be the negative effect of sharing nodes? and saying that theres already alot of nodes in the game is not a great argument some player could only play during peak times due to real life reasons, what are you gonna do about places like craglorns where its the only main place to get nirn during peak times? that place is a barren wasteland during those times

I rarely sell my mats, so I’m not really concerned about the market prices. What I do enjoy is the competition. While most of my farming is done in PVE zones, I include other players as a component of the “E” in PVE. No, there’s no combat involved, but I do enjoy the race. I’m not doing it to be “rude” or ruin some else’s day. Sometimes I get there first, sometimes someone else does. There are plenty of other nodes spawning all over Tamriel. I can’t help if others find offense in my reaching the node .5 seconds before they do. I certainly don’t hold it against them for being faster than me. It’s just more motivation for me to perform better.

Also, instanced (aka, shared) nodes strike me as something that would make an MMO feel more like a single-player game.

Alot of MMO like FF14 has an instanced nodes and they feel more MMO-like than this game, also racing on picking flowers is NOT a competition its just a matter of whos the luckiest or has the lowest ping between you and someone (I live in the other side of the world where even if i get to the node 3 seconds before someone else, theyll always be the one who will get it no matter how early i got there) to get it its not about skills, you cant call something worth competing if it does not involve any skill or effort to it

Scorpiodisc

Knowledge wrote: »

In other titles like Guild Wars 2 the crafting nodes are shared similarly to how we share locked chests in dungeons. Would you support the nodes being adjusted to be universal and for everyone to loot?

No, because it is totally a non-issue. It would add nothing to the game.

lihentian

yes that would be nice.. it will also encourage group play.

JobooAGS

No

lygerseye

Bbsample197 wrote: »

lygerseye wrote: »

Bbsample197 wrote: »

The only reason why people are against this is because it will ruin their capitalization on resources, believe me ive been in a lot of guilds who gets mad if the prices of flowers and motifs goes down because the majority of the playerbase can get it

to anyone whos against it, i cannot see any downside care to enlightened me what will be the negative effect of sharing nodes? and saying that theres already alot of nodes in the game is not a great argument some player could only play during peak times due to real life reasons, what are you gonna do about places like craglorns where its the only main place to get nirn during peak times? that place is a barren wasteland during those times

I rarely sell my mats, so I’m not really concerned about the market prices. What I do enjoy is the competition. While most of my farming is done in PVE zones, I include other players as a component of the “E” in PVE. No, there’s no combat involved, but I do enjoy the race. I’m not doing it to be “rude” or ruin some else’s day. Sometimes I get there first, sometimes someone else does. There are plenty of other nodes spawning all over Tamriel. I can’t help if others find offense in my reaching the node .5 seconds before they do. I certainly don’t hold it against them for being faster than me. It’s just more motivation for me to perform better.

Also, instanced (aka, shared) nodes strike me as something that would make an MMO feel more like a single-player game.

Alot of MMO like FF14 has an instanced nodes and they feel more MMO-like than this game, also racing on picking flowers is NOT a competition its just a matter of whos the luckiest or has the lowest ping between you and someone (I live in the other side of the world where even if i get to the node 3 seconds before someone else, theyll always be the one who will get it no matter how early i got there) to get it its not about skills, you cant call something worth competing if it does not involve any skill or effort to it

Your ping should not determine how I get to play the game. I genuinely feel badly for your gaming experience, but I play the game for the competition, even if you feel it’s not a competition. I can’t help that you feel the way that you do. Maybe you can convince ZOS to change the rules for you, but given the list of bigger issues this game has, you may be waiting a while.

In the meantime, I gotta go level my Jewelry Crafting! <whoosh!>

Bbsample197

lygerseye wrote: »

Bbsample197 wrote: »

lygerseye wrote: »

Bbsample197 wrote: »

The only reason why people are against this is because it will ruin their capitalization on resources, believe me ive been in a lot of guilds who gets mad if the prices of flowers and motifs goes down because the majority of the playerbase can get it

to anyone whos against it, i cannot see any downside care to enlightened me what will be the negative effect of sharing nodes? and saying that theres already alot of nodes in the game is not a great argument some player could only play during peak times due to real life reasons, what are you gonna do about places like craglorns where its the only main place to get nirn during peak times? that place is a barren wasteland during those times

I rarely sell my mats, so I’m not really concerned about the market prices. What I do enjoy is the competition. While most of my farming is done in PVE zones, I include other players as a component of the “E” in PVE. No, there’s no combat involved, but I do enjoy the race. I’m not doing it to be “rude” or ruin some else’s day. Sometimes I get there first, sometimes someone else does. There are plenty of other nodes spawning all over Tamriel. I can’t help if others find offense in my reaching the node .5 seconds before they do. I certainly don’t hold it against them for being faster than me. It’s just more motivation for me to perform better.

Also, instanced (aka, shared) nodes strike me as something that would make an MMO feel more like a single-player game.

Alot of MMO like FF14 has an instanced nodes and they feel more MMO-like than this game, also racing on picking flowers is NOT a competition its just a matter of whos the luckiest or has the lowest ping between you and someone (I live in the other side of the world where even if i get to the node 3 seconds before someone else, theyll always be the one who will get it no matter how early i got there) to get it its not about skills, you cant call something worth competing if it does not involve any skill or effort to it

Your ping should not determine how I get to play the game. I genuinely feel badly for your gaming experience, but I play the game for the competition, even if you feel it’s not a competition. I can’t help that you feel the way that you do. Maybe you can convince ZOS to change the rules for you, but given the list of bigger issues this game has, you may be waiting a while.

In the meantime, I gotta go level my Jewelry Crafting! <whoosh!>

Im not feeling bad about my ping and nowhere near begging for it to be fixed but some player who could only logged in during peak time cant farmed craglorn isnt not, what makes you say to those guys who cant even get the things that they want unless they want to buy it for thousands of gold on which majority of the players couldnt even earned 20k a day, if you consider a skilless content as a competition i feel bad for you