Cancel animation canceling

phaneub17_ESO · May 2018

It makes up for not having the traditional auto-attack your characters would normally do between spells and abilities, and there is a lot of fluff in ESO that you really don't need to wait on to finish before making your next move. While it wasn't intentional it's not going away, they accepted it as part of the game instead of just constant spamming of one ability after another until you run out of resources then you're left with the option of spamming light attacks and heavy attacks until you regained enough resources to do it again and repeat the process.

I think animation canceling creates more of a flow between spells, you can still spam abilities its just not nearly as effective as throwing a normal attack in between now and again.

idk · May 2018

Tyhar wrote: »

I don't understand why so many people keep asking for the wrong thing. Animation cancelling is fine and needs to stay. What people should be asking for is for the skill not to register if it is animation cancelled.

The skill does cancel if the required time does not elapse before AC is performed. The animation for most skills are longer than the globally required time and even more so for activated abilities.

It really is that simple.

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

Cladius30 wrote: »

Or even end game vet dungeons.. I can't even play these now with out people complaining that I'm not doing the dumb stuff to get the extra DPS? Do you get kicked or hassled for not doing it in pve?

People can tell if your DPS is junk using Combat Metrics. If you're not pulling your weight, you need to improve.

If I'm pulling 70-80% of team DPS according to CM, then that means you need to step up. If you don't, then don't be surprised if you get vote kicked.

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

I don't care for AC one way or another, but why don't players just spend a few hours learning it rather than making daily threads on the topic?

Linaleah · May 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I don't care for AC one way or another, but why don't players just spend a few hours learning it rather than making daily threads on the topic?

becasue maybe. just maybe. we have tried and can't do it? its a concept. not everyone can do everything. not everyone has reflexes. not every can develop needed muscle memory. not every is exactly the same with exact same ability ceiling.

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

Linaleah wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I don't care for AC one way or another, but why don't players just spend a few hours learning it rather than making daily threads on the topic?

becasue maybe. just maybe. we have tried and can't do it? its a concept. not everyone can do everything. not everyone has reflexes. not every can develop needed muscle memory. not every is exactly the same with exact same ability ceiling.

If that's the case, then you don't need it. You can still complete all content without it.

That's like asking Valve to artificially slow down everyone's reflexes in CS:GO so the slower players can compete with the more skilled ones.

idk · May 2018

Linaleah wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I don't care for AC one way or another, but why don't players just spend a few hours learning it rather than making daily threads on the topic?

becasue maybe. just maybe. we have tried and can't do it? its a concept. not everyone can do everything. not everyone has reflexes. not every can develop needed muscle memory. not every is exactly the same with exact same ability ceiling.

Most players are capable of weaving basic attacks leading into their skills. It really comes down to what a players goals are. I do not judge those who do not have the desire as the game has a wide latitude of activities and not everyone is into everything.

As stated before, groups do not kick players because they do not AC. Well, not decent and half decent groups. Most in PvE do not AC actual skills anyhow.

Seri · May 2018

Tyhar wrote: »

I don't understand why so many people keep asking for the wrong thing. Animation cancelling is fine and needs to stay. What people should be asking for is for the skill not to register if it is animation cancelled.

Skills mostly cancel but light attacks don't. Although a block or bash cancel of a 2H executioner where you die while they still have their weapon over the back shoulder still looks odd

Linaleah · May 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I don't care for AC one way or another, but why don't players just spend a few hours learning it rather than making daily threads on the topic?

becasue maybe. just maybe. we have tried and can't do it? its a concept. not everyone can do everything. not everyone has reflexes. not every can develop needed muscle memory. not every is exactly the same with exact same ability ceiling.

If that's the case, then you don't need it. You can still complete all content without it.

That's like asking Valve to artificially slow down everyone's reflexes in CS:GO so the slower players can compete with the more skilled ones.

the point is - I'm so very tired of players going "why don't you just spend a few hours learning how to do it?"

and a bit of wistful thinking on occasion. other games either don't have this, or have basic attacks firing off automatically.

Nyladreas · May 2018

Hasn't Animation Cancelling in general just received a buff with Summerset and enforced more light attack weaving?

I'm sorry to tell you it's probably here to stay.

idk · May 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

Hasn't Animation Cancelling in general just received a buff with Summerset and enforced more light attack weaving?

I'm sorry to tell you it's probably here to stay.

Yes, as it did last year as well.

Kalante · May 2018

If you have no reflexes then animation cancelling is not the problem, it's you. because animation cancelling has nothing to do with how good your reflexes are but more about your muscle memory. I can animation cancel without looking at the monitor because muscle memory does all the work. Reflexes are another thing. You could have the best reflexes in the world i don't care but if you don't practice the necessary routine to aid those reflexes you will die simple as that.

AC is what differentiates the bad from the moderate and the good. It is a very special mechanic in many different games for those who want to strive to be above the rest. If everybody was the same it would still not matter because there are always ways good players find to be competitive, then there would not be any excuses for bad players. Then what?

Koensol · May 2018

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

I don't know why the hell people still try to pretend that animation cancelling is like advanced physics or something. It's two button presses every 1 second. You don't need to be a super human to do it.

Because like all things it can get really advanced.

Such as, switching bars to cancel endless hail or rearming trap, shield canceling dawnbreaker, and consistently weaving through all of the process. Learning to apply buffs/debuffs optimally, just optimal rotation in general.

In my experience on templar and sorc animation canceling and rotation optimization makes a 20-30k difference.

This is so wrong. Block cancelling gives you nothing in terms of dps or speed. NOTHING, ZILCH, NADA. It is actually quote dumb to do, because you miss one regen tick for blocking. The only 'good' thing it gives you is being able to block earlier after the ability.
Also swapcancelling gives you nothing. The only thing that does is eliminating the time you have to wait for barswapping after the animation is finished so you cast your next skill after exactly 1 second. But animation cancelling is overall completely useless in increasing your dps. It ia light attack weaving where it is at.

Betsararie · May 2018

Animation cancelling is one of the most fundamental aspects to the combat system in this game.

Besides, we all know this post is code for "Me no can do animation cancel", so I would recommend to start practicing your rotation.

TelvanniWizard · May 2018

It´s a glitch. Should be fixed.

MartiniDaniels · May 2018

Of course AC is a bad thing for games with fluid, precise and engaging combat system.
But for games with mediocre combat (like ESO and majority of others) it helps a lot to make combat more intuative and natural to every player. Even people who want to remove it, use AC constantly within their internal timings and if ESO will force to wait for end of every animation, it’ll be very boring and frustrating experience, believe me.

amir412 · May 2018

The day they will remove it, is the day ESO will lose all it's top tier pvpers.

Slack · May 2018

Cladius30 wrote: »

Or even end game vet dungeons.. I can't even play these now with out people complaining that I'm not doing the dumb stuff to get the extra DPS? Do you get kicked or hassled for not doing it in pve?

You surely didn't get kicked because you don't do animation canceling. Even without it your dps should be high enough for vet dungeons, if you know what you are doing

WildRaptorX · May 2018

It’s extremely bad on console. The weaves (a whole rotation) can be done in 3 seconds without you even being able to see a single full and proper animation. I hate it but I’m going to have to learn. I just hope they add a tiny cooldown or something so I can actually see what I’m dealing with

idk · May 2018

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

It´s a glitch. Should be fixed.

@TelvanniWizard How does something a glitch when the devs have publicly stated is an official part of the game.

It is not gaming the system. It is merely animations are longer than the time required for the skill. Nothing more and perfectly legit.

Beardimus · May 2018

I hate it too OP. I can do it, and it has led to periods of me hating on the game. Dull hours in front of the target dummy to hit decent DPS to be able to play with certain groups etc etc

It feels broken, it's maddening that it creates such an increase in damage (I'm guessing bigger relevance post summerset) however its been said countless times before and its hear to stay. I also think at this stage it could be clunky for them to remove it. It would feel awful to be trapped in every animation especially long cast times.

I think some actions would always need to cancel. But the impact to DPS (ive seen 10k DPS between a newer player and good player with exact same setup) should be reduced. Won't happen tho

Vaoh · May 2018

It didn’t look nearly as bad before the Dark Brotherhood Animation Changes.

Everything looked smooth before that patch.

Since then high DPS -> character seizure

Septimus_Magna · May 2018

Yeah, bloody AC cheaters.

They press skill>la before the animation has finished, this really gets under my skin.
Or even worse the press skill>weapon swap, I mean come on this isnt fair at all...
One time I was fighting someone in Cyrodiil and he pressed skill>block so I didnt see the entire animation of his skill, pff gets me so mad! I lost that fight but not because of my skill but because he was obviously cheating.

Could everyone just stop cheating and wait for the entire animation to finish before doing something like light attack, weapon swap or block.

I hope you can tell I am being sarcastic, this is such a pointless discussion led by people with zero understanding of the combat mechanics.

pattyLtd · May 2018

I dont like it and tone honest im not sure if i always do it good but i try.
However thinking how it would be if it wasnt possible makes me wonder what would be worse.
I do agree that it looks seizure like and feels like a bug but unfortunately that is just part of the ESO experience

I will be honest with all the light effects and *** going on on screen sometimes i still accidently hard cast a frag lol. Im glad i can cancel those (just an example).

jcm2606 · May 2018

As already said multiple times, the only forms of animation cancelling that you really use in PVE is weaving & bar swap cancelling, and even then bar swap cancelling it really just out of convenience, not necessity. Weaving is now somewhat necessary for light attack rotations; now Zenimax has buffed light attacks, it isn't uncommon to find light attacks to be one of your biggest sources of damage in a full rotation. Especially on classes like Magicka Nightblade, as on my Mag NB light attacks made up 30% of my DPS alone, with me weaving light attacks with as many skills as possible.

But here's the thing, if you genuinely cannot weave light attacks, that's fine. I'll let you in on a secret: the average player does not weave every single skill, because it isn't necessary to pull adequate DPS. Within my stam sorc rotation, I skip weaving both Endless Hail & Caltrops, however I weave everything else. And even then, I could probably stop weaving all but 3 of my abilities (I'm weaving probably 6 abilities currently), and still pull adequate DPS. The only class where weaving every single skill is more or less essential to good DPS is Nightblade, because of the Spectral Bow proc, and how weaving helps tremendously with the uptime. The other 4 classes, weaving just helps your DPS along, but it isn't necessary.

So if you genuinely cannot weave light attacks, I'd suggest one of two things. Experiment with which skills you find comfortable weaving: you might find that you hate weaving on all skills except Rending Slashes. Good, see if you can get used to weaving that, and work from there. And if you still can't weave comfortably, switch to a heavy attack rotation. Heavy attack rotations work well on Stam DK & Mag Sorc, especially Mag Sorc, and require little to no weaving. Easy 20-30k DPS right there.

As a few people have explained, there is a reason why animation cancelling is a thing. It is a byproduct of an intentional choice Zenimax made when designing the combat system for ESO; they decided to have actions operate off of a priority system, with a global cooldown (GCD) of ~0.9 seconds in place, so that if a player has to block an incoming one-shot mechanic, they can, regardless of whether they are in the middle of using a different action or not. Actions with higher priorities take precedence over actions with lower priorities, assuming the GCD is not in effect. This is what allows animation cancelling to be a thing, and it was and is an intentional design decision by Zenimax.

It is here to stay, whether you like it or not. But I can guarantee that if it were removed, you would absolutely loathe the game's combat system.

Darkenarlol · May 2018

With certain builds you can easily pull 30+ without ANY light attacks (only heavy attack rotation)

It is enough to complete any vet dlc HM, flawless vMA etc

So most likely it was never about AC or *refusing* to weave but a general lazyness in case of l2P/ don't-care-about-mechanics

All those whine treads sonds like *mommy i love soccer but running sucks! It is stuped feature witch should go! And mommy

those other players have kicked me from their team cuz i like to stand in one place!*

Btw even in this case you can sign up as goalkeeper =D

Anyway whining threads are never created to become better or learn something or get some usefull advices.

They are created just to draw some portion of attention and get a bunch of *agrees* from guys who are bad as you are

so you are not gonna feel loneliness in that deep grim and dark corner with a neon sign *losers sits here* over it.

_Ahala_ · May 2018

Many animations should to be sped up to fit the fast pase this game has adopted... For example look at magden... it has a looooooong animation on its “instant cast” pollen ability (and many other abilities) that causes it to fail if the caster is stunned during the “instant cast” animation

And no... light attack weaving is not an exploit, it adds some fun and skill to the combat system and it’s recommended in the leveling advisor for crying out loud... the annoying animation stutters and freezes however could and should be fixed with some animation changes

mocap · May 2018

hey OP, i'am with you but... Did you ever try to cancel animation? Simple canceling is realy easy. You just press Light attack then immediately cast damage skill, repeat. That's it. Congratulations, you got hidden bonus "+100% to DPS" (or even more).

swippy · May 2018

Cladius30 wrote: »

Learning to do this is like having to cut my grass... This is not fun to me nor is cutting my grass.. I feel like I'm forced to learn this or my options of enjoying this game are limited. I love this game and everything it offers aside from this forced grass cutting.

if i wasn't into cutting grass i wouldn't sign myself up for a job as a lawnmower.

the overwhelming majority of the content in this game can be done without having to learn any "skillful" techniques, and then if you want to be a contributing member of a team at a higher level then you can choose to perform skillfully. feel free to make an effort, if you're so inclined.

ynimma · May 2018

One reason chess have been such a solid and fantastic game for long centuries that every step in the encounter has a place in the game and also accountable. I wonder how quickly chess could have been ditched if there was animation cancelling in it: like making a move with one figure and by the time it reaches its new position you put another figure somewhere else too.
Chess didn't need weekly maintenance as well, just sayin'

So I agree, animation cancelling is a glitch cripples the game. No matter how skillful someone can be using it, no matter if it's called "feature" by now in lack of capability dealing with it, it remains a glitch and I'd be happy to see it go.