Everything needed to know about Bow/Bow in PVE - Updated for Stonethorn

SodanTok · May 2018

exiars10 wrote: »

SodanTok

About DK gear
I don‘t have gear as I typed as I don‘t know what to do... I defenitely want to go poison route for RP reasons and I‘m aware it‘s not fully optimal – it is if there are more stamina DKs if I understood correctly (basically trial situation). I‘ll reorganize my skill bars to use all 6 poison abilities. I read older messages like this one:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4888583/#Comment_4888583
So basically:
2x Spawn of Mephala* + 5x Morag Tong + 5x Hunding‘s Rage / something else ???

Is this all right?

*I plan to use 1x Kra‘gh, but I‘ll farm Mephala so it‘s on stand by and ready to use once Summerset patch hits.
I don‘t have a problem playing DK in melee range as I already do that with Nighblade.

About Warden gear
Is Bone Pirate‘s Tatters ok for PvE? I farmed it last night as Warden tank as was pledge but can‘t get necklace for life (got rings) and I constantly get armor with impenetrable trait (only one divine!) so basically I have set for PvP… which is great as I have to go to Cyrodiil for Horn, Vigor and Caltrops but still I deconned so much impenetrable . Even more absurd are weapons as I only get various staves! WT…?!
As I typed, I planned to use Unfathomable Darkness cause it‘s animal based process set but crit is going to be removed …

1x Kra‘gh + 5x Bone Pirate‘s Tatters ??? + Spriggan‘s Thorns / something else???

Once Summerset hits, is it ok to use 1x Kra‘gh helmet + 1x Velidreth or Molag Kena shoulder?

As always, I don't play trials so no trial gear. Maybe one day ...

As for RPing poison, mephala morag tong is fine. Hunding so you have good damage even on other abilities to top it off ideal.

As for bone pirate, not rly. For one it doesnt buff damage currently, but even if it did, its not very good. Its PVP set mostly. Would use hunding over it definitely. With Summerset you have no reason use 1+1 because you can use full monster set stormfist or veli.

exiars10 · May 2018

All right, DK gear situation solved. As long as I can do 20k+ damage, I am fine

.

For Warden...
I saw in Alcast Warden Cliffracer build that he recommended Bone Pirate and it's easy to farm so I asked...

I don't like Stormfist effect and getting Velidreth... I hate CoS even on normal and there is no way I'm going to enter in veteran

... That's why I asked about monster situation.

Is something like this ok?
5x Hunding's Rage + 4x Unfathomable Darkness + 3x Agility which I'll maybe use on Nighblade once Summerset goes live...

Or good ol' combo (same for Nightblade as my second option):
5x Hunding's Rage + 5x Spriggan‘s Thorns + Monster combo

When I look at monster sets for ranged stamina selection pool is bloody joke

.

P. S.
And thank you very much for testing on PTS (and kudos to other bow/bow users who did the same). I don't have time to download and play it... I'll wait official launch for the new possible skills.

So bow/bow is getting buffed but DW/bow is still king.

SodanTok · May 2018

exiars10 wrote: »

All right, DK gear situation solved. As long as I can do 20k+ damage, I am fine .

For Warden...
I saw in Alcast Warden Cliffracer build that he recommended Bone Pirate and it's easy to farm so I asked...

I don't like Stormfist effect and getting Velidreth... I hate CoS even on normal and there is no way I'm going to enter in veteran ... That's why I asked about monster situation.

Is something like this ok?
5x Hunding's Rage + 4x Unfathomable Darkness + 3x Agility which I'll maybe use on Nighblade once Summerset goes live...

Or good ol' combo (same for Nightblade as my second option):
5x Hunding's Rage + 5x Spriggan‘s Thorns + Monster combo

When I look at monster sets for ranged stamina selection pool is bloody joke .

P. S.
And thank you very much for testing on PTS (and kudos to other bow/bow users who did the same). I don't have time to download and play it... I'll wait official launch for the new possible skills.

So bow/bow is getting buffed but DW/bow is still king.

Well bone pirate is bugged now so its bad, but in general its worse than hunding by lot. I would definitely next patch go monster set combo and only stormfist and velidreth offer good choices (but mephala is usable too). You can use selistrix too for solo

exiars10 · May 2018

I didn't know Bone Pirate is bugged

and once you typed I checked and see there are several threads about it... Yay. Deconned last night and will use Marksman's Crest in PvP.

I overlooked Sellistrix but I like it on paper. And farming is relatively easy. Yesterday was Arx Corinium's pledge as you know and this is what I got in second run for my Warden

:

I told group I needed medium Sellistrix (other 3 got AC as random veteran premium daily) and they typed they'll give me if get. But I guess opening chest for shoulder is going to be nightmare...
And look at group DPS - remove my and healer one and there you have your barely above average DDs @ ~15-17k DPS.

So for Nightblade and Warden once Summerset goes live:
2x Sellistrix + 5x Hunding's Rage + 5x Spriggan‘s Thorns

Now just to farm Spriggan‘s Thorns jewelry as purple is pricey... But good time to practice Warden rotation at Bangkorai dolmens

. Did the same for Nightblade...

Thank you very much.

P. S.
I generally like r/elderscrollsonline as it's mostly better than here forum (at least general discussion) but bow/bow is still not understand.
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/8h3kf8/stam_sorc_wbow/

Also upvoting is like here on forum based on emotions and anecdotes. The most upvoted comment is correct at some things but:

not to mention the better morph of snipe for pve deals disease damage, as a stamsorc you get a bonus for physical damage so you lose that...

???

And #BosmerMasterRace

comment is mostly right (except s/he should use Automaton) but no, here come MA meta lemmings to explain and down vote.

exiars10 · May 2018

@SodanTok

I'm going to craft Hunding's Rage so quick check for bow traits (enchants):

front bar: infused (poison)
back bar: nirnhoned (weapon damage)

This is going to be the same in Summerset patch, right or some changes?

SodanTok · May 2018

exiars10 wrote: »

@SodanTok

I'm going to craft Hunding's Rage so quick check for bow traits (enchants):

front bar: infused (poison)
back bar: nirnhoned (weapon damage)

This is going to be the same in Summerset patch, right or some changes?

Redguard without new proc set infused next patch too, but otherwise there will be some changes. Like sharpened/sharpened or nirn/nirn because we need penetration.

Earrindo · May 2018

How are bow/bow wardens faring in summerset so far?

I've seen a few things mentioned, but I'm wondering if perhaps I'll be able to ditch my daggers for that second bow again ^^

SodanTok · May 2018

Earrindo wrote: »

How are bow/bow wardens faring in summerset so far?

I've seen a few things mentioned, but I'm wondering if perhaps I'll be able to ditch my daggers for that second bow again ^^

So far the best I got was 40k DPS with bear, war machine and... the new kinda OP proc set. So probably 35-36 with some normal set (TFS)

Issue with warden is that nothing got better for them that didnt got better for other classes. They lost longer fracture on sub assault (not big issue, but it means solo you will struggle having 100% fracture). And they already have better spammable than the psijic one. I guess the only advantage they kinda got over others is the war machine being front bar set now.

So relatively to other bow builds, they lost their main advantage (having access to unique instant spammable) while gaining the same advantages other got. And as for meta DW builds, the gap didnt shrink. Bows will still be behind by the same %.

Earrindo · May 2018

That sucks, especially as I'll likely never get war machine >.<
Ah well, thanks for the response, I guess I'll keep holding out hope

exiars10 · May 2018

Bow/bow DPS is fine and it goes up. I mean I do 20-25k DPS and burn every veteran group dungeon in HM (I avoid DLC one for various reasons) without any problem. Always keep in mind that average DD DPS in ESO is barely cracking 15k. I know as I play as a tank and healer, too and I see it every day (Combat Metrics). So many times group DPS can't reach even 20k and I do easily 5-7k DPS as tank or healer.

The main problem as was typed several times is a bit problematic survivability of bow/bow builds compared to DW and 2H builds. Also DW has two weapons so it can use two glyphs.

On another note, I never saw bow/bow player in group dungeon ever. Sometimes I see 2H/bow or even OHaS/bow combo (yes, I had those) but bow/bow players don't exist and I had/have guild runs with weird gear/skills combos.
I see bow/bow players in overland content (especially at dolmens) but it seems there is a stigma ? so they don't run it in group content... sadly.

SodanTok · May 2018

Earrindo wrote: »

That sucks, especially as I'll likely never get war machine >.<
Ah well, thanks for the response, I guess I'll keep holding out hope

Oh you definitely dont need war machine. Its just the set is good to be front barred (like briarheart or acuity) and is actually useful for yourself alone even tho it buffs group too. You can be perfectly fine using something else. You can do the standard TFS + VO and get close to 35k even on live. Spriggan + Hunding almost too.

Earrindo · May 2018

I am going to try and get VO, if I can, but TFS is tougher. Perhaps once jewelry crafting is live, and i can upgrade jewelry, but failing that, best case scenario for me is spriggans/VO, which I realize isnt bad, but from reading through this thread, bow/bow is shaky at best, and having the ideal sets seems to be pretty important.

I will definitely give it another shot, as it were, as I *much* prefer the playstyle of bow/bow. I guess I was hoping for more love in the Summerset patch specifically for bows.
I guess everyone on this thread was, hehe

SodanTok · May 2018

Earrindo wrote: »

I am going to try and get VO, if I can, but TFS is tougher. Perhaps once jewelry crafting is live, and i can upgrade jewelry, but failing that, best case scenario for me is spriggans/VO, which I realize isnt bad, but from reading through this thread, bow/bow is shaky at best, and having the ideal sets seems to be pretty important.

I will definitely give it another shot, as it were, as I *much* prefer the playstyle of bow/bow. I guess I was hoping for more love in the Summerset patch specifically for bows.
I guess everyone on this thread was, hehe

The difference between spriggan and TFS is very small. Few CP points can fix it. The damage gain from penetration is also multiplicative with your DPS, so the less you do the less is lost (and bows dont do as much as dws do)

SodanTok · May 2018

I will slowly start updating guide to address new patch, but for now this post will server as sort of 'patch'

New Patch Summary

Bows counting as 2 pieces meaning greater set diversity. With this, Master Bow + agility is no longer the best setup possible, but still viable. Generally if you can replace it with recommended 5 piece you will want to.
Light Attacks doing more damage and heavy attacks less than before. With this change, the importance of sustain is even more important now. Heavy attacks are now something to avoid if possible.
Psijic Skill Accelerate gives ranged builds the long needed Minor Force not tied to short lasting and expensive trap
Psijic Skill Imbue Weapon gives ranged builds access to instant and cheap spammable. Helping bow builds in situations where Snipe isnt very good.
Psijic Passive Concentrated Barrier gives bow builds (builds without shield and blade cloak) some useful defense in form of 5k shield on block.
New trial set called Relequen offering the highest single target DPS possible on bow build (will stay true even if slightly nerfed).

Without believing anyone from ZoS actually read this thread, they did indeed partially helped in many forms to the common problems of bow builds (set limitation, low survivability, DPS loss from using heavy attacks yet also not enough DPS gain from sustaining light attacks, missing spammable on non warden classes, missing 100% uptime minor force)

This also means many changes to gear:

In trial settings, stamina builds will require more penetration. There are 2 (imo) best ways to achieve needed penetration (probably around 7-9k) and thats combining TFS set with CP or Lover Mundus with CP.
Optimal Main (body) 5 piece sets: Relequen, TFS, VO, Automaton (sorc, templar), War Machine (warden)
Optimal Secondary (weapon) 5 piece sets: Briarheart, Acuity, War Machine (warden), VO
Optimal Monster sets: Stormfist, Velidreth
Optimal Front Bar trait: Infused (redguard without Relequen set), Nirn, Sharpened (if you lack CP)
Optimal Back Bar trait: Nirn, Sharpened (if you lack CP)

and skills:

Channeled Acceleration instead of lightweight trap, if you prefer using rearming (melee) trap, you can do that.
Crushing Weapon as spammable for any build that fits it along with Snipe. For builds that cant, use it over Snipe for fights that make snipe underperform (mobile fights, low fps or lags). Nightblade builds can freely use it over Snipe without noticeable DPS loss. Wardens still use Cutting dive (or snipe) with sub assault.
Acid Spray damage no longer worth the stamina cost. Useful in single target fights only on builds that can sustain it easily (Nightblades) or get increased damage (DKs). Still worth slotting for most situations, just used situationally, not part of rotation).

As for some other things:

Redguards are even better than before. So are Imperials (as 2nd best). Khajiits still outpeform Bosmer, but bosmer got slightly better than they were.
Food is 100% dubious for anyone but nightblades (and only if they can sustain bi stat food without heavy attacks)
Mundus as mentioned above will be much more commonly Lover, but Warrior is still possibility. Key is to get necessary penetration.

Jowrik · May 2018

Hey @SodanTok ,

I checked Swamp Raider on the PTS. I can proc it 100% of the time with every Poison DoT (and Merciless proc for NB). I don't even need to cast a magicka ability (it still doesn't proc from shadow image). I'm thinking PI, Lethal, Acid spray (maybe with Asylum bow, acid spray after shooting snipe instantly will proc this) + maelstrom bow ofc. Going for mainly poison dmg in CP, Weapon poisons (or enchant, although i think infused + berserker is best front bar). Lacking penetration can be solved with backbar Sharpened + CP.

Did some testing with Swamp Raider alongside these sets without Asylum:
- Briarheart
- VO
- Relequen
- TFS

All showed similar damage results on a dummy, between 31-33k.

Thoughts? Maybe some testing urself?

Cheers

exiars10 · May 2018

Of course results are similar as was posted by OP but I also posted Gillimatherogue video about NB when he trashed Mechanical Acuity.

Min-max chase is only relevant if you have guild and it does leaderboard trial runs so you need that extra ~1k DPS to be in the top 10? but that is the top of the top.

@SodanTok

Thank you very much for analysis. Yea, it's good that ranger (bow/bow) playstyle got boosted and I am overall very pleased about it. Hope one day ZOS will rework bow ulti and snipe as was suggested so many times and tweak some other bow skills.

SodanTok · May 2018

Jowrik wrote: »

Hey SodanTok ,

I checked Swamp Raider on the PTS. I can proc it 100% of the time with every Poison DoT (and Merciless proc for NB). I don't even need to cast a magicka ability (it still doesn't proc from shadow image). I'm thinking PI, Lethal, Acid spray (maybe with Asylum bow, acid spray after shooting snipe instantly will proc this) + maelstrom bow ofc. Going for mainly poison dmg in CP, Weapon poisons (or enchant, although i think infused + berserker is best front bar). Lacking penetration can be solved with backbar Sharpened + CP.

Did some testing with Swamp Raider alongside these sets without Asylum:
- Briarheart
- VO
- Relequen
- TFS

All showed similar damage results on a dummy, between 31-33k.

Thoughts? Maybe some testing urself?

Cheers

Never knew you can proc swamp raider without actually using magicka ability. But mathematically this set will never perform best. Even if you use acid spray (every 6s) and lethal arrow you simply cant not have over 40% DPS coming from physical endless hail + light attacks + caltrops. Then over 10% DPS comes from abilities not affected by weapon damage. Leaving Swamp Raider, even with 100% uptime, offering like 225 weapon damage.
I may look into it. But just the fact it limits you to lethal arrow is already bad thing (you may want focused aim to give fracture for groups without stamplar or you may want to use the psijic spammable)

exiars10 · May 2018

Another thread about bow in reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/8knnn2/if_bow_is_so_bad_why_does_every_stam_dps_build/
That place is weird - you can find some really nice non-meta threads and messages, but on the other side, meta lemmings like here on forum:

Dual bow goes well with warden, but not so much for other classes. Most just use it as a back bar on stamina builds.

This is the best answer. Wardens can effectively dual bow. No other class can. This is entirely because wardens have multiple ranged stamina abilities.

Just because Alcast posted only cliff racer build doesn't mean Warden is the best bow/bow class. The same parroting is here in forum, too.

I have super hard time farming purple Spriggan's jewelry for my Warden. I posted in forum how drops in Bangkorai are blatantly rigged. It's disgusting.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5133929#Comment_5133929
Then I thought why not using Briarheart? After all I had 40+ Wrothgar containers to open after anniversary event... I got one purple legs in divine and 2x blue rings: one is stamina, another is arcane

! WT..

On my NB I almost completely switched to Cyrodiil PvP, but still sometimes play group dungeons as I need keys for opening chests for shoulders... I farmed Sellestrix head, but need keys for rng chests. What I noticed is that I started to do up to 28k DPS. I use classical gear combo: 1x Kra'gh + 5x Hunding's + 5x Spriggan's.

When fight is static:

So, 30k easily but: weakest stamina race (don't care

)), no source of Major Brutality (explained why), not the best rotation (Relentless Focus is not 100% up, better LA weaving), forgot to switch Acid Spray with Poison Injection, forgot to use Killer's Blade immidiately when boss droped under 25% health, Danwbreaker is on back bar as I use Soul Harvest on the front, and Ballista is obviously better single target ultimate (forgot to switch), no crafted double damage poison on back bar (explained why)...

But when fight is not static, tank taunted melee boss (as I told him to do that) so penetration is lowered, and you have to move and roll dodge like at Illambris twins HM even with better rotation and skills...

20-28k DPS is still above average and if you don't play as a tank or/and healer you really don't know how typical group DPS looks like

.

TL; DR
Compared to just several months ago, I improved a lot and I play ESO since late 11/2017.

SodanTok · May 2018

exiars10 wrote: »

Great, thats why I made this thread. To help people down below improve and not get stuck on their 10k dps snipe spam builds or give up and switch to meta dw/bow.

As for people claiming stuff doesnt work or isnt good, most of the time its people playing at lower level just copying what high level people say without putting any thought to it themself (let alone trying)

AcadianPaladin · May 2018

Been monitoring this thread since it began and have commented on the inspiration it has provided a couple times. My little bowbow sorc continues to prosper and has gradually increased the content she can handle. Since monitoring this thread, her dps has gone from around 10K to nearly 20 - and we just do the occasional dummy check, don't drill/practice vs the dummy.

Plenty of good tips but mostly, just the encouragement that bow/bow, with lots of care and feeding, can be viable. Thanks for this thread!

exiars10 · May 2018

@SodanTok

Thank you.

Since server is down, I have something to share. You maybe saw those videos, but if you didn't... DPS Summerset PTS results similar to yours. That Russian guy is archer player AFAIK (he has even stamina Warden bow/bow healer).

39k+ on Warden on 3M dummy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt1WWvRrJXk

47k on Nightblade on 6M dummy (68k on trial buff). I'll say crazy high DPS and he proved again that Shadow Silk is very strong ability... in proper conditions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GgtbIlev28

But there is more - 43k on Sorcerer on 3M dummy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwK3HcrxX4

38k on DK on 3M dummy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwK3HcrxX4

Almost 39k on Templar on 3M dummy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAbIllLq1yg

So archers defenitely get buffed in Summerset, indirectly

. Can't wait later today to see how much my NB gained DPS from just the bow counted as 2 pieces.

AcadianPaladin · May 2018

I'm just getting into the new patch update and am not in the same league as many of the bow/bow players here. That said, I'm delighted with the bound armor changes for my sorc. The old heavy attack bonus rendered the skill not worth slotting for me. But a bonus to light attacks? Woot!

So I double slotted it and ran just a a pure light attack dps check vs dummy - 10K dps just from light attack spamming! So I tried a bit fuller check. Surge, hurricane, barrage, caltrops, light attacks and blasted through 20K dps. Mind you that 20K is a record for me. I can really see the growing potential of this character since I'm still pretty rough on dps vs dummy rotation smoothness.

As bow/bow players know, sustain is a challenge and the more significant my light attacks are the easier sustain is. This is a nice change.

*happy elf*

lanzim3 · May 2018

any changes since summerset is on?

SodanTok · May 2018

lanzim3 wrote: »

any changes since summerset is on?

This post has all the summary regarding summerset changes

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5126462/#Comment_5126462

goldenarcher1 · May 2018

Has any of you noticed a large damage increase in the bow ultimate Ballista?

Was about 55k on my stamblade before summerset patch and is now 70k+ .

Raraaku · May 2018

I must say, the Psijic Order has been such a boon for my bow/bow set-up, particularly crushing weapon and accelerate.

lanzim3 · May 2018

SodanTok wrote: »

lanzim3 wrote: »

any changes since summerset is on?

This post has all the summary regarding summerset changes

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5126462/#Comment_5126462

love ya, imma go starting make some sets and stuff for my stam nb im so bored of playing with sorc, bow bow seems my way to go

exiars10 · May 2018

Last night I finally tried Maelstrom Arena... on normal. So much bugs, lag spikes and getting stuck...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5172088/#Comment_5172088

You all know how I like to post from reddit about archers, so here we go again:
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/8mfdfq/i_want_to_do_a_non_meta_build_how_screwed_am_i/

You're intended to have 2 weapon sets. There are viable builds for DW/2h, DW/Bow, 2H/Bow, and for Warden Bow/Bow due to class abilities. Technically BowBow is possible on NB as well, it's just a lot harder.

Same old parroting except new news is bow/bow on NB is technically possible

... Maybe by the end of the year reddit will accept that NB archers are reality... Nah, who I kid, they won't unless Alcast posts build

.

My Summerset experience on my NB archer
Sellistrix Monster set - this set is either useless or great. From DPS side, it's statistical error and it's obviously useless at skeleton parses and at bosses' fights who are CC immune. But for overland content and trash fights - it's both great and hilarious. Also it's really underrated and hilarious in Cyrodiil at choke points

but it's not about PvP...

2x Sellistrix + 5x Hunding's Rage + 5x Spriggan's Thorn VS 1x Kra'gh + 5x Hunding's Rage + 3x Agility + 3x Unfathomable Darkness --> no DPS difference in my case when parsed, but Sellistrix is very usefull for trash fights so yea.

I rarely play group dungeons any more (unless somebody needs it i.e. friends or guild mates) but I did skeleton parses anyway.

My skeleton DPS parses
The new guild I joined has 3M skeleton but I have weird lag spikes inside their home...
Shadow Silk vs Rearming Trap - RT has 1k higher DPS, but SS is obviously better if group has one stamina DD (bonus if it's obviously DK) and it can and mostly hits more trash.
I'm doing 24-25k with lag problems.

Then I TPed to the estate of my trader's guild, and it has only 6M skeleton... I admit I have stamina sustain problem even with Dubious Camoran Throne (1,3k stamina recovery is simply not enough even I constantly used trash stamina potions - so using one recovery glyph is a solution), I also used Reaper‘s Mark which is DPS gain on paper except it ruins a bit rotation. I also didn't use RT or SS as I simply can't sustain it. Tried several times and it's ~22k. I found out what are the problems (outside sustain) but I'm simply too lazy as in PvE I'm mostly just questing (I have still so much to play).

TL; DR
My lowest DPS (worst case scenario) is raised from 20k to 22k simply because bow's light and heavy attacks are buffed.
One stamina recovery glyph is a must (infused is great) so I don't have to use too much heavy attacks...

SodanTok · May 2018

exiars10 wrote: »

Last night I finally tried Maelstrom Arena... on normal. So much bugs, lag spikes and getting stuck...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5172088/#Comment_5172088

You all know how I like to post from reddit about archers, so here we go again:
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/8mfdfq/i_want_to_do_a_non_meta_build_how_screwed_am_i/

You're intended to have 2 weapon sets. There are viable builds for DW/2h, DW/Bow, 2H/Bow, and for Warden Bow/Bow due to class abilities. Technically BowBow is possible on NB as well, it's just a lot harder.

Same old parroting except new news is bow/bow on NB is technically possible ... Maybe by the end of the year reddit will accept that NB archers are reality... Nah, who I kid, they won't unless Alcast posts build .

My Summerset experience on my NB archer
Sellistrix Monster set - this set is either useless or great. From DPS side, it's statistical error and it's obviously useless at skeleton parses and at bosses' fights who are CC immune. But for overland content and trash fights - it's both great and hilarious. Also it's really underrated and hilarious in Cyrodiil at choke points but it's not about PvP...

2x Sellistrix + 5x Hunding's Rage + 5x Spriggan's Thorn VS 1x Kra'gh + 5x Hunding's Rage + 3x Agility + 3x Unfathomable Darkness --> no DPS difference in my case when parsed, but Sellistrix is very usefull for trash fights so yea.

I rarely play group dungeons any more (unless somebody needs it i.e. friends or guild mates) but I did skeleton parses anyway.

My skeleton DPS parses
The new guild I joined has 3M skeleton but I have weird lag spikes inside their home...
Shadow Silk vs Rearming Trap - RT has 1k higher DPS, but SS is obviously better if group has one stamina DD (bonus if it's obviously DK) and it can and mostly hits more trash.
I'm doing 24-25k with lag problems.

Then I TPed to the estate of my trader's guild, and it has only 6M skeleton... I admit I have stamina sustain problem even with Dubious Camoran Throne (1,3k stamina recovery is simply not enough even I constantly used trash stamina potions - so using one recovery glyph is a solution), I also used Reaper‘s Mark which is DPS gain on paper except it ruins a bit rotation. I also didn't use RT or SS as I simply can't sustain it. Tried several times and it's ~22k. I found out what are the problems (outside sustain) but I'm simply too lazy as in PvE I'm mostly just questing (I have still so much to play).

TL; DR
My lowest DPS (worst case scenario) is raised from 20k to 22k simply because bow's light and heavy attacks are buffed.
One stamina recovery glyph is a must (infused is great) so I don't have to use too much heavy attacks...

Keep Leeching strikes (as NB) up all the time and you will have better sustain by a lot. As for DPS, lags are always awful DPS losing source on NB, but eventually with practice you will improve a lot.

exiars10 · May 2018

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I'm just getting into the new patch update and am not in the same league as many of the bow/bow players here. That said, I'm delighted with the bound armor changes for my sorc. The old heavy attack bonus rendered the skill not worth slotting for me. But a bonus to light attacks? Woot!

So I double slotted it and ran just a a pure light attack dps check vs dummy - 10K dps just from light attack spamming! So I tried a bit fuller check. Surge, hurricane, barrage, caltrops, light attacks and blasted through 20K dps. Mind you that 20K is a record for me. I can really see the growing potential of this character since I'm still pretty rough on dps vs dummy rotation smoothness.

As bow/bow players know, sustain is a challenge and the more significant my light attacks are the easier sustain is. This is a nice change.

*happy elf*

When you play as a tank or a healer, you wish you have at least one DD who can do 20k DPS... which is above average no matter what some people say in forum.

I posted I did 28k DPS at Cavern Patriarch and then on my Warden tank, the same veteran pledge, you get this

...

20k DPS is enough even for DLC veteran dungeons as long as you know mechanics. Being dead DD = 0 DPS

.

You are doing very well and it's not that I do much more DPS anyway, ha ha.