Would you support earning Crown Items with Gold-to-Crown conversion?

Aliyavana · May 2018

Feanor wrote: »

CS items for Gold are a botter‘s dream come true.

In wow it hurt gold seller revenue

Feanor · May 2018

Aliyavana wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

CS items for Gold are a botter‘s dream come true.

In wow it hurt gold seller revenue

I don’t believe that. Logic would say that the demand for gold increases with the things you can actually buy with said gold. Now, of course you can go straight to the crown store too. But if the conversion to botted gold made the item price cheaper, people would be tempted to go that route.

Knowledge · May 2018

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

The way I see it...
Crowns to Gold limits scamming and abuse

Crowns to gold improve revenue for ZeniMax

Improve revenue means better content.

Without a system like this scams-for-gifts will be commonplace.

A gold to crowns system would be interesting, but a crowns to gold system is a completely different thing.....the way I see it.

Well, there has to be an incentive for the publisher to implement a gold to crowns system. They can't just "give away" crown store items so money has to be involved. People have to be buying our gold with their crowns.

Otherwise, while it would be fantastic, it just wouldn't make sense and never happen.

Knowledge · May 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

CS items for Gold are a botter‘s dream come true.

In wow it hurt gold seller revenue

I don’t believe that. Logic would say that the demand for gold increases with the things you can actually buy with said gold. Now, of course you can go straight to the crown store too. But if the conversion to botted gold made the item price cheaper, people would be tempted to go that route.

I mean, it's common supply and demand here.

Right now gold farmers control the supply.

If ZeniMax let us purchase gold with crowns there would be a larger supply.

When there is a greater supply than there is demand the price falls.

If demand increases and supply remains unchanged, then it leads to higher equilibrium price and higher quantity.
If demand decreases and supply remains unchanged, then it leads to lower equilibrium price and lower quantity.
If supply increases and demand remains unchanged, then it leads to lower equilibrium price and higher quantity.
If supply decreases and demand remains unchanged, then it leads to higher equilibrium price and lower quantity.

This isn't really something we can debate it's been proven.

Gold farmers will never fully "go away" that's like expecting crime to end in reality. However, the amount they charge for gold will drop dramatically. Nonetheless, most people would rather securely buy gold through a sanctioned system as to not risk account loss.

Fischblut · May 2018

I would totally support exchange of gold to crown store items!

If I could buy mounts, pets, cosmetics (and those dungeon DLCs which I can't justify to buy until they are 500 crowns max

) with gold which I earned while playing, I would feel like I earned those mounts, pets and cosmetics by actually playing the game.
Even better, I would buy many cosmetics which I wouldn't buy with crowns (cause I like them, bit don't like them enough to spend real money).

Aliyavana · May 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

CS items for Gold are a botter‘s dream come true.

In wow it hurt gold seller revenue

I don’t believe that. Logic would say that the demand for gold increases with the things you can actually buy with said gold. Now, of course you can go straight to the crown store too. But if the conversion to botted gold made the item price cheaper, people would be tempted to go that route.

The bans of irl to in-game trading is harsh usually in mmos. Eso banned one of the most popular streamers for irl to gold trading so most people will not want to risk getting banned. Zos would tap into the market that the more honest players wouldn't try doing and those players can make more money than gold with their time and so would spend lots for gold if they could buy from zos directly without the fear of being banned

Knowledge · May 2018

Fischblut wrote: »

I would totally support exchange of gold to crown store items! If I could buy mounts, pets, cosmetics (and those dungeon DLCs which I can't justify to buy until they are 500 crowns max ) with gold which I earned while playing, I would feel like I earned those mounts, pets and cosmetics by actually playing the game.
Even better, I would buy many cosmetics which I wouldn't buy with crowns (cause I like them, bit don't like them enough to spend real money).

Thanks for commenting. I think this is how most of us feel. I think the player base would also appreciate crown crates more if they were able to get them with gold-for-crowns. There's be less issue with the RNG of the crates. Someone is still buying them (whoever bought the crowns initially) so it's a win for all parties.

Feanor · May 2018

Aliyavana wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

CS items for Gold are a botter‘s dream come true.

In wow it hurt gold seller revenue

I don’t believe that. Logic would say that the demand for gold increases with the things you can actually buy with said gold. Now, of course you can go straight to the crown store too. But if the conversion to botted gold made the item price cheaper, people would be tempted to go that route.

The bans of irl to in-game trading is harsh usually in mmos. Eso banned one of the most popular streamers for irl to gold trading so most people will not want to risk getting banned. Zos would tap into the market that the more honest players wouldn't try doing and those players can make more money than gold with their time and so would spend lots for gold if they could buy from zos directly without the fear of being banned

I still don’t see why ZOS would cut into their own profits. Every item sold with in game gold to crown conversion is an item not sold with real money.

Besides, I don’t believe they really crack down on botters and gold sellers.

Aliyavana · May 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

CS items for Gold are a botter‘s dream come true.

In wow it hurt gold seller revenue

I don’t believe that. Logic would say that the demand for gold increases with the things you can actually buy with said gold. Now, of course you can go straight to the crown store too. But if the conversion to botted gold made the item price cheaper, people would be tempted to go that route.

The bans of irl to in-game trading is harsh usually in mmos. Eso banned one of the most popular streamers for irl to gold trading so most people will not want to risk getting banned. Zos would tap into the market that the more honest players wouldn't try doing and those players can make more money than gold with their time and so would spend lots for gold if they could buy from zos directly without the fear of being banned

I still don’t see why ZOS would cut into their own profits. Every item sold with in game gold to crown conversion is an item not sold with real money.

Besides, I don’t believe they really crack down on botters and gold sellers.

This is one of the most casual mmos out there, with zos heavily targeting the casual player base. Many of these casuals spend a lot of time outside the game making money and it is easier to say earn 15 bucks and spend it on 2 million gold than it is to make 2 million gold for the average player. The more hardcore players can earn crown items with gold and eliminate inflation in eso as well and that would tackle two problems at once

Knowledge · May 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

CS items for Gold are a botter‘s dream come true.

In wow it hurt gold seller revenue

I don’t believe that. Logic would say that the demand for gold increases with the things you can actually buy with said gold. Now, of course you can go straight to the crown store too. But if the conversion to botted gold made the item price cheaper, people would be tempted to go that route.

The bans of irl to in-game trading is harsh usually in mmos. Eso banned one of the most popular streamers for irl to gold trading so most people will not want to risk getting banned. Zos would tap into the market that the more honest players wouldn't try doing and those players can make more money than gold with their time and so would spend lots for gold if they could buy from zos directly without the fear of being banned

I still don’t see why ZOS would cut into their own profits. Every item sold with in game gold to crown conversion is an item not sold with real money.

Besides, I don’t believe they really crack down on botters and gold sellers.

No, it's not.. I don't think you're understanding how this works. Every crown item would be purchased by someone still.

So X Player buys crowns. Y Player has gold to exchange for crowns. X Player exchanges his crowns for gold. Y Player gives up gold to the integrated system and X player gets gold while Y player gets the crowns.

X player still pays for the crowns
Y player gets those crowns.
X player receives gold in exchange.
This promotes more crown sales.

JasonSilverSpring · May 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

I think that would get shut down pretty quick though; what would be the reason for the chargeback?

Conversation 1:
"I want a chargeback for my crown purchase!"
"Did you get your crowns?"
"Yes."
"Did you spend your crowns on something from the Crown Store?"
"Yes."
"Did that item or items get credited to your account?"
"Yes, but I bought them as a gift!"
"Did you give that item or items away?"
"Yes."
"Ok, we're done here."

Conversation 2:
"I want a chargeback for my crown purchase!"
"Did you get your crowns?"
"Yes."
"Did you spend your crowns on something from the Crown Store?"
"Yes."
"Did that item or items get credited to your account?"
"Yes, but when I tried to trade someone the stuff for gold, he never sent the gold!"
"Not the intended purpose of the system, and not our problem. Ok, we're done here."

I'm not sure what other possible conversations people who attempting a chargeback would use?

It depends on the credit card company and there's something called "chargeback fraud".

For example in some cases the card holder will just argue "it wasn't delivered!" and some card companies default to the cardholder on anything digital, etc. It's not as cut and dry as it may seem.

What you're demonstrating in your mock conversations is logical and how it should work, though. However, many times it does not work that way.

ZOS has it in their TOS that accounts that have a charge back are suspended. So, that person would lose their ability to play until they sorted it out with ZOS.

MercTheMage · May 2018

Oh yeah that's a great idea. I long to spend 2m gold for 200 crowns -_-

Knowledge · May 2018

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

I think that would get shut down pretty quick though; what would be the reason for the chargeback?

Conversation 1:
"I want a chargeback for my crown purchase!"
"Did you get your crowns?"
"Yes."
"Did you spend your crowns on something from the Crown Store?"
"Yes."
"Did that item or items get credited to your account?"
"Yes, but I bought them as a gift!"
"Did you give that item or items away?"
"Yes."
"Ok, we're done here."

Conversation 2:
"I want a chargeback for my crown purchase!"
"Did you get your crowns?"
"Yes."
"Did you spend your crowns on something from the Crown Store?"
"Yes."
"Did that item or items get credited to your account?"
"Yes, but when I tried to trade someone the stuff for gold, he never sent the gold!"
"Not the intended purpose of the system, and not our problem. Ok, we're done here."

I'm not sure what other possible conversations people who attempting a chargeback would use?

It depends on the credit card company and there's something called "chargeback fraud".

For example in some cases the card holder will just argue "it wasn't delivered!" and some card companies default to the cardholder on anything digital, etc. It's not as cut and dry as it may seem.

What you're demonstrating in your mock conversations is logical and how it should work, though. However, many times it does not work that way.

ZOS has it in their TOS that accounts that have a charge back are suspended. So, that person would lose their ability to play until they sorted it out with ZOS.

Absolutely, but that doesn't mean it won't still happen.

Knowledge · May 2018

MercTheMage wrote: »

Oh yeah that's a great idea. I long to spend 2m gold for 200 crowns -_-

I highly doubt that would be the exchange rate.

Zorgon_The_Revenged · May 2018

All things considered, there isn't really anything in the store or in game for me to be part of the crowns/gold system.

80-90% of the things I've bought with crowns have come from crowns I got from ESO+, anything I need in game I can get from playing or buying at a reasonable price (with gold I made from playing with a small boost from ESO+).
As long as it doesn't create market monopolies and inflated prices, beyond what we no doubt already have in game and out, making my in game gold/in game time worth less I guess I have no problems with it. I might even benefit from selling unused ESO+ crowns for gold if the conversion rate is good.

cyberjanet · May 2018

It would be easier to just sell ESO+ on the store for crowns so you would just earn the crowns and they buy it that way.

Then you wouldn't have access to ESO+ on the other server. Crown purchases are server bound. I certainly wouldn't want to buy ESO+ twice.

Geekgirl · May 2018

I am a plus subscriber and a purchaser of crowns.

I would LOVE for them to add a gold to crown conversion.

I would still purchase my crowns with dollars because I really stink at making money in game, but I know a bunch of folks who have less disposable income but are far better at working the auction guilds.

Working the in-game markets to make a lot of in-game coin takes work and strategy; like the real markets, you need to watch trends and inflation and market flooding. People who put in that kind of effort should be able to transfer some of that gold into crowns.

I think this would be a great addition.

MerlinPendragon · May 2018

I would support it, but in the right system only. Finding that right system is where the devil in the details is. In all likelihood, it would turn out badly.

JKorr · May 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

CS items for Gold are a botter‘s dream come true.

In wow it hurt gold seller revenue

I don’t believe that. Logic would say that the demand for gold increases with the things you can actually buy with said gold. Now, of course you can go straight to the crown store too. But if the conversion to botted gold made the item price cheaper, people would be tempted to go that route.

The bans of irl to in-game trading is harsh usually in mmos. Eso banned one of the most popular streamers for irl to gold trading so most people will not want to risk getting banned. Zos would tap into the market that the more honest players wouldn't try doing and those players can make more money than gold with their time and so would spend lots for gold if they could buy from zos directly without the fear of being banned

I still don’t see why ZOS would cut into their own profits. Every item sold with in game gold to crown conversion is an item not sold with real money.

Besides, I don’t believe they really crack down on botters and gold sellers.

No, it's not.. I don't think you're understanding how this works. Every crown item would be purchased by someone still.

So X Player buys crowns. Y Player has gold to exchange for crowns. X Player exchanges his crowns for gold. Y Player gives up gold to the integrated system and X player gets gold while Y player gets the crowns.
X player still pays for the crowns

Y player gets those crowns.

X player receives gold in exchange.

This promotes more crown sales.

And the gold sellers lower their prices, so some/many people [look at the complaints threads about how little of a "sale" ZOS had on crowns] totally ignore the official channels and buy gold from the gold sellers anyway.

Until there are definite rules that carry more than a slap on the hand penalty, I doubt its worth the hassle.

DanteYoda · May 2018

Phage wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

The only reason they do this is because the store is P2W.

It's how they justify selling gold or items that can be sold for gold.

Only trash failing games need to do this to keep their servers open.

Eso is neither trash, nor failing.

If these other games are so great, go play them!

WoW isn't failing and does it. WoW is the biggest MMO.

I'd say it is trash though.

Go play it then, and you can spew your bad ideas on their forums.

DanteYoda wrote: »

I don't get it knowledge why don't you just play GW2 and not make ESO like that abomination..

Cause seriously GW2 is garbage.

Both of you guys need to cool it. You can discuss differing opinions without resorting to bad decorum.

I don't normally say that about mmos but GW2 is really garbage.. Nothing like awesome Guildwars was and after heart of thorns it was just tedious as well..

Beardimus · May 2018

This is another one of those things that gains positive feedback but wouldn't be a good thing.

I could post tomorrow let's all have a free million gold or instant CP cap and a load of people would happy. Would it be good or is it needed. No.
The concept of officially heading into IRL cash conversion is an ugly path to consider.

Personally it would put me off the game.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Just sale for gold. I don’t follow why gold to crowns is a thought

Because the expectation is that people will go "Hey, WTS crown store mount for Gold, whisper offer"

And other people are like, "Dude, how can you make sure you don't get scammed? You can't!"

And then some people say "ZOS, you should make sure people don't get scammed!"

But so far ZOS is all radio silence, so as far as we know, ZOS doesn't give a fart if people get scammed, since they should have been using the system to give other people gifts not trades.

@VaranisArano
My comment should be understood as....there shouldn’t be any crown store items at all that can’t be obtained in playing the game.

If we are going to request something let’s request something they’ve already agreed to that they went back on their word on.

If you want to remove the possibility of being scammed remove the incentive to involve any real money. I’d gladly pay fo things to keep the game running but coming from experiences like WoW and Diablos Real money auction house....this is going to go down bad.

The issues arent gifting crown items or crowns, the issue is items in the crown store that aren’t otherwise attainable.

It’s almost more simplified to interpret the OP as a way to ask to spend real money for gold exchange.

Violynne · May 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

What you're failing to account for is that these systems have been implemented in hundreds of games and the result is always people gifting for gold with some people using it as intended.

What you're failing to account for is no one is going to care about this.

There is no monetary gain here, so as far as ZoS is concerned, they're not going to do anything about "scams". BOTH parties would be responsible for taking part, so there can be no victim with this.

For the rest of us, we see a player and want to offer up a gift, we'll send them, they'll accept it and return a "thank you", and the system works as intended.

Kybotica · May 2018

akl77 wrote: »

No, then it’s not longer crown exclusive

Good. Most of us don't want crown exclusive items. We'd like to be able to earn cosmetic upgrades through in-game activity, not through spending hard-earned and limited cash for them as the only option.

VexingArcanist · May 2018

I support having a larger selection of in-game EARNED rewards that RIVALS the crown store. It's one thing to monetize a game AND desire a monthly fee on top, it's another thing to completely drive the vast majority of revenue off cosmetic monetization.

Juju_beans · May 2018

Umariel wrote: »

I personally would love this. I buy WoW tokens with gold all the time and keep my sub going that way.

That being said, ZO$ is no Blizzard. They would never do anything to make less money. Even if that means player retention.

Actually Blizzard is making an extra $5 for every token used to pay the sub.

Token cost is $20.
Sub cost is $15.

When you buy a token for $20 and put on the AH you are paying $20 for someone to buy it with worthless virtual game gold to pay their sub. And that means you pay $20 to cover a $15 sub fee.

VaranisArano · May 2018

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Just sale for gold. I don’t follow why gold to crowns is a thought

Because the expectation is that people will go "Hey, WTS crown store mount for Gold, whisper offer"

And other people are like, "Dude, how can you make sure you don't get scammed? You can't!"

And then some people say "ZOS, you should make sure people don't get scammed!"

But so far ZOS is all radio silence, so as far as we know, ZOS doesn't give a fart if people get scammed, since they should have been using the system to give other people gifts not trades.

VaranisArano
My comment should be understood as....there shouldn’t be any crown store items at all that can’t be obtained in playing the game.

If we are going to request something let’s request something they’ve already agreed to that they went back on their word on.

If you want to remove the possibility of being scammed remove the incentive to involve any real money. I’d gladly pay fo things to keep the game running but coming from experiences like WoW and Diablos Real money auction house....this is going to go down bad.

The issues arent gifting crown items or crowns, the issue is items in the crown store that aren’t otherwise attainable.

It’s almost more simplified to interpret the OP as a way to ask to spend real money for gold exchange.

Okay, I get what you mean. Kind of like cutting out the crown middle-man?

Nyladreas · May 2018

So many people here are innocent and naive.

This 100% inevitability will result in gold for crowns trade whether your innocent mind likes it or not.

If you can get crates through someone else for gold, you will.

terrordactyl1971 · May 2018

Neverwinter has an exchange rate for all its currencies

Crowns - gold - crown gems exchange rates in all directions would be good

VaranisArano · May 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

So many people here are innocent and naive.

This 100% inevitability will result in gold for crowns trade whether your innocent mind likes it or not.

If you can get crates through someone else for gold, you will.

Of course it will.

The question under debate is whether or not ZOS will legitimize it and thus minimize the risk or let it happen "at your own risk" with little to no recourse against scammers.