Reduce cost of Concealed Weapon

NyassaV · May 2018

Concealed Weapon currently costs as much as force pulse despite being a melee ability. Melee Abilities are traditionally cheaper. So if Strife isn't going to cost the lesser amount that it should we should make Concealed Weapon cost the same as other melee spammables. About 2.2k magicka is the cost of whip, the most commonly used magicka spammable that is melee and not a channeled abilty

JPcrazysquirrel3 · May 2018

Yes

But they should also change strife back

NyassaV · May 2018

Shut up and change strife

JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »

But they should also change strife back

yeah but I like giving people options

WrathOfInnos · May 2018

Yes

Interesting idea, it could maybe bring back melee magblades. Though they would still be giving up 3 good ranged spammable options (pulse, funnel, imbue) for concealed weapon. It might need a damage boost to be viable in PVE.

Vapirko · May 2018

No

Omg, how many threads is this that focus on how the game should work more in your favor? We have nerf stam (just in general), change battle grounds, buff magicka for more spell damage, better evasion and more direct mitigation... I know there were a couple others.

NyassaV · May 2018

Shut up and change strife

Vapirko wrote: »

Omg, how many threads is this that focus on how the game should work more in your favor? We have nerf stam (just in general), change battle grounds, buff magicka for more spell damage, better evasion and more direct mitigation... I know there were a couple others.

No literally everything you listed was incorrect XD

I have asked for Magicka to be able to break free reliably, that does not mean nerf stamina

Changing battlegrounds is fine? Sometimes tweaks should happen when it comes to scoring things. Healer get almost nothing out of it and tanks are sorta lack luster unless in Choas ball or some domination match or crazy king

I never said anything even remotely close to "buff magicka for more spell damage"

I don't even know where evasion came from

and in fact I've often said Medium armor should have more resistances values which is the main form of mitigation

Subversus · May 2018

No

To be completely honest, your threads start to trigger me. They’re extremely biased towards your inexperienced view on game balance and have no actual good suggestions in it.

You do realize what lowering the cost of concealed will do right? Melee magblades are strong enough in open world as it is, leave them be. Why the hell would you want to buff something that is already performing fine?

Strider__Roshin · May 2018

Yes

Both morphs.

Strider__Roshin · May 2018

Yes

Also give concealed Major breach, and get rid of the movement speed bonus.

thankyourat · May 2018

Yes

I would actually be for a concealed cost decrease it's probably the most expensive spammable in the game. I also consider melee magblade weaker than destro for pretty much everything but solo cyrodiil. The amount of regen you have to build to play a melee magblade is absurd and concealed is a big reason for that. If the cost was lowered I would probably consider playing melee magblade more. As it stands I don't like building close to 3000 mag regen to deal with a spammable that forces me into melee range

HuawaSepp · May 2018

Daus wrote: »

and get rid of the movement speed bonus.

A nerf to our questing toolkit?!?
No, just no.
I miss on some morrowind and cwc quests already and summerset is here to come...

Derra · May 2018

Yes

Daus wrote: »

Also give concealed Major breach, and get rid of the movement speed bonus.

Urg - noo!

RoyJade · May 2018

HuawaSepp wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

and get rid of the movement speed bonus.

A nerf to our questing toolkit?!?
No, just no.
I miss on some morrowind and cwc quests already and summerset is here to come...

Totally agree. Not everything is combat related. A buff to concealed, why not, but not that.

I do not see the whole picture enough to say if a cost reduction for concealed is a good thing (I just know that a cost reduction for surprise attack would be a bad idea), but I wonder if an additional dot when used in stealth/invisibility would be good. If the dot is long enough (20-25 second) to not be too bursty for pvp but strong enough to give both cloak and concealed a slot in pve build, it may be interesting. I still remember of the devs saying that they want to gives a reason to play a shadowy nightblade in raids and endgame dungeons, and along with some very specific mechanisms, that's the best idea I come with.

mr_wazzabi · May 2018

Yes

RoyJade wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

and get rid of the movement speed bonus.

A nerf to our questing toolkit?!?
No, just no.
I miss on some morrowind and cwc quests already and summerset is here to come...

Totally agree. Not everything is combat related. A buff to concealed, why not, but not that.

I do not see the whole picture enough to say if a cost reduction for concealed is a good thing (I just know that a cost reduction for surprise attack would be a bad idea), but I wonder if an additional dot when used in stealth/invisibility would be good. If the dot is long enough (20-25 second) to not be too bursty for pvp but strong enough to give both cloak and concealed a slot in pve build, it may be interesting. I still remember of the devs saying that they want to gives a reason to play a shadowy nightblade in raids and endgame dungeons, and along with some very specific mechanisms, that's the best idea I come with.

I think concealed weapon costs more than surprise attack. This is the issue.

Surprise attack had its cost lowered by 20% to match weappn skill lowered costs. Concealed is magicka, so it didn't get that treatment.

RoyJade · May 2018

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

I think concealed weapon costs more than surprise attack. This is the issue.

Surprise attack had its cost lowered by 20% to match weappn skill lowered costs. Concealed is magicka, so it didn't get that treatment.

Yep, as every stamina skill, SA get a cost decrease. That's because stamina is used for skills and mechanisms, when magicka is only used for skills.
I don't think the cost is the real problem for concealed : it cost the same as force pulse and does roughly 14% more damage. It may lack secondary effect since FP is distant (more versatility), can apply burned, concussed and chilled, hit two nearby enemies affected by those effects, is boosted by altmer/dunmer passives, ignore 10% of the enemy's resistance and active ancient knowledge. Concealed gives major resolve/ward for 6 second (7,5 for a 5-1-1 setup, 9 for a 5-0-2), add 3% health when slotted, increase sneaky movement speed and stun + set the enemy off balance when used from stealth ; that's doesn't compete well with all force pulse's advantages in term of raw dps.

Strider__Roshin · May 2018

Yes

The fact that both morphs of Veiled Strike deal similar damage to both morphs of Dive, but cost 10% more and have a 5m range rather than Dive's 28m is a gross imbalance. Both morphs of Veiled Strike need a cost reduction.

rileynotzb14_ESO · May 2018

No

Lol. More bad NBs crying for buffs. Nothing to see here. Move along.

mr_wazzabi · May 2018

Yes

RoyJade wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

I think concealed weapon costs more than surprise attack. This is the issue.

Surprise attack had its cost lowered by 20% to match weappn skill lowered costs. Concealed is magicka, so it didn't get that treatment.

Yep, as every stamina skill, SA get a cost decrease. That's because stamina is used for skills and mechanisms, when magicka is only used for skills.
I don't think the cost is the real problem for concealed : it cost the same as force pulse and does roughly 14% more damage. It may lack secondary effect since FP is distant (more versatility), can apply burned, concussed and chilled, hit two nearby enemies affected by those effects, is boosted by altmer/dunmer passives, ignore 10% of the enemy's resistance and active ancient knowledge. Concealed gives major resolve/ward for 6 second (7,5 for a 5-1-1 setup, 9 for a 5-0-2), add 3% health when slotted, increase sneaky movement speed and stun + set the enemy off balance when used from stealth ; that's doesn't compete well with all force pulse's advantages in term of raw dps.

It does not compete, no. If they lower its cost to match SA, it would be much more viable, although it still won't be a good choice in pve. Force pulse wins for everything endgame except vma. You can thank zos for nerfing strife and killing diversity this way

reprosal · May 2018

rileynotzb14_ESO wrote: »

Lol. More bad NBs crying for buffs. Nothing to see here. Move along.

I agree with you completely. This man is 100% posting biased polls instead of L2P.

NyassaV · May 2018

Shut up and change strife

Subversus wrote: »

To be completely honest, your threads start to trigger me. They’re extremely biased towards your inexperienced view on game balance and have no actual good suggestions in it.

You do realize what lowering the cost of concealed will do right? Melee magblades are strong enough in open world as it is, leave them be. Why the hell would you want to buff something that is already performing fine?

Buff something that preforms just fine? You talking about DKs too right?

I'm really just poking holes in stuff. Like the fact all ranged spammables should totally 100% be the cost of force pulse and melee is supposed to be cheaper yet this one oddly isn't and strife is getting screwed over anyways. I could care less if Con Weapon gets changed or not but it'd be nice since strife is getting screwed

Honestly a small cost reduction is almost a quality of life change rather than a buff and since strife is getting gutted Concealed Weapon could use a bit of love.

But whatever, believe what you like

thankyourat · May 2018

Yes

reprosal wrote: »

rileynotzb14_ESO wrote: »

Lol. More bad NBs crying for buffs. Nothing to see here. Move along.

I agree with you completely. This man is 100% posting biased polls instead of L2P.

Well this isn't technically L2P you are pre-judging this topic based on your previous experience with the the person who created this post. Concealed weapon is way too expensive for a melee spammable. It's the most expensive spammable in game. And it's the main reason why since the game was released I have pretty much always used strife as a spammable. the cost of concealed weapon makes it a horrible ability. The damage of this ability does not match the cost. For this ability to be viable for anything other than a speed bonus it needs it's cost decrease. magblades wishing to run this ability will need 2500 or more mag regen

HuawaSepp · May 2018

thankyourat wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

rileynotzb14_ESO wrote: »

Lol. More bad NBs crying for buffs. Nothing to see here. Move along.

I agree with you completely. This man is 100% posting biased polls instead of L2P.

Well this isn't technically L2P you are pre-judging this topic based on your previous experience with the the person who created this post. Concealed weapon is way too expensive for a melee spammable. It's the most expensive spammable in game. And it's the main reason why since the game was released I have pretty much always used strife as a spammable. the cost of concealed weapon makes it a horrible ability. The damage of this ability does not match the cost. For this ability to be viable for anything other than a speed bonus it needs it's cost decrease. magblades wishing to run this ability will need 2500 or more mag regen

It costs the exact same amount of magicka as strife or force pulse on pts.
Only elemental weapon is cheaper now.

NyassaV · May 2018

Shut up and change strife

HuawaSepp wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

rileynotzb14_ESO wrote: »

Lol. More bad NBs crying for buffs. Nothing to see here. Move along.

I agree with you completely. This man is 100% posting biased polls instead of L2P.

Well this isn't technically L2P you are pre-judging this topic based on your previous experience with the the person who created this post. Concealed weapon is way too expensive for a melee spammable. It's the most expensive spammable in game. And it's the main reason why since the game was released I have pretty much always used strife as a spammable. the cost of concealed weapon makes it a horrible ability. The damage of this ability does not match the cost. For this ability to be viable for anything other than a speed bonus it needs it's cost decrease. magblades wishing to run this ability will need 2500 or more mag regen

It costs the exact same amount of magicka as strife or force pulse on pts.
Only elemental weapon is cheaper now.

YUP

And remember we have to buy that

ak_pvp · May 2018

NyassaV wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

To be completely honest, your threads start to trigger me. They’re extremely biased towards your inexperienced view on game balance and have no actual good suggestions in it.

You do realize what lowering the cost of concealed will do right? Melee magblades are strong enough in open world as it is, leave them be. Why the hell would you want to buff something that is already performing fine?

Buff something that preforms just fine? You talking about DKs too right?

I'm really just poking holes in stuff. Like the fact all ranged spammables should totally 100% be the cost of force pulse and melee is supposed to be cheaper yet this one oddly isn't and strife is getting screwed over anyways. I could care less if Con Weapon gets changed or not but it'd be nice since strife is getting screwed

Honestly a small cost reduction is almost a quality of life change rather than a buff and since strife is getting gutted Concealed Weapon could use a bit of love.

But whatever, believe what you like

Maybe remember that melee magblades are fine, and one of the strongest specs. Easily the strongest mag spec. even with "buffed" (really nerfed and partially unnerfed) DKs, and the weird gank sorc thing. Magblade also got a massive mobility buff with shade, since it can now be hidden behind LOS without anyone knowing where it is via hitting, which IMO is a fair buff that reflects the sneaky nature of an NB.

I don't even think strife needs a nerf, but concealed sure as hell doesn't need a buff, it has an instant from stealth stun+offbalance (10% extra damage from exploiter) and a nice extra speed buff, whilst having slightly higher tooltip damage than strife. You also got numerous buffs to merciless, which more than makes up for its increase.

thankyourat · May 2018

Yes

ak_pvp wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

To be completely honest, your threads start to trigger me. They’re extremely biased towards your inexperienced view on game balance and have no actual good suggestions in it.

You do realize what lowering the cost of concealed will do right? Melee magblades are strong enough in open world as it is, leave them be. Why the hell would you want to buff something that is already performing fine?

Buff something that preforms just fine? You talking about DKs too right?

I'm really just poking holes in stuff. Like the fact all ranged spammables should totally 100% be the cost of force pulse and melee is supposed to be cheaper yet this one oddly isn't and strife is getting screwed over anyways. I could care less if Con Weapon gets changed or not but it'd be nice since strife is getting screwed

Honestly a small cost reduction is almost a quality of life change rather than a buff and since strife is getting gutted Concealed Weapon could use a bit of love.

But whatever, believe what you like

Maybe remember that melee magblades are fine, and one of the strongest specs. Easily the strongest mag spec. even with "buffed" (really nerfed and partially unnerfed) DKs, and the weird gank sorc thing. Magblade also got a massive mobility buff with shade, since it can now be hidden behind LOS without anyone knowing where it is via hitting, which IMO is a fair buff that reflects the sneaky nature of an NB.

I don't even think strife needs a nerf, but concealed sure as hell doesn't need a buff, it has an instant from stealth stun+offbalance (10% extra damage from exploiter) and a nice extra speed buff, whilst having slightly higher tooltip damage than strife. You also got numerous buffs to merciless, which more than makes up for its increase.

I would have to strongly disagree melee magblade is one of the worst specs in my opinion. If you want to make an argument for destro magblade being top teir I can see that being reasonable for it's strengths when you play an actual dueling build, but duel weild magblade isn't really a thing and 2hand magblade is only a thing because of how prevalent root spam is. It makes the class less annoying to play solo. But if you compare concealed to something like whip it's underperforming. Also since destro magblade outclasses melee in basically every way there really is no point to play melee magblade. Honestly though even if concealed got it's cost lowered I would still probably play destro

mr_wazzabi · May 2018

Yes

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

To be completely honest, your threads start to trigger me. They’re extremely biased towards your inexperienced view on game balance and have no actual good suggestions in it.

You do realize what lowering the cost of concealed will do right? Melee magblades are strong enough in open world as it is, leave them be. Why the hell would you want to buff something that is already performing fine?

Buff something that preforms just fine? You talking about DKs too right?

I'm really just poking holes in stuff. Like the fact all ranged spammables should totally 100% be the cost of force pulse and melee is supposed to be cheaper yet this one oddly isn't and strife is getting screwed over anyways. I could care less if Con Weapon gets changed or not but it'd be nice since strife is getting screwed

Honestly a small cost reduction is almost a quality of life change rather than a buff and since strife is getting gutted Concealed Weapon could use a bit of love.

But whatever, believe what you like

Maybe remember that melee magblades are fine, and one of the strongest specs. Easily the strongest mag spec. even with "buffed" (really nerfed and partially unnerfed) DKs, and the weird gank sorc thing. Magblade also got a massive mobility buff with shade, since it can now be hidden behind LOS without anyone knowing where it is via hitting, which IMO is a fair buff that reflects the sneaky nature of an NB.

I don't even think strife needs a nerf, but concealed sure as hell doesn't need a buff, it has an instant from stealth stun+offbalance (10% extra damage from exploiter) and a nice extra speed buff, whilst having slightly higher tooltip damage than strife. You also got numerous buffs to merciless, which more than makes up for its increase.

I would have to strongly disagree melee magblade is one of the worst specs in my opinion. If you want to make an argument for destro magblade being top teir I can see that being reasonable for it's strengths when you play an actual dueling build, but duel weild magblade isn't really a thing and 2hand magblade is only a thing because of how prevalent root spam is. It makes the class less annoying to play solo. But if you compare concealed to something like whip it's underperforming. Also since destro magblade outclasses melee in basically every way there really is no point to play melee magblade. Honestly though even if concealed got it's cost lowered I would still probably play destro

Don't forget that a true melee magblade uses dw, so the light attack weaves hit like wet noodles. Unless they run with a staff, but that just looks weird

Juhasow · May 2018

No

Daus wrote: »

Both morphs.

Yeah lol because all we need is cheaper Supprise Attack. Seriously what is wrong with people playing nb's in this game ?

IZZEFlameLash · May 2018

No

I want every other class' main magicka spammable to cost as much as what NBs think concealed weapon should cost then.

NyassaV · May 2018

Shut up and change strife

ak_pvp wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

To be completely honest, your threads start to trigger me. They’re extremely biased towards your inexperienced view on game balance and have no actual good suggestions in it.

You do realize what lowering the cost of concealed will do right? Melee magblades are strong enough in open world as it is, leave them be. Why the hell would you want to buff something that is already performing fine?

Buff something that preforms just fine? You talking about DKs too right?

I'm really just poking holes in stuff. Like the fact all ranged spammables should totally 100% be the cost of force pulse and melee is supposed to be cheaper yet this one oddly isn't and strife is getting screwed over anyways. I could care less if Con Weapon gets changed or not but it'd be nice since strife is getting screwed

Honestly a small cost reduction is almost a quality of life change rather than a buff and since strife is getting gutted Concealed Weapon could use a bit of love.

But whatever, believe what you like

Maybe remember that melee magblades are fine, and one of the strongest specs. Easily the strongest mag spec. even with "buffed" (really nerfed and partially unnerfed) DKs, and the weird gank sorc thing. Magblade also got a massive mobility buff with shade, since it can now be hidden behind LOS without anyone knowing where it is via hitting, which IMO is a fair buff that reflects the sneaky nature of an NB.

I don't even think strife needs a nerf, but concealed sure as hell doesn't need a buff, it has an instant from stealth stun+offbalance (10% extra damage from exploiter) and a nice extra speed buff, whilst having slightly higher tooltip damage than strife. You also got numerous buffs to merciless, which more than makes up for its increase.

Why do you have exploiter on a magblade???? And in PvP at that!

Nicko_Lps · May 2018

No

I dont understand why you guys need sustain buff in the best sustaining class and the best dps class in this game.

Both stamina and magica nightblades have an amazing sustain,if you dont believe me download PTS and try to play other classes.ITs free max lvl-max cp all gear materials and consumables in your bags FREE.
Start testing sorcerer stamina/magica sustain and compare it with your nightblade.

1 test will convince you.

Avran_Sylt · May 2018

No

@NyassaV

Exploiter is good for burst damage. Nip someone with a CW + AW combo and it hits fairly hard, especially the 10% bonus damage from Exploiter. I imagine dumping into Thaum for Crippling Grasp for that situational bonus isn't that much of a overall damage loss.

Personally I have it split among Thaum, Piercing, and Mighty for my MagNB ganker. (Runs DW (Light attacks) + Incap)

Do you play Nightblade?

The Elder Scrolls Online

Reduce cost of Concealed Weapon

Reduce cost of Concealed Weapon 133 votes