Addressing Blazing Shield changes

elijafire · January 2018

GeneralSezme wrote: »

"Templar
Aedric Spear
Blazing Shield (Sun Shield morph): Reduced the amount of damage done by this morph to 33/36/39/42% of the damage absorbed by the shield, down from 50/51/52/53%.
Developer Comments:
Spoilerhide
Blazing Shield builds have proven to be extremely effective due to being able to stack Health to improve both their survivability and damage done. We’ve reduced the effectiveness of this ability so that there is more of an opportunity cost to having so much Health."

This is seriously the biggest problem they see in the game? It is already the hardest style to play to get any kills or AP on. The only anti-zerg skill in the game that can only kill anybody if there is no healers around. Having a lot of health does not mean you are a tank, there are a lot of unkillable tanks running around with less health, but there is no outrage there because just about everyone benefits from that, but the 1% of people who benefit from Blazing Shield builds are being made even harder to play because the 99% of zerglings on the forums complain about it.

Just about every decent players understanding of blazing shield is that it is an anti-zerg skill and people that are attacking them in large numbers should die in theory. In reality the more people on us the less damage we do because Breath of Life and Healing springs is ridiculously good even with the patch it will still be good.

If zos at least gave people attacking a blazing shield major defile or something I would be happy with that because we do zero damage with the presence of a mindless zerg healer

I also wish ZOS treated this forum like Blizzard forums, as in ignoring people who are whining and listening to those who actually have realistic changes or viewpoints of the game, people like me or Fengrush or Sypher are shunned by Zos for having their viewpoints while people crying here are winning, because if Blizzard did that to Starcraft or World of Warcraft the game would be broken because irrational people come up with irrational changes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEhACMnttJ8

Sometimes I wonder if they even play their own game LOL! They been doing pointless, unnecessary and illogical nerfs to niche builds that aren't even close to a problem or OP for 3+ years now

technohic · January 2018

Thread back from the dead. Its sad as I don't ever see trollplars any more and the days of blazing shield being useful on any build outside of that has been dead since like before even console launch.

DoctorESO · January 2018

.

GeneralSezme · January 2018

technohic wrote: »

Thread back from the dead. Its sad as I don't ever see trollplars any more and the days of blazing shield being useful on any build outside of that has been dead since like before even console launch.

The dream is still alive!

Elsterchen · January 2018

pts patch notes v3.3.0:

Bone Wall and Spinal Surge (Bone Shield & morphs)

The prompt will now be available up to 6 seconds after Bone Shield is cast, even if the Bone Shield caster’s damage shield is removed.
Grants a damage shield for 100% of your Max Health for 6 seconds, instead of 60% of your Max Health for 10 seconds.
Developer Comments:
Spoiler

We’ve shortened the duration of this damage shield to match the duration of all other damage shields in the game, but increased the value of the shield to compensate.

If an ally uses the synergy and applies the damage shield to you, you will now also be placed on cooldown for that synergy.
The Spinal Surge synergy from the Bone Surge morph now grants Major Vitality instead of Minor Vitality.

Well, another templar skill nerfed to be shelved away for good.

@devs: Who will use this skill when bone shield from undaunted skill line does the same just better at less ressource cost and additionally offers synergies for allies?

@ZOS_GinaBruno, i would really appricate it if someone would take time to explain this. The changes to sun shield compared to bone shield do not make sense imho.

Minno · January 2018

technohic wrote: »

Thread back from the dead. Its sad as I don't ever see trollplars any more and the days of blazing shield being useful on any build outside of that has been dead since like before even console launch.

Throwback:

NoFlash · January 2018

oh i miss this. templars are only healtanks now

Girl_Number8 · January 2018

Elsterchen wrote: »

pts patch notes v3.3.0:

Bone Wall and Spinal Surge (Bone Shield & morphs)

The prompt will now be available up to 6 seconds after Bone Shield is cast, even if the Bone Shield caster’s damage shield is removed.
Grants a damage shield for 100% of your Max Health for 6 seconds, instead of 60% of your Max Health for 10 seconds.
Developer Comments:
Spoiler

We’ve shortened the duration of this damage shield to match the duration of all other damage shields in the game, but increased the value of the shield to compensate.

If an ally uses the synergy and applies the damage shield to you, you will now also be placed on cooldown for that synergy.
The Spinal Surge synergy from the Bone Surge morph now grants Major Vitality instead of Minor Vitality.

Well, another templar skill nerfed to be shelved away for good.

@devs: Who will use this skill when bone shield from undaunted skill line does the same just better at less ressource cost and additionally offers synergies for allies?

@ZOS_GinaBruno, i would really appricate it if someone would take time to explain this. The changes to sun shield compared to bone shield do not make sense imho.

They don't want diversity....makes it easier for them, worse for us.

Elsterchen · January 2018

@Girl_Number8 ... I don't agree. I guess its just that no-one in the dev-departement really knows templar skills (at least thats my impression from last years templar nerfs). Hence the changes and similarities of actually suppoed-to-be-special-class-skills to weapon/armor or simply "every-ones-favourite"-skills simply go unnoticed.

Imho, knowing a class and how to play it is essential to balance classes, truely engaged players like joy or cinbri prove this every patch. However, its not a players "job" to provide all data for zeni, its awesome they do some testing, but actually their "job" should be to play the game. To me the similarities of boneshield and sun shield are striking and while the later has been nerfed to the ground the other largely remained untouched. Troll-health-shield-builds (the reason for sun shield nerfs) can be build around bone shield (given its similarity in function as well as the simple fact that the main ressource for these builds is health) just the way they used to be build around sun shield.

Maybe its just my viewpoint, but from this perspective it just doesn't make sense to keep sun shield nerfed while a guild skill with similar function and mechanic offers everything sun shield used to offer and more, for less ressources. Adding to it, it just hurts to have class skills that are second best compared to skills everone can use.

FoulSnowpaw · January 2018

If everyone would be wise enough to know that Blazing Shields does cost magicka, so it limits the health potential anyways. And since the Morrowind Nerfing Spree, sustain has been crap.

With all the CCs, aoes, ranged abilities, potion drains, and heal effects, blazing shield really has no impact other than players being dumb trying to ignore the counterplay and just dish out free damage.

And if you see a shining Templar in PVP with blazing shield and know what it does why would you stack damage? If you don't know what it does then that's your loss, because that's clearly the counterplay in it, crowd control.
(The nerf was completely made to benefit pvp only without a doubt and non-disputable)

Blazing Shields should be buffed back up at some point, because it literally has lost it's potential.

Ultimate_Overlord · January 2018

Yeah its sad and all, but its really bad game design when a bunch of terrible players spamming 1 skill can get wiped by an equally terrible player spamming 1 skill.

GeneralSezme · January 2018

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

Yeah its sad and all, but its really bad game design when a bunch of terrible players spamming 1 skill can get wiped by an equally terrible player spamming 1 skill.

Gross false equivalence

raknorok · January 2018

7 months later, I'm over it. It's still fun to play. The more experienced players are always gonna ignore you or save you for last anyway. ZoS isnt gonna do anything to improve a build like this, if they did we'd all be running around in gold bubbles not doing anything.

If your still wanting to play this you need to complement your team mates, your not a massive damage dealer, your a support/debuff tank and your probably still gonna be ignored and saved for last.

fxeconomisteb17_ESO · April 2018

I can't play the blazeplar. I just can't. The damage is too crappy due to the double nerf from Battle Spirit. One half from their damage arrives on the shield, the shield returns almost a half (42%) and Battle Spirit will halve it again when it returns it to them. So damage return is 0.5*0.42*0.5 = 10.5%...

Mr_Nobody · April 2018

fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »

I can't play the blazeplar. I just can't. The damage is too crappy due to the double nerf from Battle Spirit. One half from their damage arrives on the shield, the shield returns almost a half (42%) and Battle Spirit will halve it again when it returns it to them. So damage return is 0.5*0.42*0.5 = 10.5%...

Dont worry, they are most likely going to nerf it again because some 94CP guy died to it in Cyrodiil.

WillhelmBlack · April 2018

They should just delete it if they don't want anyone to use it.

Ender1310 · May 2018

I don't see why the change. Literally did no damage unless damaged. You could ignore as the last target and gang bang from range if you wanted. I thought it made hi health tanky characters viable.

Vilestride · May 2018

Does anyone else miss the days when Blazing shield was simply just a good damage shield and defensive ability any Templar could use, and not have to have 40k + health? When the damage from it was by no means OP but was that little extra piece you could fit into your combo with maybe a mid air dark flare and toppling charge that actually took some precision (granted that toppling charge back then had a 40/60 success/fail rate and you probably just got animation locked). When it wasn't nearly as good a defensive shield as say a sorcs hardened ward but it had the advantage of being dangerous in close quarters, as is in line with the class identity?

When it gave way more viability to running light armour on a class that moves about as fast as a one armed rower, and rightfully so, every class needs a weakness, movement is templar's and that is fine, but balance means weakness compensation.

IMO making it health based was the worst thing to happen to it and pigeon holed it to a far to specific build. So no, I don't feel bad that they are nerfing the damage for health based builds, I feel bad that they gave the skill to health based builds in the first place.

technohic · May 2018

Vilestride wrote: »

Does anyone else miss the days when Blazing shield was simply just a good damage shield and defensive ability any Templar could use, and not have to have 40k + health? When the damage from it was by no means OP but was that little extra piece you could fit into your combo with maybe a mid air dark flare and toppling charge that actually took some precision (granted that toppling charge back then had a 40/60 success/fail rate and you probably just got animation locked). When it wasn't nearly as good a defensive shield as say a sorcs hardened ward but it had the advantage of being dangerous in close quarters, as is in line with the class identity?

When it gave way more viability to running light armour on a class that moves about as fast as a one armed rower, and rightfully so, every class needs a weakness, movement is templar's and that is fine, but balance means weakness compensation.

IMO making it health based was the worst thing to happen to it and pigeon holed it to a far to specific build. So no, I don't feel bad that they are nerfing the damage for health based builds, I feel bad that they gave the skill to health based builds in the first place.

Thought it was health based then. It just got hit hardest when they put shield reduction in BS to address magicka shields.

Yeah I miss it. Solar barrage was actually a useful morph as it’s PBAOE although as weak as ever, complimented blazing shield burst. Not to mention it empowered it. It truly was a class identity that would have fit the Templar house thing but was long gone before that comment was made except for health stackers, who are also now gone.

Templars identity now is the annoying heal bot everyone loathes yet all that is left save a few die hards. As they keep extending that role to other classes, it’s just a matter of time till it’s just a generic class with little flavor

GeneralSezme · May 2018

Vilestride wrote: »

Does anyone else miss the days when Blazing shield was simply just a good damage shield and defensive ability any Templar could use, and not have to have 40k + health? When the damage from it was by no means OP but was that little extra piece you could fit into your combo with maybe a mid air dark flare and toppling charge that actually took some precision (granted that toppling charge back then had a 40/60 success/fail rate and you probably just got animation locked). When it wasn't nearly as good a defensive shield as say a sorcs hardened ward but it had the advantage of being dangerous in close quarters, as is in line with the class identity?

When it gave way more viability to running light armour on a class that moves about as fast as a one armed rower, and rightfully so, every class needs a weakness, movement is templar's and that is fine, but balance means weakness compensation.

IMO making it health based was the worst thing to happen to it and pigeon holed it to a far to specific build. So no, I don't feel bad that they are nerfing the damage for health based builds, I feel bad that they gave the skill to health based builds in the first place.

I don’t agree with your last statement I think they should keep blazing shield based on health and make the other morph,Radiant Ward I think it is called, how you want it instead of 2 lack luster skills

The uniqueness of the skilll and builds should be preserved to stand out among mmos while providing a useful tool to those that doesnt want to specialize too much into one area

Soris · May 2018

Oh man I'm enjoying these ancient pvp videos these days.
Watch this to remember how was the Templar House before. Best skills templar had Blazing Shield, Blinding Flashes and Blazing Spears stun, all gone. RIP to all.

Our house is nohing more than a tent nowadays...

Kudos to publisher. Watch the whole thing but especially dont miss the fight at 5:20.

https://youtu.be/3tkzV55X0n8?t=5m20s

YOU HAVE GUTTED THE ENTIRE CLASS
Blazing Shield, Blinding Flashes, Blazing Spear stun, Major Mending, cheap 3 target Breath of Life, crit modifiers for heals....
ALL GONE.

And they keep saying that word "building the house to keep enemy at bay" With what? purify and focus?? Are you kidding us? There is no House left. There is nothing left in Da House to punish bullying enemy who dares to enter our Houses. The enemy will always cast Forward Momentum or drink a speed potion to overcome the last little thing left in our houses, the snare. LoL. That's how pathetic the state is about Templar House right now.

Minno · May 2018

Soris wrote: »

Oh man I'm enjoying these ancient pvp videos these days.
Watch this to remember how was the Templar House before. Best skills templar had Blazing Shield, Blinding Flashes and Blazing Spears stun, all gone. RIP to all. Our house is nohing more than a tent nowadays...

Kudos to publisher. Watch the whole thing but especially dont miss the fight at 5:20.
https://youtu.be/3tkzV55X0n8?t=5m20s

YOU HAVE GUTTED THE ENTIRE CLASS
Blazing Shield, Blinding Flashes, Blazing Spear stun, Major Mending, cheap 3 target Breath of Life, crit modifiers for heals....
ALL GONE.

And they keep saying that word "building the house to keep enemy at bay" With what? purify and focus?? Are you kidding us? There is no House left. There is nothing left in Da House to punish bullying enemy who dares to enter our Houses. The enemy will always cast Forward Momentum or drink a speed potion to overcome the last little thing left in our houses, the snare. LoL. That's how pathetic the state is about Templar House right now.

Divine Cross was the best example of a non-healbots Templar. But even he had issues with Templars that we still mention as problems lol.

dsalter · May 2018

GeneralSezme wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Add me to the list of people who does not mind seeing that terrible play style nerfed.

Only Zerglings are the ones that don't like it because it actually makes them think about what they are doing. Ironically zerglings say it is a terrible play style.

Any decent player has no problem with a Blazing Shield.

KingYogi415 wrote: »

This change was needed months ago. Runing 70k health and only spamming one button is not a real playstyle.

I use all 12 of my skills frequently, if you just spam Blazing shield you will run out of magicka, and you will do no damage because you actually have to wait for damage to be done to the shield for it to do anything.

i run blazing and 5 vicious death set on my kamakaziplar. then i just max out health+small bit of regen to cover shield spam cost, then just throw myself under the zerg wheels.
not great but it does a bunch of damage when my teamies are using inevitable det spam from a range

Wreuntzylla · May 2018

Vilestride wrote: »

Does anyone else miss the days when Blazing shield was simply just a good damage shield and defensive ability any Templar could use, and not have to have 40k + health? When the damage from it was by no means OP but was that little extra piece you could fit into your combo with maybe a mid air dark flare and toppling charge that actually took some precision (granted that toppling charge back then had a 40/60 success/fail rate and you probably just got animation locked). When it wasn't nearly as good a defensive shield as say a sorcs hardened ward but it had the advantage of being dangerous in close quarters, as is in line with the class identity?

When it gave way more viability to running light armour on a class that moves about as fast as a one armed rower, and rightfully so, every class needs a weakness, movement is templar's and that is fine, but balance means weakness compensation.

IMO making it health based was the worst thing to happen to it and pigeon holed it to a far to specific build. So no, I don't feel bad that they are nerfing the damage for health based builds, I feel bad that they gave the skill to health based builds in the first place.

I miss blinding light.

GeneralSezme · May 2018

dsalter wrote: »

GeneralSezme wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Add me to the list of people who does not mind seeing that terrible play style nerfed.

Only Zerglings are the ones that don't like it because it actually makes them think about what they are doing. Ironically zerglings say it is a terrible play style.

Any decent player has no problem with a Blazing Shield.

KingYogi415 wrote: »

This change was needed months ago. Runing 70k health and only spamming one button is not a real playstyle.

I use all 12 of my skills frequently, if you just spam Blazing shield you will run out of magicka, and you will do no damage because you actually have to wait for damage to be done to the shield for it to do anything.

i run blazing and 5 vicious death set on my kamakaziplar. then i just max out health+small bit of regen to cover shield spam cost, then just throw myself under the zerg wheels.
not great but it does a bunch of damage when my teamies are using inevitable det spam from a range

Yeah never used vd cuz the tooltip is too low and after blazing shield tooltip nerf it's just worse

Stibbons · May 2018

I havent even seen blazing shield in wvw in months. Even then it was just one time. That tells it all.

Minno · May 2018

They should make one morph stamina cost and final damage scale off stamina. (Including the scaling changes mentioned in this thread).

DoctorESO · May 2018

Maybe the skill should be renamed to Shielding Blaze?

Soris · May 2018

Minno wrote: »

They should make one morph stamina cost and final damage scale off stamina. (Including the scaling changes mentioned in this thread).

Would love stamina blazing shield
#BringBackStamplar1.5

Minno · May 2018

Soris wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

They should make one morph stamina cost and final damage scale off stamina. (Including the scaling changes mentioned in this thread).

Would love stamina blazing shield
#BringBackStamplar1.5

We kinda already have it with bone shield. But no one should have to use that crap over class abilities. Radiant ward can be the stamina morph, since the other one is for niche health builds.