Addressing Blazing Shield changes

Juli'St

GeneralSezme wrote: »

"Templar
Aedric Spear
Blazing Shield (Sun Shield morph): Reduced the amount of damage done by this morph to 33/36/39/42% of the damage absorbed by the shield, down from 50/51/52/53%.
Developer Comments:
Spoilerhide
Blazing Shield builds have proven to be extremely effective due to being able to stack Health to improve both their survivability and damage done. We’ve reduced the effectiveness of this ability so that there is more of an opportunity cost to having so much Health."

This is seriously the biggest problem they see in the game? It is already the hardest style to play to get any kills or AP on. The only anti-zerg skill in the game that can only kill anybody if there is no healers around. Having a lot of health does not mean you are a tank, there are a lot of unkillable tanks running around with less health, but there is no outrage there because just about everyone benefits from that, but the 1% of people who benefit from Blazing Shield builds are being made even harder to play because the 99% of zerglings on the forums complain about it.

Just about every decent players understanding of blazing shield is that it is an anti-zerg skill and people that are attacking them in large numbers should die in theory. In reality the more people on us the less damage we do because Breath of Life and Healing springs is ridiculously good even with the patch it will still be good.

If zos at least gave people attacking a blazing shield major defile or something I would be happy with that because we do zero damage with the presence of a mindless zerg healer

I also wish ZOS treated this forum like Blizzard forums, as in ignoring people who are whining and listening to those who actually have realistic changes or viewpoints of the game, people like me or Fengrush or Sypher are shunned by Zos for having their viewpoints while people crying here are winning, because if Blizzard did that to Starcraft or World of Warcraft the game would be broken because irrational people come up with irrational changes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEhACMnttJ8

byebye trolls build's! #ZOS_SAVE_PVP #ZOS_NERF #ZOS_NERF_TROLL_build

pieratsos

winterbornb14_ESO wrote: »

I think we all can conclude that Pieratos is just trolling and arguing due to some anger and educational issues he has.

Go back and read please.

Point is again, it was a undeserved sneaky Nerf to a already heavily Nerfed class that effects the larger PvE player base due to a niche situation in PvP.

Considering the fact that u said 30*72000/100/2 = 1500 id say that you are the one with educational issues.
And considering the fact that you are calling this a PVE nerf id say that you are the one trolling.

Next time leave testing for people who actually know how this game works since you have no clue. And maybe stay out of PVP discussions since you dont PVP at all. We are done here.

GeneralSezme

RIP diversity

Arbitrator

There you go again nerfing something that didnt need to be nerfed. If people are stacking health, guess what? That means they do NO damage. You can't just spam Blazing Shield without running out of mana because you have to let Blazing Shield run its course until it explodes.

How *** dense can a video game development team be? If someone is stacking health, they are built as a tank! They don't do any damage anyways lol. You are going to nerf something that doesn't even need to have time spent on it!

How about you take your time to rework the Templar skill lines so we can have a dedicated Tanking tree please! Such bull ***.

GeneralSezme

So to sum up the great points made in this thread

Summarizing a bunch of reply's into bullets

• This was a sneaky nerf came that was never given the opportunity to be tested in PTS
• "The opportunity cost for stacking health for Blazing shield was that none of you other abillities don't do any damage" and you have a low magicka and stam pool
• Opportunity cost is that you have to wear sets that boost your max health instead of sustain or damage
• Another Opportunity cost is that you have to double slot entropy and Blazing shield (in case it's laggy and you cn't switch bars) on both bars
• Depending how your armor is set up you can lose 15% of your health just switching bars, even if your health is the same on the other bar
• "This nerf discourages diversity"
• Blazing Shield builds were already nerfed heavily before the patch with sustain changed and no more reduce cost tree in cp
• major mending nerfed already
• Already least utilized tank build in PvE
• Blazing Shield builds do not make use of block, and there are plenty of more tanky builds out there that are more survivable and use block all the time and have less health

@ZOS_GinaBruno is this enough to warrant a roll back on this change? Because the developers commentary for this change makes no sense at all, would be nice to have some real feedback on this, we aren't trying to tear your head off.

Dr_Ganknstein

Guess I'll roll a cookie cutter gank blade. Pvp is pretty much just Nightblade gankers and Destro ultimate farm groups now adays anyway. Looks like its time for me to move on to another mmo.

I'm sick of 90% of the NBs running around doing massive damage and healing to full with Vigor over and over. How is that not high damage and high defensive sustain? They get free purge from my dots when they stealth. Groups? They just build ultimate and bomb with Eye of whatever, rinse and repeat. Funny how they left that OPness in the game and gave the Warden a great counter with their healing ultimate. You know what though, don't worry about it because I already cancelled and deleted the game.

Baconlad

Ok....so even though the post has been semi necroed, and ive said my piece before im going to comment again, i cant help it.

After morrowind dropped, i played the build again...and ill tell you somthing real jacked up, ZOS was REALLY smart to nerf blazing shield.

With the frontloading of CP, the addition of new damage CP (that blazing shield damage DOES in fact get increased by), blazing shield, while running the EXACT same gear loadout as before morrowind, and having CPs roughly even between the other damage CP stars....

The damage of blazing shield remains unchanged. For my build and its average hits, im accually hitting slightly less than 1k MORE on average.

On PTS, i was getting 78% of the shield to explode due to master at arms. Now i am getting the same percentage as before update.

Now that tooltip value doesnt take into account new frontloaded crit resist/ penetration CPs. So...

In conclusion the only thing i have noticed as a direct nerf to the build in general is that i now have to choose whether or not i want to add blessed into my CP spread, which isnt bad. I think thats a great decision to be made. As all toons have to decide that as well. So for any bitching and moaning i may have said before...i retract it all, the build is only slightly less effective than before due to regen nerfs...zeni knew we were doing a perfect amount of damage when maxed into health and didnt want to make it higher damage, it also blows for all of the blazing shield builds which were less specced into health, and more of a half and half damage/ blazing shield build. I imagine they were hit harder, and also BS builds in no CP environments. Even though the damage absorbed remains the same roughly.

Baconlad

Oh and i will also say i AM NOT running the build anymore, i may do so again in the future, but have gone for a more direct damage magick DPS PvP build.

Also to note, the blazing shield CAP in PvE remains untouched...its still there and as irritating as ever, more than 20k health is wasted when building blazing shield for PVE (damage for shield is capped in PvE while damage absorbed is not)

GeneralSezme

Baconlad wrote: »

Ok....so even though the post has been semi necroed, and ive said my piece before im going to comment again, i cant help it.

After morrowind dropped, i played the build again...and ill tell you somthing real jacked up, ZOS was REALLY smart to nerf blazing shield.

With the frontloading of CP, the addition of new damage CP (that blazing shield damage DOES in fact get increased by), blazing shield, while running the EXACT same gear loadout as before morrowind, and having CPs roughly even between the other damage CP stars....

The damage of blazing shield remains unchanged. For my build and its average hits, im accually hitting slightly less than 1k MORE on average.

On PTS, i was getting 78% of the shield to explode due to master at arms. Now i am getting the same percentage as before update.

Now that tooltip value doesnt take into account new frontloaded crit resist/ penetration CPs. So...

In conclusion the only thing i have noticed as a direct nerf to the build in general is that i now have to choose whether or not i want to add blessed into my CP spread, which isnt bad. I think thats a great decision to be made. As all toons have to decide that as well. So for any bitching and moaning i may have said before...i retract it all, the build is only slightly less effective than before due to regen nerfs...zeni knew we were doing a perfect amount of damage when maxed into health and didnt want to make it higher damage, it also blows for all of the blazing shield builds which were less specced into health, and more of a half and half damage/ blazing shield build. I imagine they were hit harder, and also BS builds in no CP environments. Even though the damage absorbed remains the same roughly.

Master-at-arms is halved in pvp, the highest I can get my tooltip is about 53% last I checked if you are actually getting it that high I have no clue how, I tried playing it a lot, not only damage is lower, recovery is terrible. There are probably more things I have forgotten to mention but that is only because I haven't played ESO in a long time.

Baconlad

On PTS for morrowind i was geting that high tooltip...im sorry you can only get 53% live...bummer

Ihatenightblades

Ahh the good ol "eso should be more like blizzard"

NoFlash

Is this playstyle dead?

Baconlad

Yup. Nerf after nerf. The most niche skill and build in the game, stacking 75k health has been under fire for over a year. Nail in the coffin was a 10 nerf to its damage...

Qbiken

Baconlad wrote: »

Yup. Nerf after nerf. The most niche skill and build in the game, stacking 75k health has been under fire for over a year. Nail in the coffin was a 10 nerf to its damage...

Never understood the nerfs.....an extreme niche playstyle that was kinda easy to counter tbh...

Baconlad

Kinda?

AnviOfVai

I only play my blazing shield char when there are loads of zergs going around, like someone has mentioned before it is one of the best builds to counteract zergs in cyrodiil. I can't dish out even enough damage to kill anyone, only to hold my ground and wait for backup, I also use all my skills on my bar. I'm not a fan of this nerf at all, not until zergs in cyrodiil are cut down.

NoFlash

That's really unfortunate that this is gone. If I want to be a Templar tank, a healbot tank is all I can be...

dodgehopper_ESO

I still want Templars to feel like the Knights they should be. Its fine you have the Priestly side of the class, but where are the Knights? Where's all those Balanced Warriors? I don't like the way the Templar class is intended to be a high burst low energy class. It just doesn't fly with the theme - at all.

Tan9oSuccka

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

GeneralSezme wrote: »

I also wish ZOS treated this forum like Blizzard forums, as in ignoring people who are whining and listening to those who actually have realistic changes or viewpoints of the game, people like me or Fengrush or Sypher...

Who are you...?

Would be cool to make the skill viable for templars who don't stack everything into health to troll people. Until that happens though, delete the skill for all I care.

I thought the same thing. Who?

Listening and balancing solely based on the yolo swag streamer crowd is a terrible idea.

Wreuntzylla

Qbiken wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

Yup. Nerf after nerf. The most niche skill and build in the game, stacking 75k health has been under fire for over a year. Nail in the coffin was a 10 nerf to its damage...

Never understood the nerfs.....an extreme niche playstyle that was kinda easy to counter tbh...

To be fair, when solo, the build was only counterable by ignoring the player or by a few players in tandem that all know what not to do.

Further, solo or even small scale massacres weren't what got the blazepar nerfed. Ultimately it was the strength of the group you could build around a blazespar. They blazepar's purpose was never to kill anyone, but rather (1) for dictating the type of fight; and (2) as a softening agent for group DPS.

We usually ran 4-8, and seeing a group 2-3x our size with 3-4 destro ulti bombers in front always brought a tear of joy to my eye. There is nothing like an AoE that can't be stopped and continues during a stun to make your day.

GeneralSezme

EvoAZN wrote: »

That's really unfortunate that this is gone. If I want to be a Templar tank, a healbot tank is all I can be...

Wow I didn't know this thread was still alive

But yeah, healbot tanks are definitely harder to kill than a blazing shield templar if they are built right because we have close to 0 inpen because we have to go all infused.

Changing the amount of damage the skill does does not even address the problem of tanks, tanks aren't unkillable I would rather have unkillable tanks running around than groups of 80 versus 80 field fights taking turns mowing each other down in 200+ ping.

Baconlad

Why would you go all infused?

Impen is better. Atleast on small pieces. The thing is, ur shields going to go down, you dont have good reliable healing, youd rather take less damage when not shielded then have 200 more shield strength

ezeepeezee

Baconlad wrote: »

Why would you go all infused?

Impen is better. Atleast on small pieces. The thing is, ur shields going to go down, you dont have good reliable healing, youd rather take less damage when not shielded then have 200 more shield strength

You go infused on big pieces for +~1500 health/stam with Hakeijos. You can make up for the missing impen with CP. And shields nullify crit, so it balances out more or less.

ak_pvp

Make blazing shield return 100% of damage taken. Sustain is rip now so make them true zerg bombers.

Minno

ezeepeezee wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

Why would you go all infused?

Impen is better. Atleast on small pieces. The thing is, ur shields going to go down, you dont have good reliable healing, youd rather take less damage when not shielded then have 200 more shield strength

You go infused on big pieces for +~1500 health/stam with Hakeijos. You can make up for the missing impen with CP. And shields nullify crit, so it balances out more or less.

Divines+ health mundas instead?
Then DMG enchants+ eye ghoul food to help boost the mag DMG?

Either way, I don't think they intended BS to be your dominant defense. Though, it needs to be a cheaper cost since it scales poorly now (1300 each cast). Also radiant ward needs to scale off max mag; would allow better defensive options for Templars, especially for those that use frost staff blocking.

FearlessOne_2014

Erock25 wrote: »

GeneralSezme wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Add me to the list of people who does not mind seeing that terrible play style nerfed.

Only Zerglings are the ones that don't like it because it actually makes them think about what they are doing. Ironically zerglings say it is a terrible play style.

Any decent player has no problem with a Blazing Shield.

KingYogi415 wrote: »

This change was needed months ago. Runing 70k health and only spamming one button is not a real playstyle.

I use all 12 of my skills frequently, if you just spam Blazing shield you will run out of magicka, and you will do no damage because you actually have to wait for damage to be done to the shield for it to do anything.

Problem? No problem. I just think it's cheesey and low skill.

Just like zergling down solo players, amiright? Or is that a high skill playstyle that's not cheesy at all?

ak_pvp

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

GeneralSezme wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Add me to the list of people who does not mind seeing that terrible play style nerfed.

Only Zerglings are the ones that don't like it because it actually makes them think about what they are doing. Ironically zerglings say it is a terrible play style.

Any decent player has no problem with a Blazing Shield.

KingYogi415 wrote: »

This change was needed months ago. Runing 70k health and only spamming one button is not a real playstyle.

I use all 12 of my skills frequently, if you just spam Blazing shield you will run out of magicka, and you will do no damage because you actually have to wait for damage to be done to the shield for it to do anything.

Problem? No problem. I just think it's cheesey and low skill.

Just like zergling down solo players, amiright? Or is that a high skill playstyle that's not cheesy at all?

Zergbads, when will they learn.

The one light attack they put towards a kill with 23+ other players really gives a sense of pride and accomplishment.

GeneralSezme

Baconlad wrote: »

Why would you go all infused?

Impen is better. Atleast on small pieces. The thing is, ur shields going to go down, you dont have good reliable healing, youd rather take less damage when not shielded then have 200 more shield strength

Because every bit of health is important, and you can't crit shields, so most the time you are not being critted and if you are it's a very small portion of your health lost, and vampire drain and absorb magic are decent heals (based on % health) as long as you buff your self with mending etc. Of course if you want to sacrifice damage for a little more survivabillity of course it is viable, no more than just stacking as much health as possible.

ak_pvp wrote: »

Make blazing shield return 100% of damage taken. Sustain is rip now so make them true zerg bombers.

Would be fun but I would just like a roll back on the change because the way it was previously the only people you can kill with blazing shield are light armor new players that don't wear crit resist or shields have no self heal or a Zerg healer near by. Very rare circumstance considering how overpowered Zerg healing is in Cyrodiil. Now it's just... well, you are there, and now there is knight slayer and new sets to counter tanks I don't understand why this was a necessary change

GeneralSezme

GeneralSezme wrote: »

So to sum up the great points made in this thread

Summarizing a bunch of reply's into bullets

• This was a sneaky nerf came that was never given the opportunity to be tested in PTS
• "The opportunity cost for stacking health for Blazing shield was that none of you other abillities don't do any damage" and you have a low magicka and stam pool
• Opportunity cost is that you have to wear sets that boost your max health instead of sustain or damage
• Another Opportunity cost is that you have to double slot entropy and Blazing shield (in case it's laggy and you cn't switch bars) on both bars
• Depending how your armor is set up you can lose 15% of your health just switching bars, even if your health is the same on the other bar
• "This nerf discourages diversity"
• Blazing Shield builds were already nerfed heavily before the patch with sustain changed and no more reduce cost tree in cp
• major mending nerfed already
• Already least utilized tank build in PvE
• Blazing Shield builds do not make use of block, and there are plenty of more tanky builds out there that are more survivable and use block all the time and have less health

@ZOS_GinaBruno is this enough to warrant a roll back on this change? Because the developers commentary for this change makes no sense at all, would be nice to have some real feedback on this, we aren't trying to tear your head off.

More points:

• Healbots and block tanks are still a problem in Cyrodiil, countless examples and players I can name (Would take a whole new thread)
• Mindless healing such as just spamming Healing Springs over and over again in one spot is too overpowered for the amount of skill and how little magicka it cost to do. 1 Healing Spring costs way less than 1 Blazing shield but outheals the damage of it easily
• New sets and counters to this build, such as Knight Slayer
• Most susceptible tank build to Negate, roots and CC due to it's lack of mobility lack of stamina (at most 12k) and due to it being a magicka build, albeit a low magicka pool build (at most 16K). In my opinion a fair "opportunity cost" so it is called by @ZOS_GinaBruno, for the health you have to stack into it
  One last thing I thought of before I think I am done complaining for now. Guard is a great skill lots of strategy with it, requires cooperation communication and teamwork to use it properly. In my opinion I believe players complain about Blazing Shield builds because it makes use of this skill the most of all tank builds in Cyrodiil. I think a good compromise for rolling back the Blazing Shield tool-tip % damage is to nerf the amount of damage Guard mitigates because all we use guard for is the extra crit damage (the only way to change the maximum amount of damage the ability can do, spell damage does not affect it)
  
  Closing Statements:
  After months of this change I have seen 0 Blazing Shields in Cyrodiil anymore and I am back on the forum because I really miss playing mine, it was really the most unique build in any MMO or any game really nothing to my knowledge could compare to it (Let me know if I'm wrong about this). It is a robust build, very squishy when overwhelmed but the damage it dealt was based on the damage it took, using the limited amount of abilities on your bar you try to survive in the bitterest of fights for as long as possible, you take your stand in a position that allows you to survive the longest (in a choke or small corridor) and when the fight is over it is gratifying to take a player or 2 with you when you are holding off against 6,7,8,9,10 times your numbers, that is one of the most unique builds in the game and the game should be encouraging more diversity.
  
  A brief statement from @ZOS_GinaBruno, would be nice as the patch notes are not sufficient warrant for this change.
  
  Thanks for reading!

GeneralSezme

I don't know why this posted twice I'm not spamming, please delete as I cannot