Please stop saying things are hard to get (achievements, weapons, farming, crafting, etc.).

Dragonnord · May 2018

Hello everyone,

In reading the forums through the last few months, I just wanted to express that some things just need to be hard to get, even if it's based on player skills or on time invested.

Personally, I'm... (don't want to use word "tired"), let's say I'm saturated hearing nerf this, nerf that, make veteran trials easier, make DLC vet dungeons easier, make vet Maelstrom easier, make vet Dragonstar easier, make some delves/bosses in Craglorn easier, make this achievement easier, make jewelry farming easier, make this item so we can buy it directly, make this so if I get it with one toon it counts for my other 14 toons, and so a long list of etceteras with a lot of different things in the game.

I mean, why EVERYONE has to have EVERYTHING just like that? Without any considerable effort?

Why some people work their a*ses off to get a Legendary Moondancer Ring and so someone that doesn't want to learn, improve or make a real effort, just collects a few mats, improve a blue ring and gets the Legendary one without doing anything other than waiting some days for research traits and picking up a few mats? That was an example with jewelry since it's the "request of the moment", to lower amount of mats.

Why you want vet Maelstrom arena to become easier than what it is once you finish it? Believe me; after you finish it for the first time, you will complete it 1000 more times if you want. I've seen pro players finishing it as well as friends and guildies that are not that good at all (with all due respect to them).

If a skin is hard to get, why asking to nerf the dungeon/trial/boss/mechanics so it can be obtained easily? If a weapon is hard to get, why asking to nerf the content so it can be wielded easily too?

Again, personally, I prefer challenges, solo or in group, but real challenges.

If you need 10x more mats to improve rings, then so be it. If you need to practice, get better, learn and adapt to get a skin or weapon, then so be it.

Is anyone here in a hurry? I don't think so. So play, enjoy the game guys. There are a lot of things in real life that we can't get, that we won't get, ever... and believe me, here, in TESO, if you work for it, you can get it; everything. Well... maybe the Radiant Apex mounts, but it's OK, I don't like to see everyone with the same stuff. Some things just need to be exclusive.

I remember when people were dressing all the same, but nowadays you don't see not even one player dressed exactly the same as another player. Original and unique things. I love that!

Please, don't ask to nerf stuff so things can be obtained easily.

Thank you.

Beardimus · May 2018

Sadly folks round here are very entitled and want it all immediately. Sod longevity they want it all now.

But i hear you.

Aliyavana · May 2018

Ikr? Like if they want vma weapons they should earn it.

Septimus_Magna · May 2018

I agree for the most part, sometimes its just annoying that achievements like kill 100 mobs in dungeon X or collect monster trophies are character bound. I like to play multiple characters but am not motivated to do so when it comes to certain achievements.

And about vMA I am a bit buyist, I farmed it for nearly a month and still havent got one of two weapons I needed. Its not that hard but it does get boring very quickly.

Dungeon and trail difficulty are pretty well balanced if you actually understand the mechanics. Its easy to say nerf something but most people dont even do the research to understand what they should be doing to defeat a certain boss.

DamenAJ · May 2018

Some things really are too hard, like... The last boss in vet falkreath hold. I think stuff like that, and some of the other vet DLC stuff, should be made easier, BUT, their hardcore mode made harder.

Whereas some things... Like... Grinding for jewellery crafting.... Dude. That's just effort. It's not having to co-ordinate with other people, and continuously failing for four hours straight and never finishing on multiple occasions... *Ahem* It's not hard, it's just time consuming.

Aliyavana · May 2018

DamenAJ wrote: »

Some things really are too hard, like... The last boss in vet falkreath hold. I think stuff like that, and some of the other vet DLC stuff, should be made easier, BUT, their hardcore mode made harder.

Whereas some things... Like... Grinding for jewellery crafting.... Dude. That's just effort. It's not having to co-ordinate with other people, and continuously failing for four hours straight and never finishing on multiple occasions... *Ahem* It's not hard, it's just time consuming.

its called veteran mode, not normal mode. If you want all the rewards associated with increase difficulty then either get good or if you cant, normal mode is there for you.

redspecter23 · May 2018

Aliyavana wrote: »

DamenAJ wrote: »

Some things really are too hard, like... The last boss in vet falkreath hold. I think stuff like that, and some of the other vet DLC stuff, should be made easier, BUT, their hardcore mode made harder.

Whereas some things... Like... Grinding for jewellery crafting.... Dude. That's just effort. It's not having to co-ordinate with other people, and continuously failing for four hours straight and never finishing on multiple occasions... *Ahem* It's not hard, it's just time consuming.

its called veteran mode, not normal mode. If you want all the rewards associated with increase difficulty then either get good or if you cant, normal mode is there for you.

I agree to an extent. I'd personally like all veteran dungeons to be of similar difficulty. There is a chasm of difference between vet Fungal Grotto 1 and vet Falkreath Hold. I'm certainly not against hard content, but I would like to see some consistency, whether that means buffing the easier vets, nerfing the harder vets or just creating another ultra vet tier.

DamenAJ · May 2018

Aliyavana wrote: »

DamenAJ wrote: »

Some things really are too hard, like... The last boss in vet falkreath hold. I think stuff like that, and some of the other vet DLC stuff, should be made easier, BUT, their hardcore mode made harder.

Whereas some things... Like... Grinding for jewellery crafting.... Dude. That's just effort. It's not having to co-ordinate with other people, and continuously failing for four hours straight and never finishing on multiple occasions... *Ahem* It's not hard, it's just time consuming.

its called veteran mode, not normal mode. If you want all the rewards associated with increase difficulty then either get good or if you cant, normal mode is there for you.

So, while my CP is not max(It's 660) and my build is not meta, I'm quite pleased with my gear(only the rings aren't legendary), and my rotation(good dps and sustain, but no huge burst). I've done the fights, I know the fights, I've explained the fights. But something always goes wrong. Probably because it's a PUG, because I don't have friends on ESO, and I'm awkward as hell to look for a group. Veteran should mean... Geared. CPed. Strong. Not Meta. Not hardcore, since there IS a hardcore mode, which, btw, super not that much harder in falkreath, it destroys 2 pillars.

Hardcore mode should be for the elitist jerks and metas, veteran should just be for people who've made a good build, got a fair amount of CP, and got good gear. It's not like it rewards legendaries, why would it require you to BE legendary?

Astrid · May 2018

Agree. Took me ages to get my legendary moon dancer jewellery and I’ll be damned if people can just walk through trials and get what they want with a snap of their fingers. True - they can if they’re carried by a decent trial group, but no way should an average group of people with absolutely no forward planning and mechanic knowledge be able to get their hands on goodies like that. It takes hard work, and rightly so.

BretonMage · May 2018

I think challenge in games can be tricky to balance because many people play games to relax and have fun, whilst also expecting some level of challenge. It's tricky because people have different expectations of what challenging is, and some people don't have the time, either, to sink into a something really elaborate. So for people who have time constraints, some things really are hard to get.

I think it's fair to leave some achievements for those who are willing to make the extra effort to get them, but if too much content is out of reach to most people, then that will not feel fair to us either.

As for jewellery farming, I think we can all agree that no one likes tediousness in games. I haven't tried it yet, so I can't comment, but if it really is grindy, then that's... really not a good thing.

Marginis · May 2018

I think the main discontent comes from things being artificially difficult to get, or that entire chunks of content are locked from certain sects of players. People with high skill but little time to play might be locked out of some content, and some with a lot of time but low skill are locked from other content. It would be nice if all content was available to all players, and that some other reward besides access to content in the first place was given to those with unlimited time and high skill.

It's the same concept as regular dungeons and veteran dungeons - regular dungeons for players with time, veteran dungeons for players with skill - but applied more generally, to all aspects of the game. In addition, a lot of players probably don't consider veteran dungeons challenging enough or regular dungeons casual enough.

Note that these are just examples. One can easily apply these concepts generally, like how trials requiring a lot of players can be considered a steep requirement, or how overworld exploration is so easy it's boring.

There are several solutions, but the one I think works best is some sort of difficulty slider, so that all content could be done very easily for someone who just wants to do it, perhaps to enjoy the story of quests, but that players looking for a challenge can still get that. Perhaps there would also be some cosmetic reward, or a title, for that prestige of completing parts of the game on a higher difficulty, or something like a glowing aura that can only be used when playing on a hard setting - just nothing that is actual gameplay content, like locking away a whole storyline behind a difficulty setting.

Anotherone773 · May 2018

Everyone should get a participation reward.... your reward is you got to participate. This is the least grindy MMO ive played in a long time. Levels are not that grindy, gear is not that grindy, mats/crafting/etc not grindy. The only things that have a little bit of a grind are:

1) skyshards, but really how many skyshards do you need? If you were to get SP from nothing but shards, it would be enough for pretty much every build. So its not like you need to collect every shard considering the amount of places you can get other SPs.

2) Achievements- this is the most grindy by far. But besides bragging rights and unlocking a few dies whats its good for besides keeping track of your accomplishments?

3) Lorebooks - Grindy like shards but do you really need to collect all those books on all those characters? No.

Even so why skip 90% of the game so you can hurry up and get to the end, do X for a few months and then complain because game is boring needs more end game content when you havent done 90% of the content available because you wanted to hurry up and get to the end so you could get bored faster.

People make no sense.

Priyasekarssk · May 2018

Dragonnord wrote: »

Hello everyone,

In reading the forums through the last few months, I just wanted to express that some things just need to be hard to get, even if it's based on player skills or on time invested.

Personally, I'm... (don't want to use word "tired"), let's say I'm saturated hearing nerf this, nerf that, make veteran trials easier, make DLC vet dungeons easier, make vet Maelstrom easier, make vet Dragonstar easier, make some delves/bosses in Craglorn easier, make this achievement easier, make jewelery farming easier, make this item so we can buy it directly, make this so if I get it with one toon it counts for my other 14 toons, and so a long list of etceteras with a lot of different things in the game.

I mean, why EVERYONE has to have EVERYTHING just like that? Without any considerable effort?

Why some people work their a*ses off to get a Legendary Moondancer Ring and so someone that doesn't want to learn, improve or make a real effort, just collects a few mats, improve a blue ring and gets the Legendary one without doing anything other than waiting some days for research traits and picking up a few mats? That was an example with jewelery since it's the "request of the moment", to lower amount of mats.

Why you want vet Maelstrom arena to become easier than what it is once you finish it? Believe me; once you finish it once you will complete it 1000 more times if you want. And I've seen pro players finishing it as well as friends and guildies that are not that good at all (with all due respect to them).

If a skin is hard to get, why asking to nerf the dungeon/trial/boss/mechanics so it can be obtained easily? If a weapon is hard to get, why asking to nerf the content so it can be wielded easily too?

Again, personally, I prefer challenges, solo or in group, but real challenges.

If you need 10x more mats to improve rings, then so be it. If you need to practice, get better, learn and adapt to get a skin or weapon, then so be it.

Is anyone here in a hurry? I don't think so. So play, enjoy the game guys. There are a lot of things in real life that we can't get, that we won't get, ever... and believe me, here, in TESO, if you work for it, you can get it; everything. Well... maybe the Radiant Apex mounts, but it's OK, I don't like to see everyone with the same stuff. Some things just need to be exclusive.

I remember when people were dressing all the same, but nowadays you don't see not even one player dressed exactly the same as another player. Original and unique things. I love that!

Please, don't ask to nerf stuff so things can be obtained easier.

Thank you.

If its grinding then strict no. Its only shows game developers are incompetent. If its difficulty its different equation. No one in sane mind likes grinding just because developers either incompetent or lazy to fill good content. Even for a mentally *** person mindless grinding is hated most. Skyrim & witcher 3 are greatest game of all time. Even though grinding is there , it was filled in meticulous way so that is doesn't look grinding at all.

ESO is not. Not evern close to compare. ESO just enjoying the name skyrim has provided. You should always follow great games of all time as an example how a game has to be made. Not some stupid , idiotic MMO games as pretext, which many players not even know exists.

Are you defending *** grinding in disguise ?

Stop preaching others and useless forum post likes this. Forget ESO. At least 30 percent of the people can achieve what top 1 percent can achieve even its IQ skill alone matters .This is applicable to real life as well. All they need is motivation and time. It does not mean others cannot achieve that. Either they lack motivation or time with RNG involved. Not the skill or IQ in most cases. No one should think themselves as they are best just because they completed 1 veteran dungeon and they have more skill than others. It only shows Self proclaiming noobs calling themselves PROs. Let me tell one thing. ESO does not require extraordinary skill to complete vet dungeons or trials. All need is CP levels with good gear & muscle memory in most part. All dungeon mechanizes are not mostly dynamic. At 75% percent health boss does something. At 50% health boss spam adds. Every mechanics is mostly predetermined , even before entering dungeon . All mechanics are available in websites. I am not complaining about the mechanics. A game doe not require a top notch mechanics to enjoy it.

But, everyone hate when noobs calling themselves superhumans. At max CP level atleast 50 percent population can completion can complete maelstorm arena anyway. Loot is purely luck. So , whats difference here . You want everyone to run maelstorm arena day & night to get desired weapons.

I really applaud the people who designed fighters guilds in this game. Leveling up is not a chore. Skills & loot are well thought out in most part. Content is not boring with a big story twist in the end. Even final reward is well thought out, you have a choice what you want.

People hates mindless grinding just for getting 1 piece of armor. It should not be considered as effort of player. It will only be considered as incompetent of game developer.

Wreuntzylla · May 2018

Aliyavana wrote: »

DamenAJ wrote: »

Some things really are too hard, like... The last boss in vet falkreath hold. I think stuff like that, and some of the other vet DLC stuff, should be made easier, BUT, their hardcore mode made harder.

Whereas some things... Like... Grinding for jewellery crafting.... Dude. That's just effort. It's not having to co-ordinate with other people, and continuously failing for four hours straight and never finishing on multiple occasions... *Ahem* It's not hard, it's just time consuming.

its called veteran mode, not normal mode. If you want all the rewards associated with increase difficulty then either get good or if you cant, normal mode is there for you.

Harsh.

I think the main problem is expectations. People expect something called veteran to be a bit of a challenge. However, if something is not really dooable by a large number of players, they typically expect to see a name like "Nightmare Mode" or "Heroic Mode." Or whatever.

One poster above mentioned the difficulty level disparity between vanilla and DLC dungeons. ZoS ostensibly has that disparity in there because new people to the game won't have 720 champion points and great gear. However, they should again use a different name for this harder content.

If not a fourth difficulty name, perhaps suggested CP levels.

Mureel · May 2018

redspecter23 wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

DamenAJ wrote: »

Some things really are too hard, like... The last boss in vet falkreath hold. I think stuff like that, and some of the other vet DLC stuff, should be made easier, BUT, their hardcore mode made harder.

Whereas some things... Like... Grinding for jewellery crafting.... Dude. That's just effort. It's not having to co-ordinate with other people, and continuously failing for four hours straight and never finishing on multiple occasions... *Ahem* It's not hard, it's just time consuming.

its called veteran mode, not normal mode. If you want all the rewards associated with increase difficulty then either get good or if you cant, normal mode is there for you.

I agree to an extent. I'd personally like all veteran dungeons to be of similar difficulty. There is a chasm of difference between vet Fungal Grotto 1 and vet Falkreath Hold. I'm certainly not against hard content, but I would like to see some consistency, whether that means buffing the easier vets, nerfing the harder vets or just creating another ultra vet tier.

We as a player base just weren't as strong when those came out as we are when newer dlc comes.

There was none of this 'normal' hooha either. Was coh1 or vet coh as one example.

I remember when Deadlands Saavy and then later, VCOH HM was The Thing you must have to even get in a raiding guild.

People used to sneak by the first boss of VCOH because he'd paste you to the floor.

Times change. We got massssive power creep- that's why the base game dungeons are easier now. :-)

Anotherone773 · May 2018

Aliyavana wrote: »

DamenAJ wrote: »

Some things really are too hard, like... The last boss in vet falkreath hold. I think stuff like that, and some of the other vet DLC stuff, should be made easier, BUT, their hardcore mode made harder.

Whereas some things... Like... Grinding for jewellery crafting.... Dude. That's just effort. It's not having to co-ordinate with other people, and continuously failing for four hours straight and never finishing on multiple occasions... *Ahem* It's not hard, it's just time consuming.

its called veteran mode, not normal mode. If you want all the rewards associated with increase difficulty then either get good or if you cant, normal mode is there for you.

By the game standards many people are "good enough" to do veteran content. By the elitists standards you need 35k,40k,45k dps to complete content and if your not doing at least 30k you should go back to noobie isle and kill mudcrabs until you L2P and gitgud. That group of people stop many people from even trying harder content and thus having the need to improve. You can ride through normal dungeons doing 5k dps and all of overland content as well. No incentive to improve for many when they see what improving wins them to play with...a bunch of ass hats spitting on them from their mighty pedestals.

imnotanother · May 2018

Hey, I’ve been grinding ghost for 3 years trying to get this stupid Ectoplasmic Discharge to drop. They can nerf those drop rates lol

VaranisArano · May 2018

I love the Master Angler achievement for two reasons.

1. Everyone can do it if they put the effort and the time in. As long as you have patience, Master Angler can be yours.

2. Its a base game achievement, so it requires you to experience ALL of the base game. Including Cyrodiil. I would have never gone into PVP if I didnt want those fish and now I PVP regularly.

All achievements are possible with the right level of time and effort. Its just that the level of time and effort required vary hugely. Some players enjoy trial or battleground achievements but would never touch Master Angler. I dont mind having achievements I will never do because they aren't worth it to me to put in the time and effort to get them as long as I am having fun getting the achievements I do have.

Graydon · May 2018

Participantion Trophies for Everyone!

Hooray!

Iselin · May 2018

You're missing the trees looking at the forest.

Are there unreasonable and inane complaints? It's an internet forum. What did you expect?

Are there legitimate complaints about poor design choices? Of course there are.

It's on you to be smart enough to see the difference instead of lumping it all into a lazy binary decision tree.

Violynne · May 2018

Dragonnord wrote: »

Is anyone here in a hurry? I don't think so.

This thought is a bit condescending, don't you think? How can you determine what a person's need is while playing the game.

There's no denying MMOs require some amount of grinding, but for many players, time isn't on our side. Some have jobs. Some would like to play other games. Some want a more casual approach.

Now, don't take this as going against your point, but I think it's a bit unfair to instantly judge the motives of why people want things a bit "easier" or with "little" work.

The largest factor in this comes down to randomized drops. This mechanic, which has plagued gaming for decades and is wholly frakking unnecessary, is why people want things "easier".

Maybe you enjoy doing dungeons over and over again. Great, for you. For the rest of us, myself included, I don't want to repeat something because it's the only place in the game to get it.

This gets old. Fast. It's not about "working" for it. It's about "working" it over and over and being disappointed because some damn calculator decides to drop an item the person doesn't want.

The best solution to this: Put chests in the dungeon, and let people choose their desired item.

Problem solved, right?

No. Bean counters want volume of players and the only way they can keep them is dangling that tired carrot over everyone's head, then laugh maniacally as players try to get it.

I couldn't care less about loot, but I know many people do.

It's punishment not to reward them for doing the work to get it.

As for those who don't want to dungeon.... tough luck. Just like those who want Vigor and Caltrops but refuse to do PvP, there are some rewards which require the work to get them.

So they can either get busy or do without.

Eyro · May 2018

Graydon wrote: »

Participantion Trophies for Everyone!

Hooray!

the driving force in most MMOs. You do something long enough, often enough, you get a reward.

Sylosi · May 2018

Dragonnord wrote: »

Again, personally, I prefer challenges, solo or in group, but real challenges.

Yet you are playing ESO...

Dragonnord · May 2018

Sylosi wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Again, personally, I prefer challenges, solo or in group, but real challenges.

Yet you are playing ESO...

LOL! You mean TESO has no challenges?

Bigevilpeter · May 2018

Problem is you need BiS gear to beat Vet trials or even be allowed in team, but in order to get them you need to beat the trial.

Unless you start your own guild or something and find another 11 people who are willing to follow a system and be organized, which is not something accessable to most players.

problem with 12 man vet trials is that people can find teams more than they cant do them.

About VMA I beat it a lot, but still think its cheap more than it is hard

code65536 · May 2018

Dragonnord wrote: »

If you need 10x more mats to improve rings, then so be it. If you need to practice, get better, learn and adapt to get a skin or weapon, then so be it.

Making the upgrade from white to green jewelry be almost as grindy as upgrading a purple weapon to gold is not a challenge. You know what is a challenge? PvP. Vet trials. Maelstrom. Those are challenges. Because they are a measure of a player's skill and awareness. The asinine jewelry grind? How on earth can anyone say with a straight face that is a "challenge"? That's nothing more than a measure of how much time someone has to mindlessly run from node to node like a sweat shop slave. It's not fun. It's not interesting. And it's nothing like the real challenges--the ones that involve actual gameplay (that I agree do not need nerfing).

Astrid wrote: »

Agree. Took me ages to get my legendary moon dancer jewellery and I’ll be damned if people can just walk through trials and get what they want with a snap of their fingers. True - they can if they’re carried by a decent trial group, but no way should an average group of people with absolutely no forward planning and mechanic knowledge be able to get their hands on goodies like that. It takes hard work, and rightly so.

Bah. Insecure much? I have gotten so many legendary Moondancer jewels that I've lost count of the dozens that I've thrown away at the vendor. And I frankly don't care if someone who gets a blue Moondancer ring can eventually upgrade it to gold. It doesn't take anything away from me. It's enough that I get can get gold jewelry of any trials set on a whim at no expense to me, that I can easily secure for myself multiple spots on any weekly leaderboard if I bothered to. I'm not so petty as to demand some sort of exclusivity of jewelry on top of all that to feel good about myself. Especially since, starting with Asylum, there is already another tier of gear exclusivity in the form of perfected sets.

Tasear · May 2018

Maybe it's stravation of content and rewards for there level. To be recent trends are saying discontent of content balance.

Ohtimbar · May 2018

No thanks, I'll continue to complain if and when I want to. Feel free to ignore opinions that you disagree with.

ZOS_CoriJ · May 2018

A few comments have been removed for derailing the thread and/or getting offensive. While it's fine to disagree with the topic, keep in mind the forum rules before further participation.

karekiz · May 2018

Changing or nerfing regular veteran mode is ok with me.

Hard Mode should be left as is. Even if it is a PITA RNG blah fest. HM is optional.

Jameliel · May 2018

Some "things are hard to get" in this game