PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance

NBrookus · May 2018

Verified: 20% light attack nerf does not apply to overload.

I'm starting to think the devs have forgotten Overload exists.

GoodFella146 · May 2018

NBrookus wrote: »

Verified: 20% light attack nerf does not apply to overload.

I'm starting to think the devs have forgotten Overload exists.

Sure seems like it. Totally unused ultimate these days except to slot extra skills. Pretty sad

Maulkin · May 2018

NBrookus wrote: »

Verified: 20% light attack nerf does not apply to overload.

I'm starting to think the devs have forgotten Overload exists.

Why would it?

Overload did not benefit from the changes to the scaling of the light attack damage. It didn't suddenly get it's damage buffed by >70% in one update. So why would it take 20% nerf? It's pretty meh ultimate as is and quite useless outside of a gank build.

Agenda much?

Minalan · May 2018

NBrookus wrote: »

Verified: 20% light attack nerf does not apply to overload.

I'm starting to think the devs have forgotten Overload exists.

Even if it did, I’d just wear elegance and boost it back to 58K (26.5K battle spirit) crits.

The ultimate needs a rework. Nerfing the damage to near zero on an ultimate that’s slow, clunky, blockable, reflectable, and dodgeable with poor targeting would pretty much kill it.

I’d love to see a channeled chain lightning bolt or something, even at the expense of the third bar.

PhoenixGrey · May 2018

For God's sake, people need to stop acting like meteor and rune cage are class spammables.

An incap can be up before a frag proc

In some cases a dawn breaker can be up on a warden before a frag proc.
The meta still stays the same at least for solo or small scale. Stam will still be better as they will be in heavy and stack massive weapon damage.

Benemime · May 2018

no changes to Crystal Blast yet?

The animation of crystal blast takes so long (the devs should use this skill on dungeons, open world etc, to see that it takes so long to cast a single crystal blast during the fight), and you can't cast light attacks between each consecutively casting, because it interrupts the next cast of crystal blast or the LA doesn't hit.

Consecutevely casting crystal blast feels like it takes less time than casting the first shot of crystal blast. But since the first cast of crystal blast takes so long, you will be losing a lot of time casting, than failing to land the crystal blast because the mob is already dead, than you start casting on another mob that has left like half of his hp already and he dies again before you finished casting, so, crystal blast is a struggle at the moment. Especially after the buff to light attacks: crystal blast will be even less appealing since casting force pulse + light attack + crystal frags does more dps.

So, my 2 cents is: Decrease the casting time by 0.5s, fix the animation because somehow the casting is clunky and takes more than 1s. Don't make it a proc ability, otherwise we will have to slot force pulse on every.single.build out there, and I want some diversity, force pulse shouldn't be a must for every sorc build (ok, there's heavy attack builds as well, and that's it)

ezio45 · May 2018

for what its worth thats on precursor, its not a good thing to test on, numbers on it are never accurate.

NBrookus · May 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Verified: 20% light attack nerf does not apply to overload.

I'm starting to think the devs have forgotten Overload exists.

Why would it?

Overload did not benefit from the changes to the scaling of the light attack damage. It didn't suddenly get it's damage buffed by >70% in one update. So why would it take 20% nerf? It's pretty meh ultimate as is and quite useless outside of a gank build.

Agenda much?

As someone who usually runs a DW overload sorc when I happen to sorc, I don't have an anti-sorc or anti-overload agenda. Just reporting test results. Overload is a light/heavy attack and the fact it gets ignored by the devs is when balancing these attacks is... troublesome.

I agree with Minlan that overload is clunky and situational and not great for the class overall. Would love that chain lighting thing from the original trailer. That would be one way to get groups to spread out instead of stacking into a blob for heal spam.

ToRelax · May 2018

NBrookus wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Verified: 20% light attack nerf does not apply to overload.

I'm starting to think the devs have forgotten Overload exists.

Why would it?

Overload did not benefit from the changes to the scaling of the light attack damage. It didn't suddenly get it's damage buffed by >70% in one update. So why would it take 20% nerf? It's pretty meh ultimate as is and quite useless outside of a gank build.

Agenda much?

As someone who usually runs a DW overload sorc when I happen to sorc, I don't have an anti-sorc or anti-overload agenda. Just reporting test results. Overload is a light/heavy attack and the fact it gets ignored by the devs is when balancing these attacks is... troublesome.

I agree with Minlan that overload is clunky and situational and not great for the class overall. Would love that chain lighting thing from the original trailer. That would be one way to get groups to spread out instead of stacking into a blob for heal spam.

Well, it just has nothing to do with the light attack buffs/nerfs aside from triggering any associated procs. Overload working with Imbue is weird, especially without an animation, and Overload benefitting from a light attack only Empower should just be a no-go.

Minalan · May 2018

NBrookus wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Verified: 20% light attack nerf does not apply to overload.

I'm starting to think the devs have forgotten Overload exists.

Why would it?

Overload did not benefit from the changes to the scaling of the light attack damage. It didn't suddenly get it's damage buffed by >70% in one update. So why would it take 20% nerf? It's pretty meh ultimate as is and quite useless outside of a gank build.

Agenda much?

As someone who usually runs a DW overload sorc when I happen to sorc, I don't have an anti-sorc or anti-overload agenda. Just reporting test results. Overload is a light/heavy attack and the fact it gets ignored by the devs is when balancing these attacks is... troublesome.

I agree with Minlan that overload is clunky and situational and not great for the class overall. Would love that chain lighting thing from the original trailer. That would be one way to get groups to spread out instead of stacking into a blob for heal spam.

It was definitely NBrookus testing I posted. Because let’s be honest, if I told you forum people that Overload does 70K+ damage in PVE, that’ll be a 35K shot in PVP...

You’d not take me serious. OMG! Agenda! OMG hyperbole much? OMG! You’re ridiculous! STFU!

Nope. 70K+. One shot. On a build not optimized for it. Read it and weep.

I just hope the ‘fix’ doesn’t leave it useless. On live it’s effective against some builds with rune cage. You fire the O/L, then cage/cancel. The cage has like a half second delay to land, and the first and second O/L projectiles often hit. RIP if they do with the curse explosion.

Derra · May 2018

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

Have you fought any magica class with caluu and zaan? It´s not better on mDK or NB.
Which leads to the argument: Is sorc problematic in that case or are the sets?

Waffennacht wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

@derra was saying the defensive of the builds are low, not the damage. Which is why I wonder the context. In CP open world, insta gib is prone to happen with these builds I absolutely agree. But in a duel or BGs, I don't see it being an issue

In duels maximum offense with bare minimum of sustain will loose to less offense with more def (shadowrend, riposte) and the same sustain - as def scales better than offense.
It also comes down to playerskill and experience with the class - most people eventually get stuck in a vicious cicle of recasting shields and all offense they have does not matter because they´re not able to create offensive windows (especially when they start ccing defensively - which is prone to happen with cage) Imo (that´s just my personal experience from dueling on sorc).

Derra · May 2018

NBrookus wrote: »

Verified: 20% light attack nerf does not apply to overload.

I'm starting to think the devs have forgotten Overload exists.

Why would the 20% lightattack nerf apply to a SKILL that´s not even competetive in the first place?
Overload lightattacks - contrary to weapon lightattacks have a cost. Overload is an ability more than it is "lightattacks".

Minalan wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

I dunno, Derra. I mean, they haven’t even fixed this yet:

I´m worried when you combine those with cage - but personally i haven´t managed that.
I can hit ~48k overload on live relatively easy so apart from the new empower working on it i don´t really see that much issue.

Feanor · May 2018

@Derra

If that were true OL shouldn’t work with Elegance. But here we are. Actually I don’t care that much any longer. If it’s cheese, it’s cheese. Yesterday half of the opponents Dawnbreakers didn’t even render and I was chain CCed more than once while run down by 5-10 people (classic teabag from the scrub who did nothing included).

Everyone runs cost or root poisons and tries hard to cheese the game wherever possible. So why should I be the Saint and care about OL. I wish everyone would think like me about balance, but that sort of player self restraint is an illusion. So let the cheese rise!

Derra · May 2018

Feanor wrote: »

@Derra

If that were true OL shouldn’t work with Elegance. But here we are. Actually I don’t care that much any longer. If it’s cheese, it’s cheese. Yesterday half of the opponents Dawnbreakers didn’t even render and I was chain CCed more than once while run down by 5-10 people (classic teabag from the scrub who did nothing included).

If overload behaved like normal lightattacks they should have been scaled up with the other lightattacks with 4.0 - but they were not because they behaved differently in the first place.

Since there was no base dmg increase for overload with 4.0 there was no reason to reduce it´s dmg with 4.2.

I stil stand by the statement that overload is more an ability than it is lightattacks. It´s both - but imo the cost + triggering the normal ability global cooldown outweight it working with elegance and being called lightattacks.

Feanor · May 2018

@Derra

I know. But it’s inconsistent that way.

Derra · May 2018

Feanor wrote: »

@Derra

I know. But it’s inconsistent that way.

What exactly is inconsistent?
That it had different scaling than other lightattacks?

It´s an ultimate - they´re inconsistent with most pure magica/stamina mechanics in the game.
I mean everything about overload is inconsistent and makes it clunky and unfun to use - but i don´t see where it´s problematic balancing wise.

Feanor · May 2018

It’s inconsistent that OL LA is a regular LA for Queen’s Elegance but obviously behaves differently for any other aspect. I’d so much like a rework of OL.

Derra · May 2018

Feanor wrote: »

It’s inconsistent that OL LA is a regular LA for Queen’s Elegance but obviously behaves differently for any other aspect. I’d so much like a rework of OL.

Yeah - i´m much in favor of making it a low cost one time use ultimate along the lines of incap/leap/ (i was gonna write radial sweep but that ability is so bad i´d rather keep overload the way it is

)

Minalan · May 2018

Derra wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

It’s inconsistent that OL LA is a regular LA for Queen’s Elegance but obviously behaves differently for any other aspect. I’d so much like a rework of OL.

Yeah - i´m much in favor of making it a low cost one time use ultimate along the lines of incap/leap/ (i was gonna write radial sweep but that ability is so bad i´d rather keep overload the way it is )

Alright, I laughed a little too much at that. Even if Templars don’t find any humor in it.

Derra · May 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

It’s inconsistent that OL LA is a regular LA for Queen’s Elegance but obviously behaves differently for any other aspect. I’d so much like a rework of OL.

Yeah - i´m much in favor of making it a low cost one time use ultimate along the lines of incap/leap/ (i was gonna write radial sweep but that ability is so bad i´d rather keep overload the way it is )

Alright, I laughed a little too much at that. Even if Templars don’t find any humor in it.

The ability isn´t bad per se - personally i feel it could be fixed easily by making it targetted but dodgeable (and thus forcing the initial hit unless the target dodges.

Same goes for overload lightattacks - imo it´s fundamentally flawed to have a singletarget ability with a cost associated to it being able to be fired into thin air (that´s one of the downsides shared with lightattacks).

Waffennacht · May 2018

Derra wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

Have you fought any magica class with caluu and zaan? It´s not better on mDK or NB.
Which leads to the argument: Is sorc problematic in that case or are the sets?

Waffennacht wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

@derra was saying the defensive of the builds are low, not the damage. Which is why I wonder the context. In CP open world, insta gib is prone to happen with these builds I absolutely agree. But in a duel or BGs, I don't see it being an issue

In duels maximum offense with bare minimum of sustain will loose to less offense with more def (shadowrend, riposte) and the same sustain - as def scales better than offense.
It also comes down to playerskill and experience with the class - most people eventually get stuck in a vicious cicle of recasting shields and all offense they have does not matter because they´re not able to create offensive windows (especially when they start ccing defensively - which is prone to happen with cage) Imo (that´s just my personal experience from dueling on sorc).

Zaan is super good for procing defensively and forcing an opening from your opponent.

Just my Sorcs run Shields on both bars, easier to get back to offense. Especially after casting panacea.

Imo 2k Regen is maximum sustain, 1500 mag regen is bare minimum imo.

Prorcerer (I like my new name for them) build for sustain and defense letting procs do the main portion of killing.

I'm running practically this build on live now. (Atm it's Zaan, Cal, Mara) but winterborn has the same 2-4 and sload is gonna slide in there easily enough.

Probably gonna go x2 Tribune Jewelry, x1 Arcane OR x2 Arcane x1 bloodthirsty, infused is not for PvP sorc

Subversus · May 2018

Derra wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

Have you fought any magica class with caluu and zaan? It´s not better on mDK or NB.
Which leads to the argument: Is sorc problematic in that case or are the sets?

Waffennacht wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

@derra was saying the defensive of the builds are low, not the damage. Which is why I wonder the context. In CP open world, insta gib is prone to happen with these builds I absolutely agree. But in a duel or BGs, I don't see it being an issue

In duels maximum offense with bare minimum of sustain will loose to less offense with more def (shadowrend, riposte) and the same sustain - as def scales better than offense.
It also comes down to playerskill and experience with the class - most people eventually get stuck in a vicious cicle of recasting shields and all offense they have does not matter because they´re not able to create offensive windows (especially when they start ccing defensively - which is prone to happen with cage) Imo (that´s just my personal experience from dueling on sorc).

I haven’t fought anything but sorcs and stam classes on the pts on my sorc. Some magdks here and there, but without the procs they’re utter garbage against a sorc 1v1.

NBrookus · May 2018

Derra wrote: »

I´m worried when you combine those with cage - but personally i haven´t managed that.

I don't think you can. You have to Empower + Imbue + Overload. If you start with rune cage, they will cc break by then. There might be a sweet spot on distance where you can E + I + O + Rune Cage with the travel time working out, but if so I imagine the window is pretty small. I haven't really tested travel time on Rune Cage; I just got back for starters and as a DK main... Rune Cage is a real sore spot.

Imbue takes you out of stealth, so Elegance Stygian overload ganks aren't going to happen.

ToRelax · May 2018

For ganking Fragments/Blast is preferable to Cage or Imbue, no question. At best you could go Inner Light > Blast > Cage > Overload.
Imbue vs Cage is more interesting in an infight situation: Inner Light/Degeneration > Curse > Fury > Cage/Imbue > Overload.

IAVITNI · May 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Its less the feedback I am on about, more a character assessment. DDuke likes nerfing things that hurt NB. I still vote curse gets the CC. Because then it has to be timed and is telegraphed, so can be prepared for if necessary, is different to petrify, saves a slot and mag, and works similar to the the old curse, fury, frag stun in landing.

I mean at this point just give frags back the CC xD

Personally I enjoy CC-less frags. After that change there was significantly more variety in sorc play that was visible even to those with no knowledge of the class.

However, current changes make Rune Cage too strong against medium. Sure the meta is tank, but the Rune Cage change is just like Major Defile or Block Cost Reduction, all it does is harm players not on the extreme of healing/block spectrum, forcing them to adopt the meta said mechanics were trying to deter.

All this change will do is kill off medium and create more tank builds because if your not a tank you won't survive burst in the same way that if you're not spec'd into healing you won't heal with current Major Defile uptime or how without investing into block you couldn't block without wasting excessive stam, prior to calculation changes. I stopped block-animation canceling all together because I would have no stam for break free on my magsorc. Wasn't a L2P issue because I had no issues (outside outplays) before and after the whole permablock fiasco.

These lazy changes by ZoS only exasperate the issues because they don't remove the problem, instead they implement extreme mechanics to break unhealthy metas only for those mechanics to become unhealthy meta themselves. Prior to Major Defile, healing was extreme and high healing builds were meta. Now, everyone and their mount runs Major Defile and nobody is healing except zerg groups or pocket healers.

Before ANY changes go through, sorc passives need a complete overview considering the average sorc benefits from only HALF their passives at best, just over 2/3s if your a magsorc. The only sorcs that benefit from all passives on live are pet sorcs, which are niche. Persistence was a great change. You can't fix a building with a crappy foundation by adding more rooms to the penthouse. No matter how many rooms you add, at one point or another something is going to be out of balance.

PhoenixGrey · May 2018

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

Seriously, stop posting unviable open world builds.

This is like saying, red mountain was hitting hard before in no cp so sorc is awesome.

If u wait through ur zaan proc in open world on a sorc u will get cc'd and bursted to death by a bunch of people. Calu proc will work against you against a wing spammer.

Subversus · May 2018

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

Seriously, stop posting unviable open world builds.

This is like saying, red mountain was hitting hard before in no cp so sorc is awesome.

If u wait through ur zaan proc in open world on a sorc u will get cc'd and bursted to death by a bunch of people. Calu proc will work against you against a wing spammer.

Seriously, pull your head out of your ass and get on the pts and try playing Magicka Sorcerer. You’re out here talking out of your ass while I am wiping the floor with everything non sorc on the pts on a build with 14k stam and 900 stam regen.

The proc build was just an example. Lmfao.

pieratsos · May 2018

DDuke wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Frag+LA+Curse is around 17-18k damage, you can currently barely survive Frag+LA after Curse goes off on Live (get hit by Flame Reach=dead) on a regular 20k health build. Add an unavoidable 5-6k Cage to that & you'll have to add another 5-6k to your health pool. Increased damage from those light attacks adds another 1-2k you need to add compared to previous patch. So 28k health to survive a sorcerer - that's the health pool of a meta tank build. Of course if you want to survive Meteor as well, you'll need 30k+ health. Currently you can't spare a single enchant on a high dmg build, unless you only want to kill low CP players with your burst.
[/list]

Well technically 20k health builds are not regular and they havent been for a very long time. Hence the tank meta. If 20k health were the regular builds then sorcs would never stop being OP af cause they can one shot anyone with 20k health whether you have rune cage whether you dont.

20k health isnt an issue against sorcs. Its an issue against all classes. Even DKs with the least amount of burst are running around with 20k+ leap tooltips. 20k health is simply too squishy. 20k health build are niche builds not regular builds (with the exception of no CP and even in there 20k hp is still too low). I mean i wish we could go back to people actually dying and not everyone having 30k+ hp but it is what it is.

Well, the average health pool of rollerblades (most popular build in Cyro) is between 18-23k health & they don't really have any issues surviving, hence why they're so popular.

Sure there's many close calls, but it's usually not quite enough to burst down a optimally built dodgeroller from 100% unless you also land a proc like Caluurion with the undodgeable dmg.

With the extra 5-6k dmg from Rune Cage it is enough damage, guaranteed (since that's practically the same as landing a Caluurion proc).

This means all of those builds that are barely surviving sorc burst on Live will have to get 5-6k more health to compensate just for the Rune Cage (light attacks dealing more dmg & 1-2 being guaranteed to land during Cage CC is another matter).

Thats because roller blades do not get hit. Thats the entire idea of their build and hence their name in the first place. They dont survive the dmg because they can tank it. They survive it because they dont get hit in the first place. A 20k health roller blade that gets hit by a well timed sorc combo is dead. A 20k health roller blade that gets hit by any combo of any class is usually dead because 20k health is simply too low. Unless we are talking about troll king, minor maim and things like that. But things like that are reasons for the tank meta and kinda irrelevant with normal 20k hp builds.

And tbh 20k health builds are only found in no CP. In CP campaigns even roller blades have 23k+ hp. Im not saying that rune cage change is good. Its bad, they have no clue what they are doing. They screwed up with frag nerf and they are basically trying to fix their mistake by introducing even worse changes. But saying that everyone will have to play with +5k health because of rune cage is kind of a hyperbole. Health going up every patch is inevitable because of power creep. Rune cage is just another dumb change. Just like procs, oblivion dmg, earthgore, troll king etc. We get stuff like that every patch. Nothing new.

Subversus · May 2018

pieratsos wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Frag+LA+Curse is around 17-18k damage, you can currently barely survive Frag+LA after Curse goes off on Live (get hit by Flame Reach=dead) on a regular 20k health build. Add an unavoidable 5-6k Cage to that & you'll have to add another 5-6k to your health pool. Increased damage from those light attacks adds another 1-2k you need to add compared to previous patch. So 28k health to survive a sorcerer - that's the health pool of a meta tank build. Of course if you want to survive Meteor as well, you'll need 30k+ health. Currently you can't spare a single enchant on a high dmg build, unless you only want to kill low CP players with your burst.
[/list]

Well technically 20k health builds are not regular and they havent been for a very long time. Hence the tank meta. If 20k health were the regular builds then sorcs would never stop being OP af cause they can one shot anyone with 20k health whether you have rune cage whether you dont.

20k health isnt an issue against sorcs. Its an issue against all classes. Even DKs with the least amount of burst are running around with 20k+ leap tooltips. 20k health is simply too squishy. 20k health build are niche builds not regular builds (with the exception of no CP and even in there 20k hp is still too low). I mean i wish we could go back to people actually dying and not everyone having 30k+ hp but it is what it is.

Well, the average health pool of rollerblades (most popular build in Cyro) is between 18-23k health & they don't really have any issues surviving, hence why they're so popular.

Sure there's many close calls, but it's usually not quite enough to burst down a optimally built dodgeroller from 100% unless you also land a proc like Caluurion with the undodgeable dmg.

With the extra 5-6k dmg from Rune Cage it is enough damage, guaranteed (since that's practically the same as landing a Caluurion proc).

This means all of those builds that are barely surviving sorc burst on Live will have to get 5-6k more health to compensate just for the Rune Cage (light attacks dealing more dmg & 1-2 being guaranteed to land during Cage CC is another matter).

Thats because roller blades do not get hit. Thats the entire idea of their build and hence their name in the first place. They dont survive the dmg because they can tank it. They survive it because they dont get hit in the first place. A 20k health roller blade that gets hit by a well timed sorc combo is dead. A 20k health roller blade that gets hit by any combo of any class is usually dead because 20k health is simply too low. Unless we are talking about troll king, minor maim and things like that. But things like that are reasons for the tank meta and kinda irrelevant with normal 20k hp builds.

And tbh 20k health builds are only found in no CP. In CP campaigns even roller blades have 23k+ hp. Im not saying that rune cage is good. Its bad, they have no clue what they are doing. They screwed up with frag nerf and they are basically trying to fix their mistake by introducing even worse changes. But saying that everyone will have to play with +5k health because of rune cage is kind of a hyperbole. Health going up every patch is inevitable because of power creep. Rune cage is just another dumb change. Just like procs, oblivion dmg, earthgore, troll king etc. We get stuff like that every patch. Nothing new.

You’re free to log in on the pts and I’ll show you how bad rune cage is

pieratsos · May 2018

Subversus wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Frag+LA+Curse is around 17-18k damage, you can currently barely survive Frag+LA after Curse goes off on Live (get hit by Flame Reach=dead) on a regular 20k health build. Add an unavoidable 5-6k Cage to that & you'll have to add another 5-6k to your health pool. Increased damage from those light attacks adds another 1-2k you need to add compared to previous patch. So 28k health to survive a sorcerer - that's the health pool of a meta tank build. Of course if you want to survive Meteor as well, you'll need 30k+ health. Currently you can't spare a single enchant on a high dmg build, unless you only want to kill low CP players with your burst.
[/list]

Well technically 20k health builds are not regular and they havent been for a very long time. Hence the tank meta. If 20k health were the regular builds then sorcs would never stop being OP af cause they can one shot anyone with 20k health whether you have rune cage whether you dont.

20k health isnt an issue against sorcs. Its an issue against all classes. Even DKs with the least amount of burst are running around with 20k+ leap tooltips. 20k health is simply too squishy. 20k health build are niche builds not regular builds (with the exception of no CP and even in there 20k hp is still too low). I mean i wish we could go back to people actually dying and not everyone having 30k+ hp but it is what it is.

Well, the average health pool of rollerblades (most popular build in Cyro) is between 18-23k health & they don't really have any issues surviving, hence why they're so popular.

Sure there's many close calls, but it's usually not quite enough to burst down a optimally built dodgeroller from 100% unless you also land a proc like Caluurion with the undodgeable dmg.

With the extra 5-6k dmg from Rune Cage it is enough damage, guaranteed (since that's practically the same as landing a Caluurion proc).

This means all of those builds that are barely surviving sorc burst on Live will have to get 5-6k more health to compensate just for the Rune Cage (light attacks dealing more dmg & 1-2 being guaranteed to land during Cage CC is another matter).

Thats because roller blades do not get hit. Thats the entire idea of their build and hence their name in the first place. They dont survive the dmg because they can tank it. They survive it because they dont get hit in the first place. A 20k health roller blade that gets hit by a well timed sorc combo is dead. A 20k health roller blade that gets hit by any combo of any class is usually dead because 20k health is simply too low. Unless we are talking about troll king, minor maim and things like that. But things like that are reasons for the tank meta and kinda irrelevant with normal 20k hp builds.

And tbh 20k health builds are only found in no CP. In CP campaigns even roller blades have 23k+ hp. Im not saying that rune cage is good. Its bad, they have no clue what they are doing. They screwed up with frag nerf and they are basically trying to fix their mistake by introducing even worse changes. But saying that everyone will have to play with +5k health because of rune cage is kind of a hyperbole. Health going up every patch is inevitable because of power creep. Rune cage is just another dumb change. Just like procs, oblivion dmg, earthgore, troll king etc. We get stuff like that every patch. Nothing new.

You’re free to log in on the pts and I’ll show you how bad rune cage is

I meant rune cage change is bad. Not that the actual ability is bad.