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Why is DragonKnight still the only class with just 2 stamina costing morphs?
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Yamenstein✭✭✭✭✭Yamenstein wrote: »Out of curiosity. What skills do you stamDK players use currently, and which ones would you remove if you had more stamina options from the DK skill lines.
I PVP sDK, I only use: Volatile Armor, Igneous Shield, and Ferocious Leap. All 3 are mag abilities. I know they won't change Leap back to physical damage and for passive reasons Shield doesn't make sense as a stam ability. Not really sure what I'd change but the class feels really generic when only 3 abilities of 12 are class based. I don't necessarily need another stam ability (would be nice), but retooling the ones we have to be more effective in PVP might make them more enticing, Stam wings is a good idea, and anything that would increase ultimate regen would be welcomed.
I would love something that would increase ultimate Regen! Ultimates are so important for DKs. I would say I would rahre have ult regen increases than the new combustion passive. But then that would mean that we can not only gain resources back faster, due to more frwquent ultimates and battle roar passive, but also deal more damage which would be pretty op.
If they reworked some skills and numbers it would be great. Especially passives like elder dragon, but who knows maybe a high health recovery tank is being used somewhere ?
Would rather have new skills and morphs though. Maybe a skill line that works differently, slightly, for each different class but it's all considered the one skill line. If that makes sense.Crown Crates are a trap. Don't fall for the gamble! Balance? What Balance? Balance, smellance.
Necro for them RP feels.0 -
Supernatural✭✭✭✭Yamenstein wrote: »Supernatural wrote: »Yamenstein wrote: »Supernatural wrote: »Cauterize could be changed into a stamina morph which deals poison damage and also provides major savagery and then remove major prophecy on the base morph and have FoO give the major prophecy buff. That will give the stam dk some extra burst in solo PvE (like VMA) and PvP, where the class really suffers. Considering cauterize at its current state is pretty much useless, that is something that could be done.
One less skill for DK healers. So you'll have to suggest something else, can't shaft one play style for another.
Are dragonknight healers a thing?
Doesn't matter if it's a "thing". I heal with my magDK. It is fun and different to other healers. If it's not a thing it should be one, but removing skills won't help that goal. Skills need to be flexible to fit multiple roles when required, not all of them and not all at once.
Maybe instead of changing morphs and getting rid of build ideas from one group of players just other suit another, they should add skills or morphs so you can make up for a lack of skills.
But some of us don't care for that. For some reason having class skills be able to do everything is more important. Which is why I think it shouldn't matter if the DK only has two stamina morphs for skills. With that said cauterize being changed doesn't matter to me, because as stated before new skills and morphs might mean we don't need to use! I just don't like the idea that people are happy to have skills changed so it works for them and doesn't consider other peoples playstyles.
From a meta point of view they are not and will never be. And while I understand you want a DK healer to viable enough to be able to complete more regular content like vet dungeons and maybe some of the easier trials, I only suggested a change to a skill morph that is abandoned and not used by anyone.Edited by Supernatural on April 24, 2018 3:49AMMaelstrom Arena - World's First Nightblade 600k Score - 02/18/20170 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The only thing I would agree to them getting is a stamina morph of petrify. Anything damage related and itll break the game.1 -
Supernatural✭✭✭✭You might only have 2 stamina costing skills, but you still have a ton of utility as an stamDK. Consider igneous, volatile armor, green dragon blood, fossilize, etc. All very much viable and useful to a stamDK depending on how you play it.
The problem is more that you lack implicit sustain in your class, with a sustain passive that encourages bad ulti usage. You also do not have enough damage in general to take down targets as you would on other classes. Instead, you focus on wearing down single enemies over time with DoTs and weaved skills (heavy attack + skill + bash), assuming you're 2h/1h&s. StamDK has enough CC and implicit DoT pressure to keep people on the defensive. What they lack is raw damage and burst potential, and in open world they can be quite challenging to play sometimes.
Next patch will buff magDK's sustain fairly well, but not as well for stamDK's. I don't get the stam whip unless it has a specific mechanic attached to it. Heroic slash / Puncture are strong enough abilities. Cauterize is a skill I would like to see use for stamDKs; either that or buff FoO.
I am gonna have to disagree a bit with utility. Igneous shield is a solid ability sure, but has been nerfed over the pass of time and is not as good as it once was. Volatile armor, on the other hand, is an ability I never liked during my time in PvP with a stam DK. Do not get me wrong, it provides some good damage mitigation, but you sacrifice an entire slot for just that, while other classes get their major resistances passively. Dragon blood is pretty weak compared to rally and vigor, and the recovery buffs it provides are irrelevant, as you will most likely be gaining those by potions. And finally, why would I run fossilize when I can reverb bash? Deals more damage, costs stamina, and adds a healing debuff.
I will agree 100% on the sustain part though. Your sustain comes through your ultimates as well as from igneous shield (or other earthen heart abilities). In both cases, you have to make an action to get resources back. Helping Hands and battle roar could use some love.
A cauterize change could definetely work, it is something I have also suggested. I'd change it to a stamina morph and have it deal poison damage as well as provide major savagery on activation (so that it will be active on both bars and not on the one that it is slotted) for maybe 20 secs instead of 15? Since most stamina dragonknights run heavy armor in PvP and have relatively low crit chance, it would be a welcome change and would also free some bar space, as I see lot of dks running evil hunter nowadays.
And finally, maybe have major ward and resolve granted passively instead of being locked behind volatile armor? Would be free some more bar space and would make it so that you can use more magicka solely on igneous and wings? Some thoughts..
Edited by Supernatural on May 8, 2018 10:15AMMaelstrom Arena - World's First Nightblade 600k Score - 02/18/20170 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yamenstein wrote: »Out of curiosity. What skills do you stamDK players use currently, and which ones would you remove if you had more stamina options from the DK skill lines.
I PVP sDK, I only use: Volatile Armor, Igneous Shield, and Ferocious Leap. All 3 are mag abilities. I know they won't change Leap back to physical damage and for passive reasons Shield doesn't make sense as a stam ability. Not really sure what I'd change but the class feels really generic when only 3 abilities of 12 are class based. I don't necessarily need another stam ability (would be nice), but retooling the ones we have to be more effective in PVP might make them more enticing, Stam wings is a good idea, and anything that would increase ultimate regen would be welcomed.
Why do you not use Take Flight instead of Ferocious Leap?1 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Pve meta is DW (multiple Stam abilities) plus razor caltrops, rearming trap, vigor for heals. These aren’t DK skills proper but HIIIIIGGGGH DD’s use them.
PvP get vigor. PvP get caltrops. Do your fighter’s guild get beast trap. I don’t understand why you’d want morphs in Stam you wouldn’t slot lol.1 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Pve meta is DW (multiple Stam abilities) plus razor caltrops, rearming trap, vigor for heals. These aren’t DK skills proper but HIIIIIGGGGH DD’s use them.
PvP get vigor. PvP get caltrops. Do your fighter’s guild get beast trap. I don’t understand why you’d want morphs in Stam you wouldn’t slot lol.
Ty for your reccomendations.
You are very on topic and I wish I did all that 4 years ago before I opened this discusdion.
Yes thank you.
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JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Pve meta is DW (multiple Stam abilities) plus razor caltrops, rearming trap, vigor for heals. These aren’t DK skills proper but HIIIIIGGGGH DD’s use them.
PvP get vigor. PvP get caltrops. Do your fighter’s guild get beast trap. I don’t understand why you’d want morphs in Stam you wouldn’t slot lol.
Ty for your reccomendations.
You are very on topic and I wish I did all that 4 years ago before I opened this discusdion.
Yes thank you.
Sarcasm. Got it. I’m lost tho. Explain to me (if you would) why it matters what skill line a morph comes from if you can actually get the skill and it does high dps. Is it a matter of sustain? Are you running out of Magicka or something hehehe I’m lost
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GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Pve meta is DW (multiple Stam abilities) plus razor caltrops, rearming trap, vigor for heals. These aren’t DK skills proper but HIIIIIGGGGH DD’s use them.
PvP get vigor. PvP get caltrops. Do your fighter’s guild get beast trap. I don’t understand why you’d want morphs in Stam you wouldn’t slot lol.
Ty for your reccomendations.
You are very on topic and I wish I did all that 4 years ago before I opened this discusdion.
Yes thank you.
Sarcasm. Got it. I’m lost tho. Explain to me (if you would) why it matters what skill line a morph comes from if you can actually get the skill and it does high dps. Is it a matter of sustain? Are you running out of Magicka or something hehehe I’m lost
I dont care for high dps. I care for class identity.3 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Pve meta is DW (multiple Stam abilities) plus razor caltrops, rearming trap, vigor for heals. These aren’t DK skills proper but HIIIIIGGGGH DD’s use them.
PvP get vigor. PvP get caltrops. Do your fighter’s guild get beast trap. I don’t understand why you’d want morphs in Stam you wouldn’t slot lol.
Ty for your reccomendations.
You are very on topic and I wish I did all that 4 years ago before I opened this discusdion.
Yes thank you.
Sarcasm. Got it. I’m lost tho. Explain to me (if you would) why it matters what skill line a morph comes from if you can actually get the skill and it does high dps. Is it a matter of sustain? Are you running out of Magicka or something hehehe I’m lost
I dont care for high dps. I care for class identity.
Fair enough. On that much I can agree due to the VERY few DK abilities I actually slot. Point taken.
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xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1. No, don't mess with cauterize. It's a great skill and doesn't need to be changed just to give some random stammys a choice to run something that most of them won't take anyway.
2. Many of these discussions have taken classes down paths in the past that actually take away magicka abilities that give you a use for a stam pool that is often ignored in stam builds, like having Igneous Weapons be magicka is a benefit to stam and it provides buffs to stam as well, even if it uses magicka. Acting like they only gave DKs two stam abilities when you ignore them adding stam benefits to magicka morphs isn't genuine. But using magicka like that only works for buffs and not for spammables.
3. Noxious breath isn't 'weak' in a general sense. It's a DoT that gives Major Fracture in an AoE.
4. Stam whip is the one change they haven't made that has surprised me. I really don't think they need to change anything else in the class stam wise.
-- @xaraan --
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AD • NA • PC0 -
Itzmichi✭✭✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »Out of all the classes only DragonKnight has 2 stamina morphs and one of them, Noxious Breath is extremely weak. Thats right. Only 2 skills and one of them is half usefull in PvE
@ZOS
Can you buff Noxious Breath?
Can you add a third stamina costing morph just like every other class has?
Do you find stamDK overperforming with the only 2 stamina costing skills you have given us?
Do you find stamDK a class that has many viable options at its disposal?
Do you have a reason to ignore once again stamDK?
PS.
Wrobel: We decided to upgrade the tools in stamDKs arsenal and so we are giving Noxious Breath the addirtonal effect of Major Breach, so that stamDKs cannot utilize it. Their groups will surely appreciete it tho.
StamDKs real stenthg lies in providing their groups with Igneous weapons, and their groups enemies with Maj Frac/Breach
There should be pro/cons on every class, i dont want every class to be exactly the same.
Stamina Dragonknight is still very good, i dont see the point of buffing it. At best they should think about some better sets with actual useful boni or rethinking the nmg / sunderflame disaster.
Here, have a chill pill 💊!0 -
Lichbourne90✭✭✭Yamenstein wrote: »Out of curiosity. What skills do you stamDK players use currently, and which ones would you remove if you had more stamina options from the DK skill lines.
I PVP sDK, I only use: Volatile Armor, Igneous Shield, and Ferocious Leap. All 3 are mag abilities. I know they won't change Leap back to physical damage and for passive reasons Shield doesn't make sense as a stam ability. Not really sure what I'd change but the class feels really generic when only 3 abilities of 12 are class based. I don't necessarily need another stam ability (would be nice), but retooling the ones we have to be more effective in PVP might make them more enticing, Stam wings is a good idea, and anything that would increase ultimate regen would be welcomed.
U do know there is a physical leap morph right?2 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lichbourne90 wrote: »Yamenstein wrote: »Out of curiosity. What skills do you stamDK players use currently, and which ones would you remove if you had more stamina options from the DK skill lines.
I PVP sDK, I only use: Volatile Armor, Igneous Shield, and Ferocious Leap. All 3 are mag abilities. I know they won't change Leap back to physical damage and for passive reasons Shield doesn't make sense as a stam ability. Not really sure what I'd change but the class feels really generic when only 3 abilities of 12 are class based. I don't necessarily need another stam ability (would be nice), but retooling the ones we have to be more effective in PVP might make them more enticing, Stam wings is a good idea, and anything that would increase ultimate regen would be welcomed.
U do know there is a physical leap morph right?
You know you are off topic right?
Leap? You noob... slot DBoS1 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »Out of all the classes only DragonKnight has 2 stamina morphs and one of them, Noxious Breath is extremely weak. Thats right. Only 2 skills and one of them is half usefull in PvE
@ZOS
Can you buff Noxious Breath?
Can you add a third stamina costing morph just like every other class has?
Do you find stamDK overperforming with the only 2 stamina costing skills you have given us?
Do you find stamDK a class that has many viable options at its disposal?
Do you have a reason to ignore once again stamDK?
PS.
Wrobel: We decided to upgrade the tools in stamDKs arsenal and so we are giving Noxious Breath the addirtonal effect of Major Breach, so that stamDKs cannot utilize it. Their groups will surely appreciete it tho.
StamDKs real stenthg lies in providing their groups with Igneous weapons, and their groups enemies with Maj Frac/Breach
There should be pro/cons on every class, i dont want every class to be exactly the same.
Stamina Dragonknight is still very good, i dont see the point of buffing it. At best they should think about some better sets with actual useful boni or rethinking the nmg / sunderflame disaster.
Ahhh yes cool solution.
Instead of working on the uniqueness of Classes slap more *** proc sets and more passive stats numbers for players to work with. Instead of improving ACTIVE COMBAT.
Btw.
StamWArden solo group
StamNB solo by far
StamSorc group solo
StamDK 1 viable build
Stamplar Sorry state
Reconsider your possition
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GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »Out of all the classes only DragonKnight has 2 stamina morphs and one of them, Noxious Breath is extremely weak. Thats right. Only 2 skills and one of them is half usefull in PvE
@ZOS
Can you buff Noxious Breath?
Can you add a third stamina costing morph just like every other class has?
Do you find stamDK overperforming with the only 2 stamina costing skills you have given us?
Do you find stamDK a class that has many viable options at its disposal?
Do you have a reason to ignore once again stamDK?
PS.
Wrobel: We decided to upgrade the tools in stamDKs arsenal and so we are giving Noxious Breath the addirtonal effect of Major Breach, so that stamDKs cannot utilize it. Their groups will surely appreciete it tho.
StamDKs real stenthg lies in providing their groups with Igneous weapons, and their groups enemies with Maj Frac/Breach
There should be pro/cons on every class, i dont want every class to be exactly the same.
Stamina Dragonknight is still very good, i dont see the point of buffing it. At best they should think about some better sets with actual useful boni or rethinking the nmg / sunderflame disaster.
Ahhh yes cool solution.
Instead of working on the uniqueness of Classes slap more *** proc sets and more passive stats numbers for players to work with. Instead of improving ACTIVE COMBAT.
Btw.
StamWArden solo group
StamNB solo by far
StamSorc group solo
StamDK 1 viable build
Stamplar Sorry state
Reconsider your possition
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Bigevilpeter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The def need an earthen heart stamina ability for ulti generation.
Probably a morph for stonefist that does physical damage2 -
Temeraire507✭✭✭The only class with just 2 stamina costing morphs? Maybe, but let's go over stamina in all classes:
NB has 6 stamina morphs. 5 deal damage.
+1 stam based Ult morph
+10 mag morphs that may be useful on stam in some situations (17 if you go for every little thing that can be helpful)
+5 Ult morphs that could be useful for some players
Warden has 3 stamina morphs. 2 deal damage.
+bull netch
+1 stam based Ult morph
+12 mag morphs that may be useful on stam in some situations (19 -II-)
+4 Ult morphs that could be useful for some players
Sorc has 3 stamina morphs. 1 deals damage.
+8 mag morphs that can be useful on stam in some situations (14 -II-)
+all 6 Ult morphs could be useful for some stam players
Templar has 3 stamina morphs. All 3 deal damage.
+Repentance
+1 stam based Ult morph
+8 mag morphs that could be useful on stam in some situations (16 -II-)
+5 Ult morphs that could be useful for some players
DK has 2 stamina morphs. Both deal damage.
+2 stam based Ult morphs
+16 mag morphs that could be useful on stam in some situations (22 -II-)
+4 Ult morphs that could be useful for some players
That does not really look unbalanced for me. Another useful stam ability would be nice but not really necessary imo.4 -
Temeraire507✭✭✭The biggest problem with this is: What can be changed? Let's go over the skills of a DK and have a look:
(This list is based on my point of view. Feel free to add more aspects.)
ARDENT FLAME:
Flame Lash:
used by mag in PvP
Molten Whip:
used by most PvE mag DD's
Searing Strike and Fiery Breath already have a stam morph.
Empowering Chains:
underused?
Unrelenting Grip:
used in PvP, important for tanks
Flames of Oblivion:
important for mag and stam DD's in PvE, strong in PvP
Cauterize:
used by DK healers, used by mag DK's in PvP
DRACONIC POWER:
Spiked armor and morphs:
used by (nearly) all tanks, PvPers and some DD's based on which morph they prefer
Burning Talons:
(not that often) used by PvE mag DD's and some mag PvPers
Choking Talons:
used by tanks, used by PvPers
Green Dragon Blood:
used by tanks, used by some PvPers
Coagulating Blood:
used by mag DD's and some other players with higher mag pool in PvE, used by some PvPers
Reflective Scale and morphs:
used by some tanks, used by PvPers based on which morph they prefer
Deep Breath:
used by (nearly) all tanks, used by some PvPers
Draw Essence:
used by some mag Players in PvE and PvP
EARTHEN HEART:
Stonefist:
stun for some PvPers (and some PvEers) based on what they prefer (healing or damage), Obsidian Shard used by DK healers
Igneous Weapons:
used by some tanks, used by some people that prefer to buff the group over HA damage or that want the brutality buff
Molten Armaments:
used by some mag DD's in PvE and some stam DD's in PvE as well, used by PvPers
Obsidian Shield and morphs:
used by tanks and healers in PvE, used by PvPers with the morph based on peronal preference
Petrify and morphs:
main stun for most PvPers based on personal preference
Cinder Storm:
nice snare for PvP
Eruption:
used by most mag DD's in PvE1 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Temeraire507 wrote: »Empowering Chains:
underused?
Underused only because it's unreliable in PVP. On paper it's an awesome morph, in reality it's a gap closer that gives you a too high/too low error way too often.0 -
Temeraire507✭✭✭Temeraire507 wrote: »Empowering Chains:
underused?
Underused only because it's unreliable in PVP. On paper it's an awesome morph, in reality it's a gap closer that gives you a too high/too low error way too often.
Thanks for adding more info. Seems like it is one more of those abilities (that are actually a ton) that need to be reworked/fixed
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NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The problem is, I think, gap closing into keeps. It's why we have the height restriction. There are still a few places where it can happen (not with Chains). It just borks the skill though. Applying gap closer height restrictions withing x meters of a keep/outpost would solve the issue, but is probably a tough change to tackle.0 -
Temeraire507✭✭✭The problem is, I think, gap closing into keeps. It's why we have the height restriction. There are still a few places where it can happen (not with Chains). It just borks the skill though. Applying gap closer height restrictions withing x meters of a keep/outpost would solve the issue, but is probably a tough change to tackle.
Gap closing and keeps is a general problem. I even managed to gap close through gates along with an ally or target sometimes with a little practise when I tried whether gap closing into keeps got fixed last time. I'm afraid that such mechanics get abused by some players. It is unfair although it does not work everytime and you die most of the time through fall damage when passing a gate (from what I heard and tested). It would be nice if anyone could give an Update whether it got fixed. (Hopefully yes) Zeni has to work on this issue, but that's off topic. Making some abilities more reliable would definitely help stam DK's. But it does not solve their problem of being behind other classes (eventhough they are not alone there).0 -
Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Temeraire507 wrote: »Temeraire507 wrote: »Empowering Chains:
underused?
Underused only because it's unreliable in PVP. On paper it's an awesome morph, in reality it's a gap closer that gives you a too high/too low error way too often.
Thanks for adding more info. Seems like it is one more of those abilities (that are actually a ton) that need to be reworked/fixed
Dragonknight is getting quite a few changes in patch 4.0.x, none of them being a new stamina morph. However there are are some changes related to Empower buff in general and Empowering Chains in particular. The problem is that limiting it to light attacks you can't empower heavy attacks, which were already buffed by Molten Armaments.Buffs and Debuffs- Empower: This buff category now increases the damage done by your next Light Attack by 40%, instead of increasing the damage done of any attack by 20%.
Developer Comments:This makes Empower a friendly buff to use in rotations, and decreases some of the burst potential of combining it with other abilities.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5047698/#Comment_5047698Dragonknight- Ardent Flame
- Cauterize (Inferno morph): Increased the range of the heal from this morph to 28 meters from 15 meters.
- Combustion: This passive ability now also restores 250/500 Magicka or Stamina to you when you apply the Burning or
- Poisoned status effects to an enemy. These effects can occur once every 5 seconds.
- Empowering Chains (Fiery Grip morph): This morph now grants you 2 stacks of the Empower buff, up from 1.
- Shifting Standard (Dragonknight Standard morph): Decreased the cost of this morph to 225 Ultimate from 250 Ultimate.
- Draconic Power
- Reflective Plate (Reflective Scale morph): This morph now removes all snare effects from you when you cast the ability.
- Earthen Heart
- Ash Cloud: This ability now heals you and your allies in the area and snares enemies; note the Eruption morph remains unchanged.
- Cinder Storm (Ash Cloud morph): This morph now increases the healing done.
- Obsidian Shard (Stonefist morph): Increased the healing done by this morph by approximately 25%.
- Obsidian Shield: This ability now grants you Major Mending for 2.5 seconds as a baseline effect, but no longer grants you a stronger damage shield that absorbs 200% more damage. In addition, we’ve also made adjustments to both morphs:
- Igneous Shield: This morph now grants you a stronger damage shield that absorbs 200% more damage.
- Fragmented Shield: This morph now increases the duration of Major Mending to 4.5 seconds.
- Shattering Rocks (Petrify morph): This morph has been redesigned so that when the stun ends, it causes the enemy’s next attack to heal their target.
- Stone Giant (Stonefist morph): This morph now also grants Minor Ward in additional to Minor Resolve.
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Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |0 - Empower: This buff category now increases the damage done by your next Light Attack by 40%, instead of increasing the damage done of any attack by 20%.
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aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭Temeraire507 wrote: »The only class with just 2 stamina costing morphs? Maybe, but let's go over stamina in all classes:
NB has 6 stamina morphs. 5 deal damage.
+1 stam based Ult morph
+10 mag morphs that may be useful on stam in some situations (17 if you go for every little thing that can be helpful)
+5 Ult morphs that could be useful for some players
That does not really look unbalanced for me. Another useful stam ability would be nice but not really necessary imo.
It kinda depends on the morphs. DK get a magicka triggered stamina return which is really nice for dk tank/stamDK. wrt NB stamina DPS, a typical (trial) setup would include suprise attack, killers blade & relentless focus (with maybe SA or an ulti). So out of the 12 skill slots and that huge pool you listed, that's only 3 being class based because non-class skills are simply better. If you ask for stamina morphs, you may end up using the non-class skills you currently use anyway.
It's more important to have class based skills you'd actually use over an abundance of poor skills you'd not. Asking for balance in the way you have, may hurt DK more than help. For example, imagine if chains or igneous was changed to cost stamina? DK tanks would hunt you down.1 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Temeraire507 wrote: »The only class with just 2 stamina costing morphs? Maybe, but let's go over stamina in all classes:
NB has 6 stamina morphs. 5 deal damage.
+1 stam based Ult morph
+10 mag morphs that may be useful on stam in some situations (17 if you go for every little thing that can be helpful)
+5 Ult morphs that could be useful for some players
That does not really look unbalanced for me. Another useful stam ability would be nice but not really necessary imo.
It kinda depends on the morphs. DK get a magicka triggered stamina return which is really nice for dk tank/stamDK. wrt NB stamina DPS, a typical (trial) setup would include suprise attack, killers blade & relentless focus (with maybe SA or an ulti). So out of the 12 skill slots and that huge pool you listed, that's only 3 being class based because non-class skills are simply better. If you ask for stamina morphs, you may end up using the non-class skills you currently use anyway.
It's more important to have class based skills you'd actually use over an abundance of poor skills you'd not. Asking for balance in the way you have, may hurt DK more than help. For example, imagine if chains or igneous was changed to cost stamina? DK tanks would hunt you down.
I just want a buffed noxious breath.
I cant find any use for this skill that will help me better than any other option.
And it is only one of the 2 stamina costing skills.
Do basically as a stamdk I can only use one stamina costing class skill l. Effectivelly.0 -
aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »Temeraire507 wrote: »The only class with just 2 stamina costing morphs? Maybe, but let's go over stamina in all classes:
NB has 6 stamina morphs. 5 deal damage.
+1 stam based Ult morph
+10 mag morphs that may be useful on stam in some situations (17 if you go for every little thing that can be helpful)
+5 Ult morphs that could be useful for some players
That does not really look unbalanced for me. Another useful stam ability would be nice but not really necessary imo.
It kinda depends on the morphs. DK get a magicka triggered stamina return which is really nice for dk tank/stamDK. wrt NB stamina DPS, a typical (trial) setup would include suprise attack, killers blade & relentless focus (with maybe SA or an ulti). So out of the 12 skill slots and that huge pool you listed, that's only 3 being class based because non-class skills are simply better. If you ask for stamina morphs, you may end up using the non-class skills you currently use anyway.
It's more important to have class based skills you'd actually use over an abundance of poor skills you'd not. Asking for balance in the way you have, may hurt DK more than help. For example, imagine if chains or igneous was changed to cost stamina? DK tanks would hunt you down.
I just want a buffed noxious breath.
I cant find any use for this skill that will help me better than any other option.
And it is only one of the 2 stamina costing skills.
Do basically as a stamdk I can only use one stamina costing class skill l. Effectivelly.
Pretty poor eh? - the class skills should all be slightly better/useful/cheaper than the non-class versions in my eyes. But there should also be gaps where some classes get some skills and others get different ones. Ward is a good example. Every class gets major resolve & ward, and it's also available on a non-class skill. It's literally everywhere.
I'd like to see a set of core non-class skills so all bases are covered and every class can perform every role fairly well, with some class flavour added. You could even make every non-class pure magical/physical damage, and flavour classes via damage type. Literally replacing skills like for like+flavour/minor upgrades.
And it looks like Summerset is heading this way in a lot of regards
Would like to see a lot more degrading things too, so for example damage trails off over time. A DOT may be 50% as effective after 5 seconds. Your sustain would indicate how often you refreshed it. Or more fights where mobs could get resistance vs certain damage types over time, so different skills need switching in to be more effective.
Please bare in mind, that it's useful to have some skills cost (like molten armaments or flames of oblivion, where it costs magicka but scales off stamina) not coming from your primary resource pool, it really helps sustain. If all your skills cost stamina, you would get resource issues. All stamblade skills cost stamina, almost forces sets like VO to be worn
Edited by aeowulf on April 30, 2018 12:54PM0 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »Temeraire507 wrote: »The only class with just 2 stamina costing morphs? Maybe, but let's go over stamina in all classes:
NB has 6 stamina morphs. 5 deal damage.
+1 stam based Ult morph
+10 mag morphs that may be useful on stam in some situations (17 if you go for every little thing that can be helpful)
+5 Ult morphs that could be useful for some players
That does not really look unbalanced for me. Another useful stam ability would be nice but not really necessary imo.
It kinda depends on the morphs. DK get a magicka triggered stamina return which is really nice for dk tank/stamDK. wrt NB stamina DPS, a typical (trial) setup would include suprise attack, killers blade & relentless focus (with maybe SA or an ulti). So out of the 12 skill slots and that huge pool you listed, that's only 3 being class based because non-class skills are simply better. If you ask for stamina morphs, you may end up using the non-class skills you currently use anyway.
It's more important to have class based skills you'd actually use over an abundance of poor skills you'd not. Asking for balance in the way you have, may hurt DK more than help. For example, imagine if chains or igneous was changed to cost stamina? DK tanks would hunt you down.
I just want a buffed noxious breath.
I cant find any use for this skill that will help me better than any other option.
And it is only one of the 2 stamina costing skills.
Do basically as a stamdk I can only use one stamina costing class skill l. Effectivelly.
Pretty poor eh? - the class skills should all be slightly better/useful/cheaper than the non-class versions in my eyes. But there should also be gaps where some classes get some skills and others get different ones. Ward is a good example. Every class gets major resolve & ward, and it's also available on a non-class skill. It's literally everywhere.
I'd like to see a set of core non-class skills so all bases are covered and every class can perform every role fairly well, with some class flavour added. You could even make every non-class pure magical/physical damage, and flavour classes via damage type. Literally replacing skills like for like+flavour/minor upgrades.
And it looks like Summerset is heading this way in a lot of regards Would like to see a lot more degrading things too, so for example damage trails off over time. A DOT may be 50% as effective after 5 seconds. Your sustain would indicate how often you refreshed it. Or more fights where mobs could get resistance vs certain damage types over time, so different skills need switching in to be more effective.
Please bare in mind, that it's useful to have some skills cost (like molten armaments or flames of oblivion, where it costs magicka but scales off stamina) not coming from your primary resource pool, it really helps sustain. If all your skills cost stamina, you would get resource issues. All stamblade skills cost stamina, almost forces sets like VO to be worn
I just want my useless noxious breath to be buffes.
We only have 2 stamina costing class skills and one of them is useless.
Cant say it more plainly.0 -
NegativeVibes✭✭✭
I mean, sorc only has hurricane and bound arnaments and one of them is a toggle.GeorgeBlack wrote: »Out of all the classes only DragonKnight has 2 stamina morphs and one of them, Noxious Breath is extremely weak. Thats right.
Everything else costs magicka for utility.2 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NegativeVibes wrote: »
I mean, sorc only has hurricane and bound arnaments and one of them is a toggle.GeorgeBlack wrote: »Out of all the classes only DragonKnight has 2 stamina morphs and one of them, Noxious Breath is extremely weak. Thats right.
Everything else costs magicka for utility.
Sorc has 3 stamina costing skills and all of them are usefull tools.
StamDK has 2 stamina costing skills and noxious breath is useless
Every effect that a sorc can use that consumes stamina is better than noxious breathEdited by GeorgeBlack on April 30, 2018 1:17PM1
