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PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
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...and on a magicka sorc I use det pot for the same effect, alternatively streak over them or basically prevent them from doing anything by dropping mines.
There's no way to currently survive magicka sorcerer on PTS as a medium armor stamblade. It's even worse than magicka DKs were when Power Lash was undodgeable, and that's saying a lot.
Hell, there's no way to survive mag sorc even with Legion/Truth heavy armor, you need S&B 30k+ health tank to do that.
The key to surviving magsorc on pts is impreg imo.
But it´s a useless discussion - we agree that runecage isn´t healthy for the game and the buff should be changed to something different.
If a NB dies to you using a det pot sth went wrong. I don´t think one of my duels vs cyndis ever endet bc of det pots (he did kill himself in mines couple of times though).<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Duke, you need that six seconds preparation against any player, not only tanks. We have no good sustained pressure to kill without burst. In fact, we're struggling to kill without ult. You are vastly overestimating the abilities of sorcs.
My attitude is not toxic, it's productive. I don't come into more or less competitive PvP and demand the game balances around my build. No game does that, not even Skyrim or Oblivion in singleplayer PvE. You're not bringing a knife to a gunfight and expect it to get buffed to shoot lasers, because you lost.2 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No, Duke. NBs don't NEED more undodgable stuff. You can already drain stam with Cripple. Then Fear bugCCs, and you have two of the most powerful, easily-available moves to finish with Incap and Merciless (or morphs).
A sorc prepares a burst over six seconds. SIX. SECONDS. Shield, shield, Curse, Fury, Reach, Frag. That is a ton of time, pressure and resources lost to a simple, casual roll. That's the difference that hampers sorcs so much. The effort in no way justifies the payoff.
Regarding your bowbow build, ah, no offense, but I have little regard for non-meta builds in balancing discussion. That's not to say yours was bad, or so, but I won't waste time on discussing bow magsorcs or DW petsorcs or double resto magsorcs when 99% are playing destro/resto. It's just not relevant to the meta.
I've played my sorc on PTS today and fighting medium armor builds feels like a walk in the park, I think that you haven't even tried to play on PTS at this point. What tradeoff are you talking about? Being able to instagib everyone who isn't a full tank out of the safety from spammable shields, mines and hitbox hiding behind Attronach or pets is balance for you?
I don't think that sorc is overpowered, nor do I want to nerf them. I think that this is a good time to buff the survivability of medium armor builds at this point, it's no fun to play it on PTS, you just get instagibbed (it's even debatble if you can stand a chance on a tanky stamina duel build which is 1) garbage in open world and 2) garbage in everything which is group related).
...and on a magicka sorc I use det pot for the same effect, alternatively streak over them or basically prevent them from doing anything by dropping mines.
There's no way to currently survive magicka sorcerer on PTS as a medium armor stamblade. It's even worse than magicka DKs were when Power Lash was undodgeable, and that's saying a lot.
Hell, there's no way to survive mag sorc even with Legion/Truth heavy armor, you need S&B 30k+ health tank to do that.
The key to surviving magsorc on pts is impreg imo.
But it´s a useless discussion - we agree that runecage isn´t healthy for the game and the buff should be changed to something different.
If a NB dies to you using a det pot sth went wrong. I don´t think one of my duels vs cyndis ever endet bc of det pots (he did kill himself in mines couple of times though).
Don't worry, next patch you can instagib me every time. Good for me that you aren't one of these sorcs who uploads exposing videos I guess
I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Duke, you need that six seconds preparation against any player, not only tanks. We have no good sustained pressure to kill without burst. In fact, we're struggling to kill without ult. You are vastly overestimating the abilities of sorcs.
No, you don't.
Maybe you just need to get a bit better at the game.
How many of these kills require six seconds preparation?
https://youtu.be/hfK4dBy73Ro
https://youtu.be/7tTa6uyf6ZQ
If you want to kill with less preparation required, go play an overload gank build:
https://youtu.be/DCHSKRqUodQ
...oh right I forgot, you only play the most popular and most unoriginal meta builds.My attitude is not toxic, it's productive. I don't come into more or less competitive PvP and demand the game balances around my build. No game does that, not even Skyrim or Oblivion in singleplayer PvE. You're not bringing a knife to a gunfight and expect it to get buffed to shoot lasers, because you lost.
That is exactly what you do: you come into PvP and expect everything to be balanced around the unoriginal meta build you're playing, when a healthy game requires a healthy amount of build diversity to choose from - which means balancing around all variety of builds (even making balance changes to promote less popular ones).
And pls, that "knife to a gunfight" argument would work if my less popular build was any less effective than the popular meta builds. I kill more people than the meta rollerblades on my bowblade in less than half the time it takes them.
See, I also hate rolling around trees & towers for 15 minutes gathering Relentless stacks (one could call that a lot of "preparation") to Incap->Relentless noobs with low reaction time while pretending to be some super skilled player.
So rather than just playing those meta builds, I create something different that works and is actually enjoyable to play - nothing prevents you from doing the same on Sorc if you dislike the playstyle that requires lots of "preparation" to get kills.Edited by DDuke on April 28, 2018 5:37PM1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
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...and on a magicka sorc I use det pot for the same effect, alternatively streak over them or basically prevent them from doing anything by dropping mines.
There's no way to currently survive magicka sorcerer on PTS as a medium armor stamblade. It's even worse than magicka DKs were when Power Lash was undodgeable, and that's saying a lot.
Hell, there's no way to survive mag sorc even with Legion/Truth heavy armor, you need S&B 30k+ health tank to do that.
The key to surviving magsorc on pts is impreg imo.
But it´s a useless discussion - we agree that runecage isn´t healthy for the game and the buff should be changed to something different.
If a NB dies to you using a det pot sth went wrong. I don´t think one of my duels vs cyndis ever endet bc of det pots (he did kill himself in mines couple of times though).
I don’t see the problem. For the last year all we’ve heard from these d-bag murderblades is ‘Blaaah use a detect pot and L2P!!’
Despite the fact that detect pots don’t mix with speed, the cooldown is LONG, and nightblades are still immune to ranged damage when popped.
So nightblades. Don’t like the new rune cage? Use an immobile pot. L2P.
I don’t like the changes much, but murderblades really have ZERO business complaining. You’re invisible, you get every buff and debuff in the game, you get a spammable instant murder ultimate that nobody can honestly avoid after a fear or stun, and 90% of you are running builds that kill you before you can stand up. Sure good players don’t die in one rotation, but do you have any idea how much it SUCKS to fight a class with all of your ridiculous advantages? Now you will.
DKs can reflect the best part of our burst and heal up.
Templars can purge off the best parts with a key press.
Wardens can outheal it and ignore all projectiles.
Sorcs can just spam hardened ward after breaking Cage.
That just leaves you nightblades, eat it!
Edited by Minalan on April 28, 2018 6:25PM10 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
...and on a magicka sorc I use det pot for the same effect, alternatively streak over them or basically prevent them from doing anything by dropping mines.
There's no way to currently survive magicka sorcerer on PTS as a medium armor stamblade. It's even worse than magicka DKs were when Power Lash was undodgeable, and that's saying a lot.
Hell, there's no way to survive mag sorc even with Legion/Truth heavy armor, you need S&B 30k+ health tank to do that.
The key to surviving magsorc on pts is impreg imo.
But it´s a useless discussion - we agree that runecage isn´t healthy for the game and the buff should be changed to something different.
If a NB dies to you using a det pot sth went wrong. I don´t think one of my duels vs cyndis ever endet bc of det pots (he did kill himself in mines couple of times though).
I don’t see the problem. For the last year all we’ve heard from these d-bag murderblades is ‘Blaaah use a detect pot and L2P!!’
Despite the fact that detect pots don’t mix with speed, the cooldown is LONG, and nightblades are still immune to ranged damage when popped.
So nightblades. Don’t like the new rune cage? Use an immobile pot. L2P.
I don’t like the changes much, but murderblades really have ZERO business complaining. You’re invisible, you get every buff and debuff in the game, you get a spammable instant murder ultimate that nobody can honestly avoid after a fear or stun, and 90% of you are running builds that kill you before you can stand up. Sure good players don’t die in one rotation, but do you have any idea how much it SUCKS to fight a class with all of your ridiculous advantages? Now you will.
DKs can reflect the best part of our burst and heal up.
Templars can purge off the best parts with a key press.
Wardens can outheal it and ignore all projectiles.
Sorcs can just spam hardened ward after breaking Cage.
That just leaves you nightblades, eat it!
Lmao.
You are comparing things that can't be compared.
It's hard for you to kill a class without using a potion, so you deserve to one shot them if they don't use a potion to counter a 7s cooldown ability for 10s (with 45s cooldown)?
...What?
I get it (we all do) that you hate NBs, but try to listen to how ridiculous that sounds. How ridiculous the whole rant sounds.
Also, I'd like to see the medium armor stam sorc that survives this, or any class that is 1vX'ing & then suddenly gets a 9-10k rune cage+frag through block/dodge roll to the face.
You're letting all this NB hatred blind you from seeing the big picture.4 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
...and on a magicka sorc I use det pot for the same effect, alternatively streak over them or basically prevent them from doing anything by dropping mines.
There's no way to currently survive magicka sorcerer on PTS as a medium armor stamblade. It's even worse than magicka DKs were when Power Lash was undodgeable, and that's saying a lot.
Hell, there's no way to survive mag sorc even with Legion/Truth heavy armor, you need S&B 30k+ health tank to do that.
The key to surviving magsorc on pts is impreg imo.
But it´s a useless discussion - we agree that runecage isn´t healthy for the game and the buff should be changed to something different.
If a NB dies to you using a det pot sth went wrong. I don´t think one of my duels vs cyndis ever endet bc of det pots (he did kill himself in mines couple of times though).
I don’t see the problem. For the last year all we’ve heard from these d-bag murderblades is ‘Blaaah use a detect pot and L2P!!’
Despite the fact that detect pots don’t mix with speed, the cooldown is LONG, and nightblades are still immune to ranged damage when popped.
So nightblades. Don’t like the new rune cage? Use an immobile pot. L2P.
I don’t like the changes much, but murderblades really have ZERO business complaining. You’re invisible, you get every buff and debuff in the game, you get a spammable instant murder ultimate that nobody can honestly avoid after a fear or stun, and 90% of you are running builds that kill you before you can stand up. Sure good players don’t die in one rotation, but do you have any idea how much it SUCKS to fight a class with all of your ridiculous advantages? Now you will.
DKs can reflect the best part of our burst and heal up.
Templars can purge off the best parts with a key press.
Wardens can outheal it and ignore all projectiles.
Sorcs can just spam hardened ward after breaking Cage.
That just leaves you nightblades, eat it!
Lmao.
You are comparing things that can't be compared.
It's hard for you to kill a class without using a potion, so you deserve to one shot them if they don't use a potion to counter a 7s cooldown ability for 10s (with 45s cooldown)?
...What?
I get it (we all do) that you hate NBs, but try to listen to how ridiculous that sounds. How ridiculous the whole rant sounds.
Also, I'd like to see the medium armor stam sorc that survives this, or any class that is 1vX'ing & then suddenly gets a 9-10k rune cage+frag through block/dodge roll to the face.
You're letting all this NB hatred blind you from seeing the big picture.
You know, I wouldn’t hate fighting your class so much if I could actually HIT you after a detect pot, but I can’t. Spamming cloak gives 100% dodge chance for ranged abilities, which is EVERYTHING in my arsenal. You make one mistake, you cloak off and heal. I make one? Death.
So the fact is you have no real counters. Now you do. If you can’t survive a 4K stun, you need to reconsider your build. We USED to be able to kill you if we caught you with a frag, the 10-12K empowered damage and stun together let us follow up for the kill. But you all whined and got that nerfed.
You’ve been telling Sorcs to change our build and L2P for years if we couldn’t survive a bow instant gank - or If we can’t survive instant death because we don’t travel with shields up. How does it FEEL?!Edited by Minalan on April 28, 2018 7:13PM8 -
Murador178✭✭✭✭no worries guys next patch everybody will run sload. It kills sorcs/mag nbs, block chars and permabreaks cloak. Its the ultimate utility set
. It has viper damage in oblivion , is crafted, and has 100% uptime. Edited by Murador178 on April 28, 2018 7:25PM1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
...and on a magicka sorc I use det pot for the same effect, alternatively streak over them or basically prevent them from doing anything by dropping mines.
There's no way to currently survive magicka sorcerer on PTS as a medium armor stamblade. It's even worse than magicka DKs were when Power Lash was undodgeable, and that's saying a lot.
Hell, there's no way to survive mag sorc even with Legion/Truth heavy armor, you need S&B 30k+ health tank to do that.
The key to surviving magsorc on pts is impreg imo.
But it´s a useless discussion - we agree that runecage isn´t healthy for the game and the buff should be changed to something different.
If a NB dies to you using a det pot sth went wrong. I don´t think one of my duels vs cyndis ever endet bc of det pots (he did kill himself in mines couple of times though).
I don’t see the problem. For the last year all we’ve heard from these d-bag murderblades is ‘Blaaah use a detect pot and L2P!!’
Despite the fact that detect pots don’t mix with speed, the cooldown is LONG, and nightblades are still immune to ranged damage when popped.
So nightblades. Don’t like the new rune cage? Use an immobile pot. L2P.
I don’t like the changes much, but murderblades really have ZERO business complaining. You’re invisible, you get every buff and debuff in the game, you get a spammable instant murder ultimate that nobody can honestly avoid after a fear or stun, and 90% of you are running builds that kill you before you can stand up. Sure good players don’t die in one rotation, but do you have any idea how much it SUCKS to fight a class with all of your ridiculous advantages? Now you will.
DKs can reflect the best part of our burst and heal up.
Templars can purge off the best parts with a key press.
Wardens can outheal it and ignore all projectiles.
Sorcs can just spam hardened ward after breaking Cage.
That just leaves you nightblades, eat it!
Lmao.
You are comparing things that can't be compared.
It's hard for you to kill a class without using a potion, so you deserve to one shot them if they don't use a potion to counter a 7s cooldown ability for 10s (with 45s cooldown)?
...What?
I get it (we all do) that you hate NBs, but try to listen to how ridiculous that sounds. How ridiculous the whole rant sounds.
Also, I'd like to see the medium armor stam sorc that survives this, or any class that is 1vX'ing & then suddenly gets a 9-10k rune cage+frag through block/dodge roll to the face.
You're letting all this NB hatred blind you from seeing the big picture.
You know, I wouldn’t hate fighting your class so much if I could actually HIT you after a detect pot, but I can’t. Spamming cloak gives 100% dodge chance for ranged abilities, which is EVERYTHING in my arsenal. You make one mistake, you cloak off and heal. I make one? Death.
I wouldn't know because I've never played a build that can afford spamming cloak more than 3-4 times in a row (well, except on my magicka NB but even that had "pretty low" sustain as Spinners+Caluurion high dmg build).
And you know what, all hyperboles aside I can actually agree that someone shouldn't be able to spam cloak to avoid all projectiles.
But do you know why they made it so that first projectile is a guaranteed miss? Because previously the inbound projectile didn't just deal damage if you cloaked while it was on its way, it completely broke cloak & wasted the entire cast (especially in 1vX, where there always were inbound projectiles).
If ZOS can find a way to make projectiles cast while using det pot hit you then perfect, problem solved.
Just removing the guaranteed miss though would resurface those cloak bugs that plagued the class for over a year after they changed cloak from invis+purge to its current version.So the fact is you have no real counters. Now you do. If you can’t survive a 4K stun, you need to reconsider your build. We USED to be able to kill you if we caught you with a frag, the 10-12K empowered damage and stun together let us follow up for the kill. But you all whined and got that nerfed.
Well, you started well and now we're back to hyperboles & "play a tank build like everyone else!" comments.
If I can't survive a 9-10k tooltip damage (if crit, then equivalent to a "free Selene/Caluurion proc") tied to an undodgeable ability that lets you land multiple other abilities, the solution isn't that I, and everyone else playing a non-tank build, switches to some cancer heavy armor S&B build with Legion+Truth & 6k weapon damage. What the actual *** does that solve?
The solution is that undodgeable/blockable abilities don't get high tooltips, especially on classes that already have high burst potential.
Sheesh, one would think ZOS already learned this with the undodgeable Power Lashes that made medium armor builds unplayable.You’ve been telling Sorcs to change our build and L2P for years if we couldn’t survive a bow instant gank - or If we can’t survive instant death because we don’t travel with shields up. How does it FEEL?!
Ah yes. Thing is, you're still going to have to keep shields up 24/7 - they didn't make you any tankier.
Besides, you can do that on a sorc as well with overload gank build (which in Summerset is more dmg than Asylum Snipe btw!) and keep those 30k+ shields to prevent from getting one shot in return.
How does that feel? Pretty balanced, huh?
Overall I'd be much happier if stealth builds had some other type of viable gameplay, but at the moment you either one shot people or you play a sustain dodge roll spam build - those are your options. There's no stunlocking from stealth in ESO, there's no stealth combat bars or specific stealth skills like in games like WoW, B&S, GW2, BDO etc - there's just one shotting.
I'm all for changing that to something better, but what we've got atm is what we've got.Edited by DDuke on April 28, 2018 7:57PM2 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
...and on a magicka sorc I use det pot for the same effect, alternatively streak over them or basically prevent them from doing anything by dropping mines.
There's no way to currently survive magicka sorcerer on PTS as a medium armor stamblade. It's even worse than magicka DKs were when Power Lash was undodgeable, and that's saying a lot.
Hell, there's no way to survive mag sorc even with Legion/Truth heavy armor, you need S&B 30k+ health tank to do that.
The key to surviving magsorc on pts is impreg imo.
But it´s a useless discussion - we agree that runecage isn´t healthy for the game and the buff should be changed to something different.
If a NB dies to you using a det pot sth went wrong. I don´t think one of my duels vs cyndis ever endet bc of det pots (he did kill himself in mines couple of times though).
I don’t see the problem. For the last year all we’ve heard from these d-bag murderblades is ‘Blaaah use a detect pot and L2P!!’
Despite the fact that detect pots don’t mix with speed, the cooldown is LONG, and nightblades are still immune to ranged damage when popped.
So nightblades. Don’t like the new rune cage? Use an immobile pot. L2P.
I don’t like the changes much, but murderblades really have ZERO business complaining. You’re invisible, you get every buff and debuff in the game, you get a spammable instant murder ultimate that nobody can honestly avoid after a fear or stun, and 90% of you are running builds that kill you before you can stand up. Sure good players don’t die in one rotation, but do you have any idea how much it SUCKS to fight a class with all of your ridiculous advantages? Now you will.
DKs can reflect the best part of our burst and heal up.
Templars can purge off the best parts with a key press.
Wardens can outheal it and ignore all projectiles.
Sorcs can just spam hardened ward after breaking Cage.
That just leaves you nightblades, eat it!
Lmao.
You are comparing things that can't be compared.
It's hard for you to kill a class without using a potion, so you deserve to one shot them if they don't use a potion to counter a 7s cooldown ability for 10s (with 45s cooldown)?
...What?
I get it (we all do) that you hate NBs, but try to listen to how ridiculous that sounds. How ridiculous the whole rant sounds.
Also, I'd like to see the medium armor stam sorc that survives this, or any class that is 1vX'ing & then suddenly gets a 9-10k rune cage+frag through block/dodge roll to the face.
You're letting all this NB hatred blind you from seeing the big picture.
You know, I wouldn’t hate fighting your class so much if I could actually HIT you after a detect pot, but I can’t. Spamming cloak gives 100% dodge chance for ranged abilities, which is EVERYTHING in my arsenal. You make one mistake, you cloak off and heal. I make one? Death.
So the fact is you have no real counters. Now you do. If you can’t survive a 4K stun, you need to reconsider your build. We USED to be able to kill you if we caught you with a frag, the 10-12K empowered damage and stun together let us follow up for the kill. But you all whined and got that nerfed.
You’ve been telling Sorcs to change our build and L2P for years if we couldn’t survive a bow instant gank - or If we can’t survive instant death because we don’t travel with shields up. How does it FEEL?!
I don't say that Cloak is balanced but your anti stamina agenda is laughable. Why don't you play a stam build for once by yourself (for example a medium armor build, not some duel cheese with heavy armor, bleedstack, lingering health pots and lolking which is complete garbage and irrelevant in every scenario which isn't a duel - even tho I think that I can tear this *** apart as soon as I slot pets but whatever).
I remember the time when sorcs were able to kill a med armor build with one frag hit. Do you want to pretend that this was balanced? Sorcs hiding behind shieldstack + Major Protection who only need to hit one frag to win the fight? This would maybe be acceptable if they would have one shield with around 40k magicka...
You can just slot Sloads next patch, it actually does break Cloak and a med armor Nb won't be able to use their defense skill anymore. I did never play a gankbuild nor do I defend or use shieldbreaker, Shattering Blows or oblivion damage in general but my playstyle will still get crushed with the upcoming patch. That's what you wanted I hope. You aren't any better than any the "forumblades" who have an agenda.
And no, I don't think that sorc will be overpowered but I think that it's a good time to give medium armor a bit more survivability (and give light armor for non sorcs a bit defense against snares and roots while we are at it).Edited by Ragnaroek93 on April 28, 2018 7:59PMI used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
...and on a magicka sorc I use det pot for the same effect, alternatively streak over them or basically prevent them from doing anything by dropping mines.
There's no way to currently survive magicka sorcerer on PTS as a medium armor stamblade. It's even worse than magicka DKs were when Power Lash was undodgeable, and that's saying a lot.
Hell, there's no way to survive mag sorc even with Legion/Truth heavy armor, you need S&B 30k+ health tank to do that.
The key to surviving magsorc on pts is impreg imo.
But it´s a useless discussion - we agree that runecage isn´t healthy for the game and the buff should be changed to something different.
If a NB dies to you using a det pot sth went wrong. I don´t think one of my duels vs cyndis ever endet bc of det pots (he did kill himself in mines couple of times though).
I don’t see the problem. For the last year all we’ve heard from these d-bag murderblades is ‘Blaaah use a detect pot and L2P!!’
Despite the fact that detect pots don’t mix with speed, the cooldown is LONG, and nightblades are still immune to ranged damage when popped.
So nightblades. Don’t like the new rune cage? Use an immobile pot. L2P.
I don’t like the changes much, but murderblades really have ZERO business complaining. You’re invisible, you get every buff and debuff in the game, you get a spammable instant murder ultimate that nobody can honestly avoid after a fear or stun, and 90% of you are running builds that kill you before you can stand up. Sure good players don’t die in one rotation, but do you have any idea how much it SUCKS to fight a class with all of your ridiculous advantages? Now you will.
DKs can reflect the best part of our burst and heal up.
Templars can purge off the best parts with a key press.
Wardens can outheal it and ignore all projectiles.
Sorcs can just spam hardened ward after breaking Cage.
That just leaves you nightblades, eat it!
Lmao.
You are comparing things that can't be compared.
It's hard for you to kill a class without using a potion, so you deserve to one shot them if they don't use a potion to counter a 7s cooldown ability for 10s (with 45s cooldown)?
...What?
I get it (we all do) that you hate NBs, but try to listen to how ridiculous that sounds. How ridiculous the whole rant sounds.
Also, I'd like to see the medium armor stam sorc that survives this, or any class that is 1vX'ing & then suddenly gets a 9-10k rune cage+frag through block/dodge roll to the face.
You're letting all this NB hatred blind you from seeing the big picture.
You know, I wouldn’t hate fighting your class so much if I could actually HIT you after a detect pot, but I can’t. Spamming cloak gives 100% dodge chance for ranged abilities, which is EVERYTHING in my arsenal. You make one mistake, you cloak off and heal. I make one? Death.
So the fact is you have no real counters. Now you do. If you can’t survive a 4K stun, you need to reconsider your build. We USED to be able to kill you if we caught you with a frag, the 10-12K empowered damage and stun together let us follow up for the kill. But you all whined and got that nerfed.
You’ve been telling Sorcs to change our build and L2P for years if we couldn’t survive a bow instant gank - or If we can’t survive instant death because we don’t travel with shields up. How does it FEEL?!
I don't say that Cloak is balanced but your anti stamina agenda is laughable. Why don't you play a stam build for once by yourself (for example a medium armor build, not some duel cheese with heavy armor, bleedstack, lingering health pots and lolking which is complete garbage and irrelevant in every scenario which isn't a duel - even tho I think that I can tear this *** apart as soon as I slot pets but whatever).
I remember the time when sorcs were able to kill a med armor build with one frag hit. Do you want to pretend that this was balanced? Sorcs hiding behind shieldstack + Major Protection who only need to hit one frag to win the fight? This would maybe be acceptable if they would have one shield with around 40k magicka...
You can just slot Sloads next patch, it actually does break Cloak and a med armor Nb won't be able to use their defense skill anymore. I did never play a gankbuild nor do I defend or use shieldbreaker, Shattering Blows or oblivion damage in general but my playstyle will still get crushed with the upcoming patch. That's what you wanted I hope. You aren't any better than any the "forumblades" who have an agenda.
And no, I don't think that sorc will be overpowered but I think that it's a good time to give medium armor a bit more survivability (and give light armor for non sorcs a bit defense against snares and roots while we are at it).
If sloads breaks cloak, mark my words it won’t last. Nothing in this game survives angry forumblades.
You’d really need to push damage to one shot a medium armor build, but you know- you cant do that anymore. They nerfed sharpened. They nerfed Spinner. They took 10% damage off frags. You can’t empower anymore. The whole game armor mechanics changed, and they STILL took the stun off after all that.
You realize that a LIGHT ATTACK is going to land for 6-7K this patch right? Putting frags on your bar is almost waste of time in this meta. Why use an easily telegraphed ability on a one third proc chance? You can replace frags with degeneration and get more dependable light attack burst. Weave it with pulse and they might not even see the LA.
You’ve nerfed our one best damage skill into the dirt. Enjoy the unavoidable cages.Edited by Minalan on April 28, 2018 8:23PM2 -
Murador178✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
...and on a magicka sorc I use det pot for the same effect, alternatively streak over them or basically prevent them from doing anything by dropping mines.
There's no way to currently survive magicka sorcerer on PTS as a medium armor stamblade. It's even worse than magicka DKs were when Power Lash was undodgeable, and that's saying a lot.
Hell, there's no way to survive mag sorc even with Legion/Truth heavy armor, you need S&B 30k+ health tank to do that.
The key to surviving magsorc on pts is impreg imo.
But it´s a useless discussion - we agree that runecage isn´t healthy for the game and the buff should be changed to something different.
If a NB dies to you using a det pot sth went wrong. I don´t think one of my duels vs cyndis ever endet bc of det pots (he did kill himself in mines couple of times though).
I don’t see the problem. For the last year all we’ve heard from these d-bag murderblades is ‘Blaaah use a detect pot and L2P!!’
Despite the fact that detect pots don’t mix with speed, the cooldown is LONG, and nightblades are still immune to ranged damage when popped.
So nightblades. Don’t like the new rune cage? Use an immobile pot. L2P.
I don’t like the changes much, but murderblades really have ZERO business complaining. You’re invisible, you get every buff and debuff in the game, you get a spammable instant murder ultimate that nobody can honestly avoid after a fear or stun, and 90% of you are running builds that kill you before you can stand up. Sure good players don’t die in one rotation, but do you have any idea how much it SUCKS to fight a class with all of your ridiculous advantages? Now you will.
DKs can reflect the best part of our burst and heal up.
Templars can purge off the best parts with a key press.
Wardens can outheal it and ignore all projectiles.
Sorcs can just spam hardened ward after breaking Cage.
That just leaves you nightblades, eat it!
Lmao.
You are comparing things that can't be compared.
It's hard for you to kill a class without using a potion, so you deserve to one shot them if they don't use a potion to counter a 7s cooldown ability for 10s (with 45s cooldown)?
...What?
I get it (we all do) that you hate NBs, but try to listen to how ridiculous that sounds. How ridiculous the whole rant sounds.
Also, I'd like to see the medium armor stam sorc that survives this, or any class that is 1vX'ing & then suddenly gets a 9-10k rune cage+frag through block/dodge roll to the face.
You're letting all this NB hatred blind you from seeing the big picture.
You know, I wouldn’t hate fighting your class so much if I could actually HIT you after a detect pot, but I can’t. Spamming cloak gives 100% dodge chance for ranged abilities, which is EVERYTHING in my arsenal. You make one mistake, you cloak off and heal. I make one? Death.
So the fact is you have no real counters. Now you do. If you can’t survive a 4K stun, you need to reconsider your build. We USED to be able to kill you if we caught you with a frag, the 10-12K empowered damage and stun together let us follow up for the kill. But you all whined and got that nerfed.
You’ve been telling Sorcs to change our build and L2P for years if we couldn’t survive a bow instant gank - or If we can’t survive instant death because we don’t travel with shields up. How does it FEEL?!
I don't say that Cloak is balanced but your anti stamina agenda is laughable. Why don't you play a stam build for once by yourself (for example a medium armor build, not some duel cheese with heavy armor, bleedstack, lingering health pots and lolking which is complete garbage and irrelevant in every scenario which isn't a duel - even tho I think that I can tear this *** apart as soon as I slot pets but whatever).
I remember the time when sorcs were able to kill a med armor build with one frag hit. Do you want to pretend that this was balanced? Sorcs hiding behind shieldstack + Major Protection who only need to hit one frag to win the fight? This would maybe be acceptable if they would have one shield with around 40k magicka...
You can just slot Sloads next patch, it actually does break Cloak and a med armor Nb won't be able to use their defense skill anymore. I did never play a gankbuild nor do I defend or use shieldbreaker, Shattering Blows or oblivion damage in general but my playstyle will still get crushed with the upcoming patch. That's what you wanted I hope. You aren't any better than any the "forumblades" who have an agenda.
And no, I don't think that sorc will be overpowered but I think that it's a good time to give medium armor a bit more survivability (and give light armor for non sorcs a bit defense against snares and roots while we are at it).
If sloads breaks cloak, mark my words it won’t last. Nothing in this game survives angry forumblades.
You’d really need to push damage to one shot a medium armor build, but you know- you cant do that anymore. They nerfed sharpened. They nerfed Spinner. They took 10% damage off frags. You can’t empower anymore. The whole game armor mechanics changed, and they STILL took the stun off after all that.
You realize that a LIGHT ATTACK is going to land for 6-7K this patch right? Putting frags on your bar is almost waste of time in this meta. Why use an easily telegraphed ability on a one third proc chance? You can replace frags with degeneration and get more dependable light attack burst. Weave it with pulse and they might not even see the LA.
You’ve nerfed our one best damage skill into the dirt. Enjoy the unavoidable cages.
On ur statement concerning frags. I dont see myself running degeneration over frags anytime soon. So i would like to see ur sorc on the pts.
I dont think this patch will be fun for anybody:
-rollerblade is in general not tanky enuf not only vs sorc with the increased dmg +mark
-sorc will get screwed my every Xv1 monkey running obilivion damage
- mNB - look above + any zerg runs mark anyways
- magplar/templar (bad solo anyways)
- stam dk dead since some patches
- stam warden and mDK might be quite decent bc they can shimmering shield/wing those crazy light attacks but they are immobile
- mageden- no comment
Sets/abiities hardcountering classes should not be a thing...Edited by Murador178 on April 28, 2018 8:52PM2 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
...and on a magicka sorc I use det pot for the same effect, alternatively streak over them or basically prevent them from doing anything by dropping mines.
There's no way to currently survive magicka sorcerer on PTS as a medium armor stamblade. It's even worse than magicka DKs were when Power Lash was undodgeable, and that's saying a lot.
Hell, there's no way to survive mag sorc even with Legion/Truth heavy armor, you need S&B 30k+ health tank to do that.
The key to surviving magsorc on pts is impreg imo.
But it´s a useless discussion - we agree that runecage isn´t healthy for the game and the buff should be changed to something different.
If a NB dies to you using a det pot sth went wrong. I don´t think one of my duels vs cyndis ever endet bc of det pots (he did kill himself in mines couple of times though).
I don’t see the problem. For the last year all we’ve heard from these d-bag murderblades is ‘Blaaah use a detect pot and L2P!!’
Despite the fact that detect pots don’t mix with speed, the cooldown is LONG, and nightblades are still immune to ranged damage when popped.
So nightblades. Don’t like the new rune cage? Use an immobile pot. L2P.
I don’t like the changes much, but murderblades really have ZERO business complaining. You’re invisible, you get every buff and debuff in the game, you get a spammable instant murder ultimate that nobody can honestly avoid after a fear or stun, and 90% of you are running builds that kill you before you can stand up. Sure good players don’t die in one rotation, but do you have any idea how much it SUCKS to fight a class with all of your ridiculous advantages? Now you will.
DKs can reflect the best part of our burst and heal up.
Templars can purge off the best parts with a key press.
Wardens can outheal it and ignore all projectiles.
Sorcs can just spam hardened ward after breaking Cage.
That just leaves you nightblades, eat it!
Lmao.
You are comparing things that can't be compared.
It's hard for you to kill a class without using a potion, so you deserve to one shot them if they don't use a potion to counter a 7s cooldown ability for 10s (with 45s cooldown)?
...What?
I get it (we all do) that you hate NBs, but try to listen to how ridiculous that sounds. How ridiculous the whole rant sounds.
Also, I'd like to see the medium armor stam sorc that survives this, or any class that is 1vX'ing & then suddenly gets a 9-10k rune cage+frag through block/dodge roll to the face.
You're letting all this NB hatred blind you from seeing the big picture.
You know, I wouldn’t hate fighting your class so much if I could actually HIT you after a detect pot, but I can’t. Spamming cloak gives 100% dodge chance for ranged abilities, which is EVERYTHING in my arsenal. You make one mistake, you cloak off and heal. I make one? Death.
So the fact is you have no real counters. Now you do. If you can’t survive a 4K stun, you need to reconsider your build. We USED to be able to kill you if we caught you with a frag, the 10-12K empowered damage and stun together let us follow up for the kill. But you all whined and got that nerfed.
You’ve been telling Sorcs to change our build and L2P for years if we couldn’t survive a bow instant gank - or If we can’t survive instant death because we don’t travel with shields up. How does it FEEL?!
I don't say that Cloak is balanced but your anti stamina agenda is laughable. Why don't you play a stam build for once by yourself (for example a medium armor build, not some duel cheese with heavy armor, bleedstack, lingering health pots and lolking which is complete garbage and irrelevant in every scenario which isn't a duel - even tho I think that I can tear this *** apart as soon as I slot pets but whatever).
I remember the time when sorcs were able to kill a med armor build with one frag hit. Do you want to pretend that this was balanced? Sorcs hiding behind shieldstack + Major Protection who only need to hit one frag to win the fight? This would maybe be acceptable if they would have one shield with around 40k magicka...
You can just slot Sloads next patch, it actually does break Cloak and a med armor Nb won't be able to use their defense skill anymore. I did never play a gankbuild nor do I defend or use shieldbreaker, Shattering Blows or oblivion damage in general but my playstyle will still get crushed with the upcoming patch. That's what you wanted I hope. You aren't any better than any the "forumblades" who have an agenda.
And no, I don't think that sorc will be overpowered but I think that it's a good time to give medium armor a bit more survivability (and give light armor for non sorcs a bit defense against snares and roots while we are at it).
If sloads breaks cloak, mark my words it won’t last. Nothing in this game survives angry forumblades.
You’d really need to push damage to one shot a medium armor build, but you know- you cant do that anymore. They nerfed sharpened. They nerfed Spinner. They took 10% damage off frags. You can’t empower anymore. The whole game armor mechanics changed, and they STILL took the stun off after all that.
You realize that a LIGHT ATTACK is going to land for 6-7K this patch right? Putting frags on your bar is almost waste of time in this meta. Why use an easily telegraphed ability on a one third proc chance? You can replace frags with degeneration and get more dependable light attack burst. Weave it with pulse and they might not even see the LA.
You’ve nerfed our one best damage skill into the dirt. Enjoy the unavoidable cages.
If I would be in a position which would allow me to nerf frags... I would ban you from the forums instead
I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.4 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just looked up sload.
Damn that's a pretty mean set.
It's gonna go very well on a Sorc.
It's a very reliable DoT ... Hello skoria...
Essentially 1700 dmg equivalent tooltip... Essentially the smallest of down times...
Oblivion damage....
Very nice...
So...
Skoria + Sload + Caluurion/winterborn (for BG group play, winterborn is very nice)... Prob Cal. (Proc sets gonna be very popular)
Maybe... Sload, skoria, Cyrodiil light... Back bar Healing Ward then right into meditate while your sets maintain pressure...
0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I find it amusing that every PTS cycle, Duke gets up in arms about something.
This patch: sorcs and rune cage
Last patch: DKs
Patch before: Block cost
One of these patches I suppose it will be stam NBs
For clarity: I do think the Rune Cage change is silly. I also think ZoS should have never changed Fossilize. That skill is almost as ridiculous.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.6 -
Murador178✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »I find it amusing that every PTS cycle, Duke gets up in arms about something.
This patch: sorcs and rune cage
Last patch: DKs
Patch before: Block cost
One of these patches I suppose it will be stam NBs
For clarity: I do think the Rune Cage change is silly. I also think ZoS should have never changed Fossilize. That skill is almost as ridiculous.
Duke is fighting in a holy war against rune cage . So Duke is most of the times right 
- atleast this time
I will be his first inquisitor . Edited by Murador178 on April 28, 2018 9:39PM1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »I find it amusing that every PTS cycle, Duke gets up in arms about something.
This patch: sorcs and rune cage
Last patch: DKs
Patch before: Block cost
One of these patches I suppose it will be stam NBs
For clarity: I do think the Rune Cage change is silly. I also think ZoS should have never changed Fossilize. That skill is almost as ridiculous.
Well, I'd like to think I'm good at finding out balance problems :P
...but since you mentioned stamblade, I do think:- Incap should be like before (only stuns if you have less health than opponent).
- Dodge roll spam should be less sustainable.
Those who've paid attention have probably seen my rants about rollerblades lol
They're making Bombard (finally) dodgeable so I'll be a little bit more cool with them now that there's atleast one skill from my build they can't dodge.Edited by DDuke on April 28, 2018 9:45PM1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Just looked up sload.
Damn that's a pretty mean set.
It's gonna go very well on a Sorc.
It's a very reliable DoT ... Hello skoria...
Essentially 1700 dmg equivalent tooltip... Essentially the smallest of down times...
Oblivion damage....
Very nice...
So...
Skoria + Sload + Caluurion/winterborn (for BG group play, winterborn is very nice)... Prob Cal. (Proc sets gonna be very popular)
Maybe... Sload, skoria, Cyrodiil light... Back bar Healing Ward then right into meditate while your sets maintain pressure...
I loathe proc sets, I’m probably going with a standard BIS 5/5/2/2 build with willpower, slimecraw, and maybe lich/shackle, shackle/amber, or lich/spinner. I need to do more testing to see if minor berserk at all times is worth the loss of 2K Magicka and 1K stamina of mismatched monster pieces. I don’t have to tell anyone good why 19K stamina is nice, and empowered light attacks scaling with 50K Max Magicka is going to be mean as hell.
If they don’t change master staves to catch up, those are pretty much out, just like using reach.0 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭A sorc prepares a burst over six seconds. SIX. SECONDS. Shield, shield, Curse, Fury, Reach, Frag. That is a ton of time, pressure and resources lost to a simple, casual roll. That's the difference that hampers sorcs so much. The effort in no way justifies the payoff.
Oh no, you have to actually prepare to burst someone tanky?
That's cute, I wish there was some prepared burst on any other class to get through those stacked shields worth 30k+ health.
Compared to an ambush>LA>Incap>execute sorc burst takes a long time to set up . NB burst is pretty much available as long as you have ultimate up in the sense that it could happen anytime. Is it after this LA or maybe this SA? Whereas sorc burst is "oh its been 3 seconds since curse, let's roll dodge" and now 2/3 of the sorc rotation is gone.
Now this is obviously assuming basic rotations without Rune Cage. We can go into more detailed scenarios but it doesn't change the fact that sorc burst is the most telegraphed amongst all classes and is amongst the longest to setup. So @Lord-Otto does have a valid point. Didn't read the rest of the argument because it kind of deteriorated.
The bolded statement is misleading to anyone who doesn't know sorcs. Yes it is hard to burst sorcs but their counter isn't burst. Its raw sustained damage and cc. Saying you can't do something to a class that is supposed to be resilient to it doesn't prove anything is OP rather just working as intended.
FYI I agree that Rune Cage damage change is the wrong way to go so not disagreeing with your main point, just pointing out misleading statements.
If Rune Cage had maybe half the tooltip damage and its animation was smoothened to compensate I think it be fine. Or if it refreshed ward Strength (not duration, and obviously dealt 0 damage), that could also be pretty cool. Most likely OP but still, pretty cool.
A stam sorc can survive this burst on live, just need to invest a bit into health. I know. Mine runs medium.
Right now on live, only extreme damage builds that neglect defences will die to a traditional msorc curse...frag etc. I've fought night blades that have survived a full meteor combo and than proceeded to burst me down. This is with 3.1k SD buffed + Spinner's and 40.1k Mag. If you build extreme damage, you're going to be squishy. Period. Full Impen on body is still squishy, especially if you run less than 22k health
As per medium armor, I'd love to see it get some natural Impen through passives. Take out the sneak passives (and just combine it with Ledgermen) and have it grant +12xx impenetrable at max level. Although this would probably require the dodge roll reduction to be reduced, probably halved, and maybe change the medium passive to affect all movement and not just sprinting.3 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Duke, you need that six seconds preparation against any player, not only tanks. We have no good sustained pressure to kill without burst. In fact, we're struggling to kill without ult. You are vastly overestimating the abilities of sorcs.
No, you don't.
Maybe you just need to get a bit better at the game.
How many of these kills require six seconds preparation?
https://youtu.be/hfK4dBy73Ro
https://youtu.be/7tTa6uyf6ZQ
If you want to kill with less preparation required, go play an overload gank build:
https://youtu.be/DCHSKRqUodQ
...oh right I forgot, you only play the most popular and most unoriginal meta builds.My attitude is not toxic, it's productive. I don't come into more or less competitive PvP and demand the game balances around my build. No game does that, not even Skyrim or Oblivion in singleplayer PvE. You're not bringing a knife to a gunfight and expect it to get buffed to shoot lasers, because you lost.
That is exactly what you do: you come into PvP and expect everything to be balanced around the unoriginal meta build you're playing, when a healthy game requires a healthy amount of build diversity to choose from - which means balancing around all variety of builds (even making balance changes to promote less popular ones).
And pls, that "knife to a gunfight" argument would work if my less popular build was any less effective than the popular meta builds. I kill more people than the meta rollerblades on my bowblade in less than half the time it takes them.
See, I also hate rolling around trees & towers for 15 minutes gathering Relentless stacks (one could call that a lot of "preparation") to Incap->Relentless noobs with low reaction time while pretending to be some super skilled player.
So rather than just playing those meta builds, I create something different that works and is actually enjoyable to play - nothing prevents you from doing the same on Sorc if you dislike the playstyle that requires lots of "preparation" to get kills.
1. Video. Malcolm using two shields, Reach, and the standard combo. Meta.
2. Video. Fasold using... the same. Rolls a bit more. Meta.
At least educate yourself. Pelican runs more uniqueness than those two. And he's quite beastly. But admits the meta would make him perform even better. Probably same situation for your bow build. You're not Snipe stacking, btw, are you?
But you made a grave mistake, buddy. If you say we should consider non-meta and your bows kill twice as fast... be careful what you wish for... how about...
NERF BOWS!!!
And now let this discussion rest, we're not derailing, we already left the frikkin' continent.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Murador178 wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »I find it amusing that every PTS cycle, Duke gets up in arms about something.
This patch: sorcs and rune cage
Last patch: DKs
Patch before: Block cost
One of these patches I suppose it will be stam NBs
For clarity: I do think the Rune Cage change is silly. I also think ZoS should have never changed Fossilize. That skill is almost as ridiculous.
Duke is fighting in a holy war against rune cage . So Duke is most of the times right - atleast this time
I will be his first inquisitor .
The problem is more along the lines of: Is Runecage too good or is medium armor - or stamina without defensive sets too bad?
The change does not seem over the top against mDK, magplar, mNB and finally allows to kill other sorcs - or am i wrong with this?
How do stambuilds fare against magDK, magNB and magPlar?
Also it seems to be the case that prettymuch everyone testing is running some very dueling metaish setup on their sorcs. Caluurion Necro Shadowrend. Necro shackle shadowrend. Everything revolves around max dmg setups 1v1 setups (not really suprising given you can only realisticly test 1v1). But is pure 1v1 relevant for open world/bg fights?Well, I'd like to think I'm good at finding out balance problems :P
You are - but you´re also an absolute bigot when adressing them as you only deem them "problems" if they affect your personal enjoyment of the game.
Those that benefit you - you´re defending pretty adamantly.Edited by Derra on April 29, 2018 8:11AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 504 -
FlyLionel✭✭✭✭Frags needs cc please.
Been playing since launch and I can say they're in the worst position ever. I haven't played one personally in pvp for a while but going up against one is really underwhelming nowadays. This would be great for 5 5 2 meta on sorc and make perfected inferno 5 3 2 1 setups even better for summerset. Using flame clench spam and a master staff does not feel like good pvp. Already common knowledge adding cc again will free up mSorc bars which will give them another flex spot which imo is key here. A 5 5 2 setup with frags enabled to cc using force pulse spammable will be a healthier meta.
The Flyers1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭A sorc prepares a burst over six seconds. SIX. SECONDS. Shield, shield, Curse, Fury, Reach, Frag. That is a ton of time, pressure and resources lost to a simple, casual roll. That's the difference that hampers sorcs so much. The effort in no way justifies the payoff.
Oh no, you have to actually prepare to burst someone tanky?
That's cute, I wish there was some prepared burst on any other class to get through those stacked shields worth 30k+ health.
Compared to an ambush>LA>Incap>execute sorc burst takes a long time to set up . NB burst is pretty much available as long as you have ultimate up in the sense that it could happen anytime. Is it after this LA or maybe this SA? Whereas sorc burst is "oh its been 3 seconds since curse, let's roll dodge" and now 2/3 of the sorc rotation is gone.
Now this is obviously assuming basic rotations without Rune Cage. We can go into more detailed scenarios but it doesn't change the fact that sorc burst is the most telegraphed amongst all classes and is amongst the longest to setup. So @Lord-Otto does have a valid point. Didn't read the rest of the argument because it kind of deteriorated.
The full burst may be telegraphed, but atleast you have burst. Same can't be said about magplars or mag wardens for example. Also, I'd say burst like POTL or Shalks are just as telegraphed, if not more.
Of course Incap->Relentless burst is the least telegraphed & the most easy to perform - I'd love to see that Incap stun only apply if you're below the target's health pool, that ability felt much more balanced & skill based when it worked like that (was changed a couple years ago).The bolded statement is misleading to anyone who doesn't know sorcs. Yes it is hard to burst sorcs but their counter isn't burst. Its raw sustained damage and cc. Saying you can't do something to a class that is supposed to be resilient to it doesn't prove anything is OP rather just working as intended.
I.e. build for a long sustain fight - build tanky & high regen.
I'm fine with sorcs having such upsides when it comes to defenses though, as long as I always have the option of escaping them in open world (like you'd escape any other tanky unburstable build) - unfortunately that's where the issues with Rune Cage come in (it also breaks cloak btw if you cloak after someone casts it).FYI I agree that Rune Cage damage change is the wrong way to go so not disagreeing with your main point, just pointing out misleading statements.
If Rune Cage had maybe half the tooltip damage and its animation was smoothened to compensate I think it be fine. Or if it refreshed ward Strength (not duration, and obviously dealt 0 damage), that could also be pretty cool. Most likely OP but still, pretty cool.
...or if it actually put some kind of an AoE field around you & only dealt the damage when you crossed that field. "Rune Cage", literally.
That'd help sorcs control fights better, but would give the counter of staying still until it's safe to cross for non-tank builds.A stam sorc can survive this burst on live, just need to invest a bit into health. I know. Mine runs medium.
"A bit", I've been able to burst anyone below 30k health in medium armor 7 impen from 100>0 on PTS. Haven't tried bursting a medium armor tank build (Impregnable/Brass) though.Right now on live, only extreme damage builds that neglect defences will die to a traditional msorc curse...frag etc. I've fought night blades that have survived a full meteor combo and than proceeded to burst me down. This is with 3.1k SD buffed + Spinner's and 40.1k Mag. If you build extreme damage, you're going to be squishy. Period. Full Impen on body is still squishy, especially if you run less than 22k health
...except if you play a magicka build, in which case you'll still be tanky with dmg shields, especially if you build for high dmg since your shields will only get bigger. Sure, your health pool will be squishy even with 7 impen & balanced defensive CPs, but that matters little behind shields.
A medium armor build will always have that squishy health pool, as instead of shields they're utilizing dodge roll to survive.
That is why problems arise when you attach a lot of damage to undodgeable (and blockable) abilities), it'd be the same as some ability disabling your dmg shields until you CC break & dealing 1/3rd of your health pool in dmg.As per medium armor, I'd love to see it get some natural Impen through passives. Take out the sneak passives (and just combine it with Ledgermen) and have it grant +12xx impenetrable at max level. Although this would probably require the dodge roll reduction to be reduced, probably halved, and maybe change the medium passive to affect all movement and not just sprinting.
I don't know if medium armor needs any buffs, the changes to Power Lash & Warden Birds really fixed a lot of survivability issues it used to have. Now we're of course starting to see them again with Rune Cage...1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Duke, you need that six seconds preparation against any player, not only tanks. We have no good sustained pressure to kill without burst. In fact, we're struggling to kill without ult. You are vastly overestimating the abilities of sorcs.
No, you don't.
Maybe you just need to get a bit better at the game.
How many of these kills require six seconds preparation?
https://youtu.be/hfK4dBy73Ro
https://youtu.be/7tTa6uyf6ZQ
If you want to kill with less preparation required, go play an overload gank build:
https://youtu.be/DCHSKRqUodQ
...oh right I forgot, you only play the most popular and most unoriginal meta builds.My attitude is not toxic, it's productive. I don't come into more or less competitive PvP and demand the game balances around my build. No game does that, not even Skyrim or Oblivion in singleplayer PvE. You're not bringing a knife to a gunfight and expect it to get buffed to shoot lasers, because you lost.
That is exactly what you do: you come into PvP and expect everything to be balanced around the unoriginal meta build you're playing, when a healthy game requires a healthy amount of build diversity to choose from - which means balancing around all variety of builds (even making balance changes to promote less popular ones).
And pls, that "knife to a gunfight" argument would work if my less popular build was any less effective than the popular meta builds. I kill more people than the meta rollerblades on my bowblade in less than half the time it takes them.
See, I also hate rolling around trees & towers for 15 minutes gathering Relentless stacks (one could call that a lot of "preparation") to Incap->Relentless noobs with low reaction time while pretending to be some super skilled player.
So rather than just playing those meta builds, I create something different that works and is actually enjoyable to play - nothing prevents you from doing the same on Sorc if you dislike the playstyle that requires lots of "preparation" to get kills.
1. Video. Malcolm using two shields, Reach, and the standard combo. Meta.
2. Video. Fasold using... the same. Rolls a bit more. Meta.
At least educate yourself. Pelican runs more uniqueness than those two. And he's quite beastly. But admits the meta would make him perform even better. Probably same situation for your bow build. You're not Snipe stacking, btw, are you?
But you made a grave mistake, buddy. If you say we should consider non-meta and your bows kill twice as fast... be careful what you wish for... how about...
NERF BOWS!!!
And now let this discussion rest, we're not derailing, we already left the frikkin' continent.
Never said those players weren't running meta setups, just pointing out they kill players without the full 6s preparation you mentioned. Of course they still do have to use skills to kill people.
Also you have to look at the bow build like you'd look at a bombblade. Can it kill more people much faster than other magicka NB builds?
Sure. But it has its limitations, as does my bow build (and no, no "snipe stacking" whatever that means).
Sure, I may be focusing on issues that affect me personally the most, I think that's only human.
I'm not "defending" any balance issues though, even if they do benefit me.
I know you're going to bring up "what about all that one shotting from stealth", well, I've stated multiple times I'd love to see stealth oriented gameplay changed to something different. I've even proposed changes in the past.
But what we've got at the moment is what we've got when it comes to stealth oriented playstyles.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭But what we've got at the moment is what we've got when it comes to stealth oriented playstyles.
But can you really blame sorc players for the same approach in getting a vaible dmg combo again that´s not died to masterweapons though
?
It´s the same issue you have with NB - outside of 1 build it´s clearly underperforming on live. Which is why non meta builds will adamantly defend buffs for them.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭But what we've got at the moment is what we've got when it comes to stealth oriented playstyles.
But can you really blame sorc players for the same approach in getting a vaible dmg combo again that´s not died to masterweapons though ?
It´s the same issue you have with NB - outside of 1 build it´s clearly underperforming on live. Which is why non meta builds will adamantly defend buffs for them.
Since when has a classic sorc (since those are who benefit from Rune Cage dealing damage) been a non-meta build? After rollerblades, sorcs are likely the most popular class in Cyrodiil & they all play practically the same build (or the same playstyle at the very least).
Which specific non-meta build is the Rune Cage change tailored towards?
Look, if ZOS was buffing let's say block/healing oriented sorc builds (which they are, with other changes in this patch) with the Rune Cage change you'd have a point - but they aren't. This change is making the current meta sorc builds stronger - too strong against any non-tank build.
Also, it's a leap to compare an entire playstyle (i.e. stealth oriented builds) to one single CC on your bar. Just saying.Edited by DDuke on April 29, 2018 11:08AM1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭But what we've got at the moment is what we've got when it comes to stealth oriented playstyles.
But can you really blame sorc players for the same approach in getting a vaible dmg combo again that´s not died to masterweapons though ?
It´s the same issue you have with NB - outside of 1 build it´s clearly underperforming on live. Which is why non meta builds will adamantly defend buffs for them.
Since when has a classic sorc (since those are who benefit from Rune Cage dealing damage) been a non-meta build? After rollerblades, sorcs are likely the most popular class in Cyrodiil & they all play practically the same build (or the same playstyle at the very least).
Which specific non-meta build is the Rune Cage change tailored towards?
Look, if ZOS was buffing let's say block/healing oriented sorc builds (which they are, with other changes in this patch) with the Rune Cage change you'd have a point - but they aren't. This change is making the current meta sorc builds stronger - too strong against any non-tank build.
Also, it's a leap to compare an entire playstyle (i.e. stealth oriented builds) to one single CC on your bar. Just saying.
On sorc nonmeta starts somewhere completely different than for nb (because you don´t have options to begin with).
No masterstaff is currently nonmeta for sorc on live (and not competetive).
DW sorc.
Non annulment builds.
The main target being sorcs without masterstaff - those aren´t meta and can´t compete with masterstaff.
It´s not really a leap to compare that imo. You´re coming from the class with literally the highest build diversity in the game for magica and stamina. Not every class has the luxury of that many options.Edited by Derra on April 29, 2018 11:20AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 506 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭But what we've got at the moment is what we've got when it comes to stealth oriented playstyles.
But can you really blame sorc players for the same approach in getting a vaible dmg combo again that´s not died to masterweapons though ?
It´s the same issue you have with NB - outside of 1 build it´s clearly underperforming on live. Which is why non meta builds will adamantly defend buffs for them.
Since when has a classic sorc (since those are who benefit from Rune Cage dealing damage) been a non-meta build? After rollerblades, sorcs are likely the most popular class in Cyrodiil & they all play practically the same build (or the same playstyle at the very least).
Which specific non-meta build is the Rune Cage change tailored towards?
Look, if ZOS was buffing let's say block/healing oriented sorc builds (which they are, with other changes in this patch) with the Rune Cage change you'd have a point - but they aren't. This change is making the current meta sorc builds stronger - too strong against any non-tank build.
Also, it's a leap to compare an entire playstyle (i.e. stealth oriented builds) to one single CC on your bar. Just saying.
On sorc nonmeta starts somewhere completely different than for nb (because you don´t have options to begin with).
No masterstaff is currently nonmeta for sorc on live (and not competetive).
DW sorc.
Non annulment builds.
The main target being sorcs without masterstaff - those aren´t meta and can´t compete with masterstaff.
Sure they can:
https://youtu.be/DCHSKRqUodQ
If you mean that Master Destro is BiS for the current meta sorc playstyles then sure, you're right. Just like sets such as Bone Pirate/Shacklebreaker are BiS for rollerblades, or how Asylum Bow is BiS for a bow build.
You're talking itemization, not ability balance.It´s not really a leap to compare that imo. You´re coming from the class with literally the highest build diversity in the game for magica and stamina. Not every class has the luxury of that many options.
...and I'd love to see more build diversity, not less (which is what Rune Cage change is going to cause). You don't buff build diversity by buffing skills that are used (or will be used) by meta builds.Edited by DDuke on April 29, 2018 11:22AM1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS logic in a nutshell.
People : Shieldstacking is OP. Nerf it and give us other defensive options.
ZOS : We will nerf frags cause its OP. You should choose between dmg (frags) or cc (blast, rune cage).
People : Sorc needs cc attached on dmg. We cant sacrifice GCD as long as you push that shieldstacking playstyle on us.
ZOS : You are right. But we are not going to give the cc back to frags. That would mean that we admit doing a mistake. Frag is also too OP applying a stun which can be countered by every available defense in the game. We will instead put dmg on ur CC that ignores all defenses. Thats balanced and follows our Xv1 philosophy.
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