PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance

twistedmonk · April 2018

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Waffennacht · April 2018

Sorcs will have access to essentially a spammable with imbue.

I am thinking Sorcs will be the top class for PvP in Summerset

Execute, Burst, healing and sustainable pressure will all be accessible.

With Magden getting nerfed Sorcs will also have the strongest class with unparalleled shield stacking.

I think the second coming of Sorc is upon us.

Get ready for a ton of Nerf threads

Minalan · April 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sorcs will have access to essentially a spammable with imbue.

I am thinking Sorcs will be the top class for PvP in Summerset

Execute, Burst, healing and sustainable pressure will all be accessible.

With Magden getting nerfed Sorcs will also have the strongest class with unparalleled shield stacking.

I think the second coming of Sorc is upon us.

Get ready for a ton of Nerf threads

Everyone got a spammable. Everyone got the psijic skill line. Everyone got the two item set bonus on two handed weapons. Everyone gets jewelry crafting.

As pointed out, the biggest buff is damage on cage. You can catch a nightblade mid lol-roll and nuke them with a follow up. You can drop block on a tank and deal the full cage damage on them.

TBH assuming they ‘fix’ overload, cage is the only overpowered skill we have. But with all of the other stamina cheese out there, it’s pretty tame.

Murador178 · April 2018

[

Minalan wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sorcs will have access to essentially a spammable with imbue.

I am thinking Sorcs will be the top class for PvP in Summerset

Execute, Burst, healing and sustainable pressure will all be accessible.

With Magden getting nerfed Sorcs will also have the strongest class with unparalleled shield stacking.

I think the second coming of Sorc is upon us.

Get ready for a ton of Nerf threads

Everyone got a spammable. Everyone got the psijic skill line. Everyone got the two item set bonus on two handed weapons. Everyone gets jewelry crafting.

As pointed out, the biggest buff is damage on cage. You can catch a nightblade mid lol-roll and nuke them with a follow up. You can drop block on a tank and deal the full cage damage on them.

TBH assuming they ‘fix’ overload, cage is the only overpowered skill we have. But with all of the other stamina cheese out there, it’s pretty tame.

Dont forget curse. Did u even test the pts? I meteor combod some heavy armor ~30k hp dudes from full hp WITHOUT counterplay.

Minalan · April 2018

Murador178 wrote: »

[

Minalan wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sorcs will have access to essentially a spammable with imbue.

I am thinking Sorcs will be the top class for PvP in Summerset

Execute, Burst, healing and sustainable pressure will all be accessible.

With Magden getting nerfed Sorcs will also have the strongest class with unparalleled shield stacking.

I think the second coming of Sorc is upon us.

Get ready for a ton of Nerf threads

Everyone got a spammable. Everyone got the psijic skill line. Everyone got the two item set bonus on two handed weapons. Everyone gets jewelry crafting.

As pointed out, the biggest buff is damage on cage. You can catch a nightblade mid lol-roll and nuke them with a follow up. You can drop block on a tank and deal the full cage damage on them.

TBH assuming they ‘fix’ overload, cage is the only overpowered skill we have. But with all of the other stamina cheese out there, it’s pretty tame.

Dont forget curse. Did u even test the pts? I meteor combod some heavy armor ~30k hp dudes from full hp WITHOUT counterplay.

You can do that same exact combo on live today.

The difference is now you have damage on rune cage to push that burst up slightly higher.

Waffennacht · April 2018

@Minalan yes everyone gets one, but most already had. Sorc did not, so it's a much more meaningful addition to the sorc line-up.

I'm not saying Sorcs will be OP, but whenever any Sorcs anywhere do well it gets 5000 Nerf threads lol.

The only thing missing from a sorc line-up now, is an effective means of snare and root removal (which is debatable how vital)

Also, yeah everyone with Summerset gets jewelry crafting... Not sure how it's relevant to what I said, but I'll agree all the same

Minalan · April 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Minalan yes everyone gets one, but most already had. Sorc did not, so it's a much more meaningful addition to the sorc line-up.

I'm not saying Sorcs will be OP, but whenever any Sorcs anywhere do well it gets 5000 Nerf threads lol.

The only thing missing from a sorc line-up now, is an effective means of snare and root removal (which is debatable how vital)

Also, yeah everyone with Summerset gets jewelry crafting... Not sure how it's relevant to what I said, but I'll agree all the same

It...just means everyone gets to wear stuff like amberplasm/shackle without the horrific jewelry farm on vet mode RoM. It opens up a ton of options and I can’t wait until you start putting up the latest oddball builds.

I agree we’ll see 5000 nerf Sorc threads, and 99% of them will be from gankblades. You know - the class with every debuff in the game and one-shot kill builds.

They’ve already started their crap in here and we haven’t seen the end of it.

Morgul667 · April 2018

Magsorc gets a lot of hate on the forum

Stamsorc could use some love in game ^^

Looking forward to test new things

Ankael07 · April 2018

Restraining Prison shouldnt change cause it already fills the role of group crowd control in its current state. Vitality should come with Shattering Prison instead, the morph thats never used in neither PVP or PVE.

Make Blood Magic passive also trigger every time you damage an enemy with Dark Magic skills (since the passive triggers every half a second on PTS). This way Shattering Prison would heal the caster on initial cast + every 0.5 second an enemy dodge rolls out of it (that triggers the damage). Giving people an option of decent self-heal or group crowd control

Waffennacht · April 2018

@Minalan more than likely caluurion, skoria, winterborn

Minalan · April 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Minalan more than likely caluurion, skoria, winterborn

Oh come on man. Don’t go proc on me bro...

It was wrong when it was viper and veli. It doesn’t smell any better now!

Waffennacht · April 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Minalan more than likely caluurion, skoria, winterborn

Oh come on man. Don’t go proc on me bro...

It was wrong when it was viper and veli. It doesn’t smell any better now!

Lmao. It wasn't easy getting all the gear!

And hey, how many winterborn users u seeing around on a sorc?

Aside from that I'm waiting to see final PTS stuff before investing too much

Minalan · April 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Minalan more than likely caluurion, skoria, winterborn

Oh come on man. Don’t go proc on me bro...

It was wrong when it was viper and veli. It doesn’t smell any better now!

Lmao. It wasn't easy getting all the gear!

And hey, how many winterborn users u seeing around on a sorc?

Aside from that I'm waiting to see final PTS stuff before investing too much

None! It’s mostly Wardens or ice reach spammers.

No, a real waffennacht build is using some obscure crafted or IC set everyone forgot about years ago that works in some ridiculous overpowered way with an obscure Resto staff passive, and then activates some effect boosted by a monster set you’re wearing and doubles up again to heal you to full with full impen procs from transmutation.

If the build doesn’t leave me thinking WTF?! It’s not one of yours!

Waffennacht · April 2018

@Minalan I do wanna try Cyrodiil's Light with Introspection. 40% dmg reduction + the stat Regen on off bar

What more to do with that I haven't thought of yet

Murador178 · April 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

[

Minalan wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sorcs will have access to essentially a spammable with imbue.

I am thinking Sorcs will be the top class for PvP in Summerset

Execute, Burst, healing and sustainable pressure will all be accessible.

With Magden getting nerfed Sorcs will also have the strongest class with unparalleled shield stacking.

I think the second coming of Sorc is upon us.

Get ready for a ton of Nerf threads

Everyone got a spammable. Everyone got the psijic skill line. Everyone got the two item set bonus on two handed weapons. Everyone gets jewelry crafting.

As pointed out, the biggest buff is damage on cage. You can catch a nightblade mid lol-roll and nuke them with a follow up. You can drop block on a tank and deal the full cage damage on them.

TBH assuming they ‘fix’ overload, cage is the only overpowered skill we have. But with all of the other stamina cheese out there, it’s pretty tame.

Dont forget curse. Did u even test the pts? I meteor combod some heavy armor ~30k hp dudes from full hp WITHOUT counterplay.

You can do that same exact combo on live today.

The difference is now you have damage on rune cage to push that burst up slightly higher.

yeah but with light attacks on my sorc critting up to 6k and over 8k tooltip on runecage it gets viable. I tested that combo also on life. U can meteor combo medium armor builds - but its unviable vs tanky opponents. That will change this patch so.

Derra · April 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sorcs will have access to essentially a spammable with imbue.

I am thinking Sorcs will be the top class for PvP in Summerset

Execute, Burst, healing and sustainable pressure will all be accessible.

With Magden getting nerfed Sorcs will also have the strongest class with unparalleled shield stacking.

I think the second coming of Sorc is upon us.

Get ready for a ton of Nerf threads

Which is exactly why most people that tested runecage on pts say it should not make it live.
It´s too good/broken.

Luckily we have 3 more pts rebalancing patches (week 2 + week 4 + live patch) to make sure it does not happen.

Edit: Just to repeat myself: I´m not saying revert the change - because that´s not going to achieve much either. Let runecage do something else that´s useful than unavoidable direct dmg.

Vaoh · April 2018

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sorcs will have access to essentially a spammable with imbue.

I am thinking Sorcs will be the top class for PvP in Summerset

Execute, Burst, healing and sustainable pressure will all be accessible.

With Magden getting nerfed Sorcs will also have the strongest class with unparalleled shield stacking.

I think the second coming of Sorc is upon us.

Get ready for a ton of Nerf threads

Which is exactly why most people that tested runecage on pts say it should not make it live.
It´s too good/broken.

Luckily we have 3 more pts rebalancing patches (week 2 + week 4 + live patch) to make sure it does not happen.

Edit: Just to repeat myself: I´m not saying revert the change - because that´s not going to achieve much either. Let runecage do something else that´s useful than unavoidable direct dmg.

Why not just revert Crystal Frags and Rune Prison to their original versions so we can play Sorc the fun way

Murador178 · April 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sorcs will have access to essentially a spammable with imbue.

I am thinking Sorcs will be the top class for PvP in Summerset

Execute, Burst, healing and sustainable pressure will all be accessible.

With Magden getting nerfed Sorcs will also have the strongest class with unparalleled shield stacking.

I think the second coming of Sorc is upon us.

Get ready for a ton of Nerf threads

Which is exactly why most people that tested runecage on pts say it should not make it live.
It´s too good/broken.

Luckily we have 3 more pts rebalancing patches (week 2 + week 4 + live patch) to make sure it does not happen.

Edit: Just to repeat myself: I´m not saying revert the change - because that´s not going to achieve much either. Let runecage do something else that´s useful than unavoidable direct dmg.

Why not just revert Crystal Frags and Rune Prison to their original versions so we can play Sorc the fun way

Yeah I think this would be best. Balancing runecage in a way its worthwhile running vs tanky builds and at the same time no screwing squishier builds completely over seems like an impossible thing to do. (maybe giving penetration or minor maim or a slow to the target).

Derra · April 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sorcs will have access to essentially a spammable with imbue.

I am thinking Sorcs will be the top class for PvP in Summerset

Execute, Burst, healing and sustainable pressure will all be accessible.

With Magden getting nerfed Sorcs will also have the strongest class with unparalleled shield stacking.

I think the second coming of Sorc is upon us.

Get ready for a ton of Nerf threads

Which is exactly why most people that tested runecage on pts say it should not make it live.
It´s too good/broken.

Luckily we have 3 more pts rebalancing patches (week 2 + week 4 + live patch) to make sure it does not happen.

Edit: Just to repeat myself: I´m not saying revert the change - because that´s not going to achieve much either. Let runecage do something else that´s useful than unavoidable direct dmg.

Why not just revert Crystal Frags and Rune Prison to their original versions so we can play Sorc the fun way

Because that leaves runecage in a position where it´s not very desireable to slot and strictly inferior to abilities like fear/petrify.

Murador178 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sorcs will have access to essentially a spammable with imbue.

I am thinking Sorcs will be the top class for PvP in Summerset

Execute, Burst, healing and sustainable pressure will all be accessible.

With Magden getting nerfed Sorcs will also have the strongest class with unparalleled shield stacking.

I think the second coming of Sorc is upon us.

Get ready for a ton of Nerf threads

Which is exactly why most people that tested runecage on pts say it should not make it live.
It´s too good/broken.

Luckily we have 3 more pts rebalancing patches (week 2 + week 4 + live patch) to make sure it does not happen.

Edit: Just to repeat myself: I´m not saying revert the change - because that´s not going to achieve much either. Let runecage do something else that´s useful than unavoidable direct dmg.

Why not just revert Crystal Frags and Rune Prison to their original versions so we can play Sorc the fun way

Yeah I think this would be best. Balancing runecage in a way its worthwhile running vs tanky builds and at the same time no screwing squishier builds completely over seems like an impossible thing to do. (maybe giving penetration or minor maim or a slow to the target).

The problem is it´s not worth running in the current live version 3.X vs tankier builds.

Ragnaroek93 · April 2018

Murador178 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sorcs will have access to essentially a spammable with imbue.

I am thinking Sorcs will be the top class for PvP in Summerset

Execute, Burst, healing and sustainable pressure will all be accessible.

With Magden getting nerfed Sorcs will also have the strongest class with unparalleled shield stacking.

I think the second coming of Sorc is upon us.

Get ready for a ton of Nerf threads

Which is exactly why most people that tested runecage on pts say it should not make it live.
It´s too good/broken.

Luckily we have 3 more pts rebalancing patches (week 2 + week 4 + live patch) to make sure it does not happen.

Edit: Just to repeat myself: I´m not saying revert the change - because that´s not going to achieve much either. Let runecage do something else that´s useful than unavoidable direct dmg.

Why not just revert Crystal Frags and Rune Prison to their original versions so we can play Sorc the fun way

Yeah I think this would be best. Balancing runecage in a way its worthwhile running vs tanky builds and at the same time no screwing squishier builds completely over seems like an impossible thing to do. (maybe giving penetration or minor maim or a slow to the target).

Just give squishy builds (= light and medium armor) a bit more defense to be able to survive. Nerfing Runecage won't make them viable at all, you'll still get stomped by... almost everything...

Lord-Otto · April 2018

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sorcs will have access to essentially a spammable with imbue.

I am thinking Sorcs will be the top class for PvP in Summerset

Execute, Burst, healing and sustainable pressure will all be accessible.

With Magden getting nerfed Sorcs will also have the strongest class with unparalleled shield stacking.

I think the second coming of Sorc is upon us.

Get ready for a ton of Nerf threads

Which is exactly why most people that tested runecage on pts say it should not make it live.
It´s too good/broken.

Luckily we have 3 more pts rebalancing patches (week 2 + week 4 + live patch) to make sure it does not happen.

Edit: Just to repeat myself: I´m not saying revert the change - because that´s not going to achieve much either. Let runecage do something else that´s useful than unavoidable direct dmg.

It is sooooo simple:
Put the Cage stun damage on our proc burst skill, Frags. They're avoidable. Should match Merciless. It'll help PvE. It'll help light attack rotations, which are fun.
It would benefit everyone, and there is only one knucklehead standing in the way of Utopia right now. So frustrating!
>=C

Jsmalls · April 2018

This entire patch is going to be a mess, calling it right here right now. The burst damage creep from every single class is going up between two set piece 2 handed weapons, to imbue weapons, to jewelery crafting, to light attack damage increase, and the infused jewellery trait.

Imbue weapons may turn out to be an insanely broken skill in my opinion. The skill itself sounded like a good idea but... It tooltips for about what force pulse does. That's perfectly fine. It has specific conditions, has a short duration, and moderate damage on paper.

But let's throw this thing into practice and all of a sudden it's a nightmare. I'll have it tooltipping for 11k or so, a magicka nightblade with their extra 8% magicka and minor berserk will push that to I'm guessing 13k.

We'll say a crit will most likely hit for 5k on a decently specced player. Because of its delayed damage though... That 5k extra will hit at the same time as that 4-5k light weave, and 10k bow. That's almost 20k f***ing damage in one second with like 2 seconds of setup. Not cool. Stamblades will be able to do this with procs, imbue, enchants, and surprise attacks. mDks with imbue and flame lash. mSorcs with imbue and frags + curse and rune prison for like 25k damage (I don't have pts but I'm assuming you can get an imbue, rune prison, then weave a frag in enough time to have the imbue to hit with the weaved frag?) Characters that use channel abilities will be even more in a *** pile because imbue won't synergize well. And then P2W will plague these forums. I have no problem buying every chapter, I really like this game and I support it with ESO+, but to lock a skill line behind a pay wall may be the closest they have come to P2W and generally Zos has been AMAZING about keeping purchaseables as cosmetic and content kudos to them, really.

As a magicka Sorc my damage shields will be in the worst place they have ever been. Everyone will be doing so much freaking damage that dodging and blocking will be the only reasonable means of damage mitigation, I'll be reslotting spell wall without a doubt.

Sommerset is going to push our kill times to that of CoD. It's going to be intense or utter ***. Guess we'll see... (Probably the second)

DDuke · April 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Minalan yes everyone gets one, but most already had. Sorc did not, so it's a much more meaningful addition to the sorc line-up.

I'm not saying Sorcs will be OP, but whenever any Sorcs anywhere do well it gets 5000 Nerf threads lol.

The only thing missing from a sorc line-up now, is an effective means of snare and root removal (which is debatable how vital)

Also, yeah everyone with Summerset gets jewelry crafting... Not sure how it's relevant to what I said, but I'll agree all the same

It...just means everyone gets to wear stuff like amberplasm/shackle without the horrific jewelry farm on vet mode RoM. It opens up a ton of options and I can’t wait until you start putting up the latest oddball builds.

I agree we’ll see 5000 nerf Sorc threads, and 99% of them will be from gankblades. You know - the class with every debuff in the game and one-shot kill builds.

They’ve already started their crap in here and we haven’t seen the end of it.

Every class in the game has one-shot kill builds, the difference is that every one shot kill apart from Rune Cage combos can be dodged/blocked/avoided.

And it's not that "gankblades" will be the ones to suffer from the existence of undodgeable/unblockable damage, but most non-tank builds out there.

Medium armor stamina sorcerers, rollerblades, stamplars - all become unplayable in 1vX when their survival is dependent on no sorcerers with Rune Cage being nearby. Even many of the less tanky (i.e. "only" 25k'ish health) heavy armor builds are one-shottable with Meteor+Rune Cage on PTS.

Note that I'm not including DK & Warden, because I like to think that even non-tank builds can survive with Wings/Shimmering Shield.

By making most of the regular medium armor sustain builds unviable for competitive PvP with these types of changes, ZOS is actually going to push people into those one shot builds you hate so much.

See, if you can't kill people before a sorc shows up and stops your permadodgerolling in its tracks, you're better off playing a build that kills people before that can happen (i.e. a "one shot build").

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sorcs will have access to essentially a spammable with imbue.

I am thinking Sorcs will be the top class for PvP in Summerset

Execute, Burst, healing and sustainable pressure will all be accessible.

With Magden getting nerfed Sorcs will also have the strongest class with unparalleled shield stacking.

I think the second coming of Sorc is upon us.

Get ready for a ton of Nerf threads

Which is exactly why most people that tested runecage on pts say it should not make it live.
It´s too good/broken.

Luckily we have 3 more pts rebalancing patches (week 2 + week 4 + live patch) to make sure it does not happen.

Edit: Just to repeat myself: I´m not saying revert the change - because that´s not going to achieve much either. Let runecage do something else that´s useful than unavoidable direct dmg.

Why not just revert Crystal Frags and Rune Prison to their original versions so we can play Sorc the fun way

Yeah I think this would be best. Balancing runecage in a way its worthwhile running vs tanky builds and at the same time no screwing squishier builds completely over seems like an impossible thing to do. (maybe giving penetration or minor maim or a slow to the target).

Just give squishy builds (= light and medium armor) a bit more defense to be able to survive. Nerfing Runecage won't make them viable at all, you'll still get stomped by... almost everything...

That survivability of those builds is fine on Live imo, even too good in some cases (i.e. infinite dodge rolling, shield stacking). The other changes they're making in this patch are great & actually address those issues (Sload set vs shield stackers, now undodgeable Bombard vs dodge roll etc), but attaching a high dmg proc set's (i.e. Selene/Caluurion) worth of undodgeable/blockable damage to Rune Cage takes it too far.

One thing I don't get is that the same people who defend Rune Cage now dealing 9-10k tooltip worth of damage (that can crit) are also protesting the existence of proc sets (like Caluurion) that deal same amount of (usually) dodgeable/blockable damage.

So just to check, do I get this right:

Proc set damage=bad
Attaching proc set's damage to an undodgeable/blockable skill so wearing proc set isn't even necessary=good ?

Trying to understand the logic here.

Lord-Otto · April 2018

It's simple, really, Duke.

All of sorc damage is telegraphed and avoidable. As an NB player, I bet you know EXACTLY what I mean. Blocking and dodging, the best mitigation tools, are not abundant for sorcs, so it makes sense we counter them harder.

Unavoidable stuff is always a bit lame to play against, and I believe a Frag buff would have been better. But when you look around Nightbladodiil and see them roll every Frag, pop in Cloak for a second to heal to full, and burstmaimsnaredamagedebuff you every ten seconds... What right have you to complain? None. Nothing personal.

DDuke · April 2018

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's simple, really, Duke.

All of sorc damage is telegraphed and avoidable. As an NB player, I bet you know EXACTLY what I mean. Blocking and dodging, the best mitigation tools, are not abundant for sorcs, so it makes sense we counter them harder.

Unavoidable stuff is always a bit lame to play against, and I believe a Frag buff would have been better. But when you look around Nightbladodiil and see them roll every Frag, pop in Cloak for a second to heal to full, and burstmaimsnaredamagedebuff you every ten seconds... What right have you to complain? None. Nothing personal.

That's excuses and you know it.

Sorcerers are far from being the class with most issues against rollerblades - magicka NB for instance has zero undodgeable attacks (no Curse to deal undodgeable 16-17k tooltip damage) & my own bowblade actually has more issues against them than arguably any build in game currently (good luck landing a snipe vs rollerblade, and even Bombard is currently dodgeable). So trust me, I have very little sympathy for rollerblades.

That said, changes like this affect much more than rollerblades, it affects most non-tank builds in game as I wrote above.

Even builds like mine that never could spam dodge roll (or cloak) forever, medium armor stam sorcs/templars that never were meta in the first place and so on.

If ZOS wanted to address the problem of rollerblades being everywhere, then they should make changes that affect those builds directly.

Not take a sledgehammer to game balance & make this game "Elder Tanks Online", because I've no interest in playing such game.

Besides, regarding blocking/dodging... there's nothing in game that would prevent sorcs from utilizing those mechanics as well as any other class.

In fact, they even added passive that reduces your costs by 15% after blocking an attack and added a functionality to Aegis/Armaments that increases block mitigation by 20% (though the duration could be buffed imo).

Murador178 · April 2018

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's simple, really, Duke.

All of sorc damage is telegraphed and avoidable. As an NB player, I bet you know EXACTLY what I mean. Blocking and dodging, the best mitigation tools, are not abundant for sorcs, so it makes sense we counter them harder.

Unavoidable stuff is always a bit lame to play against, and I believe a Frag buff would have been better. But when you look around Nightbladodiil and see them roll every Frag, pop in Cloak for a second to heal to full, and burstmaimsnaredamagedebuff you every ten seconds... What right have you to complain? None. Nothing personal.

Its rly simple: every nb will run snipe/obilivion damage builds after this patch(its like mark suddenely got rly popular). Thers is no way to survive this burst on a normal medium armor build (talking of the without ult combo). I mostly played sorc on the pts. Only things that can beat u are sorcs/pet sorc and tanky mDKs with snb. So i will either asylum snipe next patch or go an obilivion dmg build or just play my sorc.(lets see how high the percentage of oblivion damage builds will be in cyro)

For every non sorc player: Get ur sloads ready

- or even u sorcs

Lord-Otto · April 2018

No, Duke. NBs don't NEED more undodgable stuff. You can already drain stam with Cripple. Then Fear bugCCs, and you have two of the most powerful, easily-available moves to finish with Incap and Merciless (or morphs).

A sorc prepares a burst over six seconds. SIX. SECONDS. Shield, shield, Curse, Fury, Reach, Frag. That is a ton of time, pressure and resources lost to a simple, casual roll. That's the difference that hampers sorcs so much. The effort in no way justifies the payoff.

Regarding your bowbow build, ah, no offense, but I have little regard for non-meta builds in balancing discussion. That's not to say yours was bad, or so, but I won't waste time on discussing bow magsorcs or DW petsorcs or double resto magsorcs when 99% are playing destro/resto. It's just not relevant to the meta.

Derra · April 2018

DDuke wrote: »

magicka NB for instance has zero undodgeable attacks

difference is: on magblade you slot mark and ripperino them.

DDuke · April 2018

Lord-Otto wrote: »

No, Duke. NBs don't NEED more undodgable stuff. You can already drain stam with Cripple. Then Fear bugCCs, and you have two of the most powerful, easily-available moves to finish with Incap and Merciless (or morphs).

That... is not what anyone said? I simply stated magicka NBs on Live have more issues vs dodge rollers than Sorcs, bow builds have more issues vs dodge rollers on Live, high dmg melee stamblade builds have more issues vs dodge rollers, magicka Wardens have more issues vs dodge rollers, stamina Wardens have more issues vs dodge rollers and I could go on.

There's arguably only two classes on Live that deal better with dodge roll cheese than Sorcs: templar (both stam & magicka thanks to sweeps/jabs+potl/purifying) & mDK with Fossilize/Leap & DoTs.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

A sorc prepares a burst over six seconds. SIX. SECONDS. Shield, shield, Curse, Fury, Reach, Frag. That is a ton of time, pressure and resources lost to a simple, casual roll. That's the difference that hampers sorcs so much. The effort in no way justifies the payoff.

Oh no, you have to actually prepare to burst someone tanky?

That's cute, I wish there was some prepared burst on any other class to get through those stacked shields worth 30k+ health.

There's nothing wrong with how Sorc plays on Live, skilled players perform well with the class in both duels & 1vX, especially against squishy dodge rollers.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Regarding your bowbow build, ah, no offense, but I have little regard for non-meta builds in balancing discussion. That's not to say yours was bad, or so, but I won't waste time on discussing bow magsorcs or DW petsorcs or double resto magsorcs when 99% are playing destro/resto. It's just not relevant to the meta.

That's an incredibly toxic attitude to have.

You want everyone in the game to play same types of boring tank builds & all game balance to be based around those builds.

God forbid anyone creates something new & fresh to make the game interesting, let's all fight what are essentially clones of each other. Same builds, same playstyles everywhere - same boredom.

If the build diversity is bad currently, it only stands to get worse after Rune Cage forces most medium armor builds to slot Impregnable+Brass & 30k health to survive, or just go play some heavy armor garbage.

DDuke · April 2018

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

magicka NB for instance has zero undodgeable attacks

difference is: on magblade you slot mark and ripperino them.

...and on a magicka sorc I use det pot for the same effect, alternatively streak over them or basically prevent them from doing anything by dropping mines.

There's no way to currently survive magicka sorcerer on PTS as a medium armor stamblade. It's even worse than magicka DKs were when Power Lash was undodgeable, and that's saying a lot.

Hell, there's no way to survive mag sorc even with Legion/Truth heavy armor, you need S&B 30k+ health tank to do that.