Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Just give hem a stam return when hit. Like adrenaline rush but when hit. And they are gtg

Didn't we just nerf this mechanic into the ground for 'balance reasons'? Why add it back in?

Because it was never removed, the max stam return was just capped. It still gives Redguard by far the best Stamina sustain in the game because Adrenaline lets you stack more damage since the Stamina returned on melee is the same whether you have 1000 Stam Recovery or 3000 Stam Recovery.

Twohothardware wrote: »

Nord, Khajiit, Imperial, Wood Elf, and Breton all need changes to bring them in line with where the meta races Redguard, Argonian, and Dark Elf are at. There's too much of an advantage after the Morrowind changes to playing as Redguard in PvE and Argonian in PvP. The difference in sustain is very noticeable. The advantages these other races have are not.

This would be great to see.

I don't want seeing Dunmer, Argonian, Redguard or Altmer nerfed, but the other races should get a little help to be brought up to par.

With the change to the way stam will help calculate into LA damage now, it was kind of a stealth buff to redguard, making the go-to stam race even better. So maybe they should look at launch (or beta) Khajiit and revisit the crit damage buff they used to get. (Give them 1/2/3% bonus crit damage for each level of the passive) and I'd keep the crit chance as well.

Sounds strong, but when resources have been made super important since the MW patch, then races with great resource bonuses ended up with that similar 'stealth buff' that redguards got this patch.

Bretons are pretty weak as well, either they should get some more bonuses for some sort of damage or double down on the cost reduction bonus they get IMO.

Imperial also hasn't been that solid since they tweaks made to red diamond, if that was untweaked or re-tweaked as well, to actually be useful, then they would be pretty solid with the other bonuses they get.

Nord however are in a weird place. There bonuses aren't terrible, but when you put them into a specific role it becomes pretty narrow:

Damage mit - sure, great and all, but in the end it is never going to be a difference maker vs another class in PvE. Not like they will make a trial where you feel the power of your Nord's lower DPS while you watch everyone else take just that little tiny extra damage vs you and they die while you live. And for tanking it's not going to be a big difference maker either. Same with health regen - it's been pointed out this is a relatively useless stat since launch.

Maybe something like:
Stalwart: Increases Max Stam 2/4/6% and gives 2/4/6% stam cost reduction.
Rugged: Increases Max Health 3/6/9% + Cold Effect Immunity + Damage Reduction 1/3/5%
Beserker: Increases Melee Damage 1/2/3% + Increases Damage in Execute range 1/2/3%

I dropped cold damage reduction b/c it just doesn't seem useful, though an entire cold themed passive would be good if ice damage was ever added to the game in a good offensive way and not how it's used now. Then cold resistance and cold damage bonuses could be interesting, but as it stands, just the cold effect immunity would be strong enough if you gave them the other two bonus types.

The main thought with the changes I made is that the race would still make an acceptable tank with the stam/health bonuses, damage mit and stam cost reduction and the beserker passives would give a DPS build a bit of an edge to catch up to other stam races. Could end up too strong in the end, but even taking half of the changes could make a difference.

Amoureros wrote: »

In my opinion, Nord is the strongest race for pvp. Also It's really great when utilizing health regen. You should stop thinking only in pve dps standpoint.

20% Health Regen is of limited value in the current state of the game where it's so easy to apply 40%+ Major Defile to healing and health recovery. The most important bonus in PvP to be able to survive especially outnumbered is sustain and that's why Argonian has taken over even though the race has no bonus stamina and only 3% bonus magicka.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

And some people might think the %20 hp regen is useless, but its not. Its very strong when utilized, even with the defile. and especially because of defile.

I totally agree with this. People underestimate the power of health regen so much. 20% is a really big boost. And Nord is already ,let's say, arguably 10~15% tankier than other races. It's enough value to drop a defensive skill and put one more offensive or resource skill.

Nord --> 20% Health regen. --> Trollking --> Potion --> Hallo 3500k+ Health regen. in PvP!

KwarcPL wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

They're really not competitive for anything.

Truth has been spoken. Before adding Warden, they were even worse. It's because they had resistance againts element not used by anyone.

In PvP. There are enemies that use frost in PvE, though, not usually enemies anyone cares about.

If I want 20% health regen ill take orc over nord every day of the week.

Change the nord 6% damage reduction to +3300 or whatever physical resist. That would be really nice. Would open up new options for the tank thats already at cap. Help pvp'ers stay at cap despite enemy penetration, etc.

If we ever get some extra cold damage options for Warden would love to see a +10% cold damage passive

Amoureros wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Amoureros wrote: »

In my opinion, Nord is the strongest race for pvp. Also It's really great when utilizing health regen. You should stop thinking only in pve dps standpoint.

20% Health Regen is of limited value in the current state of the game where it's so easy to apply 40%+ Major Defile to healing and health recovery. The most important bonus in PvP to be able to survive especially outnumbered is sustain and that's why Argonian has taken over even though the race has no bonus stamina and only 3% bonus magicka.

Also defile affects all healing skills. so, in your perspective of thinking, every healing skills are also limited. So you'd better not use healing skills. Right?

And argonian is greater for sustain? This is wrong, You use potion every 45 seconds, Argonian gives 4620 resouces per 45 secs. Sure If you are using NB hit and run ganking build, Argonian might be great. But in the long fight, 4620 per 45 sec is very tiny value. Bosmer or high elf will do the better job for resource management and you do better to survive with Nord.

No, healing skills do not require you to give up other stats on your armor to gain Health Recovery bonuses and in PvP burst heals from things like Rally is what's most important because if you're getting attacked by a high burst damage player like Stamina Nightblade your health recovery isn't going to save you. With the change to Major Defile and the nerf to Troll King and Health Recovery it's more important to spec damage mitigation sets than Health Recovery.

High Elf is not even close on resource management and Wood Elf is only better if you have a very high Stamina Regen stat which requires you to give up damage for recovery. And Argonian's resource return is for not just Stamina but Magicka and Health and StamDK which is the most played class by a Nord you have half your skills using Magicka. You also get the resource return even while blocking and a StamDK is all about blocking in both PvE and PvP.

Twohothardware wrote: »

Zaryc wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Nord, Khajiit, Imperial, Wood Elf, and Breton all need changes to bring them in line with where the meta races Redguard, Argonian, and Dark Elf are at. There's too much of an advantage after the Morrowind changes to playing as Redguard in PvE and Argonian in PvP. The difference in sustain is very noticeable. The advantages these other races have are not.

Wood Elfs don't need a buff imo. They are the best race for Stamina NBs in PvP already, the 21% increased stamina regen is huge.

Argonian is arguably the best race for any Nightblade and even if it was Wood Elf that's the only class people choose Wood Elf. Wood Elf's passive for bonus damage in stealth does absolutely nothing on 4 out of the 5 classes in the game and PvE sustain is lower than Redguard because in PvE builds you don't have 2000+ Stamina Regen to benefit from 21% Recovery.

I don't see why Argonian should be the best race for all NBs. Maybe they are for PvP mNBs but definietly not for PvP stam NBs. And in PvE Dunmer, Altmer and Redguard are the best choices.

Of course a Redguard has better PvE sustain than a Wood Elf. You can't make one race the best for everything, that's not how balance works. Wood Elfs are in a pretty good spot for PvP atm, I don't see any reason to buff them. 6% max stam, 21% stam regen and the fact that you can't apply disease or poison status effects on them makes them really strong, especially on stam NBs.

They should rather do something for races like Nord, Imperial (mainly red mountain passive), Khajiit and Bretons.

Twohothardware wrote: »

No, healing skills do not require you to give up other stats on your armor to gain Health Recovery bonuses and in PvP burst heals from things like Rally is what's most important because if you're getting attacked by a high burst damage player like Stamina Nightblade your health recovery isn't going to save you. With the change to Major Defile and the nerf to Troll King and Health Recovery it's more important to spec damage mitigation sets than Health Recovery.

High Elf is not even close on resource management and Wood Elf is only better if you have a very high Stamina Regen stat which requires you to give up damage for recovery. And Argonian's resource return is for not just Stamina but Magicka and Health and StamDK which is the most played class by a Nord you have half your skills using Magicka. You also get the resource return even while blocking and a StamDK is all about blocking in both PvE and PvP.

For starter, Giving points to health regen is not giving up other stats, It makes you press heal skill less, attack more often. Do some basic math. It's fair trade off. No, actually it's better trade off. This mechanism won't fit the ganking build of course but it's actually better for balanced build. In addition, Health regen doesn't affected by battle spirit so it's actually very strong.

And Yes, health regen saves you every time, cuz you get more constant healing, you get to less defensive phase, more offesive phase. I get the feeling that you never tried health regen becuase you always assume that it is trash. right?

You are always talking about you bursting down situation. Maybe you only play ganking build? If you are not a ganker and If you bursting down so fast, You are already building it completely wrong.

If you are not making heavy attack focused build, you should have at least 2000 regen, at most 2700 regen. Yes High elf 9% is not so strong but it does more constant resource back. Bosmer's 21% gives *** ton of regen +300~400. It is so mush better than Argonian already.

The most disadvantage of argonian passive is drinking potion is situational. Sometimes you drink for health but your stamina is full, so you don't get any stamina back. When you drink for stamina but your health is full, you don't get any health burst. This is the main reason argonian is at awkward spot because Argonian passive never get to the full potential.

Another point below.

Dubious gives 319 stam regen, 3192 stamina, 3511 health.
Orcrest argony pale ale gives 446 health regen, 410 stam regen, 410 magicka regen.

Try sum it up, You will see which one gives more stats.
As you can see, you give up little, gain much more.
And you always have more regen amplifier than stat amplifier.

That's why I always choose 3 regen drink over dubios. I always gets advantage against people who doesn't know the power of health regen lolol so satisfying!

Zaryc wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Zaryc wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Nord, Khajiit, Imperial, Wood Elf, and Breton all need changes to bring them in line with where the meta races Redguard, Argonian, and Dark Elf are at. There's too much of an advantage after the Morrowind changes to playing as Redguard in PvE and Argonian in PvP. The difference in sustain is very noticeable. The advantages these other races have are not.

Wood Elfs don't need a buff imo. They are the best race for Stamina NBs in PvP already, the 21% increased stamina regen is huge.

Argonian is arguably the best race for any Nightblade and even if it was Wood Elf that's the only class people choose Wood Elf. Wood Elf's passive for bonus damage in stealth does absolutely nothing on 4 out of the 5 classes in the game and PvE sustain is lower than Redguard because in PvE builds you don't have 2000+ Stamina Regen to benefit from 21% Recovery.

I don't see why Argonian should be the best race for all NBs. Maybe they are for PvP mNBs but definietly not for PvP stam NBs. And in PvE Dunmer, Altmer and Redguard are the best choices.

Of course a Redguard has better PvE sustain than a Wood Elf. You can't make one race the best for everything, that's not how balance works. Wood Elfs are in a pretty good spot for PvP atm, I don't see any reason to buff them. 6% max stam, 21% stam regen and the fact that you can't apply disease or poison status effects on them makes them really strong, especially on stam NBs.

They should rather do something for races like Nord, Imperial (mainly red mountain passive), Khajiit and Bretons.

Idk if judging a race as viable because it does well on 1 Class in 1 area of the game can be called balanced though. Sure, Bosmer is great in PvP and alright in PvE but I'd rather each race be good all around, with niches they excel at here and there. Balance needs to be the goal and giving each race it's niche without making other races incapable of playing the same role effectively isn't exactly difficult either. I've been fine tuning some suggestions in regards to racial balance for awhile now and here's my suggestions on how to make each race equal parts viable and niche.

Redguards, Altmer and Dunmer are fine as is. Dunmer might be a little behind Altmer in terms of overall Magic Damage and sustain but make it up with more flexibility with their Max Stamina and Fire Resist/Burn Immunity and that's a healthy difference between the 2

Argonian:
Revert the potion passive from a flat value back to the 12% it was prior to One Tamriel. It's honestly the only suggestion that doesn't outright destroy Argonians that keeps some of its functionality for Tanks while keeping the race more in line with performance of other races, although by that same logic, Max Magic should go to 6% to increase their DPS to be closer to the other races as well.

Nords:
Add a 550 Stamina restore effect to the Rugged passive with a 4 second CD that occurs on taking damage. This makes it more sustainable as a Tank race, while finding niche use as a DPS or in PvP.
Stalwart could also use a slight buff from 6% Max Stamina and 20% Health Regen to 7% Max Stamina and 30% Health Regen. This change is incredibly minute in the grand scheme but I feel that it's a good thing. Nord Damage is crap in general so they should be among the Tankiness races to even it out and while Trollking abuse would be powerful on a Nord, I think that's a fine niche to have, Health regen needs a purpose after all.

Orcs:
Buff Brawny to 7% from 6%. Another minute change to a decent race but one I feel is necessary. It still won't outpace the purely DPS oriented races but it should be one of the more damaging Tank races in the game to make it stand out more as a race and it already does decent damage as is that any more would put it in too good a spot considering its nature bulk on top.

Imperial:
Alter Red Diamond to restore 750 Health and 400 Stamina every 5 seconds. Might be considered underpowered in comparison to Redguard or Nord restore, and restores less health than when you can proc it on live but Imperial is also one of the better Stamins races and have the highest stat total of all races that it's hard to justify giving them much more than that.

Khajiit:
Ditch the Health Regen entirely for 6% Max Health. Honestly, Health regen on Khajiit is crap as it doesn't help it out in any particular area and is largely ignored outside of Trollking builds, of which, you'd be better off with Orc in the 1st place as they're better geared towards that playstyle than Khajiit and get more mileage for it (my Nord suggestion puts them also as a top contender for the role).
Stealthy needs a nerf to preferably 6% Stealth Damage but I'm willing to negotiate to 7-8% instead. In exchange, it will offer 3% Max Stamina to help even out the damage loss from stealth.
Carnage gets buffed to 9% crit. This, coupled with the Max Stamina increase, should put them as more damaging than Redguard but lacking in the sustain department in comparison.

Bosmer:
Same thing as Khajiit, nerf Stealthy to 6-8% stealth damage for 3% more Stamina. Puts it on much closer terms to Redguard, while maintaining its PvP superiority.

Breton:
Add a 5% Magic Regen passive on top of the 3% Reduce cost passive. Bretons aren't a DPS race, never have been, never will be. Instead, it should be the undisputed Magic sustain race and the 2 passives would practically ensure that, especially after the Argonian change.

Those are my suggestions for each race. If anyone disagrees, FIGHT ME!!!

Keep in mind, that 6% DMG reduction does impact bleeds. So swapping it to armor is useless.

They should get block/dodge/break free reduction given they are drunken warriors.

Also give them a funny RP flavor with 20% extra unarmed DMG lol .

Twohothardware wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Keep in mind, that 6% DMG reduction does impact bleeds. So swapping it to armor is useless.

They should get block/dodge/break free reduction given they are drunken warriors.

Also give them a funny RP flavor with 20% extra unarmed DMG lol .

I'm down for any buff as long as it's a buff because Nord, Khajiit, Imperial and Breton have fallen too far behind Redguard and Argonian in PVE and PVP because ZOS completely re-did the game balance wise while leaving races the same as 2016.

I agree. Bretons could use a mag defense boost in conjunction with a cost reduction boost. Or an increase to shield use given in other elder scrolls games they get a bigger boost to Mysticism magics (which control wards/reflects/dispel magics) Or a chance to remove one negative effect on ability use.

Kitties should get a chance to gain cc imunity and more stamina since they are really strong with agility stats. Maybe run speed and chance to cause fear on direct attacks (like their Oblivion once a day racial spell).

Imperial is kinda ok. They might just need a way to increase penetration or extra crit dmg with an RP passive that gives them an increased chance to earn some gold on each item sold (given in other elder scrolls games they have terrible agility but better personality with an affinity for maces lol)

It's hard to believe but even for PVE tanking which is the only thing Nord was ever good for you've now got Argonian as the race recommended for tank builds because of the ton of extra sustain u get even while blocking from using potions.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-tank-build-pve/

Nord needs a Stamina return passive to compete with the resource advantage of Argonian or Nord needs to be converted into a damage focused race and made competitive with Redguard.

Comon ZOS, you can't go another major DLC without any Race Balancing at all, not when changes you're making in Summerset like light/heavy damage scaling more from max Stamina and reduced potion cooldown from a new Jewelry trait directly favors the already two meta races Redguard and Argonian the most.