A lot of rude players in the community

Azuramoonstar · April 2018

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

I once tried to help out a lowbie on his bow la spamming build when he qued into my vet scalecaller, he called me an elitist and said that high end players are toxic. Some lowbies take build critism badly

Only give advice if advice was asked for.

You didn't "give advice" because none was asked. You criticized him..you judged him. Criticizing generates destructive energy.

That's psychology 101.

No, it's more like "I'm sorry but your light attack bow build just doesn't give enough dps to finish this dungeon, if you want to increase your dps here is what to do...."

It's not just criticism and judging, it's letting them know that their build just isn't good enough and that "play how you want" can only get you so far.

of he didn't ask for help and if you didn't ask if he wanted help, you was being rude. in fact if that is what you said, that is very rude.

there is a right and wrong way to give advice, you did it in the worst way possible.

let me put it how you said it "i'm sorry, but the way you gave "advice" just sounds elitist, you have no idea how he is irl and came off like you had a stick up your butt. try to do better at giving advice"

sorry but you can't just treat others anyway you want.

Gnortranermara · April 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

of he didn't ask for help and if you didn't ask if he wanted help, you was being rude. in fact if that is what you said, that is very rude.

Wrong. Queuing into content that's over your head and expecting a carry from superior players is rude. Rejecting their helpful feedback, which you brought on yourself through poor performance in content you have no business running, is rude. If some light attack bow spammer is so bad that they can't pull their weight in the content, it would be perfectly justified to simply vote to kick. Offering helpful advice to improve their performance is a much kinder reaction that such a person should be grateful for.

Koensol · April 2018

Juju_beans wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

I once tried to help out a lowbie on his bow la spamming build when he qued into my vet scalecaller, he called me an elitist and said that high end players are toxic. Some lowbies take build critism badly

Only give advice if advice was asked for.

You didn't "give advice" because none was asked. You criticized him..you judged him. Criticizing generates destructive energy.

That's psychology 101.

This is so wrong I don't even know where to start. This overly individualistic mindset is exactly the reason why so many people these days get defensive when someone gives you well meant constructive criticism. This kind of insecurity portrayed as some false sense of confidence (who does he think he is correcting me!?) is what creates toxicity. Not the people who try to help other improve by being friendly and constructive. It helps to remember these people who like to make themselves look like the victim are just acting out of insecurity. They don't know better, because their parents probably told them they are perfect.

Aliyavana · April 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

I once tried to help out a lowbie on his bow la spamming build when he qued into my vet scalecaller, he called me an elitist and said that high end players are toxic. Some lowbies take build critism badly

Only give advice if advice was asked for.

You didn't "give advice" because none was asked. You criticized him..you judged him. Criticizing generates destructive energy.

That's psychology 101.

No, it's more like "I'm sorry but your light attack bow build just doesn't give enough dps to finish this dungeon, if you want to increase your dps here is what to do...."

It's not just criticism and judging, it's letting them know that their build just isn't good enough and that "play how you want" can only get you so far.

of he didn't ask for help and if you didn't ask if he wanted help, you was being rude. in fact if that is what you said, that is very rude.

there is a right and wrong way to give advice, you did it in the worst way possible.

let me put it how you said it "i'm sorry, but the way you gave "advice" just sounds elitist, you have no idea how he is irl and came off like you had a stick up your butt. try to do better at giving advice"

sorry but you can't just treat others anyway you want.

He didn't need to ask if he needed help, it was obvious that he did

Aliniel · April 2018

You haven't played League of Legends, have you? Well, just don't.

slickygm · April 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

I once tried to help out a lowbie on his bow la spamming build when he qued into my vet scalecaller, he called me an elitist and said that high end players are toxic. Some lowbies take build critism badly

Only give advice if advice was asked for.

You didn't "give advice" because none was asked. You criticized him..you judged him. Criticizing generates destructive energy.

That's psychology 101.

No, it's more like "I'm sorry but your light attack bow build just doesn't give enough dps to finish this dungeon, if you want to increase your dps here is what to do...."

It's not just criticism and judging, it's letting them know that their build just isn't good enough and that "play how you want" can only get you so far.

of he didn't ask for help and if you didn't ask if he wanted help, you was being rude. in fact if that is what you said, that is very rude.

there is a right and wrong way to give advice, you did it in the worst way possible.

let me put it how you said it "i'm sorry, but the way you gave "advice" just sounds elitist, you have no idea how he is irl and came off like you had a stick up your butt. try to do better at giving advice"

sorry but you can't just treat others anyway you want.

That's wrong on so many levels. Someone is dragging the whole group down, other players want to help them get to the point the rest of the group is instead of simply booting them. You say that's bad?

You see. People that react this way are a prime example of dunning-kruger effect, where they simply don't know enough or are not skilled enough to properly asess their own inabilities, resulting in a false perception of superiority. This quite often results in aggresion when confronted with truth.

It also works the other way around. Skilled and knowledgeable people falsely assume that things that are obvious and simple for them are like that for everyone else. They're often referred as being elitist or even toxic, while their remarks couldn't be further from that. That's one reason many people good at their job can't teach others to be like they are. They're unable to explain obvious things. You can see that in the game, but it is, obviously, not limited to it.

To sum it up. It's totally the other way around.

dan958 · April 2018

I must have some good luck, as I'm not sure if I have come across anyone that is rude. I sometimes see some questionable topics of conversations, normally in starter capitals - but not rude!

In fact, many people have been very helpful and kind.

M_Volsung · April 2018

@slickygm "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."

IwakuraLain42 · April 2018

klowdy1 wrote: »

The best experience I've ever had in an MMO is FF14. There are rewards given out after obtaining a certain number of commendations, which can be handed out (one per player) to anyone in your dungeon group you thought did well, wasn't a jerk, or any other reason you might want to reward someone. You can't hand them out to friends, or other people you joined the dungeon with, so no abuse of the system.

There is also a world chat made just for help. New players have one icon, and after doing a ton of different aspects of the game (assuring the player both knows what they are talking about, and is willing to help), players can be promoted to a higher rank, showing you are a willing mentor.

Games dont have enough aspects to incentivise people to go out of their way to be nice. There is a lot going into getting people to spend money (no hate), but nothing is done to get people to help out, or just not be total ***.

The game also rewards all players quite heftily when a player runs a dungeon for the first time. So yes, new players are always quite welcome, which tends to create a quite positive atmosphere in general.

Still_Mind · April 2018

As others have already said, ESO community is fairly decent in comparison to many other games.

WoW was plain awful by the time I left it. Some of the worst that I've experienced, ever. SWTOR , the way I see it, is not as toxic (still more toxic than ESO), but rather extremely whiny. Tera community is elitist to the core, especially regarding classes and personal skeelz, slightly less in terms of gear.

duendology · April 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I see you have met our elitist neckbeards. They dont like anyone that doesnt spend 12 hours on the game a day and doesnt take it as seriously as a heart attack. Because of their almost nonexistent real human contact, most of what humanizes them has been overwritten by the fact that they are a legend in their own mind and that being good at a video game will be the crowning achievement in their life.

I typically just ignore them.

SO MUCH THIS!!
I do love this game. I learn and want to perform well, because it's fun. Bot oh boy, it's not my raison d'etre therefore maybe I have more patience for just everyone in the game.. even utter jerks than those players for whom this game became the meaning of life, or something.

Also, about when to give advice. Maybe it's more common in Europe than in America. The general consensus here is that if you were not asked don't give advice as IT IS considered rude and obnoxious. Having said that ESO is a little bit different environment, especially the group activity here.

But it's not even the point here...
The thing is... it's not about giving advice ..... it's about how you do it.
You can do it constructively... or you can do it in this rude, condescending, and preachy way that is a)counterproductive, b)makes people want to strangle you with a mouse cord... Interestingly enough, people are usually not even aware that they behave like utter d**** when "blessing" someone with their brilliant piece of advice.

I've been playing ESO for a little over a year now (soon it will be one and the half) and encountered very few toxic people personally. I observed some dramas in chat. Then again, I avoid places where I know this toxicity exists....in pugs.

Sawzallz · April 2018

There isn't a hotfix for ***.

tinythinker · April 2018

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

The best experience I've ever had in an MMO is FF14. There are rewards given out after obtaining a certain number of commendations, which can be handed out (one per player) to anyone in your dungeon group you thought did well, wasn't a jerk, or any other reason you might want to reward someone. You can't hand them out to friends, or other people you joined the dungeon with, so no abuse of the system.

There is also a world chat made just for help. New players have one icon, and after doing a ton of different aspects of the game (assuring the player both knows what they are talking about, and is willing to help), players can be promoted to a higher rank, showing you are a willing mentor.

Games dont have enough aspects to incentivise people to go out of their way to be nice. There is a lot going into getting people to spend money (no hate), but nothing is done to get people to help out, or just not be total ***.

The game also rewards all players quite heftily when a player runs a dungeon for the first time. So yes, new players are always quite welcome, which tends to create a quite positive atmosphere in general.

Something I've suggested that ESO adopt.

Many games set up their the random dungeon queue for 1) getting tokens or other valued items, 2) leveling up alts, 3) progressing through story lines. That means putting experienced players into pugs with new(er) players. So xp, rare items, etc. function like an incentive or compensation for experienced players to group up with those will less experience/poorer gear.

There have been many threads on mechanisms for helping people learn basic group mechanics and roles, which other games tend to have, but not even a /lurk from any devs over the years.

GreenhaloX · April 2018

BuildMan wrote: »

@GreenhaloX
Just because words do not upset someone doesn’t mean they are in denial. Some people just have thicker skin. A lot of people seem to forget that.

Ahh, yes, @BuildMan.. the thick-skin thing. I have spent decades in the company of tough-hardened men as military, police, fire fighters and the likes, in which professions are bolstered by superiors that we need to have thick-skin, suck it up and drive on mentally. You know what, we are all just fresh and blood human beings with all different kinds of emotions. Whether you try to perceive to yourself or others how tough as nail or steel you are, at the end of the day, everybody needs an outlet in one way or another. Hopefully, it's a passive outlet. I feel that folks claiming to have thick skin are similar to the cliché of sweeping things under the rug (or carpet.) As the phrase goes, it is done so when the dirt, hair balls, whatnot are swept under the rug, it is out of sight and everything above looks clean and peachy. However, the dirt and whatnot are still there under the rug. Similarly, in-game, many times over you have to put peeps on block and ignore, but it is just like sweeping things under the rug. The problem is gone for you solely, but the problem dude/dudettes are still on there plaguing others who have yet to block (or report) them. Ha ha

Words are the most trivial things. It can be dull or the sharpened sword. Doesn't matter how tough someone perceive they are, everyone need an outlet; whether, it is simply talking it out with a good friend or a significant other about it, or writing it out over a blog or forum as this. You need to vent. As in this forum, folks come on to vent; however, some seem to be more diplomatic and constructive than others, but, nonetheless, it is a way to relieve whatever tension or whatever may ails you. As for me, ESO has been my outlet. I take out my frustrations on them adds/mobs and bosses. Well, at times, I do come on to vent on this forum, but I try to be diplomatic and constructive; despite some trolls and not-so diplomatic nor constructive comments/feedbacks.

As for the thick-skin thing, unfortunately, many of the men I knew who have sucked it up for quite a long time. Well, they just seemed to have kept things bottled up inside of them for so long, and it was just a ticking bomb which, unfortunately, exploded. Condolences to them and the victims on the aftermath.. sigh.. Peeps, it's ok. We are just human, and we all need to vent and not keep things inside all the time. It can be very unhealthy and self-harmful. However, please do vent in ways, passively, that it doesn't disrespect, berate or throw more sharpened swords (words) directed toward others.

vamp_emily · April 2018

Aliniel wrote: »

You haven't played League of Legends, have you? Well, just don't.

What is LL like?

yiasemi · April 2018

/hugz not a console command yet? anytime. Just ask my altmer, don't let the Morag Tong and Telvanni gear scare you, I'll summon any of my pets just for you. I let others pull the plug on dolmens. But don't steal my treasure chest when my inventory is full. I'll get cross and give you the Abacean ratter. He scares me.

Asardes · April 2018

I didn't encounter obvious signs of "toxicity". Indeed some people do rather immature jokes, like sitting near a crowded place like a bank teller and throwing mud balls, or making fun of each other over the zone chat. I've also seen some people say rude things about certain ethnicities, but that's just things I move away from.

I've encountered plenty of bad players in dungeons, in random groups over my first year, and that's the reason I don't run veteran content with random people anymore. I mean I've done the part of explaining strategies, pointing out mistakes in rotation and build that lead to low DPS, only for that to be ignored, and I've even been cursed by some of those players. And they weren't even new to the game, some had quite high CP, and were simply morons. As a result, when I do run with random groups, usually to farm some odd missing piece of gear on normal mode, I will only explain once, and if ignored and as a result the run fails, I either leave the group, or vote to kick the player who fails. If people don't listen and "play their way" thus causing the group to fail it's the right thing to do. There's nothing "elitist" about it, as there's nothing "elitist" by kicking someone from the soccer team when he keeps scoring own goals. Maybe some of the allegedly "toxic" and "elitist" players that you've encountered are really good people that have been simply fed up with failing again and again because team mates keep behaving badly. That tends to grind your patience quite a lot in the long term, to burn you out, and to actually degrade your gameplay.

I've been trough that and there's a simple long term fix to insulate yourself from bad players that don't want to improve and hold you down, by finding a guild with good players, that help you improve, that make trial and dungeon runs enjoyable. Nowadays I only play group content in this game with friends and guild mates, and I'm far less tense and nervous than before. My gameplay has suffered because I ran with bad group. For example I tend towards somewhat selfish builds as tank, so I can heal myself at any time, I block-cancel my attacks as DD, cast Vigor every rotation instead of DPS skill and block/dodge a lot when there's a "red circle" because because I'm not used to being healed properly. As a result I can't really put up the amount of DPS as I otherwise would, and I cannot tank as well as other of my guild mates. It will take time to grow out of it. So yea, playing with bad players for a long time is what turns out to be "toxic".

Juju_beans · April 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

Sixsixsix161 wrote: »

I played WoW for about 14 years, and that game and the players were fine for a long time. However, as time passed, a few years ago, Blizzard reduced the number of employees and it became noticeable in the support area. People got rude in-game, and then in chat, without negative results.

Eventually, there was a program you could get called Gear Score. It would evaluate everything you were wearing/using, and assign a numerical value to your gear. From then on, people looking for other players in chat would use that gearscore number as a minimum level of qualification they wanted you to have to join their pug/raid. Like: LF Healer xx raid, GS 875 or higher.

That program was heatedly discussed in the forum, and it got really ugly. And then in chat. I mean really ugly. And afterwards, it seems the playerbase never really recovered from that. When I left WoW last year, for good, the server I was on was a regular cesspool. Over time, it just got worse, and Blizzard never did a thing about it. Then, several years ago, they suddenly started this program where players put in a complaint about you, you would automatically get banned, immediately. Then you would have to contact a game master is you wanted to file an appeal, but by that time, the ban was already over. So, that was abused, and I don't know if they still have it, but that was poorly thought out.

This game, so far, is very nice. I don't raid, so I haven't seen anything bad, and I hope it stays that way.

Whoa. I didn't know something as simple as gear score would become so toxic!

In ESO, the "requirements" so to speak tend to be based on either your CP or DPS. It's much more prevalent in raiding and also Vet Hard Mode of DLC dungeons. For the vast majority of ESO's content those things barely matter.

Wow exposed everything...your gear, your combat numbers so addons were written to gather those numbers and display them.

Someone dies in a dungeon..everyone checks their addons..vote kick the lowest on the dps meters.

zaria · April 2018

logarifmik wrote: »

No offence, but it sounds kinda hippie. Seriously, personally I hardly ever encountered rude people in ESO. If you want to see how a community with a lot of rude players looks like, try DotA 2.

Same, rude is rare, that is outside the general trash talk on zone you get sometimes.
Even failed dungeon runs at most end in "group suck" before leaving.

Ocean_Charlie9 · April 2018

I've seen players being rude with others but not to me.

And that's something I can't forget. If you are being rude and unpolite to someone, I'll definetly not stay quiet. I don't like rude people, I've been rised that way, with kindness and being polite and respectful even if you don't recive the same from others.

And in this game, I'm always happy to help and most important, to recive any kind of advice. If the advice comes with a more critical or destructive maners, I'll just stay polite, no need to be rude. If what you say to me doesn't help at all, I'll thank you anyway. Imho that's a healthy way of playing, and living. No drama, right?

Talos bless you all.

Twenty0zTsunami · April 2018

briflexia wrote: »

So I am sure not one to judge people at all but during my short time period on this game I have definitely ran into quit a few people who talk crap on low levels they play with and I just don’t understand why they do so, if you have such a problem with people why stay in a group with them and not just leave? Yes this is probably a stupid post but for such a beautiful game why do people still have to hate, I may never understand.

have you ever played video games before? Because this is nothing new.

RebornV3x · April 2018

Yeah the ESO community is horrible worst MMO community I've been apart of if this wasn't an Elder Scrolls game I would have left long ago.

Aliyavana · April 2018

RebornV3x wrote: »

Yeah the ESO community is horrible worst MMO community I've been apart of if this wasn't an Elder Scrolls game I would have left long ago.

I feel you havnt played many mmos

maltinkilic · April 2018

pandoraderomanus wrote: »

Well, after playing some russian mail.ru F2P games I can say that this game is almost perfect in terms of communication between players.

You can put annoying players on ignore list. Or vote to kick. Or report.

There are a lot of Russian guildies in this game who are very nice people. I wouldn't discriminate people based on their nationalities but I understand what you mean from my DOTA 2 days. So at least I can say people here are less salty.

Soul_Marrow · April 2018

Katahdin wrote: »

It's not the community, people in general are more rude everywhere

This is exactly right. I blame social media culture and bad parents for most of it. People are inherently awful until taught otherwise through nurture and culture...but yes, this game has a ton of terrible, sad, sarcastic people who play it.

Rain_Greyraven · April 2018

Malakor wrote: »

“Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”

― Robert E. Howard

Thank you for reminding me of this awesome saying by Howard...It shall now be my signature.

thedude33 · April 2018

Agree. This phenomenon of people being rude to each other on the internet is a recent thing. I don't worry about it though because this whole interweb thing is a fad. Won't be around forever.

Another quote for you,

At his best, man is the noblest of all animals. Separated from law and justice, he is the worst.

Aristotle

Kalgert · April 2018

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

It's not the community, people in general are more rude everywhere

I'm not sure I agree with that.

lets look at ESO FFXIV and Guild Wars 2.

In GW2 and FFXIV there is a real danger of getting your account deleted if you act like a Dungnozzle in game or on the forums not temporarily suspended, but permanently deleted in a very public humiliating and unforgiving way. The result from all extensible purposes is a very well mannered community, because of actual consequences.

In ESO there are no real consequences for anything, sure you might get a forum ban but forums are not attached to your game account and five bucks for a new key gets you back spewing hate.

Forum users can call for the shaming of players who support the business model, call them vile names and they will more than likely get rewarded with the title of community ambassador. groups of players can follow you around and whisper death threats to you for riding a Apex mount...and not a solitary thing will be done about it.

There are consequences to this to.....and the consequence is a community that looks more like League of legends than a mmo community.

Well. That certainly is interesting to know.

I still have a Guild Wars 2 account, but I kinda skipped on the game because the constantly developing story was a bit too much to go with (That and the Thorny expansion had an absolutely horrible location to be in). Final Fantasy I am also avoiding because... Well... Final Fantasy. That and I don't want to buy a game with a mandatory subscription on it. I can play WoW for that, and even that game I abandoned.

Otherwise, yeah, I'd consider getting in to that game. While I am worn out on Guild Wars 2.

jerj6925 · April 2018

briflexia wrote: »

So I am sure not one to judge people at all but during my short time period on this game I have definitely ran into quit a few people who talk crap on low levels they play with and I just don’t understand why they do so, if you have such a problem with people why stay in a group with them and not just leave? Yes this is probably a stupid post but for such a beautiful game why do people still have to hate, I may never understand.

Gone with the younger generations is the common decency that used to be the norm, with no accountability for ones actions or words people strive to become the lowest common denominator and take pride in that. More often than not people conduct them selves in a way they would never consider in person or in public... I blame the parents for not raising children better.

thedude33 · April 2018

jerj6925 wrote: »

briflexia wrote: »

So I am sure not one to judge people at all but during my short time period on this game I have definitely ran into quit a few people who talk crap on low levels they play with and I just don’t understand why they do so, if you have such a problem with people why stay in a group with them and not just leave? Yes this is probably a stupid post but for such a beautiful game why do people still have to hate, I may never understand.

Gone with the younger generations is the common decency that used to be the norm, with no accountability for ones actions or words people strive to become the lowest common denominator and take pride in that. More often than not people conduct them selves in a way they would never consider in person or in public... I blame the parents for not raising children better.

Deja Vu all over again. The same thing is said for every generation.