Please Add Number Statistics in Trials- This will benefit everyone

zaria · April 2018

Juju_beans wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

lol at "fun stats". Yeah those stats will be used to compare players..exclude or include.

Wow is a great example of how that works.

Doesn’t wow have an enormous raiding community, while this game’s raiding community barely exists? Not sure what point you’re trying to make.

Seeing those stats helps people strive to improve. Atm you can “feel” like you did good or bad yet have zero idea how you actually performed, making it nearly impossible for most raiders to improve themselves.

Oh it's not just raids. Players are kicked in dungeons as well for low dps.

I got kicked from a dungeon for "low dps". I was the healer and a few of my spells also did damage.
It was the low damage showing up on the meters after a player died that got me kicked. (couldn't be helped..he ran way ahead out of LOS).
Then they tried to invite me back when they realized I was the healer.

You know that is more scary, you are healer and you do 60% of dps.
Now in normal fungal 1 with new players this is cute, in vet darkshade 2 it is not. For vet dlc do not get into that setting.

klowdy1 · April 2018

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

Lol great reply, why?

Because showing everyone's damage and healing, it helps hone the elitism in an already flooded game.

NupidStoob · April 2018

Everybody knows that a dummy test only tests potential DPS, but if your potential DPS is already not good then that certainly won't change under mechanics. The whole point of a dummy test is to just get a baseline. People who actively have to think about their rotation, because they don't know it well enough to hit good numbers will struggle massively as soon as they have to do other things as well.

What I dislike about posts like these is that people always try to streamline every aspect of the game towards their own goals. Nothing gives you the right to dictate others how they should play the game. Why does it matter if some group wants incredible high dps parses before they even consider you. If you have a problem with that you obviously play the game to completely different standards than them and wouldn't fit into the group anyways.

There are always people who play the game similar to you. Find them, make a guild or join one that plays by the standards you play. Build your own communities, with all the social media around the game this really isn't too difficult. This is how you have fun in a game like this.

There are things in this game that you are gated from doing unless you put in some effort. Endgame raiding is part of it. If you don't put any effort into getting half decent gear or learning a proper rotation (both not difficult, it's all on youtube) then you can't just expect to be carried through endgame content by others. Let's say you want to be rich, but don't care for trading. Do other people have to just give you money so you can reach the goal you want? That's how many comments here come across.

Data is just data and nothing else. There will be many people who will abuse it and many people who will use it to help others. A vet testmode where you would get statistics over own and group performance after every encounter in a trial would not be a bad thing and be a great tool for self and group improvement.

Sevn · April 2018

Private? Hell to the yes! Public? Hell mfing no! The only reason to want it public is to exclude. Why do you need to know Bob did x amount when you know you did y amount? To *** on Bob and tell him gitgud.

DoctorESO · April 2018

Forced statistics of all participants? This is a recipe for an unhealthy dose of elitism.

Vaoh · April 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

Forced statistics of all participants? This is a recipe for an unhealthy dose of elitism.

Private. Not public.

temjiu · April 2018

While I'm not a huge fan of metrics, I do have to say I agree with you to a point OP, as far as this game is concerned.

If they didn't want players to push for exclusivity, they never should have pushed a competitive endgame into ESO. But it's here, and yet they avoid the tools that would make that environment more balanced.

I was in a guild trial run where I was basically told I need to wear X set and Y jewelry and run Z buffs. NO evidence, just what was the meta. Instead of basing their feedback on my actual performance, it's a generic wish list. even if people don't want the comparisons, they are still there, just in a more crude aspect and more ignorantly based. In and environment like this, I'd almost prefer numbers, that way at least they could back up what they are saying, or I could show them it doesn't matter in X case.

Honestly, I'd prefer the competitive aspect of the game to go away, but I know it won't. So we should at least have the tools to honestly make ourselves better.

craftycarper73 · April 2018

bring trials numbers in on consoles and the elitists can sit there in the trial lobbys shaking each others members at what they have got.

BeefyMrTips · April 2018

temjiu wrote: »

While I'm not a huge fan of metrics, I do have to say I agree with you to a point OP, as far as this game is concerned.

If they didn't want players to push for exclusivity, they never should have pushed a competitive endgame into ESO. But it's here, and yet they avoid the tools that would make that environment more balanced.

I was in a guild trial run where I was basically told I need to wear X set and Y jewelry and run Z buffs. NO evidence, just what was the meta. Instead of basing their feedback on my actual performance, it's a generic wish list. even if people don't want the comparisons, they are still there, just in a more crude aspect and more ignorantly based. In and environment like this, I'd almost prefer numbers, that way at least they could back up what they are saying, or I could show them it doesn't matter in X case.

Honestly, I'd prefer the competitive aspect of the game to go away, but I know it won't. So we should at least have the tools to honestly make ourselves better.

Exactly my thought process. It doesn’t cure the sickness but at least they get a chance and the numbers will do the talking

klowdy1 · April 2018

It will never happen. It is a way to exclude, so ZOS wouldn't do it. Even WoW, where many addons have been baked into the game, doesn't have anything like this.

Juju_beans · April 2018

klowdy1 wrote: »

It will never happen. It is a way to exclude, so ZOS wouldn't do it. Even WoW, where many addons have been baked into the game, doesn't have anything like this.

Oh there are plenty of addons for wow that show combat numbers and even a website that displays combat logs.
Players are called out and dps stats from these logs are linked in party/raid chat so everyone can see.

There's even a mythic dungeon ranking system website that is used to include/exclude players.

Merlin13KAGL · April 2018

Cryptical wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

It would benefit ESO and it’s clients to have numbers generated at the end and or during every Trial on console servers. The numbers could show everyone’s damage done, healing done, damage taken, most deaths, etcetera I am sure there could be a lot of stats to include fun ones produced.

The argument against this is that people will be excluded because of their low numbers or inability to produce results that a more dedicated gamer will produce. The problem with this argument is that this already happens. People already get bullied based on their ability to do damage and they get excluded if they do not conform to what is considered Best in Slot (BIS).
Currently, the only way a DPS character can join a decent trials guild is by showing what they can do on a 3 mil or 6 mil dummy. It only shows their potential DPS but doesn’t take into account the players ability to perform in a harsh setting or if a certain class is better in certain trials than others. As it stands people constantly argue that one class is always best in slot and that class should wear certain sets to produce optimum results. It is a reality that there WILL ALWAYS BE ONE CLASS WITH CERTAIN SETS (BEST IN SLOT) in existence when it comes to DPS testing on a dummy in an environment that does not challenge you.

The problem with this is that it fosters a belief system that one is better than another from the get go without actually being able to prove it. I firmly believe that someone can be exceptionally good at one class and its play style and do better as a team mate/damage dealer in a trial or dungeon than someone who has practiced with what is deemed BIS on a 3 mil dummy. People then choose to limit their creativity and wants based on what will be accepted by the whole. How many people have created new characters just to be accepted when the character they love may out perform a cookie cutter formatted character? (This argument includes Raid Parsing)

This also helps with armor sets and limiting the need to constantly try to balance with nerfs and buffs. I believe someone can design a playstyle that fits for them that incorporates set armor that really plays to their strengths and needs instead of trying to fit them into the cookie cutter standard of sets.

I believe we can prove with this request that the game could be even better and perhaps stop limiting our fellow adventurers who want to be a part of a great group by giving them an honest chance to prove that their character can be amazing. Furthermore, I believe some classes and races are better in certain trials than others, this means that a gamer would need to become more versatile in their gameplay which allows a gamer to further challenge themselves by having other classes and races in their arsenal to turn to in order to be most effective for their team vs just the “BIS”.

This request is brought to you by someone who has run Vet Trials, been stuck with bad groups and had the privilege of working with solid teams. I will always prefer someone who does a stable 30k DPS over someone who will do anywhere from 20-40k inconsistently in a Trial. I have seen raid parses under 2 min get stuck on easy sections of trials because someone only knows how to fight a test dummy or they switch their fighting style from how they go at a dummy vs how they go at mobs attacking them in trials. Lets get rid of the elitest way of thinking by giving every PERSON not BIS class/armor sets a chance to prove themselves.

I skipped reading all the replies because I agree that playing the character well across the variables of combat is better than reaching the pinnacle numbers on the narrow scenario of a mob that is motionless and without any disruptive mechanics.

From personal experience as a healer, if I am faced with the choice between top performing dps that needs perfect placement with babysitting, and a mid performing dps that gets out of red and rezzes appropriately and doesn’t lose their mind if the boss comes at them... I will take that mid performer every single time. I push to be better myself, without needing sparkly gear. I am proud to be good enough to nearly pull off a no death run of scalecaller with non-bis sets, zero gold pieces, an impen armor trait that slipped by me, and blue jewelry. If you pay attention to more than your own numbers then you don’t get surprised by much.

@Cryptical , well said.

What people tend to fail to realize is there are baselines to both parts. If you (as a group) cannot hit those baselines, whether mechanical or damage related, you're not going to clear.

One without the other is utterly useless, and it's becoming more apparent that ZoS is trying to design content that requires coordination and cooperation, not just crazy high dps numbers.

Designers make content with a purpose in mind. Their goal is for the mechanics to matter, as well they should.

Parses are a baseline only. Even then, unless you have someone parse a construct for 26 million, or average 4-5 6 million parses, it's still only an approximation.

Your numbers go up in group due to buffs. Your numbers go down in group due to mechanics. In the end, the average will hopefully be fairly close to what the parse shows.

As you, as a group and as an individual, get better with mechanics and group synergy of a particular fight, your numbers should go up more than they go down.

TL;DR; There are a number of ways the group has to synergize. Any of a dozen things can be the downfall. Bad players, bad raid lead, wrong gear, fatigue...they all factor in.

It is no one thing. I find it doubtful that such a tool would be able to be made to truly be helpful, rather the information would be taken at face value without the very important context that sometimes explains why the numbers say what they do.

DoctorESO · April 2018

klowdy1 wrote: »

It will never happen.

Never say never. Oops, I just said never. Oops, I just said it again.