Please Add Number Statistics in Trials- This will benefit everyone

BeefyMrTips

Plus during the initial testing to see if someone is good in a trial, I am pretty sure that they would be told Focus on DPS only, right? lol my argument could easily be, we need to do a dps dummy test with three roll dodges or blocking for 3 seconds to simulate a trial

Juju_beans

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

The ultimate goal is to get away from choosing people based on what they can do to a DPS dummy. Its unrealistic but keeps so many people fr

Juju_beans wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

I agree but then if people are given responsibilities to do these extra steps that keep them from doing DPS then Id assume they have already proven their DPS in a trial and are relied upon more.

If this is a problem how about allowing for a third option: Normal, Veteran, Veteran Test

Then you'd have dps players not rezzing because it would impact their numbers.
Does it then become the healer's job to rez players because the dps need to be focused on their numbers ?

My answer to that, Rez stat. Who did how many? It would easily justify their lower dps and show who is being a team player and give the appropriate acknowledgement that those thankless jobs should receive

Gee then you also have to account for lost dps on those that died and didn't get razzed by their fellow players for a good few minutes.

So besides your "rez stat" you'll also need another stat to account for loss of dps due to death..an extrapolation number.

I don't know of any team that doesn't appreciate someone rezzing, much less a team who would not want to see if someone is not doing their fair share of work. A person rezzing could easily make the argument that they contribute more DPS because they brought people back to life

How many games have you played where metrics are used and visible to all players ?

Dapper Dinosaur

As a console player, the day target skeletons were added to the game was the day I started dramatically improving as a player, because I grinded out the dummy for the first time on my characters and saw sub-15k dps. That was an eye-opener.

I also support the idea that people shouldn't depend on dummy parses so much. I have far better survivability than most players I've been with (always one of the last people standing, etc), but because I can't get a 25k feedback result on a dummy, my only hope of ever getting into a vet trial that isn't AA as an argonian-only player is to tank, because I haven't dedicated myself to grinding out SPC for my healer because everyone else has decided that if you don't have SPC you're not even worth considering bringing.

AlnilamE

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

Hey Everyone: I never claimed that this would fix people being excluded. In fact I know this would exclude people.

All the more reason why it shouldn't be in-game.

Why did you take this out of context when I also obviously stated that test dummies already do this. I will answer by saying this will at least allow somebody to be excluded after they tryout in a trial.

You can also manipulate the numbers on a dummy. Force off-balance, etc... So what's your point? We need more food for the "elitists" to keep other people from playing?

No.

This "food" would at least have to be proven vs the manipulation of a dummy. or should we continue to resign ourselves that only high dps parses on dummies should allow people into vet trials as a dps character?

No. But as I said earlier, you can take someone into a vet dungeon and see how good they are at mechanics. Can you run them through HM Mazzatun without them dying? How about CoS, where they need to be able to make it back to the last boss quickly? That would give a raid leader the kind of information you are looking for.

If you really think that adding a long list at the end of a trial that adds all the damage/buffs/debuffs/heals/rezzes, etc that happened throughout the trial is going to be anything more than epeen, you are mistaken. You will be drowning people in data.

Juju_beans

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

As a console player, the day target skeletons were added to the game was the day I started dramatically improving as a player, because I grinded out the dummy for the first time on my characters and saw sub-15k dps. That was an eye-opener.

I also support the idea that people shouldn't depend on dummy parses so much. I have far better survivability than most players I've been with (always one of the last people standing, etc), but because I can't get a 25k feedback result on a dummy, my only hope of ever getting into a vet trial that isn't AA as an argonian-only player is to tank, because I haven't dedicated myself to grinding out SPC for my healer because everyone else has decided that if you don't have SPC you're not even worth considering bringing.

The right race, the right gear, the right skills and a min level of dps.
That's what the trial community wants.

BeefyMrTips

Juju_beans wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

The ultimate goal is to get away from choosing people based on what they can do to a DPS dummy. Its unrealistic but keeps so many people fr

Juju_beans wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

I agree but then if people are given responsibilities to do these extra steps that keep them from doing DPS then Id assume they have already proven their DPS in a trial and are relied upon more.

If this is a problem how about allowing for a third option: Normal, Veteran, Veteran Test

Then you'd have dps players not rezzing because it would impact their numbers.
Does it then become the healer's job to rez players because the dps need to be focused on their numbers ?

My answer to that, Rez stat. Who did how many? It would easily justify their lower dps and show who is being a team player and give the appropriate acknowledgement that those thankless jobs should receive

Gee then you also have to account for lost dps on those that died and didn't get razzed by their fellow players for a good few minutes.

So besides your "rez stat" you'll also need another stat to account for loss of dps due to death..an extrapolation number.

I don't know of any team that doesn't appreciate someone rezzing, much less a team who would not want to see if someone is not doing their fair share of work. A person rezzing could easily make the argument that they contribute more DPS because they brought people back to life

How many games have you played where metrics are used and visible to all players ?

First, this question is flawed. I am not talking about another video game and I am not talking about every aspect of ESO either. I am specifically targeting Vet Trials.

Metrics are visibly shown in many games to include chess, are you referring to online games only? could you be more specific?

BeefyMrTips

AlnilamE wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

Hey Everyone: I never claimed that this would fix people being excluded. In fact I know this would exclude people.

All the more reason why it shouldn't be in-game.

Why did you take this out of context when I also obviously stated that test dummies already do this. I will answer by saying this will at least allow somebody to be excluded after they tryout in a trial.

You can also manipulate the numbers on a dummy. Force off-balance, etc... So what's your point? We need more food for the "elitists" to keep other people from playing?

No.

This "food" would at least have to be proven vs the manipulation of a dummy. or should we continue to resign ourselves that only high dps parses on dummies should allow people into vet trials as a dps character?

No. But as I said earlier, you can take someone into a vet dungeon and see how good they are at mechanics. Can you run them through HM Mazzatun without them dying? How about CoS, where they need to be able to make it back to the last boss quickly? That would give a raid leader the kind of information you are looking for.

If you really think that adding a long list at the end of a trial that adds all the damage/buffs/debuffs/heals/rezzes, etc that happened throughout the trial is going to be anything more than epeen, you are mistaken. You will be drowning people in data.

I completely agree but the only people taken into those vet dungeons and permitted those kinds of tests are tanks and healers. DPS get a failing grade before they can even tryout if they hit lower than the required dps on a dummy.

BeefyMrTips

Juju_beans wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

As a console player, the day target skeletons were added to the game was the day I started dramatically improving as a player, because I grinded out the dummy for the first time on my characters and saw sub-15k dps. That was an eye-opener.

I also support the idea that people shouldn't depend on dummy parses so much. I have far better survivability than most players I've been with (always one of the last people standing, etc), but because I can't get a 25k feedback result on a dummy, my only hope of ever getting into a vet trial that isn't AA as an argonian-only player is to tank, because I haven't dedicated myself to grinding out SPC for my healer because everyone else has decided that if you don't have SPC you're not even worth considering bringing.

The right race, the right gear, the right skills and a min level of dps.
That's what the trial community wants.

This is the problem, it limits the game and a majority of people who really enjoy being a character that doesn't fit a mold. The reason why our raid community is so small is because no one is given the chance as a dps if they cant hit numbers only available to certain races, classes, and sets. The trial community is governed by people that set such finite rules like this, which can and are often referred to as "elitist" they build a castle of their own convenience and only allow those to enter who are like them and kick everyone else who is not, out.

Juju_beans

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

As a console player, the day target skeletons were added to the game was the day I started dramatically improving as a player, because I grinded out the dummy for the first time on my characters and saw sub-15k dps. That was an eye-opener.

I also support the idea that people shouldn't depend on dummy parses so much. I have far better survivability than most players I've been with (always one of the last people standing, etc), but because I can't get a 25k feedback result on a dummy, my only hope of ever getting into a vet trial that isn't AA as an argonian-only player is to tank, because I haven't dedicated myself to grinding out SPC for my healer because everyone else has decided that if you don't have SPC you're not even worth considering bringing.

The right race, the right gear, the right skills and a min level of dps.
That's what the trial community wants.

This is the problem, it limits the game and a majority of people who really enjoy being a character that doesn't fit a mold. The reason why our raid community is so small is because no one is given the chance as a dps if they cant hit numbers only available to certain races, classes, and sets

Oh I totally agree with you. And that community will get smaller and smaller as time goes on..players leave while new players can't get a foot in the door. But it's their own doing. And then guilds will fall apart because they don't have enough players. Seen it happen in wow.

Best bet is to find a casual guild just getting into vet/trial runs and run with them. i've seen several postings of such guilds in the guild recruitment subforums (PC though).

Sting864

Colecovision wrote: »

Data is good. Tools are good.

Data and tools are neither good or bad... Proper use of these things is good. Improper use is bad...
Unfortunately I have seen much more improper than proper use....

BeefyMrTips

Juju_beans wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

As a console player, the day target skeletons were added to the game was the day I started dramatically improving as a player, because I grinded out the dummy for the first time on my characters and saw sub-15k dps. That was an eye-opener.

I also support the idea that people shouldn't depend on dummy parses so much. I have far better survivability than most players I've been with (always one of the last people standing, etc), but because I can't get a 25k feedback result on a dummy, my only hope of ever getting into a vet trial that isn't AA as an argonian-only player is to tank, because I haven't dedicated myself to grinding out SPC for my healer because everyone else has decided that if you don't have SPC you're not even worth considering bringing.

The right race, the right gear, the right skills and a min level of dps.
That's what the trial community wants.

This is the problem, it limits the game and a majority of people who really enjoy being a character that doesn't fit a mold. The reason why our raid community is so small is because no one is given the chance as a dps if they cant hit numbers only available to certain races, classes, and sets

Oh I totally agree with you. And that community will get smaller and smaller as time goes on..players leave while new players can't get a foot in the door. But it's their own doing.

Best bet is to find a casual guild just getting into vet/trial runs and run with them. i've seen several postings of such guilds in the guild recruitment subforums (PC though).

I agree with you and am actually trying to start this with a casual guild I help run. I suppose I am looking for a quick fix to a problem that exist in many games. I think there is a way through this maze of knowledge that we all share on these forums and I like to believe that through discussion that if we cant find the answer maybe we can atleast start asking the right questions so we can solve the issues.

BeefyMrTips

I just hate seeing people quit because they cant find a guild who will give them the time of day because their character is different and not the greatest dummy parser but rock in vet dungeons

Regardless, I appreciate all of y'alls inputs. I have a better understanding of my question and answer I was looking for now.

Oakmontowls_ESO

The argument about people being excluded due to their bad performance reeks of entitlement. In a hard trial I would expect everyone in there to want to try their best and if that isn't good enough, to improve. Without that level of expectation it is impossible to do some of these harder trials. If you are going into a trial with the expectation that everyone else is going to carry you through (and that isn't the agreement) then you have no business being in that group.

Juju_beans

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

The argument about people being excluded due to their bad performance reeks of entitlement. In a hard trial I would expect everyone in there to want to try their best and if that isn't good enough, to improve. Without that level of expectation it is impossible to do some of these harder trials. If you are going into a trial with the expectation that everyone else is going to carry you through (and that isn't the agreement) then you have no business being in that group.

That was not the argument at all.

Oakmontowls_ESO

Juju_beans wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

The argument about people being excluded due to their bad performance reeks of entitlement. In a hard trial I would expect everyone in there to want to try their best and if that isn't good enough, to improve. Without that level of expectation it is impossible to do some of these harder trials. If you are going into a trial with the expectation that everyone else is going to carry you through (and that isn't the agreement) then you have no business being in that group.

That was not the argument at all.

The argument was people using this data to exclude people.

Juju_beans

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

The argument about people being excluded due to their bad performance reeks of entitlement. In a hard trial I would expect everyone in there to want to try their best and if that isn't good enough, to improve. Without that level of expectation it is impossible to do some of these harder trials. If you are going into a trial with the expectation that everyone else is going to carry you through (and that isn't the agreement) then you have no business being in that group.

That was not the argument at all.

The argument was people using this data to exclude people.

Not being able to do consistent 40K dps on a target dummy does not automatically equate to "bad performance".
Isn't 35K good enough ? An arbitrary number got set as the goal post. And that arbitrary number will get raised as more people find ways to get higher dps numbers on those dummies.

BeefyMrTips

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

The argument about people being excluded due to their bad performance reeks of entitlement. In a hard trial I would expect everyone in there to want to try their best and if that isn't good enough, to improve. Without that level of expectation it is impossible to do some of these harder trials. If you are going into a trial with the expectation that everyone else is going to carry you through (and that isn't the agreement) then you have no business being in that group.

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

The argument about people being excluded due to their bad performance reeks of entitlement. In a hard trial I would expect everyone in there to want to try their best and if that isn't good enough, to improve. Without that level of expectation it is impossible to do some of these harder trials. If you are going into a trial with the expectation that everyone else is going to carry you through (and that isn't the agreement) then you have no business being in that group.

That was not the argument at all.

The argument was people using this data to exclude people.

The discussion was that people are getting excluded already and that this info would at least allow them to show what they can do in a trial and not judge them solely on dummy dps parse.

BeefyMrTips

Juju_beans wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

The argument about people being excluded due to their bad performance reeks of entitlement. In a hard trial I would expect everyone in there to want to try their best and if that isn't good enough, to improve. Without that level of expectation it is impossible to do some of these harder trials. If you are going into a trial with the expectation that everyone else is going to carry you through (and that isn't the agreement) then you have no business being in that group.

That was not the argument at all.

The argument was people using this data to exclude people.

Not being able to do consistent 40K dps on a target dummy does not automatically equate to "bad performance".
Isn't 35K good enough ? An arbitrary number got set as the goal post. And that arbitrary number will get raised as more people find ways to get higher dps numbers on those dummies.

You would think so and I agree completely but my thought process is

1. dummy parse dps is not real, it is only their potential and that their gameplay in a harsh trial will change to show what their dps really is.
2. other classes, skills, etc with the right playstyle could outperform because they are designed for harsh trials and not dps dummy testing
3. No one will ever get that chance to see, if we stick with dps testing on dummies, only because there will always be the optimum race, class, rotation etc. BIS

Juju_beans

Personally I'd like to see a dummy that fights back.

BeefyMrTips

Juju_beans wrote: »

Personally I'd like to see a dummy that fights back.

Lol I was thinking of that at lunch. Id be cool with that. Yes!!!

CurlyQTip

Juju_beans wrote: »

Personally I'd like to see a dummy that fights back.

If you lose to the dummy, does that mean the game uninstalls itself?

BeefyMrTips

CurlyQTip wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Personally I'd like to see a dummy that fights back.

If you lose to the dummy, does that mean the game uninstalls itself?

I would expect as much, most definitely

Colecovision

Sting864 wrote: »

Colecovision wrote: »

Data is good. Tools are good.

Data and tools are neither good or bad... Proper use of these things is good. Improper use is bad...
Unfortunately I have seen much more improper than proper use....

You need to have them in order to use them correctly and I still maintain that toxic people will find a way. Helpful people will find a way. If you've seen more improper use then that's who we have gaming with us. The insecure nature of wanting to stick with those people is odd to me. I want to be in the right place with the right people. If that's not here, then I'll just go clear portal again.

I had a dps run off a healer the other night just because the healer wasn't a templar. We were just going to beat the final boss in vCoH. It's one of the easiest dungeons in the game. I needed help after soloing the whole rest of the dungeon, but apparently it was going to be impossible on that last boss without a templar healer. Those two bailed and the tank and I duoed it. He was helpful (and awesome) and that other guy was a jerk. Class was sufficient data for his true colors to come out. The fact that I cleared the rest on my own brought the best out in that tank. My crappy dps didn't stop him from friending me.

People are who they are. Find the good ones and data can help you improve together.

Royaji

I think you are overcomplicating this. Saying that dummy parse is not representative is not completely true. They are a very basic competency test. Yes, you might not be able to pull 35k in a trial all the time. But if you can't pull 35k on a dummy there is no way you are pulling that in trial. No matter how perfect your mechanics knowledge is.

A good DD will usually see higher DPS in an actual trial due to buffs and support. Actual dummy heroes are not as common as you make them be. People who care to get 30k+ DPS are already invested in the game enough to understand the mechanics.

It all falls down to very simple issue. You can't force over people to play with you. If they want a 40k DPS DD in their group and you can only pull 25k, they are not interested in you. It's not a build issue. Bring in something that can pull 40k and fits the role they are looking for (melee/ranged) and they will take you even if you are an argonian hybrid warden. Just pull that 40k they are asking for.

Maybe people who can't get 40k+ DPS should not try to join leaderboards runs for a carry? Get a guild of your level and enjoy the game. Progress trials together. It will not be as smooth. You will not get your skin first weekend. But you can still do it. Or just increase your DPS to any arbitrary number and join the leaderboards guild of your dreams.

BeefyMrTips

Royaji wrote: »

I think you are overcomplicating this. Saying that dummy parse is not representative is not completely true. They are a very basic competency test. Yes, you might not be able to pull 35k in a trial all the time. But if you can't pull 35k on a dummy there is no way you are pulling that in trial. No matter how perfect your mechanics knowledge is.

A good DD will usually see higher DPS in an actual trial due to buffs and support. Actual dummy heroes are not as common as you make them be. People who care to get 30k+ DPS are already invested in the game enough to understand the mechanics.

It all falls down to very simple issue. You can't force over people to play with you. If they want a 40k DPS DD in their group and you can only pull 25k, they are not interested in you. It's not a build issue. Bring in something that can pull 40k and fits the role they are looking for (melee/ranged) and they will take you even if you are an argonian hybrid warden. Just pull that 40k they are asking for.

Maybe people who can't get 40k+ DPS should not try to join leaderboards runs for a carry? Get a guild of your level and enjoy the game. Progress trials together. It will not be as smooth. You will not get your skin first weekend. But you can still do it. Or just increase your DPS to any arbitrary number and join the leaderboards guild of your dreams.

But the thing is that there are people who can pull 40k on dummy but only 20k in trial. I also feel this is probably true for many players. Whereas a 30k dps that is stable through a trial will outperform. I'm basically saying that dummy dps is not true dps that defines their competency. An individual that has dps'ed through a trial would be a more accurate representation. I'm saying the people who brag about getting 42k dps might also be the ones who need to be replaced.

Sure a 31k dps will never do 40k. But I'm pretty sure in a 1-2 hour trial there is room for a more competent 31k to outperform a 40k

Royaji

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

I think you are overcomplicating this. Saying that dummy parse is not representative is not completely true. They are a very basic competency test. Yes, you might not be able to pull 35k in a trial all the time. But if you can't pull 35k on a dummy there is no way you are pulling that in trial. No matter how perfect your mechanics knowledge is.

A good DD will usually see higher DPS in an actual trial due to buffs and support. Actual dummy heroes are not as common as you make them be. People who care to get 30k+ DPS are already invested in the game enough to understand the mechanics.

It all falls down to very simple issue. You can't force over people to play with you. If they want a 40k DPS DD in their group and you can only pull 25k, they are not interested in you. It's not a build issue. Bring in something that can pull 40k and fits the role they are looking for (melee/ranged) and they will take you even if you are an argonian hybrid warden. Just pull that 40k they are asking for.

Maybe people who can't get 40k+ DPS should not try to join leaderboards runs for a carry? Get a guild of your level and enjoy the game. Progress trials together. It will not be as smooth. You will not get your skin first weekend. But you can still do it. Or just increase your DPS to any arbitrary number and join the leaderboards guild of your dreams.

But the thing is that there are people who can pull 40k on dummy but only 20k in trial. I also feel this is probably true for many players. Whereas a 30k dps that is stable through a trial will outperform. I'm basically saying that dummy dps is not true dps that defines their competency. An individual that has dps'ed through a trial would be a more accurate representation. I'm saying the people who brag about getting 42k dps might also be the ones who need to be replaced.

Sure a 31k dps will never do 40k. But I'm pretty sure in a 1-2 hour trial there is room for a more competent 31k to outperform a 40k

People who are looking for 40k+ DPS are not doing 1-2 hour trials. Everything that is not at least speedrun worthy is not an option to them. 10 minutes for vAS+2. 20 minutes for vMol HM. 31k DPS DD has nothing to do in such group. They don't need rezes. If someone dies the whole run gets reset.

I say once again. Dummy heroes are not that common. Someone who can pull 42k DPS can damn sure stay away from red.

Cryptical

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

It would benefit ESO and it’s clients to have numbers generated at the end and or during every Trial on console servers. The numbers could show everyone’s damage done, healing done, damage taken, most deaths, etcetera I am sure there could be a lot of stats to include fun ones produced.

The argument against this is that people will be excluded because of their low numbers or inability to produce results that a more dedicated gamer will produce. The problem with this argument is that this already happens. People already get bullied based on their ability to do damage and they get excluded if they do not conform to what is considered Best in Slot (BIS).
Currently, the only way a DPS character can join a decent trials guild is by showing what they can do on a 3 mil or 6 mil dummy. It only shows their potential DPS but doesn’t take into account the players ability to perform in a harsh setting or if a certain class is better in certain trials than others. As it stands people constantly argue that one class is always best in slot and that class should wear certain sets to produce optimum results. It is a reality that there WILL ALWAYS BE ONE CLASS WITH CERTAIN SETS (BEST IN SLOT) in existence when it comes to DPS testing on a dummy in an environment that does not challenge you.

The problem with this is that it fosters a belief system that one is better than another from the get go without actually being able to prove it. I firmly believe that someone can be exceptionally good at one class and its play style and do better as a team mate/damage dealer in a trial or dungeon than someone who has practiced with what is deemed BIS on a 3 mil dummy. People then choose to limit their creativity and wants based on what will be accepted by the whole. How many people have created new characters just to be accepted when the character they love may out perform a cookie cutter formatted character? (This argument includes Raid Parsing)

This also helps with armor sets and limiting the need to constantly try to balance with nerfs and buffs. I believe someone can design a playstyle that fits for them that incorporates set armor that really plays to their strengths and needs instead of trying to fit them into the cookie cutter standard of sets.

I believe we can prove with this request that the game could be even better and perhaps stop limiting our fellow adventurers who want to be a part of a great group by giving them an honest chance to prove that their character can be amazing. Furthermore, I believe some classes and races are better in certain trials than others, this means that a gamer would need to become more versatile in their gameplay which allows a gamer to further challenge themselves by having other classes and races in their arsenal to turn to in order to be most effective for their team vs just the “BIS”.

This request is brought to you by someone who has run Vet Trials, been stuck with bad groups and had the privilege of working with solid teams. I will always prefer someone who does a stable 30k DPS over someone who will do anywhere from 20-40k inconsistently in a Trial. I have seen raid parses under 2 min get stuck on easy sections of trials because someone only knows how to fight a test dummy or they switch their fighting style from how they go at a dummy vs how they go at mobs attacking them in trials. Lets get rid of the elitest way of thinking by giving every PERSON not BIS class/armor sets a chance to prove themselves.

I skipped reading all the replies because I agree that playing the character well across the variables of combat is better than reaching the pinnacle numbers on the narrow scenario of a mob that is motionless and without any disruptive mechanics.

From personal experience as a healer, if I am faced with the choice between top performing dps that needs perfect placement with babysitting, and a mid performing dps that gets out of red and rezzes appropriately and doesn’t lose their mind if the boss comes at them... I will take that mid performer every single time. I push to be better myself, without needing sparkly gear. I am proud to be good enough to nearly pull off a no death run of scalecaller with non-bis sets, zero gold pieces, an impen armor trait that slipped by me, and blue jewelry. If you pay attention to more than your own numbers then you don’t get surprised by much.

wolfxspice

Would be cool, everyone would finally be able to see how bad my build is, I would be able to say "yah guys you been carrying me this whole time" it would be funny.

But honestly, i would like to see what I'm hitting in a trial.

Sting864

Colecovision wrote: »

People are who they are. Find the good ones and data can help you improve together.

I'm sure you believe that... And in the "best of all possible worlds" that is true. I have been running trials since they've been out... I think when the console version released.... And I have only been in 1 trial out of all those where "that guy" who likes to tell you how to play your mechanics better than he can actually DO his job is being "that guy..."

Vaoh

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

Raid awareness could mean that they don't have to play as much defense thus allowing them to do more damage or knowing where not to stand so that they don't die giving them a total DPS of 0. Someone with more raid awareness but lower dummy dps could outperform a high dummy dps

Vaoh wrote: »

If someone is amazing with raid awareness, there is no way to measure that via stats. But anyone interested in trying a new player for a raid group can take them into a vet dungeon with difficult mechanics and watch how they do.

Though in the "fun stats" department, a "Took more damage than the Tank" achievement would be something.

@BeefyMrTips Your comment on Page 2 of this thread (the one I quoted above) says it was written by me, when actually it was written @AlnilamE .

Please fix that. I was so confused for a sec when I read it lol.