Healing without Resto Staff

Tasear · April 2018

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349428/sorcerer-healers-collection-dragon-bones-updated-new-build-added#latest

If you are simply looking for something different.

VilniusNastavnik · April 2018

My healz tank. Last updated when I was 660. Need to update the build. Designed for coordinated 4 man content. Uses no staves.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=23813

Built with inspiration from this one: https://tamrielfoundry.com/articles/db-the-resplendent-bastion-a-templar-healtank-bu/

Not a build I would run in a pug. As it is Mag based, I can swap to full Healer set up with the press of a button for Pugs. It's designed for a situation where you have 4 players who know what they are doing and are comfortable with self heals and mechanics to bring 3 DPS and 1 Hybrid Healz Tank. Basically everyone stays within Tank's Warden ring, and gets Trees as heals when they are not self healing. Budding Seeds also goes down every time it procs but is not a spam-able. I may end up back baring a Resto Staff after the patch drops and moving some skills around to boost the output of the trees bar.

Edit: updated for CP 720

sneakymitchell · April 2018

dreamer05 wrote: »

My main is a healing sorc, which I love. I play healers in all MMOs, and generally play all healing classes. Problem is I'm getting so bored with resto staff already. Are there healing builds without resto staff? More specifically I just started a warden, and would like to not go that route. Any ideas? Also, would be interested to hear if any ice warden builds are viable yet?

Only difference is that resto staff gives u more resources when heavy attacking.

Tasear · April 2018

oh duh, yeah you can try to become a heal tank! Taking on two rules at once could be fun!

SoLooney · April 2018

lemme know how the healing is with no springs, mutagen/rapid regen, combat prayer.

just spam your twilight i guess

generalmyrick · April 2018

dreamer05 wrote: »

My main is a healing sorc, which I love. I play healers in all MMOs, and generally play all healing classes. Problem is I'm getting so bored with resto staff already. Are there healing builds without resto staff? More specifically I just started a warden, and would like to not go that route. Any ideas? Also, would be interested to hear if any ice warden builds are viable yet?

i healed vet coh2 with a dual wielding templar.

dreamer05 · April 2018

SoLooney wrote: »

lemme know how the healing is with no springs, mutagen/rapid regen, combat prayer.

just spam your twilight i guess

Are you not reading? I'm asking for warden.

Again, my sorc uses resto staff.

Sheezabeast · April 2018

It's too bad you don't wanna use a resto staff for your Warden, my healer mag Warden uses the Asylum resto staff and it works really well.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2018

you sure can build a wardent that heals without a resto staff, have you heard of stamina warden healer?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349045/yffres-guardian-stamina-warden-pve-healer-morrowind

@Cellentel

Grabmoore · April 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

you sure can build a wardent that heals without a resto staff, have you heard of stamina warden healer?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349045/yffres-guardian-stamina-warden-pve-healer-morrowind

@Cellentel

Interesting. Still, no combat prayer = useless to the group.

You can run nearly any content without a healer or with any build. Not providing required buffs as a healer makes you a burden though. Healing itself is meaningless, healers need to offer support. That is only, if you care for a good build of course. You can still run, what you like. Some people just won't like to run with you anymore.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2018

Grabmoore wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

you sure can build a wardent that heals without a resto staff, have you heard of stamina warden healer?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349045/yffres-guardian-stamina-warden-pve-healer-morrowind

@Cellentel

Interesting. Still, no combat prayer = useless to the group.

You can run nearly any content without a healer or with any build. Not providing required buffs as a healer makes you a burden though. Healing itself is meaningless, healers need to offer support. That is only, if you care for a good build of course. You can still run, what you like. Some people just won't like to run with you anymore.

You absolutely don't need combat prayer, if the healer is doing more then the 16%( in a perfect world and not playing with any nightblades) more dps then the combat prayer would be providing. And that build would be providing major Slayer amost off cool down. That is a lot.

Grabmoore · April 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Grabmoore wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

you sure can build a wardent that heals without a resto staff, have you heard of stamina warden healer?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349045/yffres-guardian-stamina-warden-pve-healer-morrowind

@Cellentel

Interesting. Still, no combat prayer = useless to the group.

You can run nearly any content without a healer or with any build. Not providing required buffs as a healer makes you a burden though. Healing itself is meaningless, healers need to offer support. That is only, if you care for a good build of course. You can still run, what you like. Some people just won't like to run with you anymore.

You absolutely don't need combat prayer, if the healer is doing more then the 16%( in a perfect world and not playing with any nightblades) more dps then the combat prayer would be providing. And that build would be providing major Slayer amost off cool down. That is a lot.

Healer doing DPS..... Why take a healer to the group then? I prefer smooth and fast runs. A good healer would provide Combat prayer, SPC, ele drain, orbs and major slayer while doing 10k dps. Of course, easy DLC dungeons or vDSA don't need a healer. Guess what, the tank equips a resto in those groups for the combat prayer.

I disagree. Healer needs to provide combat prayer. If I could choose 2 things I expect from my healer, it would be SPC and combat prayer.

Anotherone773 · April 2018

Grabmoore wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

you sure can build a wardent that heals without a resto staff, have you heard of stamina warden healer?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349045/yffres-guardian-stamina-warden-pve-healer-morrowind

@Cellentel

Interesting. Still, no combat prayer = useless to the group.

You can run nearly any content without a healer or with any build. Not providing required buffs as a healer makes you a burden though. Healing itself is meaningless, healers need to offer support. That is only, if you care for a good build of course. You can still run, what you like. Some people just won't like to run with you anymore.

You realize >90% of groups need healers for content, right?

Tasear · April 2018

Grabmoore wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Grabmoore wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

you sure can build a wardent that heals without a resto staff, have you heard of stamina warden healer?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349045/yffres-guardian-stamina-warden-pve-healer-morrowind

@Cellentel

Interesting. Still, no combat prayer = useless to the group.

You can run nearly any content without a healer or with any build. Not providing required buffs as a healer makes you a burden though. Healing itself is meaningless, healers need to offer support. That is only, if you care for a good build of course. You can still run, what you like. Some people just won't like to run with you anymore.

You absolutely don't need combat prayer, if the healer is doing more then the 16%( in a perfect world and not playing with any nightblades) more dps then the combat prayer would be providing. And that build would be providing major Slayer amost off cool down. That is a lot.

Healer doing DPS..... Why take a healer to the group then? I prefer smooth and fast runs. A good healer would provide Combat prayer, SPC, ele drain, orbs and major slayer while doing 10k dps. Of course, easy DLC dungeons or vDSA don't need a healer. Guess what, the tank equips a resto in those groups for the combat prayer.

I disagree. Healer needs to provide combat prayer. If I could choose 2 things I expect from my healer, it would be SPC and combat prayer.

Why? I mean they do make a good point. Made straight away think of nightblades with all heals over times and intense damage. That's high up time on spc and nobody dying.

The goal is to buff dps and one way is with more damage yourself.

Violynne · April 2018

dreamer05 wrote: »

Problem is I'm getting so bored with resto staff already. Are there healing builds without resto staff?

As the game is designed currently, I'd say the answer to this question is "no".

Most other healing builds are for sustain. A few spells do assist others, but no where near the level of a resto staff.

Vigor (earned in PvP) is a great healing spell for any class, but again, not as powerful as resto. It could be enough, though, to offer an alternative.

Have you thought about playing something other than a healer? Perhaps go for a "combat medic", using some spells to offer healing while you can fight. Of course, you won't be strong, but it may help cure the boredom.

Just some thoughts.

CurlyQTip · April 2018

Tbh I've found that an absolutely massive amount of my healing on warden comes from AoE healing, and healing springs also lets me top health on Templar quite easily. Resto staff skills are very good augments to normal class skills.

Lets say tank is at the boss and DPS are far away. Lay down budding seeds and then spread healing springs to cover everyone. Lets me cover a pretty huge area of space quickly. If it was a trial that would include even more people.

I find that Warden is harder to learn than templar, however I find it much more rewarding in the end. Templar is absurdly reactive, and I play it as such, while Warden is a lot more about positioning yourself so you can use Enhanced growth on all group members, and keeping AoE's up. Laying budding seeds before an attack to heal immediately after is incredibly satisfying.

If we were talking pure class skills, Templar has some pretty solid advantages that Warden misses out on, while Warden has a lot of solid advantages as well, such as light attacks healing, absurd AoE range, a really solid recovery buff cone heal, and mobility. However I've found that a group that likes moving around a lot in a large area is very hard to deal with on warden.

Both of these classes however can be made even more powerful once you add the resto staff and energy orb into the mix. But they're both good enough on their own without it.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Sanguine altar costs 1700 magic and lasts for 46 seconds and has a synergy that heals for 40% health. Hardly a waste. Oh and has a 28 meter range.

When you depend on your team to use a synergy to heal you end up with a dead team some of the time.

Budding seeds for example, an 8m radius, 28 meter range, and I can crit it for 20k+ health, which is more than half of most tanks, and much more health than a DPS will have. The only way Alter's 40% heal could maybe be useful is for maybe tanks with absurd health, and even then healing them yourself is automatic to them and easy, a good tank would be able to recover themselves a little if needed.

Cost isn't that much of an issue when you have proper sustain and lay spells down properly. Alter's cast time makes it even weaker because in the time you cast it you could already have two healing springs down at both DPS and tank.

It's far better to use that skill slot for something like elemental drain to boost DPS and recovery, or a preventative skill like bone shield (Though people don't always activate the synergy sadly)

Yzalirk · April 2018

Why would you not play a Templar?

CurlyQTip · April 2018

Yzalirk wrote: »

Why would you not play a Templar?

Tbh Templar and Warden are both incredibly fun, sadly templar looks like its getting huge nerfs next update (summerset)

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2018

@CurlyQTip the six second duration of budding seeds makes it a no go for me. Way too sort of a time to keep up all the time. And you need 2 casts to get that burst heal, so it fails there too, much better to use ward ally then hit them with combat prayer. I use sanguine altar to proc spc more and keep a aoe "heal" going all the time. My atlat does about 1k hps per person, so that is almost 50k heals per 1700 magic cast, that is absurd value. The synergy is just a bonus to me. BTW, 40% of a dps health is around 7k. More then enough to save their lives.

The only heal from the warden toolkit I use on my warden healer is enchanted growth, for the Regen buffs. That is it. Otherwise you have better options with undaunted and the resto staff.

But that is not the topic at hand.

CurlyQTip · April 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@CurlyQTip the six second duration of budding seeds makes it a no go for me. Way too sort of a time to keep up all the time. And you need 2 casts to get that burst heal, so it fails there too, much better to use ward ally then hit them with combat prayer. I use sanguine altar to proc spc more and keep a aoe "heal" going all the time. My atlat does about 1k hps per person, so that is almost 50k heals per 1700 magic cast, that is absurd value. The synergy is just a bonus to me. BTW, 40% of a dps health is around 7k. More then enough to save their lives.

The only heal from the warden toolkit I use on my warden healer is enchanted growth, for the Regen buffs. That is it. Otherwise you have better options with undaunted and the resto staff.

But that is not the topic at hand.

I've never had issues with the 2 cast nature of budding seeds. If anything I play with it in mind to my advantage, to work as a preemptive AoE. I can keep it up for most of the fight by activating it right after it heals someone and leaving it for when its needed.

a 20k heal per teammate without synergy, that I can spam VS a 7k one, I just cannot see how alter is useful at all. Especially when I can get them to max hp and activate SPC through heals over time.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2018

@CurlyQTip I am aware of how to use budding seeds. I stated that 6 seconds is way to short to reliably have up, while keeping combat prayer up, while keeping lighting wall up, while tossing out 3 orbs, while keeping eledrain up and so on. I simply don't need the 20k+ heals you are coveting so dearly, I hit the do with combat prayer for around 10k per hit. Every 10ish seconds anyway, with the Minor health steal from altar, this is enough most of the time and if someone does get low, ward ally then combat prayer is just more effective then casting budding seeds twice, 10k+ ward and minor berserk. For big heals, I have illustrious healing. Casts that twice, you get more healing then buddling. For longer.

What heals over time do you use? There are almost none in the warden tool kit. Leaching vines only works when the player gets hit and the Minor health steal only lasts for 10 seconds.

Ilsabet · April 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

you sure can build a wardent that heals without a resto staff, have you heard of stamina warden healer?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349045/yffres-guardian-stamina-warden-pve-healer-morrowind

@Cellentel

I was going to post this build. I've used it effectively in a few group dungeons (admittedly only a few because it's an alt that I haven't focused on outside of dungeon-related events). I'd say it's worth trying if you're looking for something outside the norm that can still do the job in many situations. It would be an interesting project to get good at the skill set and see how far you can push the difficulty on the content you can do. The gear sets provide some group buffs that you're not getting from resto skills, and you can swap skills in and out to balance healing/damage depending on your group. And it's lulzy being a bow healer with a stam-set destro backbar.

CurlyQTip · April 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@CurlyQTip I am aware of how to use budding seeds. I stated that 6 seconds is way to short to reliably have up, while keeping combat prayer up, while keeping lighting wall up, while tossing out 3 orbs, while keeping eledrain up and so on. I simply don't need the 20k+ heals you are coveting so dearly, I hit the do with combat prayer for around 10k per hit. Every 10ish seconds anyway, with the Minor health steal from altar, this is enough most of the time and if someone does get low, ward ally then combat prayer is just more effective then casting budding seeds twice, 10k+ ward and minor berserk. For big heals, I have illustrious healing. Casts that twice, you get more healing then buddling. For longer.

What heals over time do you use? There are almost none in the warden tool kit. Leaching vines only works when the player gets hit and the Minor health steal only lasts for 10 seconds.

Mostly depends on what I need. Though we likely we will never agree on too much because we probably have radically different playstyles. My playstyle for warden is mostly "Keep everyone absolutely topped, and keep an AoE just in case they get hit". It's more preventing and healing through damage really, opposite of how I play templar.

Springs will pretty much get tank and dps effectively. I've learned to use Seeds as a delayed heal, where I lay it down, energy orb, springs, mutagen, and reuse it until those go down while I heavy attack. Biggest use I see from Seeds is when DPS and tank are seperated. I'll keep seeds up at tank, while I cover DPS with Springs, or prayer, or growth.

I should try to add alter to this though and see how it works with my playstyle, I could lay alter and/or seeds near tank and then help dps.

as for heal over time mutagen is really an awesome skill. Natures embrace does far more heal over time over shorter distance but its not practical for actually keeping up on an entire group. I use it if I need extra mobility for emergence heals, but that's about it, keeping it up for the whole group would be impossible. Resto staves absolutely augment warden for sure.

Androconium · April 2018

Who would you heal?
My guess is that if you arrive in any Vet related activity, as a healer, without a Resto staff; then your popularity rating would not be all that high.
Maybe it could be ok at dolmens and world bosses.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2018

I've learned to use Seeds as a delayed heal,

How many times do I have to say it. I know this is how you use it. It is simply inefficient to do so when there are other options, better options, more safe options to use, just like it was inefficient to use healing ritual on a templar. Six seconds is just way to short of a time to be good.

I see mutegen as unessential, with altar going you have a heal ticking every second already, for and every one doing damage, if you need a "Burst" heal, ward ally is the best. Protects you and someone else. Mutegen ticks every other second. And you have to cast it twice in four man stuff.

And I just remembered, I actually use lotus blossom now instead of inner light, so I can get major prophecy on both bars, as I dont use pots that give it to me. The magic loss is made up for by northern storm on that bar.

Though we likely we will never agree on too much because we probably have radically different playstyles.

My playstyle is healer. I use the best options that I see. Not sure how you decide.

CurlyQTip · April 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

I see mutegen as unessential, with altar going you have a heal ticking every second already, for and every one doing damage, if you need a "Burst" heal, ward ally is the best. Protects you and someone else. Mutegen ticks every other second. And you have to cast it twice in four man stuff.

It does have the added bonus of healing when they're under 20% health. One sad thing though is that it straight up sometimes doesn't hit the right people, so you end up having to do it three times.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

And I just remembered, I actually use lotus blossom now instead of inner light, so I can get major prophecy on both bars, as I dont use pots that give it to me. The magic loss is made up for by northern storm on that bar.

Lotus blossum is amazing. It's very nice to be able to get a little healing tick between abilities with a light attack, and a decent one with a heavy attack.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

My playstyle is healer. I use the best options that I see. Not sure how you decide.

What I mean by this is that there's enough skills and naunce in teso that you can have pretty good diversity in how you play.

I never use shields much in the game personally for example, something I see plenty of other healers doing.

Saphayla · April 2018

Sorcerers have it tough because we have only one Ultimate and one active ability that's capable of healing fellow players. Therefore I wouldn't say that Sorcerers are capable of decent healing without Restoration Staff. I think Nightblades have it easier and Templars have it easiest, because they have skill lines dedicated to healing and support. However, you're approaching healing wrong if you focus only on healing. There's a lot more to do when it comes to healing, such as buffing your teammates, restoring their resources, debuffing enemies and dishing out damage yourself. Here's how my skill bars looks for dungeons:

1st bar: Healing Springs, Mutagen, Combat Prayer, Summon Twilight Matriarch, Healing Orbs, Light's Champion
2nd bar: Power Surge, Liquid Lightning, Elemental Drain, Summon Twilight Matriarch, Elemental Blockade, Elemental Rage
(Preparing myself for the wave of criticism, "That skill is bad", "You should use that instead")

As you can see, despite being a healer with a Restoration Staff, only four out of the 11 abilites come from the Restoration Staff skill line, and instead of just healing, I often use Power Surge to buff myself, Elemental Drain to debuff the enemy, Combat Prayer to increase my teammates' damage output, Healing Orbs to restore their Magicka and Stamina, and Liquid Lightning, Elemental Blockade and Elemental Rage to deal damage (my single-target DPS is usually around 7k). Most of my heals come from the Twilight Matriarch, too. I constantly have Mutagen up to proc Spell Power Cure, and sometimes when we are bunched together and/or the Matriarch is taking a bit too much resources to heal, I switch to Healing Springs. Light's Champion is also quite useful when my teammates are dead (it happens sometimes, I can't protect them from one-hit kills like in Crypt of Hearts II or Spindleclutch I on Hard Mode) I can activate it and resurrect them without fear of being attacked and dying. I've cleared most of the Veteran dungeons in the game with this setup, including some DLC ones, including getting Survivor achievements, and I'm pretty sure lack of interest is the only thing preventing me from clearing out all Veteran dungeons. If the only thing I was ever doing was just healing teammates when they take damage, it'd be pretty boring and I would not be far less effective. Remember, Healer and Tank work as support. Healers heal, Tanks tank, but besides that they need to buff themselves and their teammates in order for the whole group to be more effective.

CurlyQTip · April 2018

Thinking about resto staves ult... Barrier is easily the best healing ult if not the best support ult in the game period, despite its absurd cost.

everyone stacked near you instantly gets a 25k to 30k shield + heals to full. Now the entire team can tank most damage while you get your magicka back. If it doesn't hit everyone you can think of shielded players as something to worry about later.

Outside of situational needs reviving barrier is just absurdly powerful. I wish more tanks ran this during hot moments, it keeps a lot of pressure off the healer the moment its used. Not exactly spammable though, more of an "oh god PANIC" button.

Lights champion though wins when it comes to range and the damage boost it gives. It lets a damaged DPS immediately kick it back up. I've had barrier just straight up miss people who were near me because I wasn't close enough, and because it costs so much I'm forced to heal them quickly.

eco_TR · April 2018

... sounds like eating by hand instead of using fork and spoon.

mocap · April 2018

i have DW+Destro Templar healer. Most of my heals comes from Pufirying light and a lil from Breath of Life. The rest is my humble 20K DPS which is a lot in PUG dungeons.

Kinda worried about 33% BoL nerf next update