Being an excellent 1v1er is more impressive then being an excellent 1vXer

IAVITNI · April 2018

Disagree

wozborne wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

wozborne wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

now ya got me wondering wozborne - what got you thinking about this...

i'm not familiar with dueling, just fighting in cyrodiil - I actually though feel less bad about getting killed by someone if the are also killing a few other folks too...

although bombers look super cool when they take out a half dozen or so different players, seems a little less impressive though than someone who is able to dodge roll, block, shield, heal and burst their way through 2 or 3 different players...

I’ve been dueling a lot on my Magsorc lately. Usually I can hold my own pretty well and have decent fights even if I Get beat. But some players (typically Atrocity members) like SpadeV_2 and others just absolutely destroy me, like not even close. Those people honestly impress me way more then someone that kills me with a cheap Dizzying Swing>DB after they been running around a rock for minutes on end. Yes, I get outplayed by both, but in one fight I’m fully ready to fight and have no excuse, and in the other it’s more not being able to hit them and then they surprise me when I’m not expecting it. Anyways sorry for the long winded explanation, but that’s how I got thinking about it since you asked.

@wozborne

#1 point is that a duel or 1vx is only impressive in an open world build.

Second, a proper 1vx is really just a bunch of isolated duels, dividing and conquering. I've done some 1vxs vs players that would hold their own in a 1v1. Hell, I've even x'd on people that I've lost to on occasion 1v1. You can win a 1vx vs equally skilled players, hence the existence of "expose" videos. What it comes down to is accurately assessing the situation and reacting accordingly, all on top of the combat mechanics that you would require in a duel. Those 1vx clips where you see 1vx'ers dropping 2-3 bodies all at once are only posted in montages. Lookup Miamiheat or Malcolm on youtube if you want to see some legit MagSorc 1vx's/

I'd say the biggest difference between you and Atrocity members is that they know how to differentiate between offensive and defensive windows. I'm pretty sure I've run with Spade at one point, Spade knows how to 1vx/outnumber. I'm also pretty sure we're in the same guild and that I've x'd on you on my stamblade xD which isn't my main class.

If you'd like we can run a duo/duel and I can point out why you're getting creamed by Atrocity members as I'm a magsorc main. Keep in mind that those are part of the elite players, I personally can't consistently beat them but if I were to duel them they would be the long,boring fights that pretty much only end when someone (usually me) gets punished for a mistake.

I get understand your points, I’ve got great respect for Xers like Miami. I think in general most 1vXers are also amazing 1v1ers, I highly doubt there’s many that consistently beat someone like Miami in duels regardless of how often he actually duels. Also, You’re in Forbidden’s guild right? Yeah we should duel or 2vX in Cyro sometime. I main a Stamblade but I can’t 1v1 for crap on it so I’ve been trying Magsorc to broaden my horizons. I could definitely use some advice because right now I can’t do much but passively sheild stack and lay down burst when I think they’re low on resources.

Anyone that 1vx's will be able to 1v1. As stated by many before, a 1vx is really just multiple 1v1's stretched over a period of time. This is especially true for a stamblade. Despite what many think, stamblades require Line of Sighting to 1vx effectively. It all comes down to determining the amount of time to kill (TTK) each individual opponent in a 1vx. There are a couple more layers as mentality/discipline becomes a huge factor.

And ya, I'm actually an officer I'm just not active in the guild as it's a large scale guild and I exclusively solo/small scale. PSN, message back here or tag me in discord whenever you want to play. While I still have a lot to learn on magsorc myself, I have almost 2 years of 1vx and duel wins under my belt so I'm sure I can teach a thing or two. Also, check out Malcoms magsorc vid on youtube. It's pretty lengthy but he really explains the class well. The only thing I would caution is his approach to well-fitted. Ideally, he is 100% correct but PC and Console have different latency issues so Impen is mandatory on console imo.

*Edit-Miami duels a lot more than you realize. IMO, 1vx tests your ability to survive while duels test your ability to kill moreso than anything else.

incite · April 2018

Disagree

Agreed to disagree

Checkmath · April 2018

Disagree

running around obstacles like rocks or in towers is very necessary for 1vX, because its the best mitigation in the game to get out of sight of a lot of players, so you get hurt only from a few enemies. then you can decide if you can counter or not. actually every 1vX players uses obstacles and LOS to mitigate, because an open field battle against multiple enemies is death. 1vX players die to coordinated 4 man groups because a coordinated group attacks simultanious, all four of them with a combo. guess what, nobody can mitigate or outheal a combo from 4 enemy players at the same time, its not possible. so LOSing and running around obstacles is the only way to deal with multiple enemies. it is used to create small time windows, where you can be offensive, where you dont get smashed by 4 enemies at the same time.

IAVITNI · April 2018

Disagree

Checkmath wrote: »

running around obstacles like rocks or in towers is very necessary for 1vX, because its the best mitigation in the game to get out of sight of a lot of players, so you get hurt only from a few enemies. then you can decide if you can counter or not. actually every 1vX players uses obstacles and LOS to mitigate, because an open field battle against multiple enemies is death. 1vX players die to coordinated 4 man groups because a coordinated group attacks simultanious, all four of them with a combo. guess what, nobody can mitigate or outheal a combo from 4 enemy players at the same time, its not possible. so LOSing and running around obstacles is the only way to deal with multiple enemies. it is used to create small time windows, where you can be offensive, where you dont get smashed by 4 enemies at the same time.

People also misunderstand how to properly LoS. Running around a tree is pointless unless you know how to do it. It sounds funny but its true. I can run around a tree for days and get nothing done. If you don't believe me, go pull +4 players to a tree and run around it while trying to kill them.

Priyasekarssk · April 2018

Agree

JXNwarrior wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Almost anyone can do 1vx in this game provided decent skills . Cp 160 vs cp 720 is almost 100 percent effective on cps alone . Dps 50 percent increase . Defense 50 percent increase . Cp 720 player can one shot multiple cp160 players. It's not prove anything other than you are a ok and try to fool others. If you want really become good in PvP play 1v1 with good players. You will get what you are weakness are. 1vx is garbage other than ap farming and show off.

If you read the existing comments on this thread you can see the obvious flaws in your argument.

HEHE . rofl. I dont see any flaws. I see only self proclaimed people . Let them do max cp vs max cp . Not even 1vx . Just 1v2. Afraid ?

1vx is a joke in this game. All they do is go up and down with expedition buffs. Because its easy one shot lower level players in this game , simply run up and down until one low newbie gets in way. One shot him in 2 seconds. Then start running up and down. If NB cloak and run . Cycle continues. Brag in forums I have done 1vx and I am a pro in this game.

I wont take these people serious , unless that X is a competitive player with max cp. Again if X is competive player of similar level, just 2 will kill him. I know how tough a 1v1 with a player of similar level . 1vX is always depends on who the X are. Not the 1.

Checkmath · April 2018

Disagree

Was chased yesterday by two magplars and a magsorc, all cp capped and even one with 5 stars as alliance rank. God....i fought them in open field and they didnt do much damage, but stunned on cooldown like pros....the magsorc was pretty bad and i would have got him down, if those stupid magplars wouldnt have spammed breath of life, when i got offensive. In the end a fellow man helped me out and we killed them. I had a funny discussion with the cp1000* and 5 stars magplar afterwards, since he kept insulting me and calling me a cheater....

Sylphie · April 2018

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

JXNwarrior wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Almost anyone can do 1vx in this game provided decent skills . Cp 160 vs cp 720 is almost 100 percent effective on cps alone . Dps 50 percent increase . Defense 50 percent increase . Cp 720 player can one shot multiple cp160 players. It's not prove anything other than you are a ok and try to fool others. If you want really become good in PvP play 1v1 with good players. You will get what you are weakness are. 1vx is garbage other than ap farming and show off.

If you read the existing comments on this thread you can see the obvious flaws in your argument.

HEHE . rofl. I dont see any flaws. I see only self proclaimed people . Let them do max cp vs max cp . Not even 1vx . Just 1v2. Afraid ?

1vx is a joke in this game. All they do is go up and down with expedition buffs. Because its easy one shot lower level players in this game , simply run up and down until one low newbie gets in way. One shot him in 2 seconds. Then start running up and down. If NB cloak and run . Cycle continues. Brag in forums I have done 1vx and I am a pro in this game.

I wont take these people serious , unless that X is a competitive player with max cp. Again if X is competive player of similar level, just 2 will kill him. I know how tough a 1v1 with a player of similar level . 1vX is always depends on who the X are. Not the 1.

Yeah because there's no such thing as mag classes that can 1vX right? Major expedition OP.

The entire point of 1vX is facing greater odds and winning by outplaying lesser skilled players. CP does have a factor in it but there are numerous max CP players that run actual pvp builds and still get 1vXed.

pieratsos · April 2018

Disagree

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

JXNwarrior wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Almost anyone can do 1vx in this game provided decent skills . Cp 160 vs cp 720 is almost 100 percent effective on cps alone . Dps 50 percent increase . Defense 50 percent increase . Cp 720 player can one shot multiple cp160 players. It's not prove anything other than you are a ok and try to fool others. If you want really become good in PvP play 1v1 with good players. You will get what you are weakness are. 1vx is garbage other than ap farming and show off.

If you read the existing comments on this thread you can see the obvious flaws in your argument.

HEHE . rofl. I dont see any flaws. I see only self proclaimed people . Let them do max cp vs max cp . Not even 1vx . Just 1v2. Afraid ?

1vx is a joke in this game. All they do is go up and down with expedition buffs. Because its easy one shot lower level players in this game , simply run up and down until one low newbie gets in way. One shot him in 2 seconds. Then start running up and down. If NB cloak and run . Cycle continues. Brag in forums I have done 1vx and I am a pro in this game.

I wont take these people serious , unless that X is a competitive player with max cp. Again if X is competive player of similar level, just 2 will kill him. I know how tough a 1v1 with a player of similar level . 1vX is always depends on who the X are. Not the 1.

Thats because you are looking 1vX in the wrong way. You dont look a player's capabilities of beating scrubs to judge his skill. You look at the way he plays. If he can keep buffs up, sustain, use the environment correctly, adapt to different situations, prioritize targets etc. Thats what you should be looking for in 1vX to judge if the player is skilled or not. Not whether he can smash those potatoes or not.

Duels are different. Duels are a controlled environment in which you can eliminate multiple variables that would indicate player skill cause you can simply build to counter ur opponent. The only exception is the random 1v1 fights you encounter in cyro where people are playing with their open world builds and have to adapt their playstyle on the fly.

WillhelmBlack · April 2018

How to be a Duelist:

Go to duel spot.
Lose a bunch of fights until you find out what sets and CP allocations are completely broken in a 1v1 scenario.
Aquire sets.
Go back to duel spot and stalemate for hours on end.
Go to your factions Undaunted wayshrine and troll PvE'rs to feel good about yourself.

CompM4s · April 2018

Agree

1 max cp highly skilled player vs multiple new players spamming light attacks.

Priyasekarssk · April 2018

Agree

IAVITNI wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

running around obstacles like rocks or in towers is very necessary for 1vX, because its the best mitigation in the game to get out of sight of a lot of players, so you get hurt only from a few enemies. then you can decide if you can counter or not. actually every 1vX players uses obstacles and LOS to mitigate, because an open field battle against multiple enemies is death. 1vX players die to coordinated 4 man groups because a coordinated group attacks simultanious, all four of them with a combo. guess what, nobody can mitigate or outheal a combo from 4 enemy players at the same time, its not possible. so LOSing and running around obstacles is the only way to deal with multiple enemies. it is used to create small time windows, where you can be offensive, where you dont get smashed by 4 enemies at the same time.

People also misunderstand how to properly LoS. Running around a tree is pointless unless you know how to do it. It sounds funny but its true. I can run around a tree for days and get nothing done. If you don't believe me, go pull +4 players to a tree and run around it while trying to kill them.

Unless you cannot one shot low bies in 2 seconds you are not going to achieve anything, everyone can keep running around for ever. Its not rocket science running up and down and circles with major expedition. On equal footing , you will escape or get killed. There is no other way. Almost all 1vX is because of CP difference and gear difference, rather skill difference. For your information, you cannot kill player on your similar level in 2 seconds with same gear & level.

Again 1vX even with skill difference and not gear or CP difference, it will be a prolonged fight. Everyone gets to max CP level, 1vX will get disappeared from this game. You should have noticed, 1vX is becoming harder day by day as new people leveling up. Even quality of videos gone down rapidly over the years as leveling gap become closer. You should be really lucky to get group of preys.

Self proclaimed pros havent noticed it ?

Only organized groups and strong strategies will succeed for long run on equal footings and Solo PVP will become thing of the past as gaps getting closer. A healer and tank make a big difference in the outcome of the battles. Until then enjoy leveling advantage we have.

Irylia · April 2018

Disagree

Wall repairing for 5stars is impressive tbh.
Lothar wolf laid the groundwork for future masons.

ToRelax · April 2018

Disagree

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

running around obstacles like rocks or in towers is very necessary for 1vX, because its the best mitigation in the game to get out of sight of a lot of players, so you get hurt only from a few enemies. then you can decide if you can counter or not. actually every 1vX players uses obstacles and LOS to mitigate, because an open field battle against multiple enemies is death. 1vX players die to coordinated 4 man groups because a coordinated group attacks simultanious, all four of them with a combo. guess what, nobody can mitigate or outheal a combo from 4 enemy players at the same time, its not possible. so LOSing and running around obstacles is the only way to deal with multiple enemies. it is used to create small time windows, where you can be offensive, where you dont get smashed by 4 enemies at the same time.

People also misunderstand how to properly LoS. Running around a tree is pointless unless you know how to do it. It sounds funny but its true. I can run around a tree for days and get nothing done. If you don't believe me, go pull +4 players to a tree and run around it while trying to kill them.

Unless you cannot one shot low bies in 2 seconds you are not going to achieve anything, everyone can keep running around for ever. Its not rocket science running up and down and circles with major expedition. On equal footing , you will escape or get killed. There is no other way. Almost all 1vX is because of CP difference and gear difference, rather skill difference. For your information, you cannot kill player on your similar level in 2 seconds with same gear & level.

Again 1vX even with skill difference and not gear or CP difference, it will be a prolonged fight. Everyone gets to max CP level, 1vX will get disappeared from this game. You should have noticed, 1vX is becoming harder day by day as new people leveling up. Even quality of videos gone down rapidly over the years as leveling gap become closer. You should be really lucky to get group of preys.

Self proclaimed pros havent noticed it ?

Only organized groups and strong strategies will succeed for long run on equal footings and Solo PVP will become thing of the past as gaps getting closer. A healer and tank make a big difference in the outcome of the battles. Until then enjoy leveling advantage we have.

Yes I can burst some max cp player with awesome gear down in an instant. I can also 1vX them. And since I prefer no CP, that's hardly going to change because of more opponents reaching the cap.

In fact, I think skill difference is far more important for a successful 1vX than you realize. It is a lot more difficult to kill several good players on underlevel characters in suboptimal gear than it is to kill several bad max cp players in perfect gear copied from somewhere; likewise it's obviously more likely for an experienced solo player to 1vX successfully on a brand new character than for any player who gets 1vX'd regularly on their regular one.

The funny thing is that this is exactly what some players seem to take an issue with; 1vX requiring most of all a difference in player skill. And you are trying to downplay that part to make the very same point, in the process only giving more credibility to the skill involved in beating players of similar level and gear quality.

Kova · April 2018

I haven't seen a 1vX that involved more than one decent player on the X side since imperial city dropped.

And until players actively choose to gimp themselves and not use cheesy setups for duels I can't say I find most duels impressive either. Even the tournaments are lack luster now, and the guild leaders know it.

You know what I find impressive? The players in non CP not running poisons and proc sets but still wrecking face.

So I can't vote for either, unfortunately.

caeliusstarbreaker · April 2018

Can’t I just say I’m impressed and enjoy watching high levels of play all around?

Prospero_ESO · April 2018

Disagree

Tbh both is not very impressive in ESO, in the end, ESO PvP is about who can utilize the most cheese, nothing i applaud anybody.

Alpheu5 · April 2018

Disagree

Checkmath wrote: »

guess what, nobody can mitigate or outheal a combo from 4 enemy players at the same time, its not possible.

https://youtu.be/Bo9yiJ377TM?t=4m16s

ToRelax · April 2018

Disagree

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

guess what, nobody can mitigate or outheal a combo from 4 enemy players at the same time, its not possible.

https://youtu.be/Bo9yiJ377TM?t=4m16s

I counted 4 Meteors and one Nova before getting healed, then several charges and at least one jabs, some of which was dodged. Had there been an actual combo with other skills, like a timed curse/assassin's will/shalks/backlash it would've been over.

Alpheu5 · April 2018

Disagree

ToRelax wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

guess what, nobody can mitigate or outheal a combo from 4 enemy players at the same time, its not possible.

https://youtu.be/Bo9yiJ377TM?t=4m16s

I counted 4 Meteors and one Nova before getting healed, then several charges and at least one jabs, some of which was dodged. Had there been an actual combo with other skills, like a timed curse/assassin's will/shalks/backlash it would've been over.

Just because it wasn't a by-the-books combo doesn't make it any less devastating. Walking away from an ult nuke that synchronized that far out in the open with a follow-up knockdown isn't something to "meh" at.

I'm pointing out that the statement was flat out wrong.

Checkmath · April 2018

Disagree

He survived the combo by blocking and wasnt focussed anymore afterwards, because they all assumed he to die from it. He got „barely“ damaged after the combo and survived by LOSing and healing up, while only one enemy followed him. But cool that everyone just takes every statement just as its written and doesnt think more about it. Otherwise you would have realized, that i rather was talking about a prolonged fight and not a combo of one second....
Hope you now know what i wanted to say.
Maybe my definition of combo is another of the one you guys use. For me a combo includes guaranteed and huge damage with debuffs. If he would have been targeted by a rune cage too, then he would have died. Thats what i think of when i say combo: guaranteed meteor damage thanks to fossilize or rune cage, a setup of timef damage like deep fissure and dasnbreaker or dawnbreaker the same time backlash from a templar goes off.
Dont want to bait here or anything. This is just my definition of combo and 3 meteors and nova without a stun arent a combo for me. Sry but only explaining what i actually meant with the combo from the previous post.

Thogard · April 2018

Disagree

Checkmath wrote: »

He survived the combo by blocking and wasnt focussed anymore afterwards, because they all assumed he to die from it. He got „barely“ damaged after the combo and survived by LOSing and healing up, while only one enemy followed him. But cool that everyone just takes every statement just as its written and doesnt think more about it. Otherwise you would have realized, that i rather was talking about a prolonged fight and not a combo of one second....
Hope you now know what i wanted to say.
Maybe my definition of combo is another of the one you guys use. For me a combo includes guaranteed and huge damage with debuffs. If he would have been targeted by a rune cage too, then he would have died. Thats what i think of when i say combo: guaranteed meteor damage thanks to fossilize or rune cage, a setup of timef damage like deep fissure and dasnbreaker or dawnbreaker the same time backlash from a templar goes off.
Dont want to bait here or anything. This is just my definition of combo and 3 meteors and nova without a stun arent a combo for me. Sry but only explaining what i actually meant with the combo from the previous post.

Yeah! How dare people take what you say literally and use the plain English interpretation of it!

Checkmath · April 2018

Disagree

damn, those guys should burn in hell for not reading between the lines :P

olsborg · April 2018

Disagree

Waffennacht wrote: »

Because 1v1 is almost certainly a duel, using a build for dueling, impresses me not.

This, its much harder to make a build that works for 1v1 and 1vX, using your character for open world taking on whatever comes at you, 1 guy, 2 guys or just escaping a zerg (maybe even taking a kill before you escape) is where its at. Dueling is dead boring when you've done it for a couple hours.

olesmo · April 2018

Disagree

IMO dueling is alot more boring then open world/bgs. the best and most challenging fight you can have in ESO are open world. run a small coordinated group with setups that benefit each other and the role they have in the group, and the ammount of ppl you can plow trough is simply nerdgazm x]

Some shameless adverticing of my latest Stamina Warden pvp video, containing some clips featuring gameplay like talked about above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H69FCCUDv4&t=527s

IAVITNI · April 2018

Disagree

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

running around obstacles like rocks or in towers is very necessary for 1vX, because its the best mitigation in the game to get out of sight of a lot of players, so you get hurt only from a few enemies. then you can decide if you can counter or not. actually every 1vX players uses obstacles and LOS to mitigate, because an open field battle against multiple enemies is death. 1vX players die to coordinated 4 man groups because a coordinated group attacks simultanious, all four of them with a combo. guess what, nobody can mitigate or outheal a combo from 4 enemy players at the same time, its not possible. so LOSing and running around obstacles is the only way to deal with multiple enemies. it is used to create small time windows, where you can be offensive, where you dont get smashed by 4 enemies at the same time.

People also misunderstand how to properly LoS. Running around a tree is pointless unless you know how to do it. It sounds funny but its true. I can run around a tree for days and get nothing done. If you don't believe me, go pull +4 players to a tree and run around it while trying to kill them.

Unless you cannot one shot low bies in 2 seconds you are not going to achieve anything, everyone can keep running around for ever. Its not rocket science running up and down and circles with major expedition. On equal footing , you will escape or get killed. There is no other way. Almost all 1vX is because of CP difference and gear difference, rather skill difference. For your information, you cannot kill player on your similar level in 2 seconds with same gear & level.

Again 1vX even with skill difference and not gear or CP difference, it will be a prolonged fight. Everyone gets to max CP level, 1vX will get disappeared from this game. You should have noticed, 1vX is becoming harder day by day as new people leveling up. Even quality of videos gone down rapidly over the years as leveling gap become closer. You should be really lucky to get group of preys.

Self proclaimed pros havent noticed it ?

Only organized groups and strong strategies will succeed for long run on equal footings and Solo PVP will become thing of the past as gaps getting closer. A healer and tank make a big difference in the outcome of the battles. Until then enjoy leveling advantage we have.

First off, bursting low bies in 2 seconds is a common occurrence and is not what I or most other solo players consider a 1vx. I've gotten countless 3-5 kills within 4 minutes etc. but that's not what I consider a 1vx. An actual 1vx is having +3 players applying constant pressure, and an impressive 1vx is one where the opponents can do at least basic burst combos and maintain heals.

In any 1vx, the solo player is punished much more significantly for any mistake, meaning their gameplay must be much closer to flawless in the same respect that dueling an equally skilled opponent requires near flawless gameplay. Yes, you can recover from some minor mistakes, but for the most part make a single mistake and you either die or come in extremely disadvantaged.

Now, I have x'd on players that have beat me 1v1. The biggest factor is discipline. How long can you keep up rotations/LoS without making a mistake and how patient are you in waiting for the right offensive window. It's not JUST running around LoS or JUST bursting a low bie.

If it's so easy, post some x clips. The popular clips are so much more than just running around trees 1-timing potatoes.