Templars need reform because the game has changed

IV_Deity · April 2018

Drdeath20 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

A thought on Repentance.

Suppose:
The AoE heal was once per corpse.

The stamina gain was once per templar.

This would solve the worst of the current problems with the skill, without introducing obvious new ones.

Would that suffice to make the skill good and fun again?

No. Still a skill with no active effects and is more of a passive that has to be slotted

The skill should do something else, and the passive buffs from it should be incorporated into our class passives. This way, we could choose to run something else or run this skill if need be.

While I'm here, I might as well say this...sweeps/jabs should be 0.2 - 0.3 seconds shorter to keep up with how movement is essential in today's eso.

Minno · April 2018

Checkmath wrote: »

I also suggested to rather go block with stamina looking at his video, but if he says his magicka sustain is fine with ele and situational block, than this is up to him. Maybe he should rather break free from eclypse instead of cleansing it...
I mostly run with 14.5k stamina and have sword and shield on backbar. I feel like i can block forever with that...without any sturdy.

Yea it's only terrible on Templars where I'm overpurging instead of breaking free. I'm too used to fighting DKs and NBs who are pressuring my stamina hard, so having that situational block with mag is useful (both of whom can't purge drain).

Thanks @Cinbri and @Checkmath ! Check out my other videos if you want to comment

Minno · April 2018

danno8 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Jabs and sweeps are more than 5% pathetic right now. Been switching back and forth between magicka and stam this weekend, and wound up just going stam and practicing landing dizzying swing. Seems so much better.

Just so we can get a freakshow going, here's a cannibal 1v1 vid between 2 magplars! Just look at those sexy turtle sweeps!
https://youtu.be/YE6y3Z-GfAc

Two templars fighting is one of the most painful things to witness and participate in ESO. Another thing that bothers me about templars is that we kind of have to build to have a large stamina pools and then you have fights like this where it's just going to waste.

@danno8

Not just Summerset Island, but weaving has been crucial to the game basically since the 1.6 patch. Channels and cast-times are already incredibly disruptive and already represented DPS loss for using them. So, yes, you are correct in that it's going to continue to get worse and meanwhile our key skills like Dark Flare, RD, Solar Barrage continues to have this awful mechanic associated with them and ZOS is like, "Oh, wait, your DPS is bad? Well, yep, channeled attacks are perfectly fine!"

Should note here, the new tooltips for the psjic abilities with channels state (and i quote) "hold this button to maintain the spell, release the button to end it". Is this the new direction for channels? The risk being you have to hold the ability in place ? the reward being a passive defensive buff with large drains/stats boosted?

Granted that's for the new abilities. I wonder if this means templars are going to lose all their channels, or have some updated with this mechanic in mind. And need to test on PTS; assuming those represent the future of channels.

Edit: Also, maybe we should keep a list of pain points? Right now we have a few good ones flying around.

I hope that's not how channels go to be honest. I need all my fingers to maneuver my character and having one tied down to a key for the duration is just a bad idea.

If it's for skills like the "Go backwards 4 seconds" one, then it makes sense since you are not going to be attacking while it works it's magic.

I do agree. It's going to make current channels more annoying and if they are going to spend time redeveloping these, why not make them instant cast instead?

I think it's just for the new line.

Minno · April 2018

Cinbri wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

thaum doesnt buff pury or potl.
since the damage itself has no over time value.

ty, checkmath... @Cinbri in this case I would rather disagree with stamplars beeing a dot heavy class.

But bleeds, poisons, dot ticks of blade cloak along with class spammable(which is currently bad anyway)...
P.S.: I don't know from where this myth came that 1st tick of sweeps/jabs is direct attack. It is not, all 4 ticks are dots that boosted by dot cp and none of it boost by direct damage cp; it cant proc sets that proc from direct damage. But I can assume that since myth created since CWC update - people started to think that first tick is direct damage coz it proc Eclipse, forgetting that in middle pts Eclipse was made to proc on 1st tick of any DoT.

All jabs is dot, but burning light is direct. So you can say you need both direct/dot CP boosts to be an effective Templar.

Same goes for unstable core, the DMG at the end is boosted by direct CP while the defensive portion is boosted by dot. So weird and even weirder in that fire staff boosts unstable core DMG since it's a direct target ability.

Makes it clunky to think of Templar builds versus other classes who have a monopoly on direct DMG boosts.

DeadlyRecluse · April 2018

I assume the new channel mechanic is just for the new line--I think it's because those channels don't have fixed durations. You can Meditate to eternity if you want to.

I would assume that if that mechanic were carried over to jabs, you'd be able to just hold a key and jabs forever (with intermittent magicka cost), which would be...funny but terrible.

Minno · April 2018

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

I assume the new channel mechanic is just for the new line--I think it's because those channels don't have fixed durations. You can Meditate to eternity if you want to.

I would assume that if that mechanic were carried over to jabs, you'd be able to just hold a key and jabs forever (with intermittent magicka cost), which would be...funny but terrible.

I think that type of channel will be interesting for defensive/utility bases abilities. Get a high reward for holding it down but high risk for combat use.

Similar to block costs while you hold it down, you'll s survive burst but drain resorces fast.

But with DMG abilities? Not exciting.

Checkmath · April 2018

wouldnt want that too on jabs, its enough on jesus beam and soul assault, both skills provide a little time window to rest your fingers

@Minno , if i should take a look at your other videos, post it here then, so i dont have to search through whole youtube

Minno · April 2018

Checkmath wrote: »

wouldnt want that too on jabs, its enough on jesus beam and soul assault, both skills provide a little time window to rest your fingers
@Minno , if i should take a look at your other videos, post it here then, so i dont have to search through whole youtube

Here ya go! Some were experimental tests, mostly BGs, and some pug trashing that happened to be worse than me (I'm not the most leet player lol).

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ4IVqpqKHIMaXdEz3L6sbA

Cinbri · April 2018

Is it only me feel weird that passive called Restoring Spirit is located in offensive tree instead of defensive tree called Restoring Light?

Checkmath · April 2018

Cinbri wrote: »

Is it only me feel weird that passive called Restoring Spirit is located in offensive tree instead of defensive tree called Restoring Light?

Sounds fishy....
But we know, how outdated the passives are...at least their names.

Minno · April 2018

Checkmath wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Is it only me feel weird that passive called Restoring Spirit is located in offensive tree instead of defensive tree called Restoring Light?

Sounds fishy....
But we know, how outdated the passives are...at least their names.

Even more fishy, it stopped giving mag back on ability casts as a passive before it hit live

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2018

Stam Morphs/Supplemental morphs:
DK:

Cinbri wrote: »

Is it only me feel weird that passive called Restoring Spirit is located in offensive tree instead of defensive tree called Restoring Light?

I think that's the passive that use to be the huge regen that nightblade/sorc eventually got. Interestingly the +weapon damage passive Balanced Warrior kinda got handed out like candy to Sorc and Warden as well. Nothing that made Templar unique is unique any more and Templar really hasn't been given anything to replace it in my view. I want Templar to feel like a warrior. Frankly I want it more DK-like in style. They're Knights just less evil looking.

Cinbri · April 2018

danno8 wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

i thought jabs proc selenes, at least that was what i felt, when playing my stamplar. selenes only proc from direct damage, right? not sure about this, but i had the feeling, that the selene proc came from jabs. maybe it cant proc anymore from it, the last time i player stamplar is some months ago....
or was the selene proc based by melee damage and not direct damage?
ok just checked it, selene procs from direct melee damage. now that leaves my feeling about jabs proccing it unexplained....maybe imagination.

There was old thread somewhere people talking how selene proc differently from skills. On some skills it proc on direct attack, on others - from dot attack. It seems this set is very bugy.

It's probably proccing from Burning Light. That's probably why people think it is proccing from Jabs.

Jabs/Sweeps is a DoT through and through.

I tested it without Burning Light - Selene still proc on Jabs. So messy..

Minno · April 2018

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Stam Morphs/Supplemental morphs:
DK:

Cinbri wrote: »

Is it only me feel weird that passive called Restoring Spirit is located in offensive tree instead of defensive tree called Restoring Light?

I think that's the passive that use to be the huge regen that nightblade/sorc eventually got. Interestingly the +weapon damage passive Balanced Warrior kinda got handed out like candy to Sorc and Warden as well. Nothing that made Templar unique is unique any more and Templar really hasn't been given anything to replace it in my view. I want Templar to feel like a warrior. Frankly I want it more DK-like in style. They're Knights just less evil looking.

What's annoying, is that we are called Templars but none of our current kit let's us sustain/defend while also messing up people up close.

They also don't historically give buffs or boost healing; we aren't called clerics lol. So it's weird. They can cast protective spells and defenses against evil but healing isn't his job.

But here we are, Templar that can heal and grant resources in battle but can't defend nor cast protection spells. Weird.

Nelson_Rebel · April 2018

I do think templar deserves some adjustmemts to it's skill use.

But on the receiving end of Jabs from Templars I can verifiably say that Damn thing hits hard if a templar is able to use it consistently on 1 target.

They did give it a 5% buff and an increase in it's AOE range.

So I say no more buffs to this skill in the damage part, but it definitley needs a couple animation tweaks because it feels like the skill does indeed miss hitting me occasionaly in lag intensive fights when I'm definitely in it's range.

The ultimates need to be looked at as well

• Aedric spear ultimate is pretty weak, and I dont think I've ever been killed by it. Legit, like ever. lol buff it

• Fragment of the sun needs more PvE group
synergy as that was the main purpose of this skill. I think it actually works great in trials, but it needs its cost lowered to actually be considered useful in trials and add a damage buff for allies in its AOE to be somewhat competitive rather than all healers running warhorn.

Other than that. I love my Templar toons

Checkmath · April 2018

makes more sense than a dragonknight healing.....
but yeah, we are lacking unique passives and still everyone feels like templars are OP. there is a thread about tank meta and somebody stated, that templars are far superior than other classes....
i just cant believe it, that we dont actually have a designed play style, we should play around and everyone sees templars just as healbots, not more. we used to be much more and its time to get some stuff back of our glory days. otherwise nobody will see, that we are more than just what they see in the templar class.
gosh, getting halfway sentimental after some beers.....

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2018

Minno wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Stam Morphs/Supplemental morphs:
DK:

Cinbri wrote: »

Is it only me feel weird that passive called Restoring Spirit is located in offensive tree instead of defensive tree called Restoring Light?

I think that's the passive that use to be the huge regen that nightblade/sorc eventually got. Interestingly the +weapon damage passive Balanced Warrior kinda got handed out like candy to Sorc and Warden as well. Nothing that made Templar unique is unique any more and Templar really hasn't been given anything to replace it in my view. I want Templar to feel like a warrior. Frankly I want it more DK-like in style. They're Knights just less evil looking.

What's annoying, is that we are called Templars but none of our current kit let's us sustain/defend while also messing up people up close.

They also don't historically give buffs or boost healing; we aren't called clerics lol. So it's weird. They can cast protective spells and defenses against evil but healing isn't his job.

But here we are, Templar that can heal and grant resources in battle but can't defend nor cast protection spells. Weird.

Woops I just noticed that beginning part. Didn't realize that was there. That was part of a comparative analysis I was going to do regarding stamina morphs/builds between the classes. I wanted to show that DK, Templar and Sorc get shortchanged. If I had my way the Whip would have a Stamina Morph, Sorcerers would have a Bound Weapon attack morph instead of the stupid crystal aoe, and Templars would have a stamina charge.

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2018

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

I do think templar deserves some adjustmemts to it's skill use.

But on the receiving end of Jabs from Templars I can verifiably say that Damn thing hits hard if a templar is able to use it consistently on 1 target.

They did give it a 5% buff and an increase in it's AOE range.

So I say no more buffs to this skill in the damage part, but it definitley needs a couple animation tweaks because it feels like the skill does indeed miss hitting me occasionaly in lag intensive fights when I'm definitely in it's range.

The ultimates need to be looked at as well

• Aedric spear ultimate is pretty weak, and I dont think I've ever been killed by it. Legit, like ever. lol buff it

• Fragment of the sun needs more PvE group
synergy as that was the main purpose of this skill. I think it actually works great in trials, but it needs its cost lowered to actually be considered useful in trials and add a damage buff for allies in its AOE to be somewhat competitive rather than all healers running warhorn.

Other than that. I love my Templar toons

I'm finding that while Jabs is great if your enemy decides not to move against a living breathing target who is halfway decent you are lucky to get 2 of the 4 hits off. It slows you down and more or less locks your position while giving your enemy far greater maneuverability. Jabs either should snare, have greater range, or hit harder in my view. I don't care which way they go with it but for the Stamplar it deserves this. At least magplar has a wider toolkit in this regard and is more range oriented. The Crusader side of things needs some playability love. Granted I think magplar needs love too. Its the way the class feels when you play it that pisses me off. By the way as much as I love hitting people with jabs I think just pulling out your DW or 2hander skills are often better. Many people slot jabs purely to access half their damn passives.

Minno · April 2018

Checkmath wrote: »

makes more sense than a dragonknight healing.....
but yeah, we are lacking unique passives and still everyone feels like templars are OP. there is a thread about tank meta and somebody stated, that templars are far superior than other classes....
i just cant believe it, that we dont actually have a designed play style, we should play around and everyone sees templars just as healbots, not more. we used to be much more and its time to get some stuff back of our glory days. otherwise nobody will see, that we are more than just what they see in the templar class.
gosh, getting halfway sentimental after some beers.....

Yea the Templar name and dk names are limiting to the imagination of others. The class names should have been a little generic, or at least fully lore specific, with full magic schools, weapons, etc.

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2018

Checkmath wrote: »

makes more sense than a dragonknight healing.....
but yeah, we are lacking unique passives and still everyone feels like templars are OP. there is a thread about tank meta and somebody stated, that templars are far superior than other classes....
i just cant believe it, that we dont actually have a designed play style, we should play around and everyone sees templars just as healbots, not more. we used to be much more and its time to get some stuff back of our glory days. otherwise nobody will see, that we are more than just what they see in the templar class.
gosh, getting halfway sentimental after some beers.....

Exactly. I'm tired of being pigeonholed. Templars are good as tanks but their flaw is in the CC department which has been slowly stripped since year 1. The CC toolkit needs to be opened up a bit in general so other classes can Tank than DK and Warden. Functionally you can tank with any class now in MOST instances but the ability to chain pull and talon is just too good and EVERYONE knows it that plays Tank.

PapaWeeb · April 2018

There's a lot of good points you've made here @Joy_Division

Some thoughts about (mostly mag)templars off the top of my head, stuff I'd maybe like to see:

Eclipse morphs' effectiveness to be reduced but have them not interacting with cc immunity. You're right, it's either feast or famine. When it works it really, really works and is too strong in my opinion. I play both DKs, too, and getting hit with an eclipse while you have spiked armour up is a death sentence with multiple people beating on you. All that reflected damage procs total dark and you insta-melt if you can't cc break immediately. Conversely, trying to cast it on an enemy who's just popped an immovable or been stunned and you stand there like an idiot doing nothing, wondering if it's lag. Such a waste when you put it on someone only for them to break from a dawnbreaker a second after and waste that cast of yours. Making the skill cast like any other dot (albeit with value reduction) would be welcome to me
Rune's duration really is too small, unless they want to improve Templar's "house" so it doesn't hurt so much to camp inside it. If you have to be mobile in a fight (Ever been outnumbered in Cyro? Every 2 minutes you say?) then you're using a global cooldown every 6 or 7 seconds, potentially having to barswap twice and eating up a good portion of the bonus magicka by re-casting it. All that micro management just to keep up major resistances gives the enemy lots of openings to start beating on you
Javelin + charge's clunkiness to be changed. Your most reliable cc skill also knocks enemies out of your spammable's range, and if you're snared it's extremely difficult to follow up on that stun. You might even be helping enemies escape (lol). Your other stun, charge, doesn't work close up like you said. It's also slow, easy to dodge and has a really clunky impact that seems to bug out a lot. Being snared while an opponent gets up in your face (which is supposed to be to your benefit, right? Templars have houses apparently) and circles you makes it impossible to land this skill, the awkward shuffle backwards makes you a sitting duck. Perhaps synergy between javelin and charge could work? E.g. a damage bonus or some other buff/debuff when following up a javelin with a charge
Radial sweep. Let's compare it to another (cheaper) ultimate like, say, incap shudders. Its targeting is finicky, it often misses if I'm standing on a small pebble and they're not. Does meh burst damage with some sustained damage after that (provided you don't knock them out of range with javelin, the ult has tiny radius). Incap on the other hand stuns, deals damage all at once, major defiles and gives a massive damage bonus to the caster. I've not changed my ultimate from dawnbreaker since putting it on my bar
Sweeps is hard to land on moving targets, if you're snared and the enemy is competent you won't hit them with it. It also still seems bugged for me, I'll often get the strange pauses after casting it while the world moves around me and I'm doing nothing, only for me to spazz out with delayed sweeps a second or two later
Radiant is super underwhelming, no where near as decisive as executioner etc. and it just lets the enemy get further away, seeing as you move so slowly whilst casting it. It often only secures the kill when the enemy is at 5-10% and by then what's the point, backlash popping gets me more kills
Repentance corpses should be independent for each templar, fighting over bodies when it doesn't give stam to everyone makes no sense, and the aura morph totally blows compared to how much ele drain does in comparison

A lot more can be said about problems with the class. Not to say all classes don't have their problems, and someone who mains each of the other classes could definitely write out a long post like yours detailing the annoying stuff that comes with playing it (which I'd give a good read too, so go write them!

)

Edited to fix 12am spelling

Ron_Burgundy_79 · April 2018

The viability of the templar class in solo PvP rested on the fulcrum that was the blazing spear cc. The old blazing spear cc allowed Templars to seamlessly transition from defense to offense. It made the skills flow together. The class played so smoothly at that point.

Now the class feels like a clunky heap of skills thrown together with no real vision.

DisgracefulMind · April 2018

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

The viability of the templar class in solo PvP rested on the fulcrum that was the blazing spear cc. The old blazing spear cc allowed Templars to seamlessly transition from defense to offense. It made the skills flow together. The class played so smoothly at that point.

Now the class feels like a clunky heap of skills thrown together with no real vision.

Yup. As I said in my post, if we were to get a CC back on one of those morphs, it would do tons to help Magicka Templar once more.

danno8 · April 2018

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Stam Morphs/Supplemental morphs:
DK:

Cinbri wrote: »

Is it only me feel weird that passive called Restoring Spirit is located in offensive tree instead of defensive tree called Restoring Light?

I think that's the passive that use to be the huge regen that nightblade/sorc eventually got. Interestingly the +weapon damage passive Balanced Warrior kinda got handed out like candy to Sorc and Warden as well. Nothing that made Templar unique is unique any more and Templar really hasn't been given anything to replace it in my view. I want Templar to feel like a warrior. Frankly I want it more DK-like in style. They're Knights just less evil looking.

NB's also got Super Repentance 2.0 (Executioner passive) about a year or so ago, right about when Repentance got the nerf hammer.

Solariken · April 2018

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

The viability of the templar class in solo PvP rested on the fulcrum that was the blazing spear cc. The old blazing spear cc allowed Templars to seamlessly transition from defense to offense. It made the skills flow together. The class played so smoothly at that point.

Now the class feels like a clunky heap of skills thrown together with no real vision.

I think we all miss that CC, but I'm sure we also remember how downright savage that CC was in a proper combo and how disgustingly well it synergized with the misty blockplar build type. There really wasn't any counterplay to that and they kind of nipped it in the bud before it got overwhelmingly popular.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2018

danno8 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Stam Morphs/Supplemental morphs:
DK:

Cinbri wrote: »

Is it only me feel weird that passive called Restoring Spirit is located in offensive tree instead of defensive tree called Restoring Light?

I think that's the passive that use to be the huge regen that nightblade/sorc eventually got. Interestingly the +weapon damage passive Balanced Warrior kinda got handed out like candy to Sorc and Warden as well. Nothing that made Templar unique is unique any more and Templar really hasn't been given anything to replace it in my view. I want Templar to feel like a warrior. Frankly I want it more DK-like in style. They're Knights just less evil looking.

NB's also got Super Repentance 2.0 (Executioner passive) about a year or so ago, right about when Repentance got the nerf hammer.

@aeowulf

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2018

Solariken wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

The viability of the templar class in solo PvP rested on the fulcrum that was the blazing spear cc. The old blazing spear cc allowed Templars to seamlessly transition from defense to offense. It made the skills flow together. The class played so smoothly at that point.

Now the class feels like a clunky heap of skills thrown together with no real vision.

I think we all miss that CC, but I'm sure we also remember how downright savage that CC was in a proper combo and how disgustingly well it synergized with the misty blockplar build type. There really wasn't any counterplay to that and they kind of nipped it in the bud before it got overwhelmingly popular.

It was even worse early on when there was no cc immunity and you could just lock someone down and Spear them to death.

aeowulf · April 2018

danno8 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Stam Morphs/Supplemental morphs:
DK:

Cinbri wrote: »

Is it only me feel weird that passive called Restoring Spirit is located in offensive tree instead of defensive tree called Restoring Light?

I think that's the passive that use to be the huge regen that nightblade/sorc eventually got. Interestingly the +weapon damage passive Balanced Warrior kinda got handed out like candy to Sorc and Warden as well. Nothing that made Templar unique is unique any more and Templar really hasn't been given anything to replace it in my view. I want Templar to feel like a warrior. Frankly I want it more DK-like in style. They're Knights just less evil looking.

NB's also got Super Repentance 2.0 (Executioner passive) about a year or so ago, right about when Repentance got the nerf hammer.

@danno8 & @dodgehopper_ESO

Re "NB's also got Super Repentance 2.0"

Where??? I missed that memo... Oh, and don't read the tooltip. My lowdown between the two skills (apologies if i missed something)

1)Both require a corpse, this is bad news in the first place. Corpse often means the fight's over. Not many bosses with a lot of adds, and it's these fights where resource management is more important.
2)Repentence requires 2 skill points & 1 slot vs executioner requiring 3-4 skill points and one slot (for the skill to proc it)
3)Repentence also provides regen assistance, but this sucks as I believe it's only active on one bar? (needs to be active all the time)
4)Executioner requires perfect timing in a 2 second window vs Repentence where you can choose when to harvest
5)Executioner requires a skill cast that COSTS MORE than it restores
6)Executioner <used> to have the same limitation of one person would get the resources, Repentence REALLY needs to have a 'if a corpse in x radius is repented, you also get the resources - and not require that one to be double barred.
7)Executioner requires a 'passive' slot

And here's the kicker:
8)When ZOS changed it a year ago they broke it, and it now DOES NOT RETURN RESOURCES if you land the killing blow, and landing those 45k+ executes is what stamblades do a lot of in the last 2 seconds of a fight... Chances of getting the killing blow is pretty high.

Both skills suck in their own ways, BUT NB get siphoning which is awesome, unless you play a tankblade where it is the least friendly skill ever. Could be resolved by also procing on taking damage (with cooldown).

My view is stamplar/tankplar/tankblade need help in sustain, as they are WAY out of line with other class/role combinations, except maybe magDK. Be it through revisiting (or fixing) current skills & passives. Repentence is kinda cool though - am scared it would loose that if touched by ZoS

Things like regen boosts, don't help when blocking. ZoS don't see this, or at least don't appear to when it comes to balance.

My other view is Argonians, which have better sustain than most classes! Answer to stamplars/tankplars/tankblades should not be 'play an Argonian' to fix your sustain but it is, kinda

I'm not saying they cannot be played, but to do so requires a ton of experience, perfect gear, a boat load of CP and probably a specific racial choice. They are not viable for new players in the slightest.

Everyone needs to stop being selfish and look at the bigger picture. Look at who you group with & their class/role combos. Start shouting for the DK healers (and other class/roles combos) because you never see them in vet finder - this is a fairly good indication of what's good and what isn't. A group with only a templar healer, dk tank, a stamblade and mag sorc is ok, until it's the 6th one in a row - gets boring.

Ron_Burgundy_79 · April 2018

Solariken wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

The viability of the templar class in solo PvP rested on the fulcrum that was the blazing spear cc. The old blazing spear cc allowed Templars to seamlessly transition from defense to offense. It made the skills flow together. The class played so smoothly at that point.

Now the class feels like a clunky heap of skills thrown together with no real vision.

I think we all miss that CC, but I'm sure we also remember how downright savage that CC was in a proper combo and how disgustingly well it synergized with the misty blockplar build type. There really wasn't any counterplay to that and they kind of nipped it in the bud before it got overwhelmingly popular.

The counters were block the cc or step out of the aoe before it hit the ground. Not exactly the most difficult things to do.

danno8 · April 2018

@aeowulf

If it's broke then that sucks, but even given all your points (I don't think the skill point one is really an issue, and using a skill to proc it hardly matters when you are using those skills anyway) I would trade Repentance for that passive any day.

Would you trade them if you had the chance?