Knowledge wrote: »

Night_Watch wrote: »

Well! I've had a nice night out at the theatre watching a Meatloaf tribute act. It was great fun.

Not having the energy to go in game and do the 'anniversary grind'* I thought I'd watch a few old episodes of the X-Files and browse our wonderful ESO forums. I've got no further than this thread - and ran out of popcorn at the theatre.

I understand that game performance (ESO in this instnace) relies on a plethora of conditions relating to and including computer specifications, home network, line / route between home and ISP, wider internet or world wide web concerns and game provider servers to name but a few. Even the local weather can throw the best connexion into disarray!

I also understand that having higher spefification equipment can, not always, improve network or computer performance. I also know that simply stating 'buy better stuff' or 'it's never the game provider at fault' is, at best, not the ... erm ... best! There is also the fact that stating 'just get a new CPU or GPU' will not only be unhelpful but prove very expensive to those with lower budgets as improving on either could mean having to upgrarde other key components such as a PSU to handle added power requirements or a new motherboard to actually fit the new CPU to.

Anyone insisting that it is always a user end or supplier end problem is simply not helping matters. Sometimes user end issues can be fixed but there will still be problems and sometimes supplier end issues can be fixed and there will still be problems. Sometimes it is both user end and supplier end issues together that cause problems. Believe it or not, sometimes it is neither user end or supplier end that is at fault! There are many things between user and supplier that can cause major problems. One thing comes to mind on this; I was playing some mmo some years ago and the server was based in the US (I'm in the UK). There was a massive issue at an internet exchange point (Frankfurt if memory serves) that caused huge problems for all internet users in related regions.

Though I have studied computing (general) to one step below degree level and capably built and maintained many PC's and networks, I did not specialise. This means that my general knowledge about computers is quite good but I recognize that I'm simply not as well informed as others in this thread. That is just how it is.

As threads go, this one is not the most toxic. This thread is not the most friendly either. There are good points made in this thread and very good information given - in some posts. There's also some not so good information here. It's just a shame that the main participants in this thread seem unable or unwilling to come to some agreement and provide information that is actually helpful to the rest of us. Maybe some real good could come from this thread. Maybe the main participants can bang their heads together, cooperate, in private chat and construct a new, informative, accurate and useful thread. Maybe that thread could be 'stickied'. Maybe I'm asking too much. Let's just stop pointing fingers and squabbling like children in a playground.

I'll continue reading the thread at my leisure - if I can find more popcorn or, frankly, be bothered. As it is the thread seems less than useful to the average user.



* 'anniversary grind' - some sort of new dance?

You've made some important points in your post. Please remember, I am suggesting hardware for users that otherwise have limited experience with PCs or don't understand the difference between lag and performance problems.

There are quite a few people I've encountered here on the forums as well as in the game that don't understand the difference and try to play the game on very low end hardware. Some of these users, given their lack of understanding, then jump on the bandwagon of blaming ZeniMax for their performance problems.

My original post was only intended to help people that may not understand that their computer hardware could be older or not good enough for the game. I am by no means saying server problems don't happen, that it's always the end-user, or that it's always the ISP at fault. However, a good amount of people do have better experiences in the game with higher end hardware. Some have reported limited-to-no-lag.

This was not a guide on how to build a computer but only a suggestion on what parts would be needed, in my opinion, to rule out poor system performance. If someone needs a guide on how to build a PC I suggest buildapc on reddit. I don't want to be responsible for any issues people have while building and therefore I am not going to explain the process on this forum.

[snip]

Knowledge wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Night_Watch wrote: »

Well! I've had a nice night out at the theatre watching a Meatloaf tribute act. It was great fun.

Not having the energy to go in game and do the 'anniversary grind'* I thought I'd watch a few old episodes of the X-Files and browse our wonderful ESO forums. I've got no further than this thread - and ran out of popcorn at the theatre.

I understand that game performance (ESO in this instnace) relies on a plethora of conditions relating to and including computer specifications, home network, line / route between home and ISP, wider internet or world wide web concerns and game provider servers to name but a few. Even the local weather can throw the best connexion into disarray!

I also understand that having higher spefification equipment can, not always, improve network or computer performance. I also know that simply stating 'buy better stuff' or 'it's never the game provider at fault' is, at best, not the ... erm ... best! There is also the fact that stating 'just get a new CPU or GPU' will not only be unhelpful but prove very expensive to those with lower budgets as improving on either could mean having to upgrarde other key components such as a PSU to handle added power requirements or a new motherboard to actually fit the new CPU to.

Anyone insisting that it is always a user end or supplier end problem is simply not helping matters. Sometimes user end issues can be fixed but there will still be problems and sometimes supplier end issues can be fixed and there will still be problems. Sometimes it is both user end and supplier end issues together that cause problems. Believe it or not, sometimes it is neither user end or supplier end that is at fault! There are many things between user and supplier that can cause major problems. One thing comes to mind on this; I was playing some mmo some years ago and the server was based in the US (I'm in the UK). There was a massive issue at an internet exchange point (Frankfurt if memory serves) that caused huge problems for all internet users in related regions.

Though I have studied computing (general) to one step below degree level and capably built and maintained many PC's and networks, I did not specialise. This means that my general knowledge about computers is quite good but I recognize that I'm simply not as well informed as others in this thread. That is just how it is.

As threads go, this one is not the most toxic. This thread is not the most friendly either. There are good points made in this thread and very good information given - in some posts. There's also some not so good information here. It's just a shame that the main participants in this thread seem unable or unwilling to come to some agreement and provide information that is actually helpful to the rest of us. Maybe some real good could come from this thread. Maybe the main participants can bang their heads together, cooperate, in private chat and construct a new, informative, accurate and useful thread. Maybe that thread could be 'stickied'. Maybe I'm asking too much. Let's just stop pointing fingers and squabbling like children in a playground.

I'll continue reading the thread at my leisure - if I can find more popcorn or, frankly, be bothered. As it is the thread seems less than useful to the average user.



* 'anniversary grind' - some sort of new dance?

You've made some important points in your post. Please remember, I am suggesting hardware for users that otherwise have limited experience with PCs or don't understand the difference between lag and performance problems.

There are quite a few people I've encountered here on the forums as well as in the game that don't understand the difference and try to play the game on very low end hardware. Some of these users, given their lack of understanding, then jump on the bandwagon of blaming ZeniMax for their performance problems.

My original post was only intended to help people that may not understand that their computer hardware could be older or not good enough for the game. I am by no means saying server problems don't happen, that it's always the end-user, or that it's always the ISP at fault. However, a good amount of people do have better experiences in the game with higher end hardware. Some have reported limited-to-no-lag.

This was not a guide on how to build a computer but only a suggestion on what parts would be needed, in my opinion, to rule out poor system performance. If someone needs a guide on how to build a PC I suggest buildapc on reddit. I don't want to be responsible for any issues people have while building and therefore I am not going to explain the process on this forum.

As far as getting along with people to make helpful suggestions I've offered to befriend IndyWendieGo and she declined my friendship. I thought that extending him/her an olive branch first would be advantageous to becoming Thogard's friend as they seem to be in league together. But I will not tolerate offensive comments or bullying. I am willing to let the bullying go if they want to agree to be peaceful but I have been attacked and also my olive branch was rejected by Thogard's friend IndyWendieGo.

not attacking you. Just your information.

You still are trying to tell people that a slow CPU can cause latency. That is not true.

Because of what you're writing, some people may be inclined to buy something they do not need. That is not OK, and you seem to have expressed no remorse for that.

Can you please list what you would suggest for components to play ESO?

Say I am a person looking to buy or build a PC. What do you feel I would need?

Thogard wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Night_Watch wrote: »

Well! I've had a nice night out at the theatre watching a Meatloaf tribute act. It was great fun.

Not having the energy to go in game and do the 'anniversary grind'* I thought I'd watch a few old episodes of the X-Files and browse our wonderful ESO forums. I've got no further than this thread - and ran out of popcorn at the theatre.

I understand that game performance (ESO in this instnace) relies on a plethora of conditions relating to and including computer specifications, home network, line / route between home and ISP, wider internet or world wide web concerns and game provider servers to name but a few. Even the local weather can throw the best connexion into disarray!

I also understand that having higher spefification equipment can, not always, improve network or computer performance. I also know that simply stating 'buy better stuff' or 'it's never the game provider at fault' is, at best, not the ... erm ... best! There is also the fact that stating 'just get a new CPU or GPU' will not only be unhelpful but prove very expensive to those with lower budgets as improving on either could mean having to upgrarde other key components such as a PSU to handle added power requirements or a new motherboard to actually fit the new CPU to.

Anyone insisting that it is always a user end or supplier end problem is simply not helping matters. Sometimes user end issues can be fixed but there will still be problems and sometimes supplier end issues can be fixed and there will still be problems. Sometimes it is both user end and supplier end issues together that cause problems. Believe it or not, sometimes it is neither user end or supplier end that is at fault! There are many things between user and supplier that can cause major problems. One thing comes to mind on this; I was playing some mmo some years ago and the server was based in the US (I'm in the UK). There was a massive issue at an internet exchange point (Frankfurt if memory serves) that caused huge problems for all internet users in related regions.

Though I have studied computing (general) to one step below degree level and capably built and maintained many PC's and networks, I did not specialise. This means that my general knowledge about computers is quite good but I recognize that I'm simply not as well informed as others in this thread. That is just how it is.

As threads go, this one is not the most toxic. This thread is not the most friendly either. There are good points made in this thread and very good information given - in some posts. There's also some not so good information here. It's just a shame that the main participants in this thread seem unable or unwilling to come to some agreement and provide information that is actually helpful to the rest of us. Maybe some real good could come from this thread. Maybe the main participants can bang their heads together, cooperate, in private chat and construct a new, informative, accurate and useful thread. Maybe that thread could be 'stickied'. Maybe I'm asking too much. Let's just stop pointing fingers and squabbling like children in a playground.

I'll continue reading the thread at my leisure - if I can find more popcorn or, frankly, be bothered. As it is the thread seems less than useful to the average user.



* 'anniversary grind' - some sort of new dance?

You've made some important points in your post. Please remember, I am suggesting hardware for users that otherwise have limited experience with PCs or don't understand the difference between lag and performance problems.

There are quite a few people I've encountered here on the forums as well as in the game that don't understand the difference and try to play the game on very low end hardware. Some of these users, given their lack of understanding, then jump on the bandwagon of blaming ZeniMax for their performance problems.

My original post was only intended to help people that may not understand that their computer hardware could be older or not good enough for the game. I am by no means saying server problems don't happen, that it's always the end-user, or that it's always the ISP at fault. However, a good amount of people do have better experiences in the game with higher end hardware. Some have reported limited-to-no-lag.

This was not a guide on how to build a computer but only a suggestion on what parts would be needed, in my opinion, to rule out poor system performance. If someone needs a guide on how to build a PC I suggest buildapc on reddit. I don't want to be responsible for any issues people have while building and therefore I am not going to explain the process on this forum.

As far as getting along with people to make helpful suggestions I've offered to befriend IndyWendieGo and she declined my friendship. I thought that extending him/her an olive branch first would be advantageous to becoming Thogard's friend as they seem to be in league together. But I will not tolerate offensive comments or bullying. I am willing to let the bullying go if they want to agree to be peaceful but I have been attacked and also my olive branch was rejected by Thogard's friend IndyWendieGo.

not attacking you. Just your information.

You still are trying to tell people that a slow CPU can cause latency. That is not true.

Because of what you're writing, some people may be inclined to buy something they do not need. That is not OK, and you seem to have expressed no remorse for that.

• Do you believe that we need a certain amount of CPU performance to play The Elder Scrolls Online?
• If you have answered yes what would be the minimum CPU required, in your opinion, to play The Elder Scrolls Online?
• Do you believe there is a certain amount of RAM that we need to play The Elder Scrolls Online?
• If you have answered yes what would be the amount of RAM, in your opinion, that we would need?
• Do you believe we need a specific amount of Graphics Processing performance to play The Elder Scrolls Online?
• If you have answered yes what would be the minimum GPU you would suggest?

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

@Knowledge

Please validate these statements, cite your logic and sources behind them, before you start casting stones.

wrote: »
I have a gtx 980 but cpu is phenom II 965 BE. I can't afford to upgrade even a little.

Unfortunately, that CPU is just a bit behind the times. You should see some gains with the multicore update though.

Most of the time it is the user's PC.

Being dropped from a loading screen can sometimes be the user's PC. Something we're not considering here is that PCs aren't infallible. A lot of people don't understand how a computer works and always blame the program.

The amount of video memory your have on your GPU is not really as big of a factor as what the actual chip is.

If what you were implying were true and the Central Processing Unit played no part in computing the data being delivered through the NIC then we would be able to play on Ultra High Settings, despite number of players on the screen, with just about any CPU. That is not how a computer works, I'm sorry.

Also, in your model we would have no benefit from Multicore Processor support being added.

I'll also add that networking traffic would literally be "dropped" if the CPU could not keep up which results in frame loss. This is what occurs when your character jumps from place to place in what we call rubber banding. This can happen at the switch (it has a CPU), the server, or on our end.

It's actually quite wrong. The dispute he and I are having is whether or not lag can be from CPUs and GPUs just as it can be from the network.

Lag can be a part of the entire computer system wherever a bottleneck lies. For example, if your CPU cannot keep up with your GPU, it can create lag and stuttering.

They actually use very good servers.

Once you've finished with this, please explain to us whether or not you actually believe your CPU truly affects your network latency.
If you do, explain your logic behind it. If you don't, do the same.

Afterwards, just to be sure, explain the difference between input lag, network lag, and low framerate. I expect more than one or two sentences explaining the differences between each, and if you cite wikipedia again, you'll have marks removed from your final grade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9XuCz1FQEU

Knowledge wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

@Knowledge

Please validate these statements, cite your logic and sources behind them, before you start casting stones.

Unfortunately, that CPU is just a bit behind the times. You should see some gains with the multicore update though.

Most of the time it is the user's PC.

Being dropped from a loading screen can sometimes be the user's PC. Something we're not considering here is that PCs aren't infallible. A lot of people don't understand how a computer works and always blame the program.

The amount of video memory your have on your GPU is not really as big of a factor as what the actual chip is.

If what you were implying were true and the Central Processing Unit played no part in computing the data being delivered through the NIC then we would be able to play on Ultra High Settings, despite number of players on the screen, with just about any CPU. That is not how a computer works, I'm sorry.

Also, in your model we would have no benefit from Multicore Processor support being added.

I'll also add that networking traffic would literally be "dropped" if the CPU could not keep up which results in frame loss. This is what occurs when your character jumps from place to place in what we call rubber banding. This can happen at the switch (it has a CPU), the server, or on our end.

It's actually quite wrong. The dispute he and I are having is whether or not lag can be from CPUs and GPUs just as it can be from the network.

Lag can be a part of the entire computer system wherever a bottleneck lies. For example, if your CPU cannot keep up with your GPU, it can create lag and stuttering.

They actually use very good servers.

Very well,

1. The Phenom II is beneath the minimum requirements ZeniMax has indicated for their engine -This checks out.
2. A vast majority of people play on low end PCs. Users that have mid to high end PC builds do not report similar issues. Many issues are rectified by troubleshooting. For example a user named IndyWendieGoGo was experiencing disconnects and contacted support. That user specific their issue and came to the conclusion it was add-on related. You may counter my argument with valid points or evidence against it otherwise I will not respond to any baseless counter argument. For example, if you say "that doesn't make sense" or do not provide any counter point I will ignore it. -You have not provided your source. How do you know how many people play on low end PCs, whether they are a majority, and whether or not these undefined "high end" users do or do not report similar issues?
3. This is easy PCs are not infallible. This is backed by the American Society of Civil Engineers http://cedb.asce.org/CEDBsearch/record.jsp?dockey=0046839 -This does not answer the question. Do your own work, don't copy and paste.
4. Many users, such as the one that made the aforementioned statement about video ram, think that VRAM is the determining factor in a GPUs performance. The architecture is actually the main determination of the performance along with drivers. Here is IBM data points: http://personal.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Webb/l3a15/extras/vrmsgrm.pdf, here is flexradio helpdesk https://helpdesk.flexradio.com/hc/en-us/articles/202118528-What-is-important-in-choosing-a-Video-Graphics-Card- here is a VRAM guide from LinusTechTips forums https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/198568-the-video-ram-information-guide/ -See number 3.
5. The CPU or Central Processing Unit is the brain of a PC. All data must be read by the CPU, including network data. This can be explained here: https://www.cozlink.com/pice-a272-2387-2388/article-73444.html A computer’s network card works by taking the data given to it by the CPU and sending it to a destination. It translates the data into a form that can be transferred via cables and then translates the data it receives back into data usable by the computer. Network interface cards receive this data from buses on the computer’s motherboard, typically those that send information toward the peripheral slots. The information is converted from a parallel structure to a linear structure by the network card, so it can readily transmit along cables. Once the network card receives the address for the destination device, the data is sent. Information sent back is then converted back into parallel structure and redistributed along the motherboard’s buses, so the CPU can process the received data. -Again, see number 3.
6. Multi Core Support is being added to the game to improve performance. This explains it: https://sapphirenation.net/importance-cpu-gaming/ -Being added to the game to improve performance does not mean it affects network latency or issues, or serverside issues. Dig deeper.
7. This point is explained on networkengineering.stackexchange.com: https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/30443/how-can-a-processor-handle-10-gigabit-per-second-or-more-data-rate/30496 What happens when the processor isn't fast enough is that traffic gets dropped. A lot of traffic may be dropped, anyway, since that is how congestion is handled, if done correctly. RED (Random Early Detection) is a method used to randomly drop packets in queues in order to prevent them from filling and tail-dropping packets. This can help to prevent TCP synchronization. A lot of drops occur on switches, where multiple ports of a speed may need to send to another single port of the same speed. -Irrelevant information. There are seven quotes, and ten answers. Check your reading comprehension.
8. I've listed several sources earlier on explaining lag from GPUs and CPUs while Thogard said lag is network related only: https://www.badosoft.com/knowledgebase/cpu-lag.php https://www.geforce.com/whats-new/guides/how-to-get-rid-of-lag-guide#1 See number 7.
9. Linus explains bottlenecking here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9XuCz1FQEU See number 7.
10. ZeniMax uses MegaServer technology which is what allows us to play on one server: https://elderscrollsonline.info/mega-server. It is highly advanced and explained here: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-megaserver-system/

Knowledge wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

@Knowledge

Please validate these statements, cite your logic and sources behind them, before you start casting stones.

Unfortunately, that CPU is just a bit behind the times. You should see some gains with the multicore update though.

Most of the time it is the user's PC.

Being dropped from a loading screen can sometimes be the user's PC. Something we're not considering here is that PCs aren't infallible. A lot of people don't understand how a computer works and always blame the program.

The amount of video memory your have on your GPU is not really as big of a factor as what the actual chip is.

If what you were implying were true and the Central Processing Unit played no part in computing the data being delivered through the NIC then we would be able to play on Ultra High Settings, despite number of players on the screen, with just about any CPU. That is not how a computer works, I'm sorry.

Also, in your model we would have no benefit from Multicore Processor support being added.

I'll also add that networking traffic would literally be "dropped" if the CPU could not keep up which results in frame loss. This is what occurs when your character jumps from place to place in what we call rubber banding. This can happen at the switch (it has a CPU), the server, or on our end.

It's actually quite wrong. The dispute he and I are having is whether or not lag can be from CPUs and GPUs just as it can be from the network.

Lag can be a part of the entire computer system wherever a bottleneck lies. For example, if your CPU cannot keep up with your GPU, it can create lag and stuttering.

They actually use very good servers.

Very well,

1. The Phenom II is beneath the minimum requirements ZeniMax has indicated for their engine -This checks out.
2. A vast majority of people play on low end PCs. Users that have mid to high end PC builds do not report similar issues. -you have not provided your source. How do you know how many people play on low end PCs, whether they are a majority, and whether or not these undefined "high end" users do or do not report similar issues?Many issues are rectified by troubleshooting. For example a user named IndyWendieGoGo was experiencing disconnects and contacted support. That user specific their issue and came to the conclusion it was add-on related. You may counter my argument with valid points or evidence against it otherwise I will not respond to any baseless counter argument. For example, if you say "that doesn't make sense" or do not provide any counter point I will ignore it.
3. This is easy PCs are not infallible. This is backed by the American Society of Civil Engineers http://cedb.asce.org/CEDBsearch/record.jsp?dockey=0046839 -This does not answer the question. Do your own work, don't copy and paste.
4. Many users, such as the one that made the aforementioned statement about video ram, think that VRAM is the determining factor in a GPUs performance. The architecture is actually the main determination of the performance along with drivers. Here is IBM data points: http://personal.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Webb/l3a15/extras/vrmsgrm.pdf, here is flexradio helpdesk https://helpdesk.flexradio.com/hc/en-us/articles/202118528-What-is-important-in-choosing-a-Video-Graphics-Card- here is a VRAM guide from LinusTechTips forums https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/198568-the-video-ram-information-guide/ -See number 3.
5. The CPU or Central Processing Unit is the brain of a PC. All data must be read by the CPU, including network data. This can be explained here: https://www.cozlink.com/pice-a272-2387-2388/article-73444.html A computer’s network card works by taking the data given to it by the CPU and sending it to a destination. It translates the data into a form that can be transferred via cables and then translates the data it receives back into data usable by the computer. Network interface cards receive this data from buses on the computer’s motherboard, typically those that send information toward the peripheral slots. The information is converted from a parallel structure to a linear structure by the network card, so it can readily transmit along cables. Once the network card receives the address for the destination device, the data is sent. Information sent back is then converted back into parallel structure and redistributed along the motherboard’s buses, so the CPU can process the received data. -Again, see number 3.
6. Multi Core Support is being added to the game to improve performance. This explains it: https://sapphirenation.net/importance-cpu-gaming/ -Being added to the game to improve performance does not mean it affects network latency or issues, or serverside issues. Dig deeper.
7. This point is explained on networkengineering.stackexchange.com: https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/30443/how-can-a-processor-handle-10-gigabit-per-second-or-more-data-rate/30496 What happens when the processor isn't fast enough is that traffic gets dropped. A lot of traffic may be dropped, anyway, since that is how congestion is handled, if done correctly. RED (Random Early Detection) is a method used to randomly drop packets in queues in order to prevent them from filling and tail-dropping packets. This can help to prevent TCP synchronization. A lot of drops occur on switches, where multiple ports of a speed may need to send to another single port of the same speed. Irrelevant information. There are seven quotes, and ten answers. Check your reading comprehension.
8. I've listed several sources earlier on explaining lag from GPUs and CPUs while Thogard said lag is network related only: https://www.badosoft.com/knowledgebase/cpu-lag.php https://www.geforce.com/whats-new/guides/how-to-get-rid-of-lag-guide#1 See number 7.
9. Linus explains bottlenecking here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9XuCz1FQEU See number 7.
10. ZeniMax uses MegaServer technology which is what allows us to play on one server: https://elderscrollsonline.info/mega-server. It is highly advanced and explained here: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-megaserver-system/

-You're quoting news articles and pieces rather than demonstrating any true knowledge or technical proficiency with such systems.

Now finish the second part of the edited test above.

I have provided references from reputable sources validating everything I've said. The references were provided to prevent dispute and is common in most debates. Wikipedia has footnote references for most of its articles, as examples, which link to other websites at the bottom of the page under the field titled references for this very reason.

I have proven that all information presented is true and correct from verifiable sources. I no longer have anything else to say on the matter unless you provide counter points or I will assume you have conceded.

Thanks for reading my data.

Knowledge wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

@Knowledge

Please validate these statements, cite your logic and sources behind them, before you start casting stones.

Unfortunately, that CPU is just a bit behind the times. You should see some gains with the multicore update though.

Most of the time it is the user's PC.

Being dropped from a loading screen can sometimes be the user's PC. Something we're not considering here is that PCs aren't infallible. A lot of people don't understand how a computer works and always blame the program.

The amount of video memory your have on your GPU is not really as big of a factor as what the actual chip is.

If what you were implying were true and the Central Processing Unit played no part in computing the data being delivered through the NIC then we would be able to play on Ultra High Settings, despite number of players on the screen, with just about any CPU. That is not how a computer works, I'm sorry.

Also, in your model we would have no benefit from Multicore Processor support being added.

I'll also add that networking traffic would literally be "dropped" if the CPU could not keep up which results in frame loss. This is what occurs when your character jumps from place to place in what we call rubber banding. This can happen at the switch (it has a CPU), the server, or on our end.

It's actually quite wrong. The dispute he and I are having is whether or not lag can be from CPUs and GPUs just as it can be from the network.

Lag can be a part of the entire computer system wherever a bottleneck lies. For example, if your CPU cannot keep up with your GPU, it can create lag and stuttering.

They actually use very good servers.

Very well,

1. The Phenom II is beneath the minimum requirements ZeniMax has indicated for their engine -This checks out.
2. A vast majority of people play on low end PCs. Users that have mid to high end PC builds do not report similar issues. -you have not provided your source. How do you know how many people play on low end PCs, whether they are a majority, and whether or not these undefined "high end" users do or do not report similar issues?Many issues are rectified by troubleshooting. For example a user named IndyWendieGoGo was experiencing disconnects and contacted support. That user specific their issue and came to the conclusion it was add-on related. You may counter my argument with valid points or evidence against it otherwise I will not respond to any baseless counter argument. For example, if you say "that doesn't make sense" or do not provide any counter point I will ignore it.
3. This is easy PCs are not infallible. This is backed by the American Society of Civil Engineers http://cedb.asce.org/CEDBsearch/record.jsp?dockey=0046839 -This does not answer the question. Do your own work, don't copy and paste.
4. Many users, such as the one that made the aforementioned statement about video ram, think that VRAM is the determining factor in a GPUs performance. The architecture is actually the main determination of the performance along with drivers. Here is IBM data points: http://personal.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Webb/l3a15/extras/vrmsgrm.pdf, here is flexradio helpdesk https://helpdesk.flexradio.com/hc/en-us/articles/202118528-What-is-important-in-choosing-a-Video-Graphics-Card- here is a VRAM guide from LinusTechTips forums https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/198568-the-video-ram-information-guide/ -See number 3.
5. The CPU or Central Processing Unit is the brain of a PC. All data must be read by the CPU, including network data. This can be explained here: https://www.cozlink.com/pice-a272-2387-2388/article-73444.html A computer’s network card works by taking the data given to it by the CPU and sending it to a destination. It translates the data into a form that can be transferred via cables and then translates the data it receives back into data usable by the computer. Network interface cards receive this data from buses on the computer’s motherboard, typically those that send information toward the peripheral slots. The information is converted from a parallel structure to a linear structure by the network card, so it can readily transmit along cables. Once the network card receives the address for the destination device, the data is sent. Information sent back is then converted back into parallel structure and redistributed along the motherboard’s buses, so the CPU can process the received data. -Again, see number 3.
6. Multi Core Support is being added to the game to improve performance. This explains it: https://sapphirenation.net/importance-cpu-gaming/ -Being added to the game to improve performance does not mean it affects network latency or issues, or serverside issues. Dig deeper.
7. This point is explained on networkengineering.stackexchange.com: https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/30443/how-can-a-processor-handle-10-gigabit-per-second-or-more-data-rate/30496 What happens when the processor isn't fast enough is that traffic gets dropped. A lot of traffic may be dropped, anyway, since that is how congestion is handled, if done correctly. RED (Random Early Detection) is a method used to randomly drop packets in queues in order to prevent them from filling and tail-dropping packets. This can help to prevent TCP synchronization. A lot of drops occur on switches, where multiple ports of a speed may need to send to another single port of the same speed. Irrelevant information. There are seven quotes, and ten answers. Check your reading comprehension.
8. I've listed several sources earlier on explaining lag from GPUs and CPUs while Thogard said lag is network related only: https://www.badosoft.com/knowledgebase/cpu-lag.php https://www.geforce.com/whats-new/guides/how-to-get-rid-of-lag-guide#1 See number 7.
9. Linus explains bottlenecking here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9XuCz1FQEU See number 7.
10. ZeniMax uses MegaServer technology which is what allows us to play on one server: https://elderscrollsonline.info/mega-server. It is highly advanced and explained here: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-megaserver-system/

-You're quoting news articles and pieces rather than demonstrating any true knowledge or technical proficiency with such systems.

Now finish the second part of the edited test above.

I have provided references from reputable sources validating everything I've said. The references were provided to prevent dispute and is common in most debates. Wikipedia has footnote references for most of its articles, as examples, which link to other websites at the bottom of the page under the field titled references for this very reason.

I have proven that all information presented is true and correct from verifiable sources. I no longer have anything else to say on the matter unless you provide counter points or I will assume you have conceded.

Thanks for reading my data.

This is hardly sufficient, and you aren't in any position to decide whether or not you are credible on these forums. Either you follow through and give it some real thought, or walk away knowing this thread has every little ounce of detail the forum goers could ever want to know about you.

If you're happy with that, so be it. I'm giving you a chance to exonerate yourself.

Unfortunately, it seems as though you are unable to provide any counter argument. I think you are conceding the debate at this point and attacking me because you do not have a counter argument. Please note I will accept basic counter arguments to continue the debate.

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

@Knowledge

Please validate these statements, cite your logic and sources behind them, before you start casting stones.

Unfortunately, that CPU is just a bit behind the times. You should see some gains with the multicore update though.

Most of the time it is the user's PC.

Being dropped from a loading screen can sometimes be the user's PC. Something we're not considering here is that PCs aren't infallible. A lot of people don't understand how a computer works and always blame the program.

The amount of video memory your have on your GPU is not really as big of a factor as what the actual chip is.

If what you were implying were true and the Central Processing Unit played no part in computing the data being delivered through the NIC then we would be able to play on Ultra High Settings, despite number of players on the screen, with just about any CPU. That is not how a computer works, I'm sorry.

Also, in your model we would have no benefit from Multicore Processor support being added.

I'll also add that networking traffic would literally be "dropped" if the CPU could not keep up which results in frame loss. This is what occurs when your character jumps from place to place in what we call rubber banding. This can happen at the switch (it has a CPU), the server, or on our end.

It's actually quite wrong. The dispute he and I are having is whether or not lag can be from CPUs and GPUs just as it can be from the network.

Lag can be a part of the entire computer system wherever a bottleneck lies. For example, if your CPU cannot keep up with your GPU, it can create lag and stuttering.

They actually use very good servers.

Very well,

1. The Phenom II is beneath the minimum requirements ZeniMax has indicated for their engine -This checks out.
2. A vast majority of people play on low end PCs. Users that have mid to high end PC builds do not report similar issues. -you have not provided your source. How do you know how many people play on low end PCs, whether they are a majority, and whether or not these undefined "high end" users do or do not report similar issues?Many issues are rectified by troubleshooting. For example a user named IndyWendieGoGo was experiencing disconnects and contacted support. That user specific their issue and came to the conclusion it was add-on related. You may counter my argument with valid points or evidence against it otherwise I will not respond to any baseless counter argument. For example, if you say "that doesn't make sense" or do not provide any counter point I will ignore it.
3. This is easy PCs are not infallible. This is backed by the American Society of Civil Engineers http://cedb.asce.org/CEDBsearch/record.jsp?dockey=0046839 -This does not answer the question. Do your own work, don't copy and paste.
4. Many users, such as the one that made the aforementioned statement about video ram, think that VRAM is the determining factor in a GPUs performance. The architecture is actually the main determination of the performance along with drivers. Here is IBM data points: http://personal.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Webb/l3a15/extras/vrmsgrm.pdf, here is flexradio helpdesk https://helpdesk.flexradio.com/hc/en-us/articles/202118528-What-is-important-in-choosing-a-Video-Graphics-Card- here is a VRAM guide from LinusTechTips forums https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/198568-the-video-ram-information-guide/ -See number 3.
5. The CPU or Central Processing Unit is the brain of a PC. All data must be read by the CPU, including network data. This can be explained here: https://www.cozlink.com/pice-a272-2387-2388/article-73444.html A computer’s network card works by taking the data given to it by the CPU and sending it to a destination. It translates the data into a form that can be transferred via cables and then translates the data it receives back into data usable by the computer. Network interface cards receive this data from buses on the computer’s motherboard, typically those that send information toward the peripheral slots. The information is converted from a parallel structure to a linear structure by the network card, so it can readily transmit along cables. Once the network card receives the address for the destination device, the data is sent. Information sent back is then converted back into parallel structure and redistributed along the motherboard’s buses, so the CPU can process the received data. -Again, see number 3.
6. Multi Core Support is being added to the game to improve performance. This explains it: https://sapphirenation.net/importance-cpu-gaming/ -Being added to the game to improve performance does not mean it affects network latency or issues, or serverside issues. Dig deeper.
7. This point is explained on networkengineering.stackexchange.com: https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/30443/how-can-a-processor-handle-10-gigabit-per-second-or-more-data-rate/30496 What happens when the processor isn't fast enough is that traffic gets dropped. A lot of traffic may be dropped, anyway, since that is how congestion is handled, if done correctly. RED (Random Early Detection) is a method used to randomly drop packets in queues in order to prevent them from filling and tail-dropping packets. This can help to prevent TCP synchronization. A lot of drops occur on switches, where multiple ports of a speed may need to send to another single port of the same speed. Irrelevant information. There are seven quotes, and ten answers. Check your reading comprehension.
8. I've listed several sources earlier on explaining lag from GPUs and CPUs while Thogard said lag is network related only: https://www.badosoft.com/knowledgebase/cpu-lag.php https://www.geforce.com/whats-new/guides/how-to-get-rid-of-lag-guide#1 See number 7.
9. Linus explains bottlenecking here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9XuCz1FQEU See number 7.
10. ZeniMax uses MegaServer technology which is what allows us to play on one server: https://elderscrollsonline.info/mega-server. It is highly advanced and explained here: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-megaserver-system/

-You're quoting news articles and pieces rather than demonstrating any true knowledge or technical proficiency with such systems.

Now finish the second part of the edited test above.

I have provided references from reputable sources validating everything I've said. The references were provided to prevent dispute and is common in most debates. Wikipedia has footnote references for most of its articles, as examples, which link to other websites at the bottom of the page under the field titled references for this very reason.

I have proven that all information presented is true and correct from verifiable sources. I no longer have anything else to say on the matter unless you provide counter points or I will assume you have conceded.

Thanks for reading my data.

This is hardly sufficient, and you aren't in any position to decide whether or not you are credible on these forums. Either you follow through and give it some real thought, or walk away knowing this thread has every little ounce of detail the forum goers could ever want to know about you.

If you're happy with that, so be it. I'm giving you a chance to exonerate yourself.

Knowledge wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

@Knowledge

Please validate these statements, cite your logic and sources behind them, before you start casting stones.

Unfortunately, that CPU is just a bit behind the times. You should see some gains with the multicore update though.

Most of the time it is the user's PC.

Being dropped from a loading screen can sometimes be the user's PC. Something we're not considering here is that PCs aren't infallible. A lot of people don't understand how a computer works and always blame the program.

The amount of video memory your have on your GPU is not really as big of a factor as what the actual chip is.

If what you were implying were true and the Central Processing Unit played no part in computing the data being delivered through the NIC then we would be able to play on Ultra High Settings, despite number of players on the screen, with just about any CPU. That is not how a computer works, I'm sorry.

Also, in your model we would have no benefit from Multicore Processor support being added.

I'll also add that networking traffic would literally be "dropped" if the CPU could not keep up which results in frame loss. This is what occurs when your character jumps from place to place in what we call rubber banding. This can happen at the switch (it has a CPU), the server, or on our end.

It's actually quite wrong. The dispute he and I are having is whether or not lag can be from CPUs and GPUs just as it can be from the network.

Lag can be a part of the entire computer system wherever a bottleneck lies. For example, if your CPU cannot keep up with your GPU, it can create lag and stuttering.

They actually use very good servers.

Very well,

1. The Phenom II is beneath the minimum requirements ZeniMax has indicated for their engine -This checks out.
2. A vast majority of people play on low end PCs. Users that have mid to high end PC builds do not report similar issues. -you have not provided your source. How do you know how many people play on low end PCs, whether they are a majority, and whether or not these undefined "high end" users do or do not report similar issues?Many issues are rectified by troubleshooting. For example a user named IndyWendieGoGo was experiencing disconnects and contacted support. That user specific their issue and came to the conclusion it was add-on related. You may counter my argument with valid points or evidence against it otherwise I will not respond to any baseless counter argument. For example, if you say "that doesn't make sense" or do not provide any counter point I will ignore it.
3. This is easy PCs are not infallible. This is backed by the American Society of Civil Engineers http://cedb.asce.org/CEDBsearch/record.jsp?dockey=0046839 -This does not answer the question. Do your own work, don't copy and paste.
4. Many users, such as the one that made the aforementioned statement about video ram, think that VRAM is the determining factor in a GPUs performance. The architecture is actually the main determination of the performance along with drivers. Here is IBM data points: http://personal.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Webb/l3a15/extras/vrmsgrm.pdf, here is flexradio helpdesk https://helpdesk.flexradio.com/hc/en-us/articles/202118528-What-is-important-in-choosing-a-Video-Graphics-Card- here is a VRAM guide from LinusTechTips forums https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/198568-the-video-ram-information-guide/ -See number 3.
5. The CPU or Central Processing Unit is the brain of a PC. All data must be read by the CPU, including network data. This can be explained here: https://www.cozlink.com/pice-a272-2387-2388/article-73444.html A computer’s network card works by taking the data given to it by the CPU and sending it to a destination. It translates the data into a form that can be transferred via cables and then translates the data it receives back into data usable by the computer. Network interface cards receive this data from buses on the computer’s motherboard, typically those that send information toward the peripheral slots. The information is converted from a parallel structure to a linear structure by the network card, so it can readily transmit along cables. Once the network card receives the address for the destination device, the data is sent. Information sent back is then converted back into parallel structure and redistributed along the motherboard’s buses, so the CPU can process the received data. -Again, see number 3.
6. Multi Core Support is being added to the game to improve performance. This explains it: https://sapphirenation.net/importance-cpu-gaming/ -Being added to the game to improve performance does not mean it affects network latency or issues, or serverside issues. Dig deeper.
7. This point is explained on networkengineering.stackexchange.com: https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/30443/how-can-a-processor-handle-10-gigabit-per-second-or-more-data-rate/30496 What happens when the processor isn't fast enough is that traffic gets dropped. A lot of traffic may be dropped, anyway, since that is how congestion is handled, if done correctly. RED (Random Early Detection) is a method used to randomly drop packets in queues in order to prevent them from filling and tail-dropping packets. This can help to prevent TCP synchronization. A lot of drops occur on switches, where multiple ports of a speed may need to send to another single port of the same speed. Irrelevant information. There are seven quotes, and ten answers. Check your reading comprehension.
8. I've listed several sources earlier on explaining lag from GPUs and CPUs while Thogard said lag is network related only: https://www.badosoft.com/knowledgebase/cpu-lag.php https://www.geforce.com/whats-new/guides/how-to-get-rid-of-lag-guide#1 See number 7.
9. Linus explains bottlenecking here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9XuCz1FQEU See number 7.
10. ZeniMax uses MegaServer technology which is what allows us to play on one server: https://elderscrollsonline.info/mega-server. It is highly advanced and explained here: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-megaserver-system/

-You're quoting news articles and pieces rather than demonstrating any true knowledge or technical proficiency with such systems.

Now finish the second part of the edited test above.

I have provided references from reputable sources validating everything I've said. The references were provided to prevent dispute and is common in most debates. Wikipedia has footnote references for most of its articles, as examples, which link to other websites at the bottom of the page under the field titled references for this very reason.

I have proven that all information presented is true and correct from verifiable sources. I no longer have anything else to say on the matter unless you provide counter points or I will assume you have conceded.

Thanks for reading my data.

This is hardly sufficient, and you aren't in any position to decide whether or not you are credible on these forums. Either you follow through and give it some real thought, or walk away knowing this thread has every little ounce of detail the forum goers could ever want to know about you.

If you're happy with that, so be it. I'm giving you a chance to exonerate yourself.

Unfortunately, it seems as though you are unable to provide any counter argument. I think you are conceding the debate at this point and attacking me because you do not have a counter argument. Please note I will accept basic counter arguments to continue the debate.

I'm not attacking you my friend. You are not in control, you're going to have to accept that. Think about your previous threads, and how people have reacted to you. Think about your own reputation on these forums, and really give it some consideration. We're not in the best situation right now, and I'm trying to make it right for you. But you have to be willing to play along.

I will only accept a counter argument at this point. If you are unable to provide one I will assume you concede that I was correct. It is okay if that is the outcome.

Knowledge wrote: »

We need to make sure it's not on your end. A lot of people I've spoken to in the game have misinterpreted lag for poor performance. Not everyone is tech savvy so I have prepared a list to help you improve your gaming experience.

Before going further I play with a 1080 Ti and a Kaby Lake platform. My internet speed is about 100mbps down. My drivers are all updated and I rarely experience lag even in PVP. The multicore update should eliminate most of my lag.

Moving on, it is important that you remember that your graphics card has limitations. Everyone's GPU(Graphics Processing Unit) has a different level of capability and will therefore allow game play to be smooth at specific settings. For example, if you have a 1080 or 1080 ti it is likely you can play at the Ultra High Setting. However, a few people are using older graphics cards such as 700 series or older and complaining about performance. Not to mention, some even have on board video! If you have integrated video it's time to start shopping for something better.

Moreover, you want to make sure your CPU is up to the task. The recommended (not minimum) CPU for this game is an intel i5 2300 or AMD FX4350 CPU. Keep in mind, just because these are recommended that does not mean you should expect flawless game play or ultra settings. Further, your CPU is the brain of your PC and must not only deal with your input, draw calls from your gpu, but also compute the network data being fed into it. This is a huge task for something like an i5 2300 CPU and may result in less than desired performance.

Before we can blame the game we need to make sure we have decent components. Here is what I would recommend for a decent ESO experience. Please remember, this is my opinion, is not the recommended or minimum requirements for the game, and is just what I think would offer you a fantastic experience.

• For Intel CPU: i5 2500k OR Better
• For AMD CPU: Ryzen 1600x or better
• For NVIDIA GPU: GTX 980 or better
• For AMD GPU: RADEON R9 290x or better
• 8 GB of DDR3 or better
• Windows 10 64-bit (remember 64-bit is the only client for the game)
• SSD or nVME drive (Samsung 850 EVO or better)
• 10mbps Internet Connection or better
• Adequate CPU cooler and airflow to prevent throttling (Minimum Hyper 212 EVO cooler)

Please remember that my minimum suggested part is assuming you are playing at 1920 x 1080. If you increase your resolution to 1440p+ you may need even better hardware.

DoctorESO wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

We need to make sure it's not on your end. A lot of people I've spoken to in the game have misinterpreted lag for poor performance. Not everyone is tech savvy so I have prepared a list to help you improve your gaming experience.

Before going further I play with a 1080 Ti and a Kaby Lake platform. My internet speed is about 100mbps down. My drivers are all updated and I rarely experience lag even in PVP. The multicore update should eliminate most of my lag.

Moving on, it is important that you remember that your graphics card has limitations. Everyone's GPU(Graphics Processing Unit) has a different level of capability and will therefore allow game play to be smooth at specific settings. For example, if you have a 1080 or 1080 ti it is likely you can play at the Ultra High Setting. However, a few people are using older graphics cards such as 700 series or older and complaining about performance. Not to mention, some even have on board video! If you have integrated video it's time to start shopping for something better.

Moreover, you want to make sure your CPU is up to the task. The recommended (not minimum) CPU for this game is an intel i5 2300 or AMD FX4350 CPU. Keep in mind, just because these are recommended that does not mean you should expect flawless game play or ultra settings. Further, your CPU is the brain of your PC and must not only deal with your input, draw calls from your gpu, but also compute the network data being fed into it. This is a huge task for something like an i5 2300 CPU and may result in less than desired performance.

Before we can blame the game we need to make sure we have decent components. Here is what I would recommend for a decent ESO experience. Please remember, this is my opinion, is not the recommended or minimum requirements for the game, and is just what I think would offer you a fantastic experience.

• For Intel CPU: i5 2500k OR Better
• For AMD CPU: Ryzen 1600x or better
• For NVIDIA GPU: GTX 980 or better
• For AMD GPU: RADEON R9 290x or better
• 8 GB of DDR3 or better
• Windows 10 64-bit (remember 64-bit is the only client for the game)
• SSD or nVME drive (Samsung 850 EVO or better)
• 10mbps Internet Connection or better
• Adequate CPU cooler and airflow to prevent throttling (Minimum Hyper 212 EVO cooler)

Please remember that my minimum suggested part is assuming you are playing at 1920 x 1080. If you increase your resolution to 1440p+ you may need even better hardware.

Wow...how do consoles ever compete with PC? Lower graphics settings?

Iskras wrote: »

None of this, only ZOS servers or ZOS servers are or are terrible. This is called greed. ZOS sells too many accounts and does not plan how it will supply that on its servers. You can have a NASA computer, no matter ... the servers are overloaded or outdate.