IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

@Knowledge just out of curiosity, what exactly do you think the CPU does? I know that you mistakenly believe it to be responsible for data transfer between your client and the game server, but you don’t think it does anything else?

You seem to be implying that a CPU isn’t needed for single-player games that don’t connect to the internet.

I'd prefer if you responded to the developer's statement you said " is akin to someone claiming to be a doctor saying the reason you feel depressed is because the feel good butterflies in your head had a spell cast on them by a witch. "

I'm trying to get in touch with him but I'd like to see how you respond to that before we move further.

So you're not going to address the glaring mistakes he's pointed out in your own logic? Don't be that person.

You need to learn just like everyone else. There's nothing wrong with being wrong so long as you own up to it and learn.

TBH, I think he's just trying to pass the buck on developers now and not admit to making mistakes. But given the source material of the OP and his threads as well as asking developers from other games for 'help' in an 'internet argument' is not only touching, it's perfect for this popcorn I just popped.

Knowledge wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

@Knowledge just out of curiosity, what exactly do you think the CPU does? I know that you mistakenly believe it to be responsible for data transfer between your client and the game server, but you don’t think it does anything else?

You seem to be implying that a CPU isn’t needed for single-player games that don’t connect to the internet.

I'd prefer if you responded to the developer's statement you said " is akin to someone claiming to be a doctor saying the reason you feel depressed is because the feel good butterflies in your head had a spell cast on them by a witch. "

I'm trying to get in touch with him but I'd like to see how you respond to that before we move further.

So you're not going to address the glaring mistakes he's pointed out in your own logic? Don't be that person.

You need to learn just like everyone else. There's nothing wrong with being wrong so long as you own up to it and learn.

If your CPU is incapable as more and more load is put on it, it will begin to slow down.

Knowledge wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

@Knowledge just out of curiosity, what exactly do you think the CPU does? I know that you mistakenly believe it to be responsible for data transfer between your client and the game server, but you don’t think it does anything else?

You seem to be implying that a CPU isn’t needed for single-player games that don’t connect to the internet.

I'd prefer if you responded to the developer's statement you said " is akin to someone claiming to be a doctor saying the reason you feel depressed is because the feel good butterflies in your head had a spell cast on them by a witch. "

I'm trying to get in touch with him but I'd like to see how you respond to that before we move further.

So you're not going to address the glaring mistakes he's pointed out in your own logic? Don't be that person.

You need to learn just like everyone else. There's nothing wrong with being wrong so long as you own up to it and learn.

If your CPU is incapable as more and more load is put on it, it will begin to slow down.

If you sound out gullible slow enough, when adding this context to your original post, it sounds like oranges.

Do you disagree that the CPU plays a role in your game performance?

Smokewood wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Smokewood wrote: »

PC master race.. lol
Plug a xbox into a tv and you are good to go!!
All you need is a HDMI cable!

why are xbox players always complaining about lag and disconnects then?


hint: take a look around the forum.

Well, they aren't lagging or getting disconnected any more than the PC players are....
Gaming PC cost at least $900 without a monitor.
Xbox1 cost less than $400.

I work all day on computers, the xbox is a great change of pace and environment for me.

and BTW - I was just poking fun at the PC guys....

Dredlord wrote: »

Varidian wrote: »

To a degree I am in agreement with you sure - not all players will have cutting edge equipment or super fibre broadband that's a granted point... but this game is four years old;

I have a 980TI and 12 gig of ram pumping through an I7 quad... this game pc was built to run star citizen level graphics... so ESO is fish in a barrel for my comp. I can work on photoshop, run a video editing system processing an MP4 1080p HD video and listen to Spotify whiles I'm tearing around Auridon in between at the same time... I know because I do these things when I need to lol

and I still suffer from chronic break downs of FPS aswell as motivation when I only have the game running and nothing else in the background. The programming for this game is awful.

how the f^*k can a bank deposit lag? and a guild store be so choppy? just last night it made me wait 70 odd seconds to place a plant in my house "placing item" or something it said in the corner

this game has more bugs than a rain forest floor. I'm sorry but I have played Alpha stage games with smoother performance.

OP thanks for your trigger worthy title...

Read this post, now come to terms with this game actually being a horrible laggy mess. EVERYONE here since the beginning knows the patch this happened.

You're not really helping anyone with your thread...

Knowledge wrote: »

Smokewood wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Smokewood wrote: »

PC master race.. lol
Plug a xbox into a tv and you are good to go!!
All you need is a HDMI cable!

why are xbox players always complaining about lag and disconnects then?


hint: take a look around the forum.

Well, they aren't lagging or getting disconnected any more than the PC players are....
Gaming PC cost at least $900 without a monitor.
Xbox1 cost less than $400.

I work all day on computers, the xbox is a great change of pace and environment for me.

and BTW - I was just poking fun at the PC guys....

The fun thing is an XBOX is a computer with a proprietary Operating System and proprietary software. It has a motherboard, GPU, CPU, RAM, and NIC just like a PC. In fact, it even uses similar component brands to most modern PCs! It has an AMD eight core APU.

Thogard wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

@Knowledge just out of curiosity, what exactly do you think the CPU does? I know that you mistakenly believe it to be responsible for data transfer between your client and the game server, but you don’t think it does anything else?

You seem to be implying that a CPU isn’t needed for single-player games that don’t connect to the internet.

I'd prefer if you responded to the developer's statement you said " is akin to someone claiming to be a doctor saying the reason you feel depressed is because the feel good butterflies in your head had a spell cast on them by a witch. "

I'm trying to get in touch with him but I'd like to see how you respond to that before we move further.

What is the developer’s statement? The solo post of yours that talks about CPU and GPU bottlenecks interacting with frame rates? That is completely factual.

It also has absolutely nothing to do with what we were talking about earlier. At no point in that quote is a connection to a server mentioned. At no point in that post are any of my own points contradicted.

The CPU and the GPU affect the frame rate.
Your NIC, settings, route, ISP, modem, and a million other things affect the latency.

But what I find to be particularly amusing is that you’re under the impression that what the dev in that quote refers to as “input lag” is the same thing as the lag between when a button is pressed and when the skill happens. It’s not. You even linked the correct definition. Did you bother to read that? I haven’t seen you mention monitors yet this thread, but if you want to take another detour and double down on this too, please be my guest.

Im Starting to suspect that you’re trolling me. But please go ask your developer friend. Be sure to post his response. I wonder how gently you’ll be corrected.

The developer's statement is the end of my post that you critiqued and insulted. https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/1906233/#Comment_1906233

In your own words: " I knew that you weren’t familiar with how these systems work, but I didn’t realize how spectacularly wrong you are. Reading your most recent post is akin to someone claiming to be a doctor saying the reason you feel depressed is because the feel good butterflies in your head had a spell cast on them by a witch. "

That was in response to Matso's statement.

Ah I found it. Interesting.

A few things to point out:
1. This game (natural selection 2) doesn’t appear to have a central server
2. This is not an MMO it’s an RTS
3. This “prediction” stuff is not relevant in MMOs and was a specific feature of this game, which is why it reads like gibberish to people who aren’t familiar with that game.

Let me explain what he means, which might help you understand why it isn’t relevant.

In ESO you can walk forwards or backwards. You can’t pick a destination and you cannot automate any features
In an RTS, you don’t choose to walk forwards or backwards, instead you pick a destination and the unit goes there on its own. It navigates terrain on its own.

In other words, in MMOs you just have one element to an input to move - the direction. This occurs instantaneously. In an RTS, you have one input - the destination, but it takes time to get there.

When the server lags in an MMO and the command is lost, your character stops moving. Because there is no “final” destination specified, there is no reason or capacity to “predict” where on the path the unit is.

But what about an RTS? What if the lag happens after the input, but before the unit reaches its destination? That’s where this prediction comes in.

It’s actually quite clever. The worse the server (ping) gets, the fewer “snapshots” (read: progress updates and verifications) are sent out by the server to the clients. But in an RTS, we know where the unit is going, as well as the speed it takes to get there, so we can PREDICT the unit’s progress even without getting the full information from the server. The less information we get from the server, the more predictions we have to do, and in an RTS with hundreds of units, that can become taxing on the CPU.

This isn’t relevant in an MMO setting because no “final destinations” are selected. We are vectors, not lines, and when the server freezes, all of your opponents freeze too, only to then have everything hit you all at once when the connection resumes. It does not “predict” that your opponent will follow up a snipe with another snipe.. it just hits you with both of them when the lag spike ends. Yay.

i want to stress, though, that even if this was relevant to this game (it’s not), your causation here is utterly backwards. The server lag is causing the higher CPU usage by offloading predictions to the client (again, not possible in ESO) which causes the drop in FPS. It is not, as you imply, the other way around... the low FPS is not causing the server to lag. Even in your non-relevant example you still got the relationship backwards.

OK I’m done here. My thumb hurts and I’m posting from my phone.

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

@Knowledge just out of curiosity, what exactly do you think the CPU does? I know that you mistakenly believe it to be responsible for data transfer between your client and the game server, but you don’t think it does anything else?

You seem to be implying that a CPU isn’t needed for single-player games that don’t connect to the internet.

I'd prefer if you responded to the developer's statement you said " is akin to someone claiming to be a doctor saying the reason you feel depressed is because the feel good butterflies in your head had a spell cast on them by a witch. "

I'm trying to get in touch with him but I'd like to see how you respond to that before we move further.

So you're not going to address the glaring mistakes he's pointed out in your own logic? Don't be that person.

You need to learn just like everyone else. There's nothing wrong with being wrong so long as you own up to it and learn.

If your CPU is incapable as more and more load is put on it, it will begin to slow down.

If you sound out gullible slow enough, when adding this context to your original post, it sounds like oranges.

Do you disagree that the CPU plays a role in your game performance?

Do you think that the CPU is the only thing that affects performance?

No, that's why I listed internet connection speed, cpu, gpu, among other things in my original post. Please read it and you will know what I believe impacts performance on our end. This does not mean I am saying performance hindrances cannot happen on the server side but there are people playing on less than adequate computes that are complaining about Zenimax.

Zenimax isn't at fault if you're expecting smooth gameplay with integrated graphics and an inadequate CPU.

I did read it. I read it and LOLed when Thogard corrected you- several times. Please read the complaints fully and actually figure out if it's 'graphical lag' or 'latency' before posting another blatantly misinformed thread. Thanks.

Also, your 'dev response' is from 2012 and is an extremely watered down synopsis on how this stuff works. When are we getting a response from your 'developer friend'?

Thogard was just stating incorrect or altered information. When I posted an actual developer comment on this matter he insulted it thinking it was my own. It is very apparent that Thogard was only looking to impress people with false data.

So you're calling it fake news now. My god, I wish there was an LOL button.

No, I am just saying people should actually consider the information they are attacking before assuming it won't be proven or that someone with a specific degree and extensive history in a field won't counter it with actual facts. Matso is a senior developer and former systems architect. He has coded engines from the ground up.

EDIT: I believe he deserves more respect than: " I knew that you weren’t familiar with how these systems work, but I didn’t realize how spectacularly wrong you are. Reading your most recent post is akin to someone claiming to be a doctor saying the reason you feel depressed is because the feel good butterflies in your head had a spell cast on them by a witch. " "

You made this thread. Not the NS2 dev. You made these erroneous assumptions, not the dev. You advised people, ignorantly, to waste their income on snake oil. Not the dev. You brought the dev, someone fsr too busy running an actual game of hes still on the team, into a discussion that doesnt fit the context of said discussion. You are now trying to get this person to back you up on some no name forum.

You were wrong, you got called out on it.
Be an adult and accept responsibility, before thus entire thread gets gutted over something pointless like hurt feelings.

Defilted wrote: »

Something else to keep in mind ESO is a single core game only. It is not coded to use multiple cores. Multi core support is coming this year. This will make a huge difference with how the game runs.

Knowledge wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

@Knowledge just out of curiosity, what exactly do you think the CPU does? I know that you mistakenly believe it to be responsible for data transfer between your client and the game server, but you don’t think it does anything else?

You seem to be implying that a CPU isn’t needed for single-player games that don’t connect to the internet.

I'd prefer if you responded to the developer's statement you said " is akin to someone claiming to be a doctor saying the reason you feel depressed is because the feel good butterflies in your head had a spell cast on them by a witch. "

I'm trying to get in touch with him but I'd like to see how you respond to that before we move further.

What is the developer’s statement? The solo post of yours that talks about CPU and GPU bottlenecks interacting with frame rates? That is completely factual.

It also has absolutely nothing to do with what we were talking about earlier. At no point in that quote is a connection to a server mentioned. At no point in that post are any of my own points contradicted.

The CPU and the GPU affect the frame rate.
Your NIC, settings, route, ISP, modem, and a million other things affect the latency.

But what I find to be particularly amusing is that you’re under the impression that what the dev in that quote refers to as “input lag” is the same thing as the lag between when a button is pressed and when the skill happens. It’s not. You even linked the correct definition. Did you bother to read that? I haven’t seen you mention monitors yet this thread, but if you want to take another detour and double down on this too, please be my guest.

Im Starting to suspect that you’re trolling me. But please go ask your developer friend. Be sure to post his response. I wonder how gently you’ll be corrected.

The developer's statement is the end of my post that you critiqued and insulted. https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/1906233/#Comment_1906233

In your own words: " I knew that you weren’t familiar with how these systems work, but I didn’t realize how spectacularly wrong you are. Reading your most recent post is akin to someone claiming to be a doctor saying the reason you feel depressed is because the feel good butterflies in your head had a spell cast on them by a witch. "

That was in response to Matso's statement.

Ah I found it. Interesting.

A few things to point out:
1. This game (natural selection 2) doesn’t appear to have a central server
2. This is not an MMO it’s an RTS
3. This “prediction” stuff is not relevant in MMOs and was a specific feature of this game, which is why it reads like gibberish to people who aren’t familiar with that game.

Let me explain what he means, which might help you understand why it isn’t relevant.

In ESO you can walk forwards or backwards. You can’t pick a destination and you cannot automate any features
In an RTS, you don’t choose to walk forwards or backwards, instead you pick a destination and the unit goes there on its own. It navigates terrain on its own.

In other words, in MMOs you just have one element to an input to move - the direction. This occurs instantaneously. In an RTS, you have one input - the destination, but it takes time to get there.

When the server lags in an MMO and the command is lost, your character stops moving. Because there is no “final” destination specified, there is no reason or capacity to “predict” where on the path the unit is.

But what about an RTS? What if the lag happens after the input, but before the unit reaches its destination? That’s where this prediction comes in.

It’s actually quite clever. The worse the server (ping) gets, the fewer “snapshots” (read: progress updates and verifications) are sent out by the server to the clients. But in an RTS, we know where the unit is going, as well as the speed it takes to get there, so we can PREDICT the unit’s progress even without getting the full information from the server. The less information we get from the server, the more predictions we have to do, and in an RTS with hundreds of units, that can become taxing on the CPU.

This isn’t relevant in an MMO setting because no “final destinations” are selected. We are vectors, not lines, and when the server freezes, all of your opponents freeze too, only to then have everything hit you all at once when the connection resumes. It does not “predict” that your opponent will follow up a snipe with another snipe.. it just hits you with both of them when the lag spike ends. Yay.

i want to stress, though, that even if this was relevant to this game (it’s not), your causation here is utterly backwards. The server lag is causing the higher CPU usage by offloading predictions to the client (again, not possible in ESO) which causes the drop in FPS. It is not, as you imply, the other way around... the low FPS is not causing the server to lag. Even in your non-relevant example you still got the relationship backwards.

OK I’m done here. My thumb hurts and I’m posting from my phone.

Unfortunately, this is false information. Natural Selection is an FPS also. You're just spouting random information.