[Summerset] ZOS please revert Sunder/NMG changes, and improve Alkosh

Feanor · April 2018

JobooAGS wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Please dps consider not going through with this atm otherwise we will go back to all mag raid groups. At it's current state raid teams are pretty balanced but this unnecessary change isn't needed and will create division.

I don´t find it balanced when a stamina specc can pull 10-15k more DPS than it´s magicka counterpart. Stamina DPS needs to be brought down so magicka melee´s have a change to be viable.

Improve stam ranged surviability and/or utility and you can have mag melee

That's not a question of stam being bad at ranged but of magicka melee being so far behind.

My point is if mag can be good at both melee and ranged, why cant stam?

Can it though? I doubt it. Besides, the theme that ZOS plays since Morrowind is one of choices.Here it's about having penetration or damage, but not both just for equipping two sets.

Edziu · April 2018

Feanor wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Please dps consider not going through with this atm otherwise we will go back to all mag raid groups. At it's current state raid teams are pretty balanced but this unnecessary change isn't needed and will create division.

I don´t find it balanced when a stamina specc can pull 10-15k more DPS than it´s magicka counterpart. Stamina DPS needs to be brought down so magicka melee´s have a change to be viable.

Improve stam ranged surviability and/or utility and you can have mag melee

That's not a question of stam being bad at ranged but of magicka melee being so far behind.

but why then mag should be even on par with stam on melee while stam cant on range? because if mag will be same on melee dps like stamina then we again wont have any reasons to bring anything releated with stamina to trails because mag is doing everything better with cleave, support, utility (look at synergies, how many stam abilities have synergy to active in dps skill?) and ofc survivability.....oh and mag dont need to stack that much additional penetration like stamina as they have additional 5k penetration in just armor passive

Royaji · April 2018

Ok, so changing Alkosh is a bit of a no go since it takes the stam DD set from MoL. Unless as was mentioned by others we make Alkosh tanking set and change (read scrap and entirely replace) Lunar Bastion. This is not going to happen.

Alkosh is not a tanking set. It was never intended to be a tanking set. But it's pretty much a staple for tanking. Why? Because ZOS has no idea how to design tanking sets. Like, absolutely. None. Tanking meta is still stuck with the sets that are either not designed for tanks (NMG, SPC, Alkosh) or were base game sets (Ebon, Akaviri Dragonguard). Have you seen a tank run Lunar Bastion or Inventor's Guard? Any of the Yokeda sets? Ironblood? Imperium? Leeching? I don't even remeber the names of the tanking sets from Dragon Bones dungenons.

Every set ZOS designs for tanks is lackluster (Imeprium), designed for bad tanks (Eternal Yokeda) or only gives pure tankiness (Lunar Bastion). You don't need tanky sets to tank. Attacks are either one-shots or spaced out enoguh to heal through. Tanks want support sets. And Alkosh fits right into the giant support-sized hole in tanking gear.

So as I said, either they have no idea how to design tanking sets or deliberatly keep tanking sets without any support to reign in group damage (since DDs always cry much more louder if they get nerfed).

StoicSunbro · April 2018

Inarre wrote: »

After reading the edited original post I am curious as to how you think changing the 2, 3, 4 pc set bonuses on alkosh to tank friendly bonuses will encourage the community to move away from using Alkosh for tanking?

Or am I misunderstanding the original post which said you fear these changes to penetration sets for stam dps will cement tanks in their use of alkosh?

I don't like dominant must-slot sets, but giving Alkosh tank bonuses is at a minimum better than the present.
Waitwhat's idea could work too: Make it incredibly attractive for a dps to wear. You don't even have to improve the dot, you can add 350+ Weapon Damage or a nice amount of crit.
They could also further mess with penetration sources to make it easier to reach the pen cap, making the necessity of Torug's/Alkosh dependent on group composition.

They are effectively making Sunder/NMG irrelevant. I don't like making sets irrelevant. I don't know their motivation. Do they want to reduce stam dps dominance? Do they want Lover/TFS/Spriggans/Sharpened to be used more? It seems an oversight to mess with raid penetration math, again, and continue to ignore Alkosh.

I'm open to any and all solutions here. It is clear that ZOS never intended for Alkosh to become a tank set. As @Royaji pointed put there is a lack of new Group buff tank sets. I just want them to address it since it has been this way for several patches.

ol_BANK_lo · April 2018

Wow, this would be a tremendously stupid move on ZOS' part to make these changes to NMG and Sunder. What in the...? Stamina in trials is all about working off each other. NMG, Sunder, War Machine, etc are all used to compliment each other. Now you will have two identical sets except for one piece??? Why do they massively change things no one asked for? These are good unique sets. These sets would die in PVE, maybe moved to PVP, and everyone in PVE would run around with Two Fanged. Ummmm, sounds like the days of every mag toon using TBS or BSW.

I hope this is a joke....

@ZOS_Finn @ZOS_Wrobel

ol_BANK_lo · April 2018

Not to mention, I am so tired of farming the crap out of sets, transumuting them, only to have them rendered useless by ZOS. Please, please explain to me the logic behind this. And ZOS wonders why people get burned out on their game.

Edziu · April 2018

Royaji wrote: »

Ok, so changing Alkosh is a bit of a no go since it takes the stam DD set from MoL. Unless as was mentioned by others we make Alkosh tanking set and change (read scrap and entirely replace) Lunar Bastion. This is not going to happen.

Alkosh is not a tanking set. It was never intended to be a tanking set. But it's pretty much a staple for tanking. Why? Because ZOS has no idea how to design tanking sets. Like, absolutely. None. Tanking meta is still stuck with the sets that are either not designed for tanks (NMG, SPC, Alkosh) or were base game sets (Ebon, Akaviri Dragonguard). Have you seen a tank run Lunar Bastion or Inventor's Guard? Any of the Yokeda sets? Ironblood? Imperium? Leeching? I don't even remeber the names of the tanking sets from Dragon Bones dungenons.

Every set ZOS designs for tanks is lackluster (Imeprium), designed for bad tanks (Eternal Yokeda) or only gives pure tankiness (Lunar Bastion). You don't need tanky sets to tank. Attacks are either one-shots or spaced out enoguh to heal through. Tanks want support sets. And Alkosh fits right into the giant support-sized hole in tanking gear.

So as I said, either they have no idea how to design tanking sets or deliberatly keep tanking sets without any support to reign in group damage (since DDs always cry much more louder if they get nerfed).

main problem with alkosh now its that as alkosh wasand still it? designed to be stam dd set , at start this set was great when proc sets was able to crit...yest that is it! alkosh was great set for dps until in critted but thenmonster proc sets with viper etc was to cancerous and op on pvp ZOS decided to take away crits from proc's which changed almost nothing on pvp and especially nothing on non-cp pvp
on pve with just monster sets also it didnt changed to much as only 2 pieces isnt to much and its always buff, but as to 5 piece set which is with some buff to group with great proc dot to utilize to be useful for self-dps taking away crit from this just killed this set for self-dps atleast
thats why almsot everyone want tanks to use this set as they dont need sacriface any dps from then

(while dont thinking how much for surviv etc they must sacriface for this bue hey! at all they still doing fine even with dps set on tank ye? lol)

while other stam dd can bring his own dps set to have it higher

so simple solution....or bring back crits only in alkosh proc dot as it all isnt to easy to use and effective on pvp or just replace with dot with anything which could be better to provide better dps for stamina like it is done in moondancer- or additional power for longer time or additional regen to be able use some more spammable skill instead of mindless boring to death heavy attack spam

Amdar_Godkiller · April 2018

Why don't we just make Sunderflame and NMG's 5 piece bonus give the entire a group a newly created major penetration buff on one and the minor buff on the other. Make them group utility sets that are slightly less powerful than they were, but still useful.

For instance

5 pc When you deal critical damage, grant your group Minor Opportunist, increasing their flat penetration by 1210 for 12 seconds

5 pc Your fully charged heavy attacks erupt envelop allies within 15 m granting them Major Opportunist, increasing physical penetration by 2420 for 10 seconds.

Makes so stamina can't quite get to the penetration cap without investing something into it, but don't have to decon two sets that they've likely golded and transmuted weapons for. That' the real rub here. Is there any class other than sorc that even lacks access to major fracture? It's turning something from arguably BIS to not even potentially useful to any build.

I'd prefer a complete rework of the 5 pc than to change it to Major fracture.

kringled_1 · April 2018

Templar also lacks class access to major fracture (although they have one of the only sources for minor fracture).

josiahva · April 2018

Valkyn_Eltrys wrote: »

If Alkosh is changed then Lunar Bastion has to be as well

I would love lunar bastion to actually be worth something...but the shields are bad considering you have to give up plague doctor to use it...your groups shields are buffed more by plague doctor than the lunar bastion proc provides.

Amdar_Godkiller · April 2018

kringled_1 wrote: »

Templar also lacks class access to major fracture (although they have one of the only sources for minor fracture).

Yeah that's right. The one class I don't have a stam character in is now the only class stam class that will be universally sought after. Oh well, PVP cheese builds it is for me going forward.

josiahva · April 2018

Royaji wrote: »

Ok, so changing Alkosh is a bit of a no go since it takes the stam DD set from MoL. Unless as was mentioned by others we make Alkosh tanking set and change (read scrap and entirely replace) Lunar Bastion. This is not going to happen.

Alkosh is not a tanking set. It was never intended to be a tanking set. But it's pretty much a staple for tanking. Why? Because ZOS has no idea how to design tanking sets. Like, absolutely. None. Tanking meta is still stuck with the sets that are either not designed for tanks (NMG, SPC, Alkosh) or were base game sets (Ebon, Akaviri Dragonguard). Have you seen a tank run Lunar Bastion or Inventor's Guard? Any of the Yokeda sets? Ironblood? Imperium? Leeching? I don't even remeber the names of the tanking sets from Dragon Bones dungenons.

Every set ZOS designs for tanks is lackluster (Imeprium), designed for bad tanks (Eternal Yokeda) or only gives pure tankiness (Lunar Bastion). You don't need tanky sets to tank. Attacks are either one-shots or spaced out enoguh to heal through. Tanks want support sets. And Alkosh fits right into the giant support-sized hole in tanking gear.

So as I said, either they have no idea how to design tanking sets or deliberatly keep tanking sets without any support to reign in group damage (since DDs always cry much more louder if they get nerfed).

I run Imperium, its a great set, better than Ebon by far...at least if your group is actually close enough to get the shield when it procs...though I admit it was far better before they reduced the shield duration to 6 seconds(which never should have happened since its a proc and not an ability like igneous)

Avran_Sylt · April 2018

Keep the NMG change as it allows any Stam class access to Major Fracture without needing to use a 1h+S in solo environments such as vMA. (Also makes it a great overland set for starting stam chars).

Rework the Sunderflame change into something entirely different.

I'm impartial towards Alkosh.

Kodrac · April 2018

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

And ZOS wonders why people get burned out on their game.

They do? I've yet to see anyone acknowledge that.

Aldmor13 · April 2018

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Keep the NMG change as it allows any Stam class access to Major Fracture without needing to use a 1h+S in solo environments such as vMA. (Also makes it a great overland set for starting stam chars).

Rework the Sunderflame change into something entirely different.

I'm impartial towards Alkosh.

This 100%.

Sunderflame drops in a group dungeon. PLEASE keep this set group frendly, even if the 5 piece is fully reworked.

Zagnut123Zagnut123 · April 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Please dps consider not going through with this atm otherwise we will go back to all mag raid groups. At it's current state raid teams are pretty balanced but this unnecessary change isn't needed and will create division.

I don´t find it balanced when a stamina specc can pull 10-15k more DPS than it´s magicka counterpart. Stamina DPS needs to be brought down so magicka melee´s have a change to be viable.

Just stamblade is pulling that much more atm really. Stam need to pull about 5k ish to justify its position in raid otherwise mag dps is just a better option with better cleave and better self survivability.

Zagnut123Zagnut123 · April 2018

StoicSunbro wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Please dps consider not going through with this atm otherwise we will go back to all mag raid groups. At it's current state raid teams are pretty balanced but this unnecessary change isn't needed and will create division.

I think you have a very real concern. I remember the Homestead days of 8 magsorc raids when caltrops did not stack.

Magicka already gets a great deal of Penetration passively from Light Armor. Sunder and NMG helped with the gap and then some. I'd like to see more DPS group buff sets like NMG and Sunder, not less.

I was there for that as well wich sucked alot

SaintSubwayy · April 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Please dps consider not going through with this atm otherwise we will go back to all mag raid groups. At it's current state raid teams are pretty balanced but this unnecessary change isn't needed and will create division.

I don´t find it balanced when a stamina specc can pull 10-15k more DPS than it´s magicka counterpart. Stamina DPS needs to be brought down so magicka melee´s have a change to be viable.

Only half of that it right...stam dps has to be brought down, however atm magicka meele deals less dmg than magicka ranged. So if stam is nerfed down to meele magicka lvls then noone will run meeles in their group at all.

Magicka meeles need to be brought up to ~3-5k more dps than ranged magickas. And staminas need to be brought down to this lvl.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2018

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Nmg and sunder nerfs (if they go through) will prob rek stamdps for trials completly.
Stamina lacks penetration and we had to sacrifice sets to get it, while magicka gets tons of pen for passives.

Dont change sunder and nmg or trils will become sorc / magblade only for the next meta

stamina literally has a weapon that gives you 10 or 20% penetration. it is like everyone forgot about mauls and maces. with sunder and NMG gone, mauls got a buff as far as i see.

Zagnut123Zagnut123 · April 2018

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Please dps consider not going through with this atm otherwise we will go back to all mag raid groups. At it's current state raid teams are pretty balanced but this unnecessary change isn't needed and will create division.

I don´t find it balanced when a stamina specc can pull 10-15k more DPS than it´s magicka counterpart. Stamina DPS needs to be brought down so magicka melee´s have a change to be viable.

Only half of that it right...stam dps has to be brought down, however atm magicka meele deals less dmg than magicka ranged. So if stam is nerfed down to meele magicka lvls then noone will run meeles in their group at all.

Magicka meeles need to be brought up to ~3-5k more dps than ranged magickas. And staminas need to be brought down to this lvl.

stamina still needs to persist over melee magika, otherwise melee has no place. zos should make unique mechanics which specific classes triumph over others and thus using one or two melee magika would benefit the grp

Maura_Neysa · April 2018

Would be interesting to see a Tank friendly Alkosh, however it is a DD set. Just happens to work well on a Tank.
As for Night and Sunder, a bit lame giving them the same 5 piece that is absolutly useless in PvE. On the other hand, its so easy for stam to hit Pen Cap that it really is crying over spilled milk losing those sets.

Zagnut123Zagnut123 · April 2018

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Would be interesting to see a Tank friendly Alkosh, however it is a DD set. Just happens to work well on a Tank.
As for Night and Sunder, a bit lame giving them the same 5 piece that is absolutly useless in PvE. On the other hand, its so easy for stam to hit Pen Cap that it really is crying over spilled milk losing those sets.

stam only hits pen cap with those sets, magika on the other hand only need alkosh crusher, maybe a stamplar and there good stamm needs all that and two sets plus extra cp to top it off so not so easy wen u compare to magika

Maura_Neysa · April 2018

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

Wow, this would be a tremendously stupid move on ZOS' part to make these changes to NMG and Sunder. What in the...? Stamina in trials is all about working off each other. NMG, Sunder, War Machine, etc are all used to compliment each other. Now you will have two identical sets except for one piece??? Why do they massively change things no one asked for? These are good unique sets. These sets would die in PVE, maybe moved to PVP, and everyone in PVE would run around with Two Fanged. Ummmm, sounds like the days of every mag toon using TBS or BSW.

I hope this is a joke....

@ZOS_Finn @ZOS_Wrobel

Its not a joke, its from what was release by the 12 testers. They said as much to ZoS and said that ZoS seem pretty receptive to their feed back. No guarantees though about which direction it goes.
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/89e1in/summerset_update_18_teaser_a_recap_of_last_weeks

Maura_Neysa · April 2018

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Would be interesting to see a Tank friendly Alkosh, however it is a DD set. Just happens to work well on a Tank.
As for Night and Sunder, a bit lame giving them the same 5 piece that is absolutly useless in PvE. On the other hand, its so easy for stam to hit Pen Cap that it really is crying over spilled milk losing those sets.

stam only hits pen cap with those sets, magika on the other hand only need alkosh crusher, maybe a stamplar and there good stamm needs all that and two sets plus extra cp to top it off so not so easy wen u compare to magika

Because TFS and Spriggons don't exist. Everyone running VO + TFS was the Meta a year ago. With only the Tanks Alkosh adding to group Pysical Pen. Not to mention the fact that Stam out performs Mag by 5k DPS easily right now. Do you really think ZoS plan was for Stam to out peform Mag?

Totally forgot about this, but its completely true too.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Nmg and sunder nerfs (if they go through) will prob rek stamdps for trials completly.
Stamina lacks penetration and we had to sacrifice sets to get it, while magicka gets tons of pen for passives.

Dont change sunder and nmg or trils will become sorc / magblade only for the next meta

stamina literally has a weapon that gives you 10 or 20% penetration. it is like everyone forgot about mauls and maces. with sunder and NMG gone, mauls got a buff as far as i see.

Zagnut123Zagnut123 · April 2018

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Would be interesting to see a Tank friendly Alkosh, however it is a DD set. Just happens to work well on a Tank.
As for Night and Sunder, a bit lame giving them the same 5 piece that is absolutly useless in PvE. On the other hand, its so easy for stam to hit Pen Cap that it really is crying over spilled milk losing those sets.

stam only hits pen cap with those sets, magika on the other hand only need alkosh crusher, maybe a stamplar and there good stamm needs all that and two sets plus extra cp to top it off so not so easy wen u compare to magika

Because TFS and Spriggons don't exist. Everyone running VO + TFS was the Meta a year ago. With only the Tanks Alkosh adding to group Pysical Pen. Not to mention the fact that Stam out performs Mag by 5k DPS easily right now. Do you really think ZoS plan was for Stam to out peform Mag?

Totally forgot about this, but its completely true too.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Nmg and sunder nerfs (if they go through) will prob rek stamdps for trials completly.
Stamina lacks penetration and we had to sacrifice sets to get it, while magicka gets tons of pen for passives.

Dont change sunder and nmg or trils will become sorc / magblade only for the next meta

stamina literally has a weapon that gives you 10 or 20% penetration. it is like everyone forgot about mauls and maces. with sunder and NMG gone, mauls got a buff as far as i see.

I don't think you know what the meta was back then please try again. stam additionally outperforms way more then that which makes me believe you don't really know what you are even talking about, more like 15k in an optimal setting. I'm not defending this gross disparity in dps but I do defend that the only way stam will continue to exist in raid is with these current sets existing (and stam needs to pull slightly higher damage to defend its position in a raid). what they need to do is nerf stamblades pve dps potential because as it is now all other stam classes are on par with what they should be hitting to not make them too OP. I'm sure if they decide to go through with the changes there will be a few stamm ppl that will prevail but most convert to magika once again (like the homestead patch) to maintain relevancy. wanting to nerf stam to point they pull equal or less then magika removes them from any and all competitive raiding. as it stands now magika and stamina both raid in equal numbers for the most part (excluding vas hm)

GiuEliN0 · April 2018

But, waiting for the PTS patch notes drop instead already starting with threads like this?

Maura_Neysa · April 2018

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Would be interesting to see a Tank friendly Alkosh, however it is a DD set. Just happens to work well on a Tank.
As for Night and Sunder, a bit lame giving them the same 5 piece that is absolutly useless in PvE. On the other hand, its so easy for stam to hit Pen Cap that it really is crying over spilled milk losing those sets.

stam only hits pen cap with those sets, magika on the other hand only need alkosh crusher, maybe a stamplar and there good stamm needs all that and two sets plus extra cp to top it off so not so easy wen u compare to magika

Because TFS and Spriggons don't exist. Everyone running VO + TFS was the Meta a year ago. With only the Tanks Alkosh adding to group Pysical Pen. Not to mention the fact that Stam out performs Mag by 5k DPS easily right now. Do you really think ZoS plan was for Stam to out peform Mag?

Totally forgot about this, but its completely true too.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Nmg and sunder nerfs (if they go through) will prob rek stamdps for trials completly.
Stamina lacks penetration and we had to sacrifice sets to get it, while magicka gets tons of pen for passives.

Dont change sunder and nmg or trils will become sorc / magblade only for the next meta

stamina literally has a weapon that gives you 10 or 20% penetration. it is like everyone forgot about mauls and maces. with sunder and NMG gone, mauls got a buff as far as i see.

I don't think you know what the meta was back then please try again. stam additionally outperforms way more then that which makes me believe you don't really know what you are even talking about, more like 15k in an optimal setting. I'm not defending this gross disparity in dps but I do defend that the only way stam will continue to exist in raid is with these current sets existing (and stam needs to pull slightly higher damage to defend its position in a raid). what they need to do is nerf stamblades pve dps potential because as it is now all other stam classes are on par with what they should be hitting to not make them too OP. I'm sure if they decide to go through with the changes there will be a few stamm ppl that will prevail but most convert to magika once again (like the homestead patch) to maintain relevancy. wanting to nerf stam to point they pull equal or less then magika removes them from any and all competitive raiding. as it stands now magika and stamina both raid in equal numbers for the most part (excluding vas hm)

- I may have the exact dates wrong, but I dont have the Fing endless request to come tank Sanctum for VO and TFS daggers wrong.
- Your 15k is from group Parse numbers, my 5k is from solo Parse numbers. Really though this is what it looks like solo; Stamblade 52k, Stamwarden 49k, StamDK 47k, Magblade 44k, Magsorc/Stamplar 43k, Magplar 41k, Stamsorc 40k, MagDK/Magwarden 38k. At least as best as I can find. I personally cant hit any of those numbers, then again Tanks dont need to.
- Considering Mag are "Higher survivablity" while every one of them slots Harness Magicka and yet ever Stam gets crapped on if they have Vigor (Crit Surge) or anything more then Deadly Cloak, who's fault is that?
- Yes Meta Chasers will in fact chase meta the only reason there aren't currently all Stamina, is because there simply isn't room. They would all nuke each other. If 2x Bow pulled the same numbers as DW&Bow then everyone would be stamina.

Zagnut123Zagnut123 · April 2018

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Would be interesting to see a Tank friendly Alkosh, however it is a DD set. Just happens to work well on a Tank.
As for Night and Sunder, a bit lame giving them the same 5 piece that is absolutly useless in PvE. On the other hand, its so easy for stam to hit Pen Cap that it really is crying over spilled milk losing those sets.

stam only hits pen cap with those sets, magika on the other hand only need alkosh crusher, maybe a stamplar and there good stamm needs all that and two sets plus extra cp to top it off so not so easy wen u compare to magika

Because TFS and Spriggons don't exist. Everyone running VO + TFS was the Meta a year ago. With only the Tanks Alkosh adding to group Pysical Pen. Not to mention the fact that Stam out performs Mag by 5k DPS easily right now. Do you really think ZoS plan was for Stam to out peform Mag?

Totally forgot about this, but its completely true too.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Nmg and sunder nerfs (if they go through) will prob rek stamdps for trials completly.
Stamina lacks penetration and we had to sacrifice sets to get it, while magicka gets tons of pen for passives.

Dont change sunder and nmg or trils will become sorc / magblade only for the next meta

stamina literally has a weapon that gives you 10 or 20% penetration. it is like everyone forgot about mauls and maces. with sunder and NMG gone, mauls got a buff as far as i see.

I don't think you know what the meta was back then please try again. stam additionally outperforms way more then that which makes me believe you don't really know what you are even talking about, more like 15k in an optimal setting. I'm not defending this gross disparity in dps but I do defend that the only way stam will continue to exist in raid is with these current sets existing (and stam needs to pull slightly higher damage to defend its position in a raid). what they need to do is nerf stamblades pve dps potential because as it is now all other stam classes are on par with what they should be hitting to not make them too OP. I'm sure if they decide to go through with the changes there will be a few stamm ppl that will prevail but most convert to magika once again (like the homestead patch) to maintain relevancy. wanting to nerf stam to point they pull equal or less then magika removes them from any and all competitive raiding. as it stands now magika and stamina both raid in equal numbers for the most part (excluding vas hm)

- I may have the exact dates wrong, but I dont have the Fing endless request to come tank Sanctum for VO and TFS daggers wrong.
- Your 15k is from group Parse numbers, my 5k is from solo Parse numbers. Really though this is what it looks like solo; Stamblade 52k, Stamwarden 49k, StamDK 47k, Magblade 44k, Magsorc/Stamplar 43k, Magplar 41k, Stamsorc 40k, MagDK/Magwarden 38k. At least as best as I can find. I personally cant hit any of those numbers, then again Tanks dont need to.
- Considering Mag are "Higher survivablity" while every one of them slots Harness Magicka and yet ever Stam gets crapped on if they have Vigor (Crit Surge) or anything more then Deadly Cloak, who's fault is that?
- Yes Meta Chasers will in fact chase meta the only reason there aren't currently all Stamina, is because there simply isn't room. They would all nuke each other. If 2x Bow pulled the same numbers as DW&Bow then everyone would be stamina.

Just because ppl asked u to run for tfs and vo doesn't mean it was his or meta. The only ppl that ran that are in organised folks that didn't realise using debuff setups was fare superior. The example parses your using are extremely embellished and or cheesed. Additionally the only thing that matters is raid performance if x performs better then x will be used if y is as good but and has better survivability then I'm taking y in my grp plain and simple. Magika have better cleave damage better survivability and can be range or melee in the blink of an eye. Stam has to stay on target and is dependent on its healers (vigor can only heal so much). If your competitive at raiding and you have a choice of stam or mag and both pull the same numbers you'll use mag hands down. I don't think you can easily empathize with this as it sounds like you main a tank not dps. I play all types of dps so no matter what I'll be fine post patch but thismag is at a disadvantage nonsence is well just nonsence. You pull a number one score off any leader boards from the last year that has all stam dps in it and maybe I'll sit and listen to you. Until then...

aeowulf · April 2018

New patch, new meta.

Alkosh was probably forgotten and will probably get the same treament now it's being shouted about. But it is a trial set, so it should be better than a crafted.

I also don't like that classes are shoved into a 'you must wear this' set thing, and really hope that'll change over time - i don't see how though as some sets are just rubbish.

Edziu · April 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Nmg and sunder nerfs (if they go through) will prob rek stamdps for trials completly.
Stamina lacks penetration and we had to sacrifice sets to get it, while magicka gets tons of pen for passives.

Dont change sunder and nmg or trils will become sorc / magblade only for the next meta

stamina literally has a weapon that gives you 10 or 20% penetration. it is like everyone forgot about mauls and maces. with sunder and NMG gone, mauls got a buff as far as i see.

and @Maura_Neysa

problemw ith this weapon this penetrations is comming only after every other armor reduction like just major fracture, youre penetration from cp, sets etc.....when boss have this 18k resist I see you think maces are ignoring flat 20% armor from this so it is 3.6k penetration for you ( I dont think you have even played stamina as you dont know how maces work)
but in practice its:
18.2k > major fracture -5.2k resists reduced = 13k > alkosh -3k = 10k > crusher enchant -1.6k = 8.4k and here we will take 20% armor ignore from mace wchich will be less thn 1.7k additional penetration

btw not included even cp for some additional penetration and optional 1.5k from kragh which will make even less effective mace and didnt included nmg with sunderflame as this is example for "very useful maces" penetration after nefrs to nmg with sunderflame

will you equip dual maces just to get pathetic additional maybe 1.5k - 1.7k penetration replacing by this 5-10% for crit with/or additional bleed from axes? I dont think even additional 2k penetration will be worth for this price