If you play the Dragon Knight class and hoped for better changes in Summerset... Well abandon ship.

SaintSubwayy · April 2018

BohnT wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
My Stam DK is the one who's almost a warlord... So I play my Stam DK more. I don't really see a good PvP stam DK relying on major mending after the changes to earthen hearts' helping hands anymore. I use to run it but stopped after knowing I'd kill nearly 50% of my Mag resources just to get a dismal return in stamina and a 3 second (Use to be 5 when that change was done to helping hands I believe) major mending.

Well dk mains complained about major mending nerf and now zos giving it back to them. You guys should be grateful because as a stamsorc main I have YET to see a single buff to my class. Stamsorc is literally at the lowest of the foodchain in pvp, yet we got no buff in this patch or last patch, or this upcoming patch. Even stamplars got no buff. How many buff stamsorc threads have you seen?

Stamsorc on the end of the food chain? Is it possible that you abuse painkillers?
Stamsorc turned into a complete beast with the last patch. You can run full damage builds and fully sustain via DD and no one can stop you from spamming it.
Saying you got no buff is laughable, stamsorc got a huge buff with the off balance changes, Steel tornado being undodgeable and the biggest buff was Interrupt changes.

There is no way a stamsorc loses in any category vs a stamdk. You have more pressure, more damage, more sustain, better mobility etc.

Stamsorcs are at the lowest position in the foodchain though. I don't see that many stamsorcs in cyrodill. Can you explain to me? And no, I've tried running a full dmg build with 800 regen. It does not work, period. The moment you get swamped and you can't dark deal, you're done for. If you rely on dark deal for sustain, then you're only good in groups where you can rely on your teammate. In solo it's horrible. Steel tornado and interrupt change is not a sorc buff. It's an indirect buff yea, but other classes also benefit. Give me one direct buff that stamsorc has and we can start discussing.

I defenitly works. On Pc EU there are several stamsorcs who all utilise those high damage builds with the only sustain via DD. With your mobility you can always prevent yourself from getting swarmed anything else is player error.
Interrupt changes, off balance changes with the upcoming changes: Bound armor, and the new sustain passive are huge buffs.

Other classes can get the same mobility. They only miss out of 10% minor expedition but that's miniscule if you run medium armor. Again, try 800 regen with dark deal as your only sustain when you fight 5+ people. It does not work lol. Sorcs are forced to use certain builds, but those builds are outperformed by other classes. Kodi who is a toptier PvPer and a well known streamer even said it himself. They are shadowed by other classes.

No other classes don't have access to streak or hurricane. It works wonderful especially in towers it defenitly works, it works on Pc EU if it works there it'll work anywhere else and even better.
Which other classes outperform stamsorc?
Stamdk? Not at all
Stamwarden? Yes because that thing is completely broken
Stamnb? Only outperformed in solo play for groups stamsorc is much better
Stamplar? Even match for the most part
Magdk? Even match in groups SS wins in solo play
Magplar? Better in groups worse in solo
Magwarden? Even match in groups, SS wins solo wise
Magnb? Magnb wins
Magsorc? Even match throughout all encounters

They're at the bottom of the stam foodchain. I forgot to say stam. stamdks are a lot tankier than stamsorcs, and they have a lot more healing.

Okay I'm out. That's it i give up you can simply not discuss with people who think stamdk has anything going for it.
The healing is worse especially when you compare it to the heals of the current stamsorc meta:
Stamsorc has vigor, rally/FM, surge and DD as healing skills also they feature much higher weapon damage in viable builds as they can completely ignore sustain with the current meta builds
Stamdk has vigor and Rally/FM + battle roar + major mending and the 12% healing from Passives. Battle roar heals for less than DD and isn't used as often, vigor and Rally tick for less as the DK has to build for sustain and surge completely overshades the healing bonuses of DK.
We also haven't covered the other things, stamsorc is more mobile meaning it eats much less damage while DK has weak mobility and eats more damage.
So in the end you have worse healing and take more damage as a Stamdk. And this is how it works in OW cyro, in 1vX or small scale. A dk that can survive as long as a stamsorc has much less damage or sustain than a stamsorc.

You also forgot that the DW aorc prob will use bloodcraze, adding another 400-600hps

StaticWave · April 2018

BohnT wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
My Stam DK is the one who's almost a warlord... So I play my Stam DK more. I don't really see a good PvP stam DK relying on major mending after the changes to earthen hearts' helping hands anymore. I use to run it but stopped after knowing I'd kill nearly 50% of my Mag resources just to get a dismal return in stamina and a 3 second (Use to be 5 when that change was done to helping hands I believe) major mending.

Well dk mains complained about major mending nerf and now zos giving it back to them. You guys should be grateful because as a stamsorc main I have YET to see a single buff to my class. Stamsorc is literally at the lowest of the foodchain in pvp, yet we got no buff in this patch or last patch, or this upcoming patch. Even stamplars got no buff. How many buff stamsorc threads have you seen?

Stamsorc on the end of the food chain? Is it possible that you abuse painkillers?
Stamsorc turned into a complete beast with the last patch. You can run full damage builds and fully sustain via DD and no one can stop you from spamming it.
Saying you got no buff is laughable, stamsorc got a huge buff with the off balance changes, Steel tornado being undodgeable and the biggest buff was Interrupt changes.

There is no way a stamsorc loses in any category vs a stamdk. You have more pressure, more damage, more sustain, better mobility etc.

Stamsorcs are at the lowest position in the foodchain though. I don't see that many stamsorcs in cyrodill. Can you explain to me? And no, I've tried running a full dmg build with 800 regen. It does not work, period. The moment you get swamped and you can't dark deal, you're done for. If you rely on dark deal for sustain, then you're only good in groups where you can rely on your teammate. In solo it's horrible. Steel tornado and interrupt change is not a sorc buff. It's an indirect buff yea, but other classes also benefit. Give me one direct buff that stamsorc has and we can start discussing.

I defenitly works. On Pc EU there are several stamsorcs who all utilise those high damage builds with the only sustain via DD. With your mobility you can always prevent yourself from getting swarmed anything else is player error.
Interrupt changes, off balance changes with the upcoming changes: Bound armor, and the new sustain passive are huge buffs.

Other classes can get the same mobility. They only miss out of 10% minor expedition but that's miniscule if you run medium armor. Again, try 800 regen with dark deal as your only sustain when you fight 5+ people. It does not work lol. Sorcs are forced to use certain builds, but those builds are outperformed by other classes. Kodi who is a toptier PvPer and a well known streamer even said it himself. They are shadowed by other classes.

No other classes don't have access to streak or hurricane. It works wonderful especially in towers it defenitly works, it works on Pc EU if it works there it'll work anywhere else and even better.
Which other classes outperform stamsorc?
Stamdk? Not at all
Stamwarden? Yes because that thing is completely broken
Stamnb? Only outperformed in solo play for groups stamsorc is much better
Stamplar? Even match for the most part
Magdk? Even match in groups SS wins in solo play
Magplar? Better in groups worse in solo
Magwarden? Even match in groups, SS wins solo wise
Magnb? Magnb wins
Magsorc? Even match throughout all encounters

They're at the bottom of the stam foodchain. I forgot to say stam. stamdks are a lot tankier than stamsorcs, and they have a lot more healing.

Okay I'm out. That's it i give up you can simply not discuss with people who think stamdk has anything going for it.
The healing is worse especially when you compare it to the heals of the current stamsorc meta:
Stamsorc has vigor, rally/FM, surge and DD as healing skills also they feature much higher weapon damage in viable builds as they can completely ignore sustain with the current meta builds
Stamdk has vigor and Rally/FM + battle roar + major mending and the 12% healing from Passives. Battle roar heals for less than DD and isn't used as often, vigor and Rally tick for less as the DK has to build for sustain and surge completely overshades the healing bonuses of DK.
We also haven't covered the other things, stamsorc is more mobile meaning it eats much less damage while DK has weak mobility and eats more damage.
So in the end you have worse healing and take more damage as a Stamdk. And this is how it works in OW cyro, in 1vX or small scale. A dk that can survive as long as a stamsorc has much less damage or sustain than a stamsorc.

Yes i know that. But stamdks have major mending, which I will trade everything I have for that buff. You can't ignore sustain. I've already said 3 times that you can't count on dark deal as your main source of sustain because it does not work in outnumbered situations. There's a reason you don't see that many sorcs in cyrodill anymore. You are forced to run dw/2h to stay competitive, or you are severely handicapped because any class can perform better with the same build a stamsorc uses.

StaticWave · April 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
What makes DKs more 'tankier' than the next class... please do not even mention the 10% block passive as they plays out by taking into account your resistances, your buffs, then applies the 10% on the calculated cost of the two. Example: 20k Damage divided by Resistance + buff multiplied by 10% = the outcome of what 10% really is.

They are tanky in the sense that they can turtle up and heal to full with mending. Also in the sense that major mending helps tremendously when you're defiled, where as on a sorc if you get defiled you're done for

StaticWave · April 2018

@BohnT @ak_pvp May I ask what server and platform you play on?

MaxwellC · April 2018

@StaticWave
That isn't a valid argument for why Stam DKs are more 'tankier' unless you think magicka resources are infinite instead of finite. Sure let me spam my igneous shield or fragmented shield for a max of 5 seconds major mending up time.
I can even slap down that argument with the vitality/HoT potions that were introduced back when dark brotherhood dropped.

Mate @BohnT whom we've had extensive disagreement with and @ak_pvp were both correct in how they stated who was superior in PvP. You saying you would trade anything for major mending in PvP shows me you do not regularly play the DK class because that isn't the thing you need the most when you can supplement that with a potion that lasts 15 seconds + heals you over time for 40 seconds and it doesn't cost me nearly 4.1k magicka to use.

Grevaris_Elluin · April 2018

StaticWave wrote: »

@BohnT @ak_pvp May I ask what server and platform you play on?

PC/EU.

Also, I would like to know why you think that maj mending is so good, yes I use it on my StamDK, but I would trade it for a heartbeat for surge. 25% on like a 1.2k vigor tick and a 5/600~ FM tick every 2s isn't that much. That is for 4k mag. The passives what help feed into it, are a little more useful, but still, not great. In about 5s, 2k health is roughly what I get extra for using igneous GCD. Surge outdoes that.

Ragnarock41 · April 2018

StaticWave wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
What makes DKs more 'tankier' than the next class... please do not even mention the 10% block passive as they plays out by taking into account your resistances, your buffs, then applies the 10% on the calculated cost of the two. Example: 20k Damage divided by Resistance + buff multiplied by 10% = the outcome of what 10% really is.

They are tanky in the sense that they can turtle up and heal to full with mending. Also in the sense that major mending helps tremendously when you're defiled, where as on a sorc if you get defiled you're done for

You keep mentioning how strong mending is and how weak sorcs are over and over again.

If you value mending that much and mobility is that meaningless in your eyes, you should maybe play a sDK.

StaticWave wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
I can 1vX I'll message you my profile so you can see me, I'm not too bad but not the greatest.
Also again I'm complaining about fragmented shield because I don't want half measured they should return igneous shields major mending and make fragmented shield something worth choosing major mending over. Simply increasing the duration on another morph IMO was laziness.

If you want you can post a vid, but that is not what this thread is about.

Fragmented shields is a buff to stamdks. Not everyone plays a magdk like you

Fragmented shields will be an awesome skill for Stam DKs and likely very strong for DK Healers, which will finally be a thing in Summerset.

The only worry I have is how the stacking of shields will be handled between a DK Tank and a DK Healer.

Its basically the old igneous shields, -1 second duration. The only difference is that we now will have easier time with magicka sustain, which is helpful. but does not change much really. stamDks number 1 issue is having way too low kill potential, which remains as an issue in my opinion.

They're a lot closer to stamdks pre-nerf, which were too strong. This buff will hopefully make stamdks stronger than their curent state, but not unkillable strong pre-nerf

StamDK pre-nerf had ;
roughly 2x/3x stronger constution(with black rose meta),allowing not only more blockcasting but also better magicka sustain.
6 seconds of major mending instead of 3.
roughly double stam return from adrenaline rush
much lower skill costs, allowing easier blockcasting.
battle roar that scaled with maximum stamina, and overall much bigger stamina returns.
helping hands that also scaled with max stam, used to provide much more stamina.
2x less block cost.

All these things changed in one patch and ultimately destroyed stamDk identity. Following removal to wrath, removal of shuffle from HA, thief mundus nerf+vMA WD removal resulting in stamDK ending up with less crit than optimal, sharpened nerf making it hard for stamDK to have good damage, all had a big effect making the class useless as a bruiser.

Obviously some of these changes are indirect ones, but I'm listing what a stamDk cares about, and I'm ignoring the other changes because they are not related.The issue is that ZOS wants you to build for sustain but there is no way to build stam regen on a class that is supposed to block a lot. There is no point to build stam regen when you're blocking anyways. But the sustain is so bad that you build absurdly high stam regen anyways.This is why stamDK ends up with inferior stats compared to stamsorcs, yet they still sustain worse than them. IF this class wants any competitivess back, the scaling on passives needs to be back.

If you do believe stamDk will be anything close to what it was pre-morrowind, don't worry. This class will never see competitive play again. I'm certain at this point. Maybe some minor dueling success in the hands of very good players.

in the end of the day, sDK is a class that is mainly played for solo and small scale. It never was and never will be good in group play. But even for small scale it is no longer considered a good pick anymore, and zos comes up to me with 2 seconds more mending, while magDK gets all these new toys, I can't help but feel despressed, as I am well aware magDK will completely outshadow its stamina variant.

BohnT · April 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

@BohnT @ak_pvp May I ask what server and platform you play on?

PC/EU

Same

SaintSubwayy · April 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
That isn't a valid argument for why Stam DKs are more 'tankier' unless you think magicka resources are infinite instead of finite. Sure let me spam my igneous shield or fragmented shield for a max of 5 seconds major mending up time.
I can even slap down that argument with the vitality/HoT potions that were introduced back when dark brotherhood dropped.

Mate @BohnT whom we've had extensive disagreement with and @ak_pvp were both correct in how they stated who was superior in PvP. You saying you would trade anything for major mending in PvP shows me you do not regularly play the DK class because that isn't the thing you need the most when you can supplement that with a potion that lasts 15 seconds + heals you over time for 40 seconds and it doesn't cost me nearly 4.1k magicka to use.

I have to agree that the major mending is nice, but those 12% healing arent nearly close to 3k /sec from surge (even is you get defiled surge heals more than those 12% on vigor and rally.

Stamdk lacks quite alot, I still play him but compared to stamsorcs or stamplars I nearly always get bleeded out over time. Unless they are super bad ofc. The defile meta really overpowers the 12% from major mending. And with no strong shields to outshield bleeds on a stamina build you nearly always tip to bleedbuilds, unless you have a 1k /s healing potion rdy, but if you use this you loose your source of CC immunity which puts you ingo a loose loose situation. Bleed to death or try and survive with the pot to be CC by a dawnbreaker or streak to eat 1 or 2 executes and die anyways.

StaticWave · April 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
That isn't a valid argument for why Stam DKs are more 'tankier' unless you think magicka resources are infinite instead of finite. Sure let me spam my igneous shield or fragmented shield for a max of 5 seconds major mending up time.
I can even slap down that argument with the vitality/HoT potions that were introduced back when dark brotherhood dropped.

Mate @BohnT whom we've had extensive disagreement with and @ak_pvp were both correct in how they stated who was superior in PvP. You saying you would trade anything for major mending in PvP shows me you do not regularly play the DK class because that isn't the thing you need the most when you can supplement that with a potion that lasts 15 seconds + heals you over time for 40 seconds and it doesn't cost me nearly 4.1k magicka to use.

Yea they are. You can turtle up with block and heal up with major mending . I've dueled enough good dks to see how effective it is. You can't do that with a stamsorc. Dark deal requires you to run away and cast but good players can interrupt it easily if they have a gap closer. crit surge requires you to do damage to heal.

So? I play with one of the best PvPers in NA PC. Even Kodi admitted that whatever stamsorc uses, other classes can do it better. If you regularly watches his stream you'll know how good of a player he is. You don't run vitality pots in openworld if you want to survive. Speed immovables is what most stamina classes use.

StaticWave · April 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
What makes DKs more 'tankier' than the next class... please do not even mention the 10% block passive as they plays out by taking into account your resistances, your buffs, then applies the 10% on the calculated cost of the two. Example: 20k Damage divided by Resistance + buff multiplied by 10% = the outcome of what 10% really is.

They are tanky in the sense that they can turtle up and heal to full with mending. Also in the sense that major mending helps tremendously when you're defiled, where as on a sorc if you get defiled you're done for

You keep mentioning how strong mending is and how weak sorcs are over and over again.

If you value mending that much and mobility is that meaningless in your eyes, you should maybe play a sDK.

StaticWave wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
I can 1vX I'll message you my profile so you can see me, I'm not too bad but not the greatest.
Also again I'm complaining about fragmented shield because I don't want half measured they should return igneous shields major mending and make fragmented shield something worth choosing major mending over. Simply increasing the duration on another morph IMO was laziness.

If you want you can post a vid, but that is not what this thread is about.

Fragmented shields is a buff to stamdks. Not everyone plays a magdk like you

Fragmented shields will be an awesome skill for Stam DKs and likely very strong for DK Healers, which will finally be a thing in Summerset.

The only worry I have is how the stacking of shields will be handled between a DK Tank and a DK Healer.

Its basically the old igneous shields, -1 second duration. The only difference is that we now will have easier time with magicka sustain, which is helpful. but does not change much really. stamDks number 1 issue is having way too low kill potential, which remains as an issue in my opinion.

They're a lot closer to stamdks pre-nerf, which were too strong. This buff will hopefully make stamdks stronger than their curent state, but not unkillable strong pre-nerf

StamDK pre-nerf had ;
roughly 2x/3x stronger constution(with black rose meta),allowing not only more blockcasting but also better magicka sustain.
6 seconds of major mending instead of 3.
roughly double stam return from adrenaline rush
much lower skill costs, allowing easier blockcasting.
battle roar that scaled with maximum stamina, and overall much bigger stamina returns.
helping hands that also scaled with max stam, used to provide much more stamina.
2x less block cost.

All these things changed in one patch and ultimately destroyed stamDk identity.

If you do believe stamDk will be anything close to what it was pre-morrowind, don't worry. This class will never see competitive play again. I'm certain at this point.

1/Constitution nerf impacted all heavy armor builds, not just stamdks.
2/ this upcoming patch will give dks 5s of major mending. This is 1s short of pre-nerf, but that should be enough to make them strong.
3/sustain nerf was across the board, not just for dks.
4/ Pre-nerf Dks were too strong. Good players were unkillable. Now good players are killable, but mediocre players who rode the bandwagon got weeded out.
5/ I don't believe stamdks will be close to their previous state, nor do I want to. I don't want to see stamdks taking up half of stamina classes in cyrodill.
6/Good stam dk mains who stuck with the class still slay. Bad stamdks won't.

MaxwellC · April 2018

@StaticWave
Mate there is no turtle up game-play for a Stam DK in Open world combat, so just stop with that nonsense. Major mending lasts 3 seconds prior to nerfs it lasts 6 seconds like cool that will help me when it comes to fighting multiple targets... oh wait.
You put this 'good dks' as if eluding that I'm somewhat bad but mate I've sent you a video and most show me 1vX by myself no help from a friend.

I could care-less what a streamer says and just because they stream doesn't certainly mean they're the best player in that class role, it just means they daily show that they can preform while others don't stream or consistently put out videos showing us do X.
Lastly you can as I do sometimes run vitality potions in OW and they do indeed work wonders since they can keep my health up with combined heals from rally/vigor as I take a lot of damage when fighting multiple targets.

BohnT · April 2018

StaticWave wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
What makes DKs more 'tankier' than the next class... please do not even mention the 10% block passive as they plays out by taking into account your resistances, your buffs, then applies the 10% on the calculated cost of the two. Example: 20k Damage divided by Resistance + buff multiplied by 10% = the outcome of what 10% really is.

They are tanky in the sense that they can turtle up and heal to full with mending. Also in the sense that major mending helps tremendously when you're defiled, where as on a sorc if you get defiled you're done for

You keep mentioning how strong mending is and how weak sorcs are over and over again.

If you value mending that much and mobility is that meaningless in your eyes, you should maybe play a sDK.

StaticWave wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
I can 1vX I'll message you my profile so you can see me, I'm not too bad but not the greatest.
Also again I'm complaining about fragmented shield because I don't want half measured they should return igneous shields major mending and make fragmented shield something worth choosing major mending over. Simply increasing the duration on another morph IMO was laziness.

If you want you can post a vid, but that is not what this thread is about.

Fragmented shields is a buff to stamdks. Not everyone plays a magdk like you

Fragmented shields will be an awesome skill for Stam DKs and likely very strong for DK Healers, which will finally be a thing in Summerset.

The only worry I have is how the stacking of shields will be handled between a DK Tank and a DK Healer.

Its basically the old igneous shields, -1 second duration. The only difference is that we now will have easier time with magicka sustain, which is helpful. but does not change much really. stamDks number 1 issue is having way too low kill potential, which remains as an issue in my opinion.

They're a lot closer to stamdks pre-nerf, which were too strong. This buff will hopefully make stamdks stronger than their curent state, but not unkillable strong pre-nerf

StamDK pre-nerf had ;
roughly 2x/3x stronger constution(with black rose meta),allowing not only more blockcasting but also better magicka sustain.
6 seconds of major mending instead of 3.
roughly double stam return from adrenaline rush
much lower skill costs, allowing easier blockcasting.
battle roar that scaled with maximum stamina, and overall much bigger stamina returns.
helping hands that also scaled with max stam, used to provide much more stamina.
2x less block cost.

All these things changed in one patch and ultimately destroyed stamDk identity.

If you do believe stamDk will be anything close to what it was pre-morrowind, don't worry. This class will never see competitive play again. I'm certain at this point.

1/Constitution nerf impacted all heavy armor builds, not just stamdks.
2/ this upcoming patch will give dks 5s of major mending. This is 1s short of pre-nerf, but that should be enough to make them strong.
3/sustain nerf was across the board, not just for dks.
4/ Pre-nerf Dks were too strong. Good players were unkillable. Now good players are killable, but mediocre players who rode the bandwagon got weeded out.
5/ I don't believe stamdks will be close to their previous state, nor do I want to. I don't want to see stamdks taking up half of stamina classes in cyrodill.
6/Good stam dk mains who stuck with the class still slay. Bad stamdks won't.

Nr 6 is just wrong. All good stamdks on Pc EU stopped playing stamdk because it's completely outclassed by everything else. Also the number of stamdks in Cyro is like 3, 1 good nostalgic stamdk main and 2 people who haven't heard of weaving, sets or competitive play.

StaticWave · April 2018

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
That isn't a valid argument for why Stam DKs are more 'tankier' unless you think magicka resources are infinite instead of finite. Sure let me spam my igneous shield or fragmented shield for a max of 5 seconds major mending up time.
I can even slap down that argument with the vitality/HoT potions that were introduced back when dark brotherhood dropped.

Mate @BohnT whom we've had extensive disagreement with and @ak_pvp were both correct in how they stated who was superior in PvP. You saying you would trade anything for major mending in PvP shows me you do not regularly play the DK class because that isn't the thing you need the most when you can supplement that with a potion that lasts 15 seconds + heals you over time for 40 seconds and it doesn't cost me nearly 4.1k magicka to use.

I have to agree that the major mending is nice, but those 12% healing arent nearly close to 3k /sec from surge (even is you get defiled surge heals more than those 12% on vigor and rally.

Stamdk lacks quite alot, I still play him but compared to stamsorcs or stamplars I nearly always get bleeded out over time. Unless they are super bad ofc. The defile meta really overpowers the 12% from major mending. And with no strong shields to outshield bleeds on a stamina build you nearly always tip to bleedbuilds, unless you have a 1k /s healing potion rdy, but if you use this you loose your source of CC immunity which puts you ingo a loose loose situation. Bleed to death or try and survive with the pot to be CC by a dawnbreaker or streak to eat 1 or 2 executes and die anyways.

It's about 1.5s with surge since healing is halfed in cyrodill. Also major mending gives you 25% more healing, not 12%.

Defile and bleed meta is strong, but that doesn't make stamdks weaker than stamsorcs. When they defile you, assuming they don't have points into befoul, you can somewhat counter that defile with major mending, so you only take 5% less healing. Stamsorcs don't have that luxury. I do agree they need to nerf defile and bleeds.

Aedaryl · April 2018

I think dk tears will never end.

Why DK is not a water based class really ?

No dk will not be deadra killing everything that live in tamriel with lava with some meteors mounted by flying dks.

You guys should wait PTS launch for that river of tears.

The way I see it is :

- Crying mag dk : I can't sustain my rotation, magdk is dead in PvE. ZoS : let's give them more regen and nerf OP stamdk pve damage.
-
- Crying dk : Wings are useless, they should give snare removal or something like that. ZoS : let's give wings snare removal.

- Crying dk : DK healing is useless and cinder storm is bad. ZoS : Trying to make both of that better.

- Crying dk : Cauterize is bad. ZoS : buffing it.

- Crying dk : Stone fist is useless. ZoS : buffing it.

- Crying dk : 2s major mending is *** no one use it. ZoS : buffing major mending time.

- Crying dk : Stam dk has no indentity in PvP. ZoS : what's pvp ?

I'm not saying the unofficial from memory data we have is the best way to buff dk or is great or something else.

Behing your QQ and my sarcasm is the real message : ZoS listen to you and try to solves most issues u reported. I said try, not done, but at least, they know on what working.

StaticWave · April 2018

BohnT wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
What makes DKs more 'tankier' than the next class... please do not even mention the 10% block passive as they plays out by taking into account your resistances, your buffs, then applies the 10% on the calculated cost of the two. Example: 20k Damage divided by Resistance + buff multiplied by 10% = the outcome of what 10% really is.

They are tanky in the sense that they can turtle up and heal to full with mending. Also in the sense that major mending helps tremendously when you're defiled, where as on a sorc if you get defiled you're done for

You keep mentioning how strong mending is and how weak sorcs are over and over again.

If you value mending that much and mobility is that meaningless in your eyes, you should maybe play a sDK.

StaticWave wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
I can 1vX I'll message you my profile so you can see me, I'm not too bad but not the greatest.
Also again I'm complaining about fragmented shield because I don't want half measured they should return igneous shields major mending and make fragmented shield something worth choosing major mending over. Simply increasing the duration on another morph IMO was laziness.

If you want you can post a vid, but that is not what this thread is about.

Fragmented shields is a buff to stamdks. Not everyone plays a magdk like you

Fragmented shields will be an awesome skill for Stam DKs and likely very strong for DK Healers, which will finally be a thing in Summerset.

The only worry I have is how the stacking of shields will be handled between a DK Tank and a DK Healer.

Its basically the old igneous shields, -1 second duration. The only difference is that we now will have easier time with magicka sustain, which is helpful. but does not change much really. stamDks number 1 issue is having way too low kill potential, which remains as an issue in my opinion.

They're a lot closer to stamdks pre-nerf, which were too strong. This buff will hopefully make stamdks stronger than their curent state, but not unkillable strong pre-nerf

StamDK pre-nerf had ;
roughly 2x/3x stronger constution(with black rose meta),allowing not only more blockcasting but also better magicka sustain.
6 seconds of major mending instead of 3.
roughly double stam return from adrenaline rush
much lower skill costs, allowing easier blockcasting.
battle roar that scaled with maximum stamina, and overall much bigger stamina returns.
helping hands that also scaled with max stam, used to provide much more stamina.
2x less block cost.

All these things changed in one patch and ultimately destroyed stamDk identity.

If you do believe stamDk will be anything close to what it was pre-morrowind, don't worry. This class will never see competitive play again. I'm certain at this point.

1/Constitution nerf impacted all heavy armor builds, not just stamdks.
2/ this upcoming patch will give dks 5s of major mending. This is 1s short of pre-nerf, but that should be enough to make them strong.
3/sustain nerf was across the board, not just for dks.
4/ Pre-nerf Dks were too strong. Good players were unkillable. Now good players are killable, but mediocre players who rode the bandwagon got weeded out.
5/ I don't believe stamdks will be close to their previous state, nor do I want to. I don't want to see stamdks taking up half of stamina classes in cyrodill.
6/Good stam dk mains who stuck with the class still slay. Bad stamdks won't.

Nr 6 is just wrong. All good stamdks on Pc EU stopped playing stamdk because it's completely outclassed by everything else. Also the number of stamdks in Cyro is like 3, 1 good nostalgic stamdk main and 2 people who haven't heard of weaving, sets or competitive play.

Well, I play on PC NA so your experience may be different than mine. I still see more dks than sorcs in pvp on PC NA so that's probably why we disagree

Ragnarock41 · April 2018

StaticWave wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
What makes DKs more 'tankier' than the next class... please do not even mention the 10% block passive as they plays out by taking into account your resistances, your buffs, then applies the 10% on the calculated cost of the two. Example: 20k Damage divided by Resistance + buff multiplied by 10% = the outcome of what 10% really is.

They are tanky in the sense that they can turtle up and heal to full with mending. Also in the sense that major mending helps tremendously when you're defiled, where as on a sorc if you get defiled you're done for

You keep mentioning how strong mending is and how weak sorcs are over and over again.

If you value mending that much and mobility is that meaningless in your eyes, you should maybe play a sDK.

StaticWave wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
I can 1vX I'll message you my profile so you can see me, I'm not too bad but not the greatest.
Also again I'm complaining about fragmented shield because I don't want half measured they should return igneous shields major mending and make fragmented shield something worth choosing major mending over. Simply increasing the duration on another morph IMO was laziness.

If you want you can post a vid, but that is not what this thread is about.

Fragmented shields is a buff to stamdks. Not everyone plays a magdk like you

Fragmented shields will be an awesome skill for Stam DKs and likely very strong for DK Healers, which will finally be a thing in Summerset.

The only worry I have is how the stacking of shields will be handled between a DK Tank and a DK Healer.

Its basically the old igneous shields, -1 second duration. The only difference is that we now will have easier time with magicka sustain, which is helpful. but does not change much really. stamDks number 1 issue is having way too low kill potential, which remains as an issue in my opinion.

They're a lot closer to stamdks pre-nerf, which were too strong. This buff will hopefully make stamdks stronger than their curent state, but not unkillable strong pre-nerf

StamDK pre-nerf had ;
roughly 2x/3x stronger constution(with black rose meta),allowing not only more blockcasting but also better magicka sustain.
6 seconds of major mending instead of 3.
roughly double stam return from adrenaline rush
much lower skill costs, allowing easier blockcasting.
battle roar that scaled with maximum stamina, and overall much bigger stamina returns.
helping hands that also scaled with max stam, used to provide much more stamina.
2x less block cost.

All these things changed in one patch and ultimately destroyed stamDk identity.

If you do believe stamDk will be anything close to what it was pre-morrowind, don't worry. This class will never see competitive play again. I'm certain at this point.

1/Constitution nerf impacted all heavy armor builds, not just stamdks.
2/ this upcoming patch will give dks 5s of major mending. This is 1s short of pre-nerf, but that should be enough to make them strong.
3/sustain nerf was across the board, not just for dks.
4/ Pre-nerf Dks were too strong. Good players were unkillable. Now good players are killable, but mediocre players who rode the bandwagon got weeded out.
5/ I don't believe stamdks will be close to their previous state, nor do I want to. I don't want to see stamdks taking up half of stamina classes in cyrodill.
6/Good stam dk mains who stuck with the class still slay. Bad stamdks won't.

As I said, if you believe 2 extra seconds of mending will make up for the ridicilously bad sustain you are in for a suprise. Though I am pretty sure you would personally prefer mending completely removed from Dks.

either way, I stand by my words. If I end up wrong you can gladly quote me and call me out for what I said. But you're the guy who calls stamblades weak in their current state so I know that you do all this on purpose.

Wing · April 2018

Stam DK is almost entirely made up of skill that every class has access to, it brings nothing to the table that makes "stam DK" definitively a "stam dk!" its just weapon line skills and world skills with maybe 1 actual DK skill. (DK since beta here)

stam Sorc is defined by its mobility in hurricane and streak, dark deal being able to convert off stat to main stat and healing, the colossal amount of passive healing it gets from surge, and being able to take advantage of bleed procs better then any other class.

stam Warden is better then even sorc in the moment thanks to the sheer amount of overtuned skills and utility in their kit, I cannot even list all the buffs and benefits. better version of wings, better mobility, better healing, better burst, better team support, better ults (excluding bear) the list goes on.

stam NB is infamous so I'm not even going to go into detail, and only getting better come update.

stam Templar is the ONLY class in a similar boat to DK but even it brings some unique flavor to stam in the form of jabs and chucking spears.

DK's stam burst is uppercut, its execute is executioner, its heal is vigor and rally, its ult is dawnbreaker, etc. its all weapon and world line skills, its brings no flavor to stamina that other classes cannot do better.

magicka has always done better in pve and has a good identity but is crippled by lack of mobility and nothing to make up for it. DK is historically the class that has no mobility, and no range, so they (ZOS) refuse to give it any, but give it nothing to make up for it.

BTW stonefist can die in a fire (DK pun not intended) that skill has NEVER been useful, is not useful now, and wont be useful after summerset, and has only lead to the nerf of other skills (fossilize) because of its continued existence. if I had one wish for DK it would be the complete removal of this skill, there are not enough derogatory terms I can say on the forums that convey my hatred of this skill.

StaticWave · April 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
Mate there is no turtle up game-play for a Stam DK in Open world combat, so just stop with that nonsense. Major mending lasts 3 seconds prior to nerfs it lasts 6 seconds like cool that will help me when it comes to fighting multiple targets... oh wait.
You put this 'good dks' as if eluding that I'm somewhat bad but mate I've sent you a video and most show me 1vX by myself no help from a friend.

I could care-less what a streamer says and just because they stream doesn't certainly mean they're the best player in that class role, it just means they daily show that they can preform while others don't stream or consistently put out videos showing us do X.
Lastly you can as I do sometimes run vitality potions in OW and they do indeed work wonders since they can keep my health up with combined heals from rally/vigor as I take a lot of damage when fighting multiple targets.

I've seen 2 good stamdks turtle up and heal through dmg from 6 pugs while wearing medium armor. MEDIUM ARMOR. I can't do that on a stamsorc.

Kodi is one of the best pvper in ESO, period. I don't care what you think. When you watch his gameplay you'll see what I mean. Also FYI, PC NA is harder than PC EU.

StaticWave · April 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
What makes DKs more 'tankier' than the next class... please do not even mention the 10% block passive as they plays out by taking into account your resistances, your buffs, then applies the 10% on the calculated cost of the two. Example: 20k Damage divided by Resistance + buff multiplied by 10% = the outcome of what 10% really is.

They are tanky in the sense that they can turtle up and heal to full with mending. Also in the sense that major mending helps tremendously when you're defiled, where as on a sorc if you get defiled you're done for

You keep mentioning how strong mending is and how weak sorcs are over and over again.

If you value mending that much and mobility is that meaningless in your eyes, you should maybe play a sDK.

StaticWave wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
I can 1vX I'll message you my profile so you can see me, I'm not too bad but not the greatest.
Also again I'm complaining about fragmented shield because I don't want half measured they should return igneous shields major mending and make fragmented shield something worth choosing major mending over. Simply increasing the duration on another morph IMO was laziness.

If you want you can post a vid, but that is not what this thread is about.

Fragmented shields is a buff to stamdks. Not everyone plays a magdk like you

Fragmented shields will be an awesome skill for Stam DKs and likely very strong for DK Healers, which will finally be a thing in Summerset.

The only worry I have is how the stacking of shields will be handled between a DK Tank and a DK Healer.

Its basically the old igneous shields, -1 second duration. The only difference is that we now will have easier time with magicka sustain, which is helpful. but does not change much really. stamDks number 1 issue is having way too low kill potential, which remains as an issue in my opinion.

They're a lot closer to stamdks pre-nerf, which were too strong. This buff will hopefully make stamdks stronger than their curent state, but not unkillable strong pre-nerf

StamDK pre-nerf had ;
roughly 2x/3x stronger constution(with black rose meta),allowing not only more blockcasting but also better magicka sustain.
6 seconds of major mending instead of 3.
roughly double stam return from adrenaline rush
much lower skill costs, allowing easier blockcasting.
battle roar that scaled with maximum stamina, and overall much bigger stamina returns.
helping hands that also scaled with max stam, used to provide much more stamina.
2x less block cost.

All these things changed in one patch and ultimately destroyed stamDk identity.

If you do believe stamDk will be anything close to what it was pre-morrowind, don't worry. This class will never see competitive play again. I'm certain at this point.

1/Constitution nerf impacted all heavy armor builds, not just stamdks.
2/ this upcoming patch will give dks 5s of major mending. This is 1s short of pre-nerf, but that should be enough to make them strong.
3/sustain nerf was across the board, not just for dks.
4/ Pre-nerf Dks were too strong. Good players were unkillable. Now good players are killable, but mediocre players who rode the bandwagon got weeded out.
5/ I don't believe stamdks will be close to their previous state, nor do I want to. I don't want to see stamdks taking up half of stamina classes in cyrodill.
6/Good stam dk mains who stuck with the class still slay. Bad stamdks won't.

As I said, if you believe 2 extra seconds of mending will make up for the ridicilously bad sustain you are in for a suprise. Though I am pretty sure you would personally prefer mending completely removed from Dks.

either way, I stand by my words. If I end up wrong you can gladly quote me and call me out for what I said. But you're the guy who calls stamblades weak in their current state so I know that you do all this on purpose.

Then run medium armor and stack 2k regen and you're set. That's what my guildmate uses and he slays people.

I never said stamblades are weak lol. I said stamblades arent op and incap has its disadvantages.

Ragnarock41 · April 2018

StaticWave wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
What makes DKs more 'tankier' than the next class... please do not even mention the 10% block passive as they plays out by taking into account your resistances, your buffs, then applies the 10% on the calculated cost of the two. Example: 20k Damage divided by Resistance + buff multiplied by 10% = the outcome of what 10% really is.

They are tanky in the sense that they can turtle up and heal to full with mending. Also in the sense that major mending helps tremendously when you're defiled, where as on a sorc if you get defiled you're done for

You keep mentioning how strong mending is and how weak sorcs are over and over again.

If you value mending that much and mobility is that meaningless in your eyes, you should maybe play a sDK.

StaticWave wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
I can 1vX I'll message you my profile so you can see me, I'm not too bad but not the greatest.
Also again I'm complaining about fragmented shield because I don't want half measured they should return igneous shields major mending and make fragmented shield something worth choosing major mending over. Simply increasing the duration on another morph IMO was laziness.

If you want you can post a vid, but that is not what this thread is about.

Fragmented shields is a buff to stamdks. Not everyone plays a magdk like you

Fragmented shields will be an awesome skill for Stam DKs and likely very strong for DK Healers, which will finally be a thing in Summerset.

The only worry I have is how the stacking of shields will be handled between a DK Tank and a DK Healer.

Its basically the old igneous shields, -1 second duration. The only difference is that we now will have easier time with magicka sustain, which is helpful. but does not change much really. stamDks number 1 issue is having way too low kill potential, which remains as an issue in my opinion.

They're a lot closer to stamdks pre-nerf, which were too strong. This buff will hopefully make stamdks stronger than their curent state, but not unkillable strong pre-nerf

StamDK pre-nerf had ;
roughly 2x/3x stronger constution(with black rose meta),allowing not only more blockcasting but also better magicka sustain.
6 seconds of major mending instead of 3.
roughly double stam return from adrenaline rush
much lower skill costs, allowing easier blockcasting.
battle roar that scaled with maximum stamina, and overall much bigger stamina returns.
helping hands that also scaled with max stam, used to provide much more stamina.
2x less block cost.

All these things changed in one patch and ultimately destroyed stamDk identity.

If you do believe stamDk will be anything close to what it was pre-morrowind, don't worry. This class will never see competitive play again. I'm certain at this point.

1/Constitution nerf impacted all heavy armor builds, not just stamdks.
2/ this upcoming patch will give dks 5s of major mending. This is 1s short of pre-nerf, but that should be enough to make them strong.
3/sustain nerf was across the board, not just for dks.
4/ Pre-nerf Dks were too strong. Good players were unkillable. Now good players are killable, but mediocre players who rode the bandwagon got weeded out.
5/ I don't believe stamdks will be close to their previous state, nor do I want to. I don't want to see stamdks taking up half of stamina classes in cyrodill.
6/Good stam dk mains who stuck with the class still slay. Bad stamdks won't.

As I said, if you believe 2 extra seconds of mending will make up for the ridicilously bad sustain you are in for a suprise. Though I am pretty sure you would personally prefer mending completely removed from Dks.

either way, I stand by my words. If I end up wrong you can gladly quote me and call me out for what I said. But you're the guy who calls stamblades weak in their current state so I know that you do all this on purpose.

Then run medium armor and stack 2k regen and you're set. That's what my guildmate uses and he slays people.

I never said stamblades are weak lol. I said stamblades arent op and incap has its disadvantages.

Incap has its disadvantages? rofl. I think this explains why you lose your mind over 2 extra ticks of mended vigor

And where are all those medium armor 2k regen DKs that can somehow permablock on top of it? You know you're a very funny guy.

SaintSubwayy · April 2018

L

Wing wrote: »

Stam DK is almost entirely made up of skill that every class has access to, it brings nothing to the table that makes "stam DK" definitively a "stam dk!" its just weapon line skills and world skills with maybe 1 actual DK skill. (DK since beta here)

stam Sorc is defined by its mobility in hurricane and streak, dark deal being able to convert off stat to main stat and healing, the colossal amount of passive healing it gets from surge, and being able to take advantage of bleed procs better then any other class.

stam Warden is better then even sorc in the moment thanks to the sheer amount of overtuned skills and utility in their kit, I cannot even list all the buffs and benefits. better version of wings, better mobility, better healing, better burst, better team support, better ults (excluding bear) the list goes on.

stam NB is infamous so I'm not even going to go into detail, and only getting better come update.

stam Templar is the ONLY class in a similar boat to DK but even it brings some unique flavor to stam in the form of jabs and chucking spears.

DK's stam burst is uppercut, its execute is executioner, its heal is vigor and rally, its ult is dawnbreaker, etc. its all weapon and world line skills, its brings no flavor to stamina that other classes cannot do better.

magicka has always done better in pve and has a good identity but is crippled by lack of mobility and nothing to make up for it. DK is historically the class that has no mobility, and no range, so they (ZOS) refuse to give it any, but give it nothing to make up for it.

BTW stonefist can die in a fire (DK pun not intended) that skill has NEVER been useful, is not useful now, and wont be useful after summerset, and has only lead to the nerf of other skills (fossilize) because of its continued existence. if I had one wish for DK it would be the complete removal of this skill, there are not enough derogatory terms I can say on the forums that convey my hatred of this skill.

Jeah stamdk skills arent really in the flavor of the past 9 months xD
The only classskills I use are volatile armor (for resistance buffs, could also take heavy armor which would also give me CC immumity, when I run i heavy)
Igneous shields (will be replace with shuffle when there is enough healing)
Take flight (if we need aoe hard engage, else I run dawnbreaker)

So ever classskill stamdk uses can be replaced with a better option, depending on the situation you are in. And thats the problem stamdk has, if they buff the non class skills dk uses, other classes will use them and therefor still be better.
If they buff classskills then pve stamdk may become op like crazy again.

MaxwellC · April 2018

@Aedaryl
Yeah they listened to us... how's helping hands looking oh still giving me back 990 stamina for a 4k cost magicka skill. Players during the time (me included) begged for a revert but nah we were given "This change will be a buff if your max Stamina is lower than X and a nerf if your Max stamina is higher than X".
The list can literally go on, case point wings but nah it's ok to disregard that too.

I believe that the changes they're doing aren't that great if not bad, cinderstorm I can see now after some back n forth being ok but I'd feel Mag DKs may prefer major evasion back rather than a heal but we'll see during the PTS.

Major mending was nerfed consistently then they gave us 5s (not the 6s original one) but on the other morph and call it a job well done? The other morph wasn't used because it was stupid but instead of making it unique and making it worth slotting over igneous it was instead rehashed and thrown out there and you call that a good thing... Lol I love it.

KiraTsukasa · April 2018

I really hope that Combustion one doesn't go through. I've already had one damage passive turn useless on me (the extra damage against undead in the Fighter's Guild skill line), I don't need another.

MaxwellC · April 2018

@StaticWave
So you base your opinions on the few you've seen rather than experienced and here I am nearing 4.6k hours of DK experience and nearly 68k alliance v alliance kills (Almost all solo unless Emperor)... Must be me then I guess I just don't see why I can't turtle up like those Stam DKs you've seen, they must've been able to turtle up and wipe the floor with those guys huh?

I could care less what Kodi does in PvP, I've seen him once as someone used his stream to make a point about how take flight is better than onslaught (I thought the latter) but as per videos I've rectified that idea.

I've been 'featured' in streams too at-least I've been told that by people who play Xbox and my proudest one was when I got a streamer to leave hades (campaign back in the day) because I was the Stam DK emperor busting out 25k leaps on groups wiping them. I know this because people who were watching the stream told me quote "Bro chill with those leaps and wrecking blows, we know you're emp but damn" followed by said player telling me that they couldn't stream because I was the emperor.
Those days were fun but again I've always stated that I'm not the best player because I'm certain there are players better than me... so the point is I don't feel you should be looking at one player who happens to stream then crown him/her as the best player of that class because that is just stupid.

Aedaryl · April 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Aedaryl
Yeah they listened to us... how's helping hands looking oh still giving me back 990 stamina for a 4k cost magicka skill. Players during the time (me included) begged for a revert but nah we were given "This change will be a buff if your max Stamina is lower than X and a nerf if your Max stamina is higher than X".
The list can literally go on, case point wings but nah it's ok to disregard that too.

I believe that the changes they're doing aren't that great if not bad, cinderstorm I can see now after some back n forth being ok but I'd feel Mag DKs may prefer major evasion back rather than a heal but we'll see during the PTS.

Major mending was nerfed consistently then they us 5s (not the 6s original one) but on the other morph and call it a job well done? The other morph wasn't used because it was stupid but instead of making it unique and making it worth slotting over igneous it was instead rehashed and thrown out there and you call that a good thing... Lol I love it.

You should forget how things was before.

Look at the game right know and you will see they listen right now. How things was before everyone care because it's the past and the game has changed anyway. You need to think on how dk is right now VS other and not how DK is right now VS past.

They try to solve some issue dk has now. (if they could give that little thing missing to stamdk identity in PvP it could be fine).

MaxwellC · April 2018

@Aedaryl
Mate how can you tell me not to look at the past when every other class has NEVER SUFFERED such extensive nerf after nerf.

I look at the past to learn from that past so the present may work well and the future can be brighter.

I can look at the past and see that these changes worked for a Stamina DK and provided it its identity, I can look at the present and see the unwanted changes forced down our class and then I can complain about wanting things to be better for the future of my class because I AM PASSIONATE about my class. <- Sounds Nerdy AF but I could care-less lol.

I've listed a lot of changes on the second post that I felt needed to be changed and in the past I've provided post after post in the PTS regarding that but almost all were met with no changes (luckily I helped save Mag DKs healing... at-least I was a strong voice for the change and provided the very feedback which looks to be what was used on the final product).

Kilandros · April 2018

StaticWave wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@StaticWave
My Stam DK is the one who's almost a warlord... So I play my Stam DK more. I don't really see a good PvP stam DK relying on major mending after the changes to earthen hearts' helping hands anymore. I use to run it but stopped after knowing I'd kill nearly 50% of my Mag resources just to get a dismal return in stamina and a 3 second (Use to be 5 when that change was done to helping hands I believe) major mending.

Well dk mains complained about major mending nerf and now zos giving it back to them. You guys should be grateful because as a stamsorc main I have YET to see a single buff to my class. Stamsorc is literally at the lowest of the foodchain in pvp, yet we got no buff in this patch or last patch, or this upcoming patch. Even stamplars got no buff. How many buff stamsorc threads have you seen?

Stamsorc on the end of the food chain? Is it possible that you abuse painkillers?
Stamsorc turned into a complete beast with the last patch. You can run full damage builds and fully sustain via DD and no one can stop you from spamming it.
Saying you got no buff is laughable, stamsorc got a huge buff with the off balance changes, Steel tornado being undodgeable and the biggest buff was Interrupt changes.

There is no way a stamsorc loses in any category vs a stamdk. You have more pressure, more damage, more sustain, better mobility etc.

Stamsorcs are at the lowest position in the foodchain though. I don't see that many stamsorcs in cyrodill. Can you explain to me? And no, I've tried running a full dmg build with 800 regen. It does not work, period. The moment you get swamped and you can't dark deal, you're done for. If you rely on dark deal for sustain, then you're only good in groups where you can rely on your teammate. In solo it's horrible. Steel tornado and interrupt change is not a sorc buff. It's an indirect buff yea, but other classes also benefit. Give me one direct buff that stamsorc has and we can start discussing.

To be fair, Stamsorc is definitely not the worst stamina class on Live.

Rohamad_Ali · April 2018

Guys .. Guys Stop and listen ok . I saw a DK streamer winning all the time against a lot of Zerg players so DK is doing good and does not need anymore things . Also , my class is weakest and needs buffing . We are the fat kid at the back of the Zerg . Don't believe me ? Go watch that streamer !

Kronuxx · April 2018

Emma_Overload wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Emma_Overload
We always had major mending? I don't get your point at all; I'll continue to voice my frustrations until this class is brought to its former glory where I could hold my ground and not feel that my class is screwed in PvP. PvE wise we've got some good things but changes to current skills could open our skill-set out to be more versatile in damaging targets with a Player based AoE that increases DoT damage or maybe having a tank using fragmented shield with the change I listed above.

Except your class is not "screwed in PvP". I run into unkillable DKs all the time, who still somehow can turn around and kill you with that leap thing. DKs are strong, and they've been strong for months. That's why there are millions of them all over Cyrodiil! I must see 5 DKs for every Sorc I come across... that's ridiculous!

That "leap thing"? Don't come on a thread discussing DK changes when you clearly have no clue how DK's operate and work. You're clueless as well as your statements are asinine. Simple as that.