Lackluster morph choices that hopefully ZOS will look into for Summerset

Joy_Division · April 2018

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Bull Netch - Not sure why it made the list. Major Brutality, give up the Purge, get to keep the Major Sorcery. How is this one punishing stam? On my tank I actually prefer keeping Sorcery and losing Purge. Better heals, and I can take the DoT.

Cutting Dive - again, not sure why it made the list. That's one hard hitting spamable. Plus survivability, due to the passive, the more you spam it the more you heal. The same is true of the other morph though, so in my mind they are carbine copies. Unless you feel like standing so far away that half of your skill wont even reach you target

These (and others) are on the list because choosing these morph do not alter the base morph in any way/give further bonuses except change/open the skill to stamina versions.

This design is a pet peeve of mine because it's lazy, it's unimaginative, and it's inconsistent. Why does opting for the "cutting dive morph do nothing but change the skill to stamina, whereas if I play a stamina Nightblade and choose the "ambush" morph, it does more than just change it to a stamina focused skill by giving the sweet empower bonus? Is that because playing a stamina nightblade is somehow "right" and deserving of an extra perk?

Tasear · April 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Bull Netch - Not sure why it made the list. Major Brutality, give up the Purge, get to keep the Major Sorcery. How is this one punishing stam? On my tank I actually prefer keeping Sorcery and losing Purge. Better heals, and I can take the DoT.

Cutting Dive - again, not sure why it made the list. That's one hard hitting spamable. Plus survivability, due to the passive, the more you spam it the more you heal. The same is true of the other morph though, so in my mind they are carbine copies. Unless you feel like standing so far away that half of your skill wont even reach you target

These (and others) are on the list because choosing these morph do not alter the base morph in any way/give further bonuses except change/open the skill to stamina versions.

This design is a pet peeve of mine because it's lazy, it's unimaginative, and it's inconsistent. Why does opting for the "cutting dive morph do nothing but change the skill to stamina, whereas if I play a stamina Nightblade and choose the "ambush" morph, it does more than just change it to a stamina focused skill by giving the sweet empower bonus? Is that because playing a stamina nightblade is somehow "right" and deserving of an extra perk?

Some of these skills weren't always this way. It was actions taken to balance stamina over Magicka that had some changes come about for it .

Maulkin · April 2018

JobooAGS wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

How about that hot garbage skill known as Camo/Evil Hunter?

I like these threads - planning to look at passives next? There are some real poopers there for sure.

I'd like to see Major Brutality added to Camo/Evil Hunter. Some would argue that Major Brutality + Major Savagery would be too much, but at least it would give builds a way to access Major Brutality without having to rely on weapons or class-specific skills all the time.

Entropy is Major Sorcery + Empower. Why not Major Brutality + Major Savagery for Camo/Evil Hunter?

To be fair, the Empower is a Mage Guild passive, it doesn't apply to Entropy alone. If you're gonna include the passives, I'd argue 3% weapon damage constant for just having Camo/Evil Hunter slotted is a pretty strong buff. Empower doesn't help your heals, Major Burtality and Weapon Damage passive do.

I don't know, I personally think Major Savagery + Major Brutality on 1 skill is a bit over the top. Why not do the same with Magelight then? Make it give both and then turn Entropy into a strong HoT instead. Everyone would slot it (Magelight) then.

Mages guild has max mag and mag regen for each skill slotted

And Fighers Guild has more damage against Vampires and WW. Again, I fail to see the point. Passives are passives and the two trees have generally balanced passives when looking at them.

Having a skill give two major buffs, the two most important buffs by a mile I would argue, would be overloading the skill in my opinion. I'm all for making changes to the skill, starting by nerfing the cost significantly and maybe even adding more utility. But major brutality and major savagery on top of the WD buff, that would basically make it THE best skill to front bar for pretty much any stamina damage build in PvP and make it a tremendous buff to stam builds.

In some ways it would help diversity for stam builds and in other ways it would hurt it. Same with making Magelight grant Major Sorcery and Major Prophecy. Why would I ever slot any other skill like Molten Weapons or Power Surge or what not.

Seraphayel · April 2018

Nova. Worst Ultimate in the game. I really hope they're doing something with it in the next Chapter.

Looks dope but hits like a wet noodle.

Tasear · April 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

Nova. Worst ultimate in the game. I really hope they're doing something with it.

It's a denfensive ultimate and one of best in game.

Seraphayel · April 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Nova. Worst ultimate in the game. I really hope they're doing something with it.

It's a denfensive ultimate and one of best in game.

Where is it used? There are better offensive/defensive/support ultimates in game than Nova. At best it's a niche ultimate for very specific situations.

Tasear · April 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Nova. Worst ultimate in the game. I really hope they're doing something with it.

It's a denfensive ultimate and one of best in game.

Where is it used? There are better offensive/defensive/support ultimates in game than Nova. At best it's a niche ultimate for very specific situations.

Most places I think of can use it. It gives dps more time to kill something. Also good when situation is look sure, as it gives a chance for recovery. It's a support skill found on my Templar healer builds. It's been quite populapr over the years.

Valkysas154 · April 2018

Would love to see Solar Barrage have its cast time removed and upped from 6sec -3ticks- to 8sec -4 ticks-
and the empowered removed and given something else then again i believe most of the templar passives need a rework no real synergy with it self we dont really need more than 1 ability that gives minor mending for example kinda a wast.

datgladiatah · April 2018

Why are people defending crystal blast, it's terrible. Just pick literally any other aoe for any weapon line at any point in the game and it'll be better. Ele blockade, steel tornado, puncturing sweeps, like... anything. Picking crystal blast to realize it's *** terrible later in the game isn't fun.

Maulkin · April 2018

datgladiatah wrote: »

Why are people defending crystal blast, it's terrible. Just pick literally any other aoe for any weapon line at any point in the game and it'll be better. Ele blockade, steel tornado, puncturing sweeps, like... anything. Picking crystal blast to realize it's *** terrible later in the game isn't fun.

Who’s defending it?

ZOS_JesC · April 2018

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Waffennacht · April 2018

You're wrong about bull netch, it provides both buffs so is extremely versatile and should not be changed

Brrrofski · April 2018

Some of the top of my head (not already mentioned). As you can see, they're so useless I don't even know the names of most of them.

The wings morph for dk that gives spell resist - never going to take this over in reased reflect damage

Hardened armor - shield is way too small

Radiant glory - has anyone ever used this outside of vma?

Explosive charge - too situational

The non heroism morph of crystalised shield - way too strong to give up.

Damage morph of polar wind - its a tank pve skill, healing an ally is way better than some damage

Other morph of heroic slash - splash damage instead of ult gain? No thanks

The teleport version of bats - heal is great, gap closer ult is not.

I also agree with joy - Stam morphs not doing anything special. You have skills like sweeps that heal and jabs that give crit, boundless gives major expedition and hurricane gives minor plus a radius and damage growth, surprise attack gives major fracture and concealed gives stealthed speed buff. Then you have ones like joy mentioned that just make it useable for Stam. Other morph of molten gives heavy attack damage, other morph of netch removes negative effect, other morph of dive does more damage the greater the distance. The Stam one should also do something extra also.

DDuke · April 2018

Great list @Joy_Division , I agree with most of it.

Though Crystal Blast... to be fair it's used in Overload gank builds thanks to its unique travel time.

Charging up Crystal Blast from stealth allows you to follow it up with two Overload light attacks and have the first one land right before Crystal Blast lands & stuns target and second one right after, before target can CC break.

If you try that with Crystal Frags, you'll notice that the Frag will land long before the Overload light attacks and will prompt target to dodge roll them. Not to mention that it doesn't stun anymore.

Also I'd like to add one thing: Evil Hunter.

While Camo Hunter is used in some stealth oriented builds on classes without access to Minor Berserk (Templar, DK, Sorc) for that buff and Major Savagery/3% weapon dmg, Evil Hunter is severely lacking.

Evil Hunter is the 3rd most expensive stamina skill in the game (right after Rapid Maneuver & Circle of Protection) with its base 4590 stamina cost and the only effect of the morph is:
"While active the Stamina costs of your Fighters Guild abilities are reduced."

While active. The activation has a 5s duration & the skill is one of the most expensive abilities in the game. It does reduce its own cost if refreshed within those 5 seconds, but still...

Of course both morphs are still lacking when compared to their Mages Guild counterparts (Radiant Magelight & Inner Light), but if atleast the morph disparity could be addressed that'd be nice ZOS.

f047ys3v3n · April 2018

NB Soul Harvest morph of death stroke is pretty useless.

Right now Incap strike is the PVP morph of this skill. It is Melee and provides the stun in the middle of the Bomb-blade attack stack. As such even though I don't feel it is really all that powerful itself it does make an important contribution to a combination that is effective.

Soul Harvest meanwhile is used almost nobody in PVE. The reason that it is not used by many is simply that it is melee as well but every single other mNB's skill used in PVE is ranged. So it dosen't make much sense to use it and convert a ranged toon to melee. This is especially true as a mNB is really not worth much melee as stam toons are just much better for that in all but the few situations that require a shield for an ill-conceived mechanic. If soul harvest were ranged it would be a compelling PVE mNB ultimate that would make for excellent group synergy if combined with the master Architect set. That set is really not very compelling right now as virtually all magica ultis cost 200+ ulti and therefore just don't get cast many times in a fight. MNB historically has been all about it's group utility with veil (when ultimates and mitigation were a thing,) passive heals with funnel health (before multiple nerfs,) sap essence (again before multiple nerfs,) and refreshing path (before twisting was just too much damage to give up.) It would be nice to have mNB with a good class ultimate for PVE again and also an opportunity for good group support. If you want to take some damage to compensate think that nightmare relentless focus rotation you all created.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2018

.NB Soul Harvest morph of death stroke is pretty useless.

10 ulti on kill is amazing and I use soul harvest instead of incap on my pve Stamblade. I need to use the destro ulti (which is bugged right now too, the fire destro ulti doesn't get the 10% it ought to, the ulti has the same damage as the ice staff version) on my front bar as a magblade, there is just no room for any other destro skill.

Vapirko · April 2018

I kind of feel like nerf/buff/adjustment threads pertaining to race/skills need to be banned, unless developers post something asking for suggestions. I think it's pretty rare that any of us have any good suggestions to offer and most of the time they just result in unneeded changes. And honestly most of the really needed suggestions such as usable class ultimates, seem to go unanswered. Forums should be more for general discussion of the game, questions etc. The only time skills or races should come into it is if something isn't working properly. Maybe a select few community members earn the right to post about buffs/nerfs.

Seraphayel · April 2018

Brrrofski wrote: »

Radiant glory - has anyone ever used this outside of vma?

I just read that the increased damage based on Magicka starts at 100% Magicka so you'll basically never have the full bonus. And when you're executing you most likely don't have more than 20-30% Magicka in PvE which brings down the bonus to a minimum. In PvP I can't think of any situation where Radiant Opression would be better due to the quite terrible sustain Magplar has.

Radiant Opression sounds good on paper but is pretty bad in reality. At least the 20% heal is applying all the time.

Brrrofski · April 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Radiant glory - has anyone ever used this outside of vma?

I just read that the increased damage based on Magicka starts at 100% Magicka so you'll basically never have the full bonus. And when you're executing you most likely don't have more than 20-30% Magicka in PvE which brings down the bonus to a minimum. In PvP I can't think of any situation where Radiant Opression would be better due to the quite terrible sustain Magplar has.

Radiant Opression sounds good on paper but is pretty bad in reality. At least the 20% heal is applying all the time.

So why have I never been killed by it in PvP? I honestly mean that, I never have.

Extra damage is extra damage, even if it isn't the 100% it could be.

Seraphayel · April 2018

Brrrofski wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Radiant glory - has anyone ever used this outside of vma?

I just read that the increased damage based on Magicka starts at 100% Magicka so you'll basically never have the full bonus. And when you're executing you most likely don't have more than 20-30% Magicka in PvE which brings down the bonus to a minimum. In PvP I can't think of any situation where Radiant Opression would be better due to the quite terrible sustain Magplar has.

Radiant Opression sounds good on paper but is pretty bad in reality. At least the 20% heal is applying all the time.

So why have I never been killed by it in PvP? I honestly mean that, I never have.

Extra damage is extra damage, even if it isn't the 100% it could be.

It's 20% more damage when you have 100% Magicka. So you'll never get the full bonus. With 50% Magicka it's 10% more damage. When do you execute an enemy in PvP and have so much Magicka? Maybe when you're fighting pretty bad players. Magplar sustain is pretty bad in PvP so you're usually low on Magicka which makes this morph pretty much useless in PvP. Maybe there's some advantages in PvE but I doubt that. The scaling is just pretty bad. And I don't think that PvP focused players would go with the Radiant Opression morph.

I just made a thread about this last week: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/402673/radiant-destruction-which-morph#latest

Brrrofski · April 2018

I've never been killed by radiant glory in PvP. I'm not even kidding, which is why I mentioned the skill. Even at 25% mahica you still get 5% more damage. It still might just do the difference.

If you're using beam in PvP, you're DPS so the healing is kinda cute as you'll have a healer. May as well take any extra damage you can for hard fights.

I don't think magllar has terrible sustain either. In PvP most people are running dw or s&b, that's more the issue than magplar sustain - no heavy attacks.

Seraphayel · April 2018

5% more damage is like nothing in PvP. It's not like you really get 5% out of it, with all the mitigation and decreased damage / increased defense it might be a bonus of 2-3%. Even 5% is really bad.

Well, 20% heal from each tick in PvP sounds much more reasonable than 2-5% more damage. Getting healed for 1-2k is better than to deal 200, 300 or 500 more damage (imho).

Magplar sustain is pretty underwhelming because you've to stay in your "house" (=Rune) and sacrifice a lot of mobility.

I know that many players are using Radiant Opression but I don't know if those are PvP focused players. The increased damage is pretty much negligible, even in PvE it isn't very great either and in PvE your sustain is way better because you can focus on your rotations.

I find both morphs to be very lackluster. At least they could increase the scaling. Jesus beam has been nerfed several times though...

Brrrofski · April 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

5% more damage is like nothing in PvP. It's not like you really get 5% out of it, with all the mitigation and decreased damage / increased defense it might be a bonus of 2-3%. Even 5% is really bad.

Well, 20% heal from each tick in PvP sounds much more reasonable than 2-5% more damage. Getting healed for 1-2k is better than to deal 200, 300 or 500 more damage (imho).

Magplar sustain is pretty underwhelming because you've to stay in your "house" (=Rune) and sacrifice a lot of mobility.

I know that many players are using Radiant Opression but I don't know if those are PvP focused players. The increased damage is pretty much negligible, even in PvE it isn't very great either and in PvE your sustain is way better because you can focus on your rotations.

I don't want to derail this thread so I'll leave it there just saying, I never get killed by glory though in PvP, so I don't know who's using it? Nobody uses it from what I see. Admittedly, there are a lot of zerglings who might benefit more from opression - so that may be something. I don't even use an execute on magplar. Being locked into a cast time that long when outnumbered is pretty crappy to be honest.

WillhelmBlack · April 2018

I believe Empowering Sweep should scale off weapon damage and max stamina, Stamplars do use this morph despite it scaling from Spell damage/Magicka. Magplar needs the other morph for burst, would be better if it AoE knocked down also.

Also, everyone knows now that the dodgeable/off balance/Lash change has killed DK and a stamina morph of Power Lash as it used to be maybe too overpowered. So why not give DK a physical Whip and keeps those changes but make the Magicka version, Power Lash, undodgeable again.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2018

Brrrofski wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

5% more damage is like nothing in PvP. It's not like you really get 5% out of it, with all the mitigation and decreased damage / increased defense it might be a bonus of 2-3%. Even 5% is really bad.

Well, 20% heal from each tick in PvP sounds much more reasonable than 2-5% more damage. Getting healed for 1-2k is better than to deal 200, 300 or 500 more damage (imho).

Magplar sustain is pretty underwhelming because you've to stay in your "house" (=Rune) and sacrifice a lot of mobility.

I know that many players are using Radiant Opression but I don't know if those are PvP focused players. The increased damage is pretty much negligible, even in PvE it isn't very great either and in PvE your sustain is way better because you can focus on your rotations.

I don't want to derail this thread so I'll leave it there just saying, I never get killed by glory though in PvP, so I don't know who's using it? Nobody uses it from what I see. Admittedly, there are a lot of zerglings who might benefit more from opression - so that may be something. I don't even use an execute on magplar. Being locked into a cast time that long when outnumbered is pretty crappy to be honest.

I am pretty sure that in death recaps they are both named radiant destruction, so you probably have been and didn't know it.

Ashamray · April 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

You're wrong about bull netch, it provides both buffs so is extremely versatile and should not be changed

The beam should be changed, it's ugly

danno8 · April 2018

Brrrofski wrote: »

I've never been killed by radiant glory in PvP. I'm not even kidding, which is why I mentioned the skill. Even at 25% mahica you still get 5% more damage. It still might just do the difference.

If you're using beam in PvP, you're DPS so the healing is kinda cute as you'll have a healer. May as well take any extra damage you can for hard fights.

I don't think magllar has terrible sustain either. In PvP most people are running dw or s&b, that's more the issue than magplar sustain - no heavy attacks.

In PvP on the kill recap you won't see "Radiant Glory". You will see "Radiant Oppression", while the heal portion is called "Radiant Glory" for the caster.

FrancisCrawford · April 2018

Tasear wrote: »

( Elegant also increases pet dps)

Wait -- what? I assume that's pet DPS except for Familiar Pulse? And the effect is additive rather than multiplicative with Daedric Prey?

Anti_Virus · April 2018

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I believe Empowering Sweep should scale off weapon damage and max stamina, Stamplars do use this morph despite it scaling from Spell damage/Magicka. Magplar needs the other morph for burst, would be better if it AoE knocked down also.

Also, everyone knows now that the dodgeable/off balance/Lash change has killed DK and a stamina morph of Power Lash as it used to be maybe too overpowered. So why not give DK a physical Whip and keeps those changes but make the Magicka version, Power Lash, undodgeable again.

Stam whip plz ZOS.

Beardimus · April 2018

Disagree on Power Overload, it's THE morph if you building for Overload. As its raw damage. Sure Overload builds are rare but damn effective when done right.

In fact @Joy_Division I would argue energy overload has less relevance now since the Ultimate nerf. When it gave us a full bar back happy days

I know why they have blast as they do, but man either give frag the damage back or stun and then change blast.