Incoherent Balance and Unbridled Bias - Cloak is Fine, Streak is Nerfed

Gilvoth · March 2018

classes balanced

Listen, if go to cryodiil right now you will see all classes fighting fairly, no class greater then another, they all dying and killing each other at same pace
if you don't believe me then go to cryodiil main campaign where i am at just watch the fights.
you will see that its just about perfect balance in classes.

Apherius · March 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

classes balanced

Listen, if go to cryodiil right now you will see all classes fighting fairly, no class greater then another, they all dying and killing each other at same pace
if you don't believe me then go to cryodiil main campaign where i am at just watch the fights.
you will see that its just about perfect balance in classes.

All i can see is Zerg and lag.

Blobsky · March 2018

Eventually somebody in this thread will actually play a MagNB and realise it has absolutely no other survivability source these days. (Image is great but alone it would be a terrible streak)

Says a 2x Grand Overlord MagNB since Beta

King_Thelon · March 2018

Blobsky wrote: »

Eventually somebody in this thread will actually play a MagNB and realise it has absolutely no other survivability source these days. (Image is great but alone it would be a terrible streak)

Says a 2x Grand Overlord MagNB since Beta

You should try a class that relies on streak and shields instead of cloak for defence. Let me know how that works out for you.

smacky · March 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Oh man, Sorcs bragging about Nightblades. As a DK or Templar I'd wish to have the nerfed Streak because it is still better than everything my class has.

Sorcerers and Nightblades are the two classes that really should not complain about anything in that regard.

@Seraphayel

Friend please go play 100 hours solo on a MagSorc. You will quickly learn that EVERY STAMINA CLASS has better mobility. Forward momentum + sprint outshines MagSorc's class-defining "escape" mechanism by miles.

Okay? MagSorc still has the 2nd best tool for escaping right after Cloak (if Cloak would work properly Streak would still be the go to). Again, MagDK and MagPlar have nothing in comparison.

And there is no "stamina class". What's with Stamina Sorcs then? Even stronger with Streak + all the other options. Out of all MagDPS Sorcerers still outshine most other Magspecs. So forgive me when I (as a MagDK or MagPlar) laugh about Sorcerers complaining about their poor escape skills.

I agree, Cloak is too strong. Give it increased cost as well. But really, Sorcs complaining here?

Compare your Health and Health regen to a MagSorc, and you might understand why the guy is making this argument.

I don't use bolt escape because it is far too costly. But I also max out at around 17k health and that's with food. I suspect your Templar (who had a javelin that stuns) and your DK (who can root enemies) have higher health than the typical MagSorc. And they do have their means of escape, just not in the same fashion.

Jade1986 · March 2018

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

There is a huge gap between how streak works and how cloak works.

Cloak is almost useless when you have high tier snares on you or are affected by any damage-after-time abilities.

Streak can be used when snared, immobilized, affected by any effect other than stuns really.

This. Exactly what I was gonna say.

King_Thelon · March 2018

@Jade1986 and @kypranb14_ESO

So what's your point, exactly? Are you trying to tell this forum that streak is a better escape tool than cloak???

Gilvoth · March 2018

King_Thelon wrote: »

@Jade1986 and @kypranb14_ESO

So what's your point, exactly? Are you trying to tell this forum that streak is a better escape tool than cloak???

cloak is for our stealth and rouge playstyle.

your streak is pure Damage and crowd control, even though you sometimes use it in Emergencies as an escape tool, you mainly use it to pull us out of stealth and out of escape.
we are rendered helpless when you spam it on us stealthers.

you pull Everyone out of escape by stunning them, knocking them down, Damaging them, and killing them with Streak over and over and over and over until they are Dead.
that is something stealth and invisibility and cloak can Never do.

ak_pvp · March 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

@Jade1986 and @kypranb14_ESO

So what's your point, exactly? Are you trying to tell this forum that streak is a better escape tool than cloak???

cloak is for our stealth and rouge playstyle.

your streak is pure Damage and crowd control, even though you sometimes use it in Emergencies as an escape tool, you mainly use it to pull us out of stealth and out of escape.
we are rendered helpless when you spam it on us stealthers.

you pull Everyone out of escape by stunning them, knocking them down, Damaging them, and killing them with Streak over and over and over and over until they are Dead.
that is something stealth and invisibility and cloak can Never do.

Cloak>>>>absolutely every other defenses. Providing you are good. Or even if you aren't because it's so forgiving.

smacky · March 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

@Jade1986 and @kypranb14_ESO

So what's your point, exactly? Are you trying to tell this forum that streak is a better escape tool than cloak???

cloak is for our stealth and rouge playstyle.

your streak is pure Damage and crowd control, even though you sometimes use it in Emergencies as an escape tool, you mainly use it to pull us out of stealth and out of escape.
we are rendered helpless when you spam it on us stealthers.

you pull Everyone out of escape by stunning them, knocking them down, Damaging them, and killing them with Streak over and over and over and over until they are Dead.
that is something stealth and invisibility and cloak can Never do.

There is a reason it is called Bolt Escape.

I beleive you have it backwards here, it is an escape tool which has a 4metre (pretty weak) CC as a by-product

Feanor · March 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

@Jade1986 and @kypranb14_ESO

So what's your point, exactly? Are you trying to tell this forum that streak is a better escape tool than cloak???

cloak is for our stealth and rouge playstyle.

your streak is pure Damage and crowd control, even though you sometimes use it in Emergencies as an escape tool, you mainly use it to pull us out of stealth and out of escape.
we are rendered helpless when you spam it on us stealthers.

you pull Everyone out of escape by stunning them, knocking them down, Damaging them, and killing them with Streak over and over and over and over until they are Dead.
that is something stealth and invisibility and cloak can Never do.

Streak is not „pure damage“. The damage is so low that if you’re getting killed by it getting applied „over and over and over and over“ you’re not a good rogue and probably balance discussions shouldn’t be a high priority either.

Gilvoth · March 2018

Feanor wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

@Jade1986 and @kypranb14_ESO

So what's your point, exactly? Are you trying to tell this forum that streak is a better escape tool than cloak???

cloak is for our stealth and rouge playstyle.

your streak is pure Damage and crowd control, even though you sometimes use it in Emergencies as an escape tool, you mainly use it to pull us out of stealth and out of escape.
we are rendered helpless when you spam it on us stealthers.

you pull Everyone out of escape by stunning them, knocking them down, Damaging them, and killing them with Streak over and over and over and over until they are Dead.
that is something stealth and invisibility and cloak can Never do.

Streak is not „pure damage“. The damage is so low that if you’re getting killed by it getting applied „over and over and over and over“ you’re not a good rogue and probably balance discussions shouldn’t be a high priority either.

oh that is infact false
lets take a look at its text ...

and then you immediate apply this

as we are trying to break free, you cast your skill probably 3 x max and people are dead.
the comparison to our sneaking away with cloak is nilch, and void.

Feanor · March 2018

@dwemer_paleologist

I‘m very sorry to break this to you, but people =/ you. Not everyone in PvP is a not so good player. Also, posting outdated skill pictures (CF still has the stun) doesn’t really support your arguments. Besides, Battle Spirit cuts these values in half.

If you’re getting killed by Streak this speaks for itself and there’s not really much more to say.

smacky · March 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

@Jade1986 and @kypranb14_ESO

So what's your point, exactly? Are you trying to tell this forum that streak is a better escape tool than cloak???

cloak is for our stealth and rouge playstyle.

your streak is pure Damage and crowd control, even though you sometimes use it in Emergencies as an escape tool, you mainly use it to pull us out of stealth and out of escape.
we are rendered helpless when you spam it on us stealthers.

you pull Everyone out of escape by stunning them, knocking them down, Damaging them, and killing them with Streak over and over and over and over until they are Dead.
that is something stealth and invisibility and cloak can Never do.

Streak is not „pure damage“. The damage is so low that if you’re getting killed by it getting applied „over and over and over and over“ you’re not a good rogue and probably balance discussions shouldn’t be a high priority either.

oh that is infact false
lets take a look at its text ...

and then you immediate apply this

as we are trying to break free, you cast your skill probably 3 x max and people are dead.
the comparison to our sneaking away with cloak is nilch, and void.

Overload Light attack has nothing to do with Bolt Escape. Overload is an Ultimate ability, which the screenshot shows 3 critical hits from.

The damage is Low, in fact unless you choose Streak 1, it is 0 Damage. It stuns enemies for 2 seconds, and lets be realistic, the animation time takes nearly that long anyway.

Sky_WK · March 2018

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

There is a huge gap between how streak works and how cloak works.

Cloak is almost useless when you have high tier snares on you or are affected by any damage-after-time abilities.

Streak can be used when snared, immobilized, affected by any effect other than stuns really.

Have you ever streaked while immobilized? Lol, doesn't do much but burn magicka

bardx86 · March 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

@Jade1986 and @kypranb14_ESO

So what's your point, exactly? Are you trying to tell this forum that streak is a better escape tool than cloak???

cloak is for our stealth and rouge playstyle.

your streak is pure Damage and crowd control, even though you sometimes use it in Emergencies as an escape tool, you mainly use it to pull us out of stealth and out of escape.
we are rendered helpless when you spam it on us stealthers.

you pull Everyone out of escape by stunning them, knocking them down, Damaging them, and killing them with Streak over and over and over and over until they are Dead.
that is something stealth and invisibility and cloak can Never do.

Streak is not „pure damage“. The damage is so low that if you’re getting killed by it getting applied „over and over and over and over“ you’re not a good rogue and probably balance discussions shouldn’t be a high priority either.

oh that is infact false
lets take a look at its text ...

and then you immediate apply this

as we are trying to break free, you cast your skill probably 3 x max and people are dead.
the comparison to our sneaking away with cloak is nilch, and void.

The guys has to be the worst PVPer in the history of ESO.

Datthaw · March 2018

Hell yeah nerf magwarden

DHale · March 2018

Ha ha good one, to think he reads the forums lol... good one....

Beardimus · March 2018

King_Thelon wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel

10 updates ago, you nerfed streak to the ground, making sorcerer the only class in the history of the game that is punished with a stacking cost to an ability:

ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »

Bolt Escape: This ability no longer reduces out-of-combat Magicka recovery after casting. We have also increased the cost for Bolt Escape by 50%, which stacks with each cast within four seconds.

Sorcerer's escaping or resetting fights at will is OP. Nightblade's escaping or resetting fights at will is fine.

You don't need to nerf cloak; it's a fun and useful escape tool. But you do need to return that same fun and useful escape tool to the sorcerer's kit.

Thelon you get my vote for king.

Anyone that thinks Streak is op these days is a NOOB

#BuffSorc

Beardimus · March 2018

NyassaV wrote: »

Streak and Cloak are EXTREMELY different. You can escape pretty much 100% of the time after streaking 4 times. There is no guarantee that you'll escape if you spam cloak 8 times

Hilarious utterly hilarious.

Gilvoth · March 2018

you guys are under the belief that a constant

"forum complaint light attack"

and

"daily repeatable comment in a nerf / buff class request thread"

will help in buffing your class damage and / or class nerf, and you are Completely Right, but my only request is that your comments are based on truth and true to what happens ingame.

here in this thread, and the other ones you spam daily just are not honest in comment content honesty, and what is being presented as fact, nor are your daily comments requesting that your class be buffed or other classes nerfed.

King_Thelon · March 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

you guys are under the belief that a constant

"forum complaint light attack"

and

"daily repeatable comment in a nerf / buff class request thread"

will help in buffing your class damage and / or class nerf, and you are Completely Right, but my only request is that your comments are based on truth and true to what happens ingame.

here in this thread, and the other ones you spam daily just are not honest in comment content honesty, and what is being presented as fact, nor are your daily comments requesting that your class be buffed or other classes nerfed.

Psychological Projection: a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.For example, a person who is habitually biased may constantly accuse other people of being biased.

josiahva · March 2018

From my view(stam DK and mag DK for the most part) both streak and cloak are about equal. I dont have any problem using a gap closer to stay on a streaker...and I dont have any problem pulling a nightblade out of stealth with the appropriate mages guild or fighters guild skills. In other words...both abilities have counters accessible to any class...but both abilities will get you away from people who play without those counters slotted.

Zorgon_The_Revenged · March 2018

Any other class able to solo the Mantikora or IC's Molag Bal? I'm honestly interested.

I'm not asking for a sorc nerf, I just want to see the other classes do it.

Gilvoth · March 2018

if your request was created out of honesty that your skill is in some way Bad or weak then this would be worth posting in daily to create a belief that your class is weak in some form.
However, this just isnt the case when we see you inGame immediately target and Kill within seconds any nightblades First and Formost.
thus showing and Proving that class as being inferior, and an easy Target because of it's imbalanced weaknesses due to the fact nightblade relies on stealth to survive.

since we now see your constant

"forum light attack"

to keep this thread alive and on the most viewed thread as a means to weaken or eliminate that classes skills and abilities implies something much different then what the forums were created for.

the fact of the matter reamains that the sorcerer class skills are Greater in strength then what you have led "in this thread" us to believe.

Gilvoth · March 2018

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

Any other class able to solo the Mantikora or IC's Molag Bal? I'm honestly interested.

I'm not asking for a sorc nerf, I just want to see the other classes do it.

Chilly-McFreeze · March 2018

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

Any other class able to solo the Mantikora or IC's Molag Bal? I'm honestly interested.

I'm not asking for a sorc nerf, I just want to see the other classes do it.

Unless they do that via streak spam I don't see what this contributes to the topic.

Gilvoth · March 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

Any other class able to solo the Mantikora or IC's Molag Bal? I'm honestly interested.

I'm not asking for a sorc nerf, I just want to see the other classes do it.

Unless they do that via streak spam I don't see what this contributes to the topic.

because the class being referred to is overbuffed in skill damage that includes the use of streak skill.

Zorgon_The_Revenged · March 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

Any other class able to solo the Mantikora or IC's Molag Bal? I'm honestly interested.

I'm not asking for a sorc nerf, I just want to see the other classes do it.

Unless they do that via streak spam I don't see what this contributes to the topic.

I love the sorc playstyle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zRhZpG4-30

kadar · March 2018

King_Thelon wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel

10 updates ago, you nerfed streak to the ground, making sorcerer the only class in the history of the game that is punished with a stacking cost to an ability:

ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »

Bolt Escape: This ability no longer reduces out-of-combat Magicka recovery after casting. We have also increased the cost for Bolt Escape by 50%, which stacks with each cast within four seconds.

Sorcerer's escaping or resetting fights at will is OP. Nightblade's escaping or resetting fights at will is fine.

You don't need to nerf cloak; it's a fun and useful escape tool. But you do need to return that same fun and useful escape tool to the sorcerer's kit.

Coming from the opposite perspective as you (100 hours on a NB), yea I'd agree Cloak is skill-to-skill stronger than Streak atm.

Although note, this is only the case because Cloak now functions more-or-less properly...Frankly it's been hell trying to use this ability as a defensive mechanism the last few years. "Fixed Cloak" has been in every patch note since ever.