Werewolf Theorycrafting (PvP)

Qbiken · March 2018

LegendaryMage wrote: »

@Qbiken

My reply is a bit longer so I will construct it into several categories that you can read in order, or skip at whatever you prefer.

On the Issue of Buffs & Nerfs
I'm not a big fan of nerfing things, as I believe it promotes bland and boring gameplay. This is one of the main balancing problems of ESO nowadays. In addition to at least half of all skills and armor sets in the game being relics of the past that nobody has bothered to update for years. We agree on that.

We also agree that WW should not be nerfed, me stating that it's overpowered does not mean that I would nerf it, it means that relative to other things in the game it's overpowered, and therefore other things should be brought up to par with it (not necessarily talking about WWs here, but in general).

I think that's a good principle that anyone who has been playing for some time can agree on.

I think we've all had enough of nerfs and would rather start seeing some buffs (ex, my own primary class, sorcerer which has been nerfed in every single way since the launch of the game).

Werewolf Gameplay & Build Decisions in General
Our WW build would focus on decent sustain, really high tankiness and very high healing along with decent magicka sustain.

This is needed because if we go full damage with insane maximum stamina, we will be locked into spamming heavy attacks and outside of 1v1s, this does not work in Cyrodiil well, even if we're as tanky as it gets. It will get the wolf killed once without juice, which won't take long.

Damage would be boosted via dual wield and not necessarily the sets, since it's not possible to cover all aspects of the build and perform perfectly, so we have to make some decisions on how the build will play and why.

One of the best stamina sustain sets is bone pirate, and things will change here once jewelry crafting is introduced into the game, but for now we can go with that as it also benefits WW's increased max stamina.

Redguard also benefits us here but Argonian is just as good with increased tankiness and healing bonuses (potion passive offsets a little bit of redguard's stam regen and provides us with a boosted heal and more magicka).

Salvation set is not bad for the reduced cost, but it's inferior in actual combat, even with the weapon damage bonus.

If we're not going to use it, we need to figure out a way to gain more ultimate and get into WW form faster.

Ideally if we can get our ulty gain to 2x the normal value, that would mean our ultimate cost is twice as cheaper effectively.

The build would work with salvation too of course, so it's not necessarily bad to go for salvation AND increased ulty gain, for maximum transformations. It's an option to be considered certainly.

Storing up ultimate faster can be achieved in other ways, such as minor heroism + decisive backbar weapon, as well as class passives such as the ones that DKs have. WW ultimate costs a lot so ANY additional ultimate gains will be important here.

WW Classes & Benefits
Any class can work, but certain classes will give more benefits in practical scenarios.

Sorcerers have power stone to help here, but my class of choice would be the DK simply because battleroar with a high cost ultimate (that we can regenerate faster) will effectively reset the fight once you transform, giving you space to go offensive immediately rather than spam heavy attacks or worry about low magicka to heal up.

Templars benefit from 4% cost reduction on everything and 6% weapon damage, as well as some spell resistance (DK has more of it at the cost of some weapon damage). So far DK is ahead due to battleroar.

Wardens (to the best of my knowledge) do not have much (if at all) to offer, so I'll skip those.

And finally NBs have some increased sustain options (15% recoveries) that always apply, as well as the potion ultimate passive.

With all that being considered, we have to remember that we will be spending time in human form in big fights so staying alive and being of use is also important. DK comes ahead here again with skills such as talons, fossilize, scales (remember, we will have decent magicka sustain so a tank/utility support build will be active while in human form on our s/b bar) etc.

DKs can also heal up with dragon blood based on missing health, so we can use more of our stamina to block, dodge and apply debuffs (ex, heroic slash).

With all this considered, DK would be the clear winner in my opinion, mainly due to;

- class tankiness and passives
- ability to last and provide utility/support while in human form
- heal up based on missing health without using weak honor the dead's (not that high max magicka or spell damage) or vigors.

WW Race Choices
Here we need to consider absolutely everything. Not just how effective we're while in WW form, but out of it, and also certain other things, such as maybe not being interested to play WW one day and still having a nicely useable character to work with.

Races that I would consider for WW would be:

- Redguard, Orc, Argonian & possibly Dark Elf/Imperial as a last resort.

Imperial would be good if red diamond worked like adrenaline rush, but redguard wins here clearly. Dark Elf would be decent if one day we want to convert that Dragonknight into a magicka DK (or even a stamina one since we have a little bit of extra stamina).

Orc would be decent for a stam DK and a werewolf setup, and Argonian would be the best jack of all trades races, giving you the option to play both magicka & stamina dk if you're not a WW one day, and still benefit you nicely as a WW due to tankiness and immunity to poison status effect & minor defile (if they didn't change it, or they don't change it).

For me, the clear winner here is Argonian due to the race's incredible versatility and options it provides.

WW Sets & Bonuses
Here there are as many opinions as players that are playing. My personal choice of sets for a balanced approach in Cyrodiil would be;

- 5x bone pirate with double axes and s/b on backbar (and jewelry of course).

Primary axe would be nirnhoned and secondary either precise or powered for additional healing done.

Shield would be sturdy and backbar sword would be decisive for slightly more ultimate gains thanks to DK's passives, regular ulty gain and other minor bonuses like heroism.

- 5x Heavy shacklebreaker, full impenetrable with perhaps reinforced chest (I like my chests being reinforced as it slightly outperforms impene there). It needs to be ebony style of course.

- 2x Mighty Chudan for increased resistances from 1x bonus, and permanent major resistances while in WW form (if you're like me and absolutely detest pirate skeleton out of principle, we go with this). Also heavy and impene.

All gear can go tri-stat glyphs or small pieces maximum stamina if you can't afford full tri-stat.

CPs I will skip for now, I'll have to review them again, but increased resource return from heavy attacks, in addition to dodge roll and breakfree reduction, with a bit of magicka/stamina regen.

Weapon enchantments are up for discussion, there are different options here.

Magicka & Healing Sustain - Gear + Consumables
One of the most important things will be our magicka sustain and healing power. Since we're an Argonian in heavy armor, we already get some nice bonuses, and we complement them with about 5% increased healing done in the blue CP constellation, and at least 5-8% in the red one.

We sustain magicka via shacklebreaker, constitution, bit of CPs, tri-stat potions and Argonian passives.

Alternatively, if we do not use bone pirate, we can use salvation with Orzoga's legendary food buff that will give us all recoveries, so in the end we will also have around 1k health recovery AND even higher magicka recovery, at the cost of some damage, so certainly an option to consider.

BP+ dubious will give you a lot more stamina, and more stamina regen at the cost of ultimate's cost and magicka sustain, but this is totally up to you. I'd personally go with BP + dubious to be more effective while in WW form, and to also dodge roll more.

A good way to increase your healing capability is to simply become more tanky, so you have to heal less.

This will benefit your magicka sustain, as well as offset problems with defile a bit since you'll be taking less damage and your heals will effectively do more against it.

And since we already have all of those healing done and taken bonuses along with tankiness, defile is much less severe to deal with.

Closing Words
M'aiq is done talking now, go bother somebody else.
[/quote9]

Thank´s for the insight, whenever you´ve access to your CP-setup I would be very interested in trying it out. I´ve an Argonian DK almost ready for a build like this. Just need to hunt some more Skyshards and level up a few more skillines

Chrlynsch · March 2018

@LegendaryMage

My stance on the werewolf heavy attack sustain is it is very very strong. But it also has a hard counter in play. Which I feel makes it balanced. I feel that the counters are not wildly known and is why wolves can be very dangerous.

1. It is melee with a short range. Unlike a staff you can't safely use it from a distance. It is easy to kite a werewolf and stay out of range by utilizing snares as they have no way to shake it.

2. Werewolf abilities are very expensive compared to any stamina class or weapon abilites. This makes cost increase poisons more powerful against wolves. Even the increased 15% isn't enough to counter the natural increased costs. Besides Regen and pots werewolves have no other avenue for stamina return. No undaunted synergy, no orbs or shards, no dark deal, no netch, no repentance, no helping hands, no leeching strikes.

3. You can dodge and block the sustain of the wolf. Blocking or dodging a heavy attack will directly stop a werewolf's heavy attack resource return. Werewolf heavy attacks are very easy to spot and should be easy for skilled players to shut down. While performing this action (fear into heavy attack) this leaves the wolf open to attack for 2 seconds.

LegendaryMage · March 2018

Chrlynsch wrote: »

@LegendaryMage

My stance on the werewolf heavy attack sustain is it is very very strong. But it also has a hard counter in play. Which I feel makes it balanced. I feel that the counters are not wildly known and is why wolves can be very dangerous.

1. It is melee with a short range. Unlike a staff you can't safely use it from a distance. It is easy to kite a werewolf and stay out of range by utilizing snares as they have no way to shake it.

2. Werewolf abilities are very expensive compared to any stamina class or weapon abilites. This makes cost increase poisons more powerful against wolves. Even the increased 15% isn't enough to counter the natural increased costs. Besides Regen and pots werewolves have no other avenue for stamina return. No undaunted synergy, no orbs or shards, no dark deal, no netch, no repentance, no helping hands, no leeching strikes.

3. You can dodge and block the sustain of the wolf. Blocking or dodging a heavy attack will directly stop a werewolf's heavy attack resource return. Werewolf heavy attacks are very easy to spot and should be easy for skilled players to shut down. While performing this action (fear into heavy attack) this leaves the wolf open to attack for 2 seconds.

Thank you, finally someone who actually knows how to discuss things.

Yes, point 3 is obvious, my sorc has always been very strong in the acrobatic area, especially now with amberplasm and shacklebreaker combined, so dodging and blocking (or just staying out of range) definitely works for me. I have 0 problems killing wolves, only thing that would sometimes annoy me was the unbreakable CC when transforming or fearing, but that's just a game issue.

However, not so much for melee opponents, since if they're locked into dodging or blocking the heavy attack spam, they won't be doing much of attacking either. 2 seconds is not as long as it seems, so spamming these and blocking/dodging them as melee build can be problematic since there's a strong bleed (sometimes two with axes) and the heavy attacks hurt like hell too, usually wolves have them boosted in CPs.

Point 2 is understandable, however wolves also benefit from class passives, so it's not like they don't have anything to sustain with, and even if we disregard the 100% bonus, 25% from heavy, 10% from cps, bit of constitution and a decent build should not render a wolf stamina hungry at all times, then that's a bad build that literally depends on heavy attacking, in my book that's a cheesy build that would never function if it didn't crutch on one mechanic.

Also in addition to point 2, werewolf skills are expensive indeed, but for a good reason. They're very strong abilities that synergize well together.

Also, look at all the benefits that you get while in WW form. It's not like 10k resistances, 25% extra stamina which scales incredibly well with certain races and gear, and a strong bleed effect on light attacks is nothing.

It's quite a few things along with class passives that they do retain while in wolf form.

The drawbacks of being a WW are much less punishing than vampires too.

So all in all, if WW's heavy attack passive restore is overpowered, it's not because something changed with WWs, it's because the meta changed in the meantime.

Back when I was playing WW and ripping through people like butter, I never had access to more than half the gear in the game now, I never had the extra heavy armor resource return (it was block cost reduce back then) or tenacity (not that I remember) etc.

Did I feel once that it was underpowered? Not at all, I always felt WW was crazy strong, the thing is that most players just don't want to play as a furry wolf, that's all.

Nelson_Rebel · March 2018

I Guess not having access to an entire back bar of other skills doesnt even it out? Or access to any of passive abilities that the classes get just from having them slotted

To OP plz nerf.

Thats essentially how you sound @LegendaryMage

LegendaryMage · March 2018

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

I Guess not having access to an entire back bar of other skills doesnt even it out? Or access to any of passive abilities that the classes get just from having them slottedd

To OP plz nerf.

Thats essentially how you sound @LegendaryMage

So what exactly are you trying to say now, that WW is fine, that WW is underpowered or that WW is overpowered? I just can't see your point unfortunately.

Nelson_Rebel · March 2018

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

I Guess not having access to an entire back bar of other skills doesnt even it out? Or access to any of passive abilities that the classes get just from having them slottedd

To OP plz nerf.

Thats essentially how you sound @LegendaryMage

So what exactly are you trying to say now, that WW is fine, that WW is underpowered or that WW is overpowered? I just can't see your point unfortunately.

I was mocking your complete overview when ignoring that while yes, werewolf gets an OK resource return on a SUCCESFUL heavy attack that isnt; dodged,blocked, or kited

You forgot to mention everything a werewolf gives up in exchange for that ONE decent passive. Namely an entire backbar of skills, and relying on close range Heavy attack for their ONLY form of sustain.

Is that easier to comprehend?

Chrlynsch · March 2018

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

@LegendaryMage

My stance on the werewolf heavy attack sustain is it is very very strong. But it also has a hard counter in play. Which I feel makes it balanced. I feel that the counters are not wildly known and is why wolves can be very dangerous.

1. It is melee with a short range. Unlike a staff you can't safely use it from a distance. It is easy to kite a werewolf and stay out of range by utilizing snares as they have no way to shake it.

2. Werewolf abilities are very expensive compared to any stamina class or weapon abilites. This makes cost increase poisons more powerful against wolves. Even the increased 15% isn't enough to counter the natural increased costs. Besides Regen and pots werewolves have no other avenue for stamina return. No undaunted synergy, no orbs or shards, no dark deal, no netch, no repentance, no helping hands, no leeching strikes.

3. You can dodge and block the sustain of the wolf. Blocking or dodging a heavy attack will directly stop a werewolf's heavy attack resource return. Werewolf heavy attacks are very easy to spot and should be easy for skilled players to shut down. While performing this action (fear into heavy attack) this leaves the wolf open to attack for 2 seconds.

Thank you, finally someone who actually knows how to discuss things.

Yes, point 3 is obvious, my sorc has always been very strong in the acrobatic area, especially now with amberplasm and shacklebreaker combined, so dodging and blocking (or just staying out of range) definitely works for me. I have 0 problems killing wolves, only thing that would sometimes annoy me was the unbreakable CC when transforming or fearing, but that's just a game issue.

However, not so much for melee opponents, since if they're locked into dodging or blocking the heavy attack spam, they won't be doing much of attacking either. 2 seconds is not as long as it seems, so spamming these and blocking/dodging them as melee build can be problematic since there's a strong bleed (sometimes two with axes) and the heavy attacks hurt like hell too, usually wolves have them boosted in CPs.

Point 2 is understandable, however wolves also benefit from class passives, so it's not like they don't have anything to sustain with, and even if we disregard the 100% bonus, 25% from heavy, 10% from cps, bit of constitution and a decent build should not render a wolf stamina hungry at all times, then that's a bad build that literally depends on heavy attacking, in my book that's a cheesy build that would never function if it didn't crutch on one mechanic.

Also in addition to point 2, werewolf skills are expensive indeed, but for a good reason. They're very strong abilities that synergize well together.

Also, look at all the benefits that you get while in WW form. It's not like 10k resistances, 25% extra stamina which scales incredibly well with certain races and gear, and a strong bleed effect on light attacks is nothing.

It's quite a few things along with class passives that they do retain while in wolf form.

The drawbacks of being a WW are much less punishing than vampires too.

So all in all, if WW's heavy attack passive restore is overpowered, it's not because something changed with WWs, it's because the meta changed in the meantime.

Back when I was playing WW and ripping through people like butter, I never had access to more than half the gear in the game now, I never had the extra heavy armor resource return (it was block cost reduce back then) or tenacity (not that I remember) etc.

Did I feel once that it was underpowered? Not at all, I always felt WW was crazy strong, the thing is that most players just don't want to play as a furry wolf, that's all.

You seem to make a couple of untrue assumtions.

1. Wolves only benefit from specific class passives that don't require slotting or using abilites. Most classes only carry over a couple class passives. Nightblade specifically is the only class to take over a stamina Regen passive and that is the only passive it takes with it from its entire class line.

2. Werewolves don't take any weapon passives over with them. So the only way you would have a dual wield/two hand bleed is if you proc it before going into werewolf form.

Sharee · March 2018

LegendaryMage wrote: »

However, not so much for melee opponents, since if they're locked into dodging or blocking the heavy attack spam, they won't be doing much of attacking either. 2 seconds is not as long as it seems, so spamming these and blocking/dodging them as melee build can be problematic since there's a strong bleed (sometimes two with axes) and the heavy attacks hurt like hell too, usually wolves have them boosted in CPs.

Here is a short video for anyone who believes 2 seconds is not as long as it seems, and that landing a 2-second long WW heavy attack on a melee opponent is easy:

https://youtu.be/oMi-7K7oXH4

Chrlynsch · March 2018

Sharee wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

However, not so much for melee opponents, since if they're locked into dodging or blocking the heavy attack spam, they won't be doing much of attacking either. 2 seconds is not as long as it seems, so spamming these and blocking/dodging them as melee build can be problematic since there's a strong bleed (sometimes two with axes) and the heavy attacks hurt like hell too, usually wolves have them boosted in CPs.

Here is a short video for anyone who believes 2 seconds is not as long as it seems, and that landing a 2-second long WW heavy attack on a melee opponent is easy:
https://youtu.be/oMi-7K7oXH4

Werewolf life... no snare don't care.

LegendaryMage · March 2018

@Nelson_Rebel & @Mangeli200194 you two are a perfect example of PVP players who seem to think they know a bit more than they do. Please keep your toxic remarks to yourself next time and do not waste my time with your nonsense.

@Chrlynsch My points still stand, the player in the video is not landing heavy attacks because he's not putting out any pressure either, and hence the stam sorc is free to maneuver around as he pleases. This is a l2p issue I'm afraid. He could have easily landed more heavy attacks if he actually pressured the sorcerer into either spamming dark deal and being countered by defile, or when fighting back and more stationary himself.

Araxyte · March 2018

I've never played werewolf before but would love to give it a go on my StamSorc orc. I was thinking about using troll king monster set and how it would stack nicely with 20% health regen orc passive. Not sure if this would work but theoretically you wouldn't need to worry so much about magicka for healing?

IlCanis_LupuslI · March 2018

LegendaryMage wrote: »

@Mangeli200194 I played WW before you even knew how to transform into one, so lecturing me on how one plays and its strengths and weaknesses is really not needed.

You should also calm down a bit, just because you read something you don't like, doesn't mean you have to go into full I'm right & you're wrong mode. It's a discussion, ok? Cool it a bit.

Also, it's not 'substain', it's sustain, so please learn that before telling me more about it.

Reply @Aznox
Building a werewolf for duels and open world PVP are two different things. Most players don't know how to build either so to them it's perfectly balanced due to ignorance and lack of gameplay experience.

The forums are not the best place to get an opinion on what's balanced and what's not, there are many players who talk a lot but don't really know what they're talking about. Theorycrafting is fine, but balancing comments from yet another PVPer just make me close that tab instantly in most cases.

With that being said, I'd be happy to share a WW build or two, I'm 99% sure that I already have a fully built WW on PTS (unless they deleted it already) that I occasionally re-visit and take a look at, not only for testing out stuff but also for having a feel of how to best counter one.

I think we had some nice fights in Bergama if I'm not mistaken, you were very hard to kill in WW form and I'm not sure if you were in heavy or not, but WW in medium is pretty much a normal player in heavy due to almost 10k additional resistances.

Granted, I haven't played the game for 4 months but I always remember WWs being crazy strong in 1v1 so we can't argue that really.

Reply @Qbiken
WW skills are expensive for a reason. They hit like a truck on a capable build, so 'spamming' them has to come at a cost.

Look, I've built up my WW on PTS (maybe they deleted it recently), and I can tell you that my build has very decent damage (this is for Cyrodiil, not duels), insane healing capabilities (7 heavy Argonian with decent CP investments and full impene), very good magicka sustain thanks to shacklebreaker, constitution, argo's potion passives and tri-stats, very good stamina sustain thanks to bone pirate, dubious and serpent stone, and insane tankiness with (if I remember well), well over 45k resistances so we can negate that spell/physical pen and still be at the cap, and I get this by wearing 2x Chudan because I'm not a fan of pirate skeleton and I hope it gets nerfed into the ground.

And of course it's dual wield for maximum damage bonuses and stats, while off-bar is s/b and you go for decisive and more ultimate regen bonuses (heroic slash etc). so you go faster into WW mode.

DKs are the most practical class thanks to battleroar resetting the fight once you transform, as well as utility like talons/fossilize until you transform, but even templars can work with a bit of weapon damage bonus and some cost reduction on all skills and ultimates.

Now, is this unbalanced? Could be.

But now is 100% stamina return + 25% from heavy + 10% from CPs AND occasionally another 100% on TOP of that when someone is off balance (and they will be), balanced? Not in the slightest, I'm sorry but let's not be wolf biased too much.

This has nothing to do with you, but I also don't buy arguments that say that something is fine because not many are doing it, and therefore isn't over the top or else everyone would be doing it. This is wrong on so many levels I won't even discuss it.

Chasing meta is one thing, but meta has never been the best way to be effective in PVP, contrary to what it implies.

You can copy someone and go up there, but ultimately what you do alone is what will make you a better player, and therefore more effective in PVP. Meta changes every patch or two, skills are more permanent.

To give you an example, I don't have to play this game for 6 months and come back on a semi-outdated build and still go toe to toe with anyone, so that's proof that investing in yourself as a player is the most important thing one can do.

Again, nothing to do with you, just some of my observations with regards to how players think and play in general.

I like WW but let's not pretend that heavy attack stamina sustain is not out of control if built right and knowing how to take advantage of it. Which was the whole point of my previous post, it makes WW overpowered and there's no hiding from it no matter how we 'pack' it.

If you still think I'm wrong, I'll just quote another player who put it more simply.

Aznox wrote: »

As Werewolf, your fear will also apply the off-balance status.
Heavy attacking an off-balance enemy will give you back around 12k stamina.
(Heavy attack + Heavy armor bonus (25%) + Werewolf bonus (100%) + off-balance bonus (100%) + CP bonus (0-15%))

Doing this every 7 seconds is equal to 3400 stamina regen : problem solved

LegendaryMage wrote: »

This is one of the main reasons why WW is broken. That much resources from a simple heavy attack while being in heavy armor and benefiting from insane resistances as WW, as well as having access to decent damage sets and increased healing is just way over the top.

Aznox · March 2018

Araxyte wrote: »

I've never played werewolf before but would love to give it a go on my StamSorc orc. I was thinking about using troll king monster set and how it would stack nicely with 20% health regen orc passive. Not sure if this would work but theoretically you wouldn't need to worry so much about magicka for healing?

Go back a few pages in this thread (before all the drama) and you will see relevant information about Troll King.
In my opinion Orc StamSorc Troll King is the best basis for a good werewold build, just add heavy shacklebreaker and a third set of your choice

Sharee · March 2018

Araxyte wrote: »

I've never played werewolf before but would love to give it a go on my StamSorc orc. I was thinking about using troll king monster set and how it would stack nicely with 20% health regen orc passive. Not sure if this would work but theoretically you wouldn't need to worry so much about magicka for healing?

My WW is an orc with troll king(atm at least). When TK procs, my health regen is just a bit over 3000. This is without any other sources of health regen (besides TK and the orc passive). The effect on survival is noticeable, but you still need the regular heals.

Datolite · March 2018

What about dumping all enchants and stats into stamina regen and just running lingering health/speed pots with TK?

Aznox · March 2018

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

What about dumping all enchants and stats into stamina regen and just running lingering health/speed pots with TK?

I run [Lingering Health + Speed] or [Lingering Health + Health + Invisibility], i also use Troll King

Doesn't change the fact that, in my opinion :

- Full prismatic is the best enchant choice by far

- It's better to put weapon damage jewelry and get stamina regen from heavy attacks

Sharee · March 2018

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

What about dumping all enchants and stats into stamina regen and just running lingering health/speed pots with TK?

I don't think TK alone will be able to keep you alive against enemy burst unless you go all-in on health regen (orgnum's scales, beekeeper, health regen food, health regen jewelry). And you would still need high HP to give TK time do it's thing without being instagibbed.

Aznox · March 2018

@Qbiken Are you still able to edit the first post of this thread ? We have accumulated quite a lot of knowledge and feedback inside these 15 pages of discussion, and we are starting to answer the same questions several time.
Could be nice if we could regroup some facts or main opinion groups somewhere.

Qbiken · March 2018

Aznox wrote: »

@Qbiken Are you still able to edit the first post of this thread ? We have accumulated quite a lot of knowledge and feedback inside these 15 pages of discussion, and we are starting to answer the same questions several time.
Could be nice if we could regroup some facts or main opinion groups somewhere.

Will edit original post to some kind of summarize when I get the time for it

Hopefully the thread hasn´t been closed or removed by then......

Aznox · March 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

Will edit original post to some kind of summarize when I get the time for it
Hopefully later today.

Could be nice to organize things in topics, maybe with spoilers for readability

Choice or armor and weapon sets:

Medium versus Heavy armor:

Facts:
Opinions:

X said

blabla

Y said

blabla

The "Pelinal's way":

Pelinal's phililosophy

The "Shacklebreaker route":

Blabla max stats blabla

The Werewolf skill line:

Passive skills:

Pursuit

WHILE IN WEREWOLF FORM:
Increases Heavy Attack Stamina return by 100%.

Facts
- Stacks with heavy armor passive (+25%), CP (+0-15%) and off-balance (+100%) bonus stamina gain on successful heavy attack.
- Can get you more than 12k stamina against off-balance enemies (if they don't block or dodge)

Opinions
- One of the reasons Werewolf doesn't need stamina recovery and should always be wearing 5/1/1 heavy armor.

Devour

Allows you to devour corpses to increase the duration of your Werewolf Transformation by 12 seconds.

Facts
- 14.4 seconds with Call of the pact
- you need to be targeting the corpses for the synergy to appear/work, if needed take one step back and look down
- if your enemy respawns before the end, your timer won't be extended
- don't move until you see the timer extension or you will need to start against
- also provides a small heal on completion

Opinions
- bit of a taunt but you are forced to use it, not your fault !

Blood Rage

WHILE IN WEREWOLF FORM:
Increases time in werewolf form by 3 seconds every time you take damage. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds

Facts
- 3.6 seconds with Call of the pact
- as long as you are fighting you can stay transformed without end thanks to this

Active skills:

Werewolf PVP environments:

Battleground:

Cyrodiil:

Duel:

Race and Class:

wendal · March 2018

Had this marked up till now and was enjoying the useful info in this thread, it appears to have derailed significantly.
Looking forward to reorganisation of first post.
Many thanks to all the wolves who contributed so far.
May hircine ever guide your hunt

Datolite · March 2018

Aznox wrote: »

@Mangeli200194 and @LegendaryMage

Please stop your duo of aggression/provocation or we will get a mod to clean up this thread from off-topic and negative comments.

I've already started sending reports. I suggest everyone does the same.

Back to on topic, you're right about prismatic glyphs. Do you use Troll King and Pelinals?

Aznox · March 2018

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

Do you use Troll King and Pelinals?

In my opinion Troll King and Pelinals are exclusive :

If you go the Troll King route, shacklebreaker boost the heal enough for burst heal when needed

If you go Pelinal, you want to maximize Weapon damage and some form of magicka sustain enough so that Troll King isn't needed

ZOS_Ragnar · March 2018

We have removed several posts that were flaming and disruptive to the discussion. When encountering others whose views differ from your own, please remember to stick to debating the topic and avoid personal attacks and insults. Please keep your future posts civil and constructive. While this thread is in general about the werewolf skill line, it is focused on theory crafting. Other discussions on werewolves such as, if the skills are is over or under powered, would be better off if discussed in a different thread.

Aznox · March 2018

For those who may have asked themselves the same question : i tested "Curse of Doleymish" set again yesterday :

Question :
If you heavy attack an off-balance enemy and the heavy attack stuns the enemy (because the enemy is not CC immune, so the Off-balance can't come from Rousing Roar), does it proc Curse of Doleymish ? (aka does the stun status comes before the heavy attack damage)

Answer :
Unfortunately, no. Heavy attack is applied, then stun, so no proc. if you heavy attack again it procs against a monster but a player in pvp would have already CC break.

Chrlynsch · March 2018

Aznox wrote: »

For those who may have asked themselves the same question : i tested "Curse of Doleymish" set again yesterday :

Question :
If you heavy attack an off-balance enemy and the heavy attack stuns the enemy (because the enemy is not CC immune, so the Off-balance can't come from Rousing Roar), does it proc Curse of Doleymish ? (aka does the stun status comes before the heavy attack damage)

Answer :
Unfortunately, no. Heavy attack is applied, then stun, so no proc. if you heavy attack again it procs against a monster but a player in pvp would have already CC break.

I could see it as a really strong set for a werewolf... if you are working with another werewolf or werewolves. Someone sets up the fear and doleymish wearer winds up a heavy at the same time.

Follow up question what's the order of operation on an immobilize poison?

Chrlynsch · March 2018

Aznox wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

I've never played werewolf before but would love to give it a go on my StamSorc orc. I was thinking about using troll king monster set and how it would stack nicely with 20% health regen orc passive. Not sure if this would work but theoretically you wouldn't need to worry so much about magicka for healing?

Go back a few pages in this thread (before all the drama) and you will see relevant information about Troll King.
In my opinion Orc StamSorc Troll King is the best basis for a good werewold build, just add heavy shacklebreaker and a third set of your choice

I've ran both Shackelbreaker and Mechanical Acuity on my stam sorc orc... and in my opinion MA is more fun. Notice I didn't say better. MA just gives your wolf a new burst mechanic and feels right on a werewolf, beastmode beastmode.

Ritter · March 2018

Ok guys, so what are we going to break with Jewelry crafting? Sorry ZOS :P

6 new traits for jewelry too, so obviously a bit early to speculate, but... no, it's not!

Aznox · March 2018

Me right now :

Qbiken · March 2018

Aznox wrote: »

Me right now :

@Aznox

Why Guile? Anything related to the ESO live stream?