If Psijic Order skill line is ONLY for Chapter Owners is it P2W?

Drpsychoball · March 2018

lol

McI · March 2018

All MMO's that I can think of off hand have something that you can only get in the newest DLC/Expansion/Chapter. If that happens to be gear, skills, or even class types.

In DAoC the TOA expansion offered artifacts that you can only get in those zones. DCUO and DAoC had classes you could only get from having certain DLC's. The list can go on and on.

I really feel that people don't understand a natural progresion of a game, and P2W.

ak_pvp · March 2018

Whatever its probably not P2W but judging from the warden in PvP (who would have guessed?) it might be overturned.

Imagine as a newb joining and then seeing getting bonked with skills locked behind a paywall. Sets, you can replace. Warden is a whole class, so you lose other class bonuses, but on the off chance they give it an OP ability its going to be problematic for a non payer.

That said its included as a chapter and not just pay walled like imperial, and being a skill line it's much easier to balance.

Hoping the data mined timestop is a cloak that works on mobs.

Thunderknuckles · March 2018

I know this will fall on deaf ears and blind eyes, BUT...Pay to Win means being almost forced to purchase with REAL MONEY BiS gear for PvP, giving the purchaser a significant advantage over other PvP'ers. It has nothing to do with having to purchase PvE DLC.

I honestly have no idea how these people who insist on free to play expect these companies to keep the doors open with no capital coming in. It reminds me of people in the 90's shouting, "The music MUST be free, man!". Yeah, well how're the musicians supposed to make a living then? On your good vibes and positive energy?

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · March 2018

New META:

+

Knowledge · March 2018

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

I know this will fall on deaf ears and blind eyes, BUT...Pay to Win means being almost forced to purchase with REAL MONEY BiS gear for PvP, giving the purchaser a significant advantage over other PvP'ers. It has nothing to do with having to purchase PvE DLC.

I honestly have no idea how these people who insist on free to play expect these companies to keep the doors open with no capital coming in. It reminds me of people in the 90's shouting, "The music MUST be free, man!". Yeah, well how're the musicians supposed to make a living then? On your good vibes and positive energy?

Say the skill line gave a passive that at its highest level morph gave an individual 5% more DPS. That isn't pay to win?

VaranisArano · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

I know this will fall on deaf ears and blind eyes, BUT...Pay to Win means being almost forced to purchase with REAL MONEY BiS gear for PvP, giving the purchaser a significant advantage over other PvP'ers. It has nothing to do with having to purchase PvE DLC.

I honestly have no idea how these people who insist on free to play expect these companies to keep the doors open with no capital coming in. It reminds me of people in the 90's shouting, "The music MUST be free, man!". Yeah, well how're the musicians supposed to make a living then? On your good vibes and positive energy?

Say the skill line gave a passive that at its highest level morph gave an individual 5% more DPS. That isn't pay to win?

Hypothetical skill line is hypothetically pay to win. Can't you have the decency to wait until its not hypothetical?

Thunderknuckles · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

I know this will fall on deaf ears and blind eyes, BUT...Pay to Win means being almost forced to purchase with REAL MONEY BiS gear for PvP, giving the purchaser a significant advantage over other PvP'ers. It has nothing to do with having to purchase PvE DLC.

I honestly have no idea how these people who insist on free to play expect these companies to keep the doors open with no capital coming in. It reminds me of people in the 90's shouting, "The music MUST be free, man!". Yeah, well how're the musicians supposed to make a living then? On your good vibes and positive energy?

Say the skill line gave a passive that at its highest level morph gave an individual 5% more DPS. That isn't pay to win?

Mmmm, that's borderline. Nothing like what P2W has always meant. Besides, as Varanis said, this is all hypothetical anyway. So far ZoS has not at all been guilty of P2W.

SilverIce58 · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

I know this will fall on deaf ears and blind eyes, BUT...Pay to Win means being almost forced to purchase with REAL MONEY BiS gear for PvP, giving the purchaser a significant advantage over other PvP'ers. It has nothing to do with having to purchase PvE DLC.

I honestly have no idea how these people who insist on free to play expect these companies to keep the doors open with no capital coming in. It reminds me of people in the 90's shouting, "The music MUST be free, man!". Yeah, well how're the musicians supposed to make a living then? On your good vibes and positive energy?

Say the skill line gave a passive that at its highest level morph gave an individual 5% more DPS. That isn't pay to win?

Hypothetically, sure I guess. But that's a hypothetical, which isn't going to happen, and consequently doesn't help your standing.

You guys watch, OPs going to quote only my "sure I guess" and be like "see I'm right".

klowdy1 · March 2018

P2W gets tossed about too easily these days. All games have expansions that offer content you have to own the game to use. I never heard P2W throughout all of WoW, the new elite specs from GW2 aren't considered P2W. Would you like the expansion for free? Maybe you think you deserve the expansion.

It still blows my mind people still think everything should just be given to them, and why, because you bought the game a long time ago, and have gotten hours of entertainment from it? That is exactly why expansions aren't free, and rewards aren't retroactive. You have gotten loads of play from this iteration of the game, time to cough up more for the new stuff. There needs to be some incentive to actually buy the new game.

Thal_J · March 2018

Vimora wrote: »

Give me a sec... who said Psijic is a combat skill line?

the animation files themselves are specifically combat animation files for the player

Thunderknuckles · March 2018

klowdy1 wrote: »

P2W gets tossed about too easily these days. All games have expansions that offer content you have to own the game to use. I never heard P2W throughout all of WoW, the new elite specs from GW2 aren't considered P2W. Would you like the expansion for free? Maybe you think you deserve the expansion.

It still blows my mind people still think everything should just be given to them, and why, because you bought the game a long time ago, and have gotten hours of entertainment from it? That is exactly why expansions aren't free, and rewards aren't retroactive. You have gotten loads of play from this iteration of the game, time to cough up more for the new stuff. There needs to be some incentive to actually buy the new game.

Absolutely agree. I have never understood the literal demand from people that it all just be free. Well, how about they not get paid for the work they do at their job (assuming they even have one)? Wouldn't it be just as fair for their employers to insist that "The labor must be free, d00d!" No one in their right mind would agree to that.

disintegr8 · March 2018

Don't hear too many people complaining anymore about Wardens being locked behind a paywall.

Lynx7386 · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Assume for a second that the Psijic Order line is a World Skill line that enhances the player character in some capacity instead of a new class. How will the community react to this? Would you accept it as it is just a skill line for expansion owners or argue it's pay to win assuming it enhances your character in some capacity in combat.

I for some reason doubt it's an entire new class. I feel they will do that with every other Chapter launch.

the only reason the warden requires morrowind to play is because ZOS was unsure of how to go about restricting access to the class should someone with ESO+ lose their subscription (as it is with current DLC packs).

The psijic skill line is 100% not going to be a new class, so there's no need for such a restriction. If you have ESO+ and you lose your subscription, you'll just lose access to the skill line.

AzraelKrieg · March 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Assume for a second that the Psijic Order line is a World Skill line that enhances the player character in some capacity instead of a new class. How will the community react to this? Would you accept it as it is just a skill line for expansion owners or argue it's pay to win assuming it enhances your character in some capacity in combat.

I for some reason doubt it's an entire new class. I feel they will do that with every other Chapter launch.

the only reason the warden requires morrowind to play is because ZOS was unsure of how to go about restricting access to the class should someone with ESO+ lose their subscription (as it is with current DLC packs).

The psijic skill line is 100% not going to be a new class, so there's no need for such a restriction. If you have ESO+ and you lose your subscription, you'll just lose access to the skill line.

You assume that the chapter will be part of ESO+. As ZOS have said in the past, Chapters are not part of ESO+ so any features that are included in it that aren't base game are locked behind the paywall.

zaria · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Assume for a second that the Psijic Order line is a World Skill line that enhances the player character in some capacity instead of a new class. How will the community react to this? Would you accept it as it is just a skill line for expansion owners or argue it's pay to win assuming it enhances your character in some capacity in combat.

I for some reason doubt it's an entire new class. I feel they will do that with every other Chapter launch.

No issues at all.
Recommend that you try playing WOW, it require an sub to play and any expansion buff players 5X or something.
You don't get this buff without the expansion but it hardly matter as endgame moves on to the new content you can not access anyway.

Now an world or more likely guild skill line would be an good option to fill out gaps in skills for classes.

WakeYourGhost · March 2018

...You need to consistently WIN for that to be the case.. And, you need to win through a payable method that excludes other people.

If a new Skill Line roughly balanced in line with other content granted from an expansion is "Pay to Win" - Well, you could call all DLC Dungeon sets "Pay to Win" or Warden "Pay To Win"
...Save that they do not and can not guarantee a win regardless of Skill Level and all other factors.

So - Unless "Psijic Skill Line" starts with an ability with a base 6k Damage before weapons and stats that scales off your highest numbers and grants you Damage Buffs and deals Resistance Debuffs to your enemy, I will assume anyone calling it "Pay To Win" because they have to buy the Chapter is a complete imbecile who should be ridiculed on sight.

Knowledge · March 2018

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

...You need to consistently WIN for that to be the case.. And, you need to win through a payable method that excludes other people.

If a new Skill Line roughly balanced in line with other content granted from an expansion is "Pay to Win" - Well, you could call all DLC Dungeon sets "Pay to Win" or Warden "Pay To Win"
...Save that they do not and can not guarantee a win regardless of Skill Level and all other factors.

So - Unless "Psijic Skill Line" starts with an ability with a base 6k Damage before weapons and stats that scales off your highest numbers and grants you Damage Buffs and deals Resistance Debuffs to your enemy, I will assume anyone calling it "Pay To Win" because they have to buy the Chapter is a complete imbecile who should be ridiculed on sight.

What if the Psijic Order skill line allows time manipulation akin to the lore?

VaranisArano · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

...You need to consistently WIN for that to be the case.. And, you need to win through a payable method that excludes other people.

If a new Skill Line roughly balanced in line with other content granted from an expansion is "Pay to Win" - Well, you could call all DLC Dungeon sets "Pay to Win" or Warden "Pay To Win"
...Save that they do not and can not guarantee a win regardless of Skill Level and all other factors.

So - Unless "Psijic Skill Line" starts with an ability with a base 6k Damage before weapons and stats that scales off your highest numbers and grants you Damage Buffs and deals Resistance Debuffs to your enemy, I will assume anyone calling it "Pay To Win" because they have to buy the Chapter is a complete imbecile who should be ridiculed on sight.

What if the Psijic Order skill line allows time manipulation akin to the lore?

The hypotheticals keep getting more embarrassing as you keep moving the goal posts. Seriously, can't you wait until ZOS actually announces the skill line before you start screaming P2W nonsense about hypotethicals you made up!

Time stopping is lore friendly, but you know nothing about the contents of the skill line. (Also, how do you think that's going to work, weapnized server lag?)

Knowledge · March 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

...You need to consistently WIN for that to be the case.. And, you need to win through a payable method that excludes other people.

If a new Skill Line roughly balanced in line with other content granted from an expansion is "Pay to Win" - Well, you could call all DLC Dungeon sets "Pay to Win" or Warden "Pay To Win"
...Save that they do not and can not guarantee a win regardless of Skill Level and all other factors.

So - Unless "Psijic Skill Line" starts with an ability with a base 6k Damage before weapons and stats that scales off your highest numbers and grants you Damage Buffs and deals Resistance Debuffs to your enemy, I will assume anyone calling it "Pay To Win" because they have to buy the Chapter is a complete imbecile who should be ridiculed on sight.

What if the Psijic Order skill line allows time manipulation akin to the lore?

The hypotheticals keep getting more embarrassing as you keep moving the goal posts. Seriously, can't you wait until ZOS actually announces the skill line before you start screaming P2W nonsense about hypotethicals you made up!

Time stopping is lore friendly, but you know nothing about the contents of the skill line. (Also, how do you think that's going to work, weapnized server lag?)

I take it you haven't looked over the datamine.

Thal_J · March 2018

/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_infusedweapon.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_infusedweapon_end.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_infusedweapon_loop.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_infusedweapon_start.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_meditate.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_meditate_loop.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_meditate_start.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_mending.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_mending_loop.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_mending_start.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_timestop.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_timestop_loop.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_timestop_start.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_undo.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_undo_end.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_undo_loop.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_undo_start.gr2

the c in the animation file means combat

VaranisArano · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

...You need to consistently WIN for that to be the case.. And, you need to win through a payable method that excludes other people.

If a new Skill Line roughly balanced in line with other content granted from an expansion is "Pay to Win" - Well, you could call all DLC Dungeon sets "Pay to Win" or Warden "Pay To Win"
...Save that they do not and can not guarantee a win regardless of Skill Level and all other factors.

So - Unless "Psijic Skill Line" starts with an ability with a base 6k Damage before weapons and stats that scales off your highest numbers and grants you Damage Buffs and deals Resistance Debuffs to your enemy, I will assume anyone calling it "Pay To Win" because they have to buy the Chapter is a complete imbecile who should be ridiculed on sight.

What if the Psijic Order skill line allows time manipulation akin to the lore?

The hypotheticals keep getting more embarrassing as you keep moving the goal posts. Seriously, can't you wait until ZOS actually announces the skill line before you start screaming P2W nonsense about hypotethicals you made up!

Time stopping is lore friendly, but you know nothing about the contents of the skill line. (Also, how do you think that's going to work, weapnized server lag?)

I take it you haven't looked over the datamine.

I just reviewed it since you brought it up. This one, in case there's a more specific post I've overlooked: http://blog.uesp.net/index.php/2018/02/17/eso-update-17-data-mining-3 The datamine is pretty vague, making it sound like the time manipulation might be used to heal wound, regain resources, or reset ability cooldowns.

I'm not seeing anything P2W there. But I can't actually judge that, see, because I know nothing specific about it.

You seem, rather, to be goal post moving. Throwing out "Well, if its this is it P2W? Well, what about this? Frankly, we won't know if something qualifies as P2W until the actual line is revealed, not the vague datamine that has no actual tooltip. ( if I've missed a datamine that has the actual tooltip, I'll rescind the hypothetical accusation. Its entirely possible that there's some new info I didn't see. But if you have it, perhaps you should consider bringing up that info when you make an actual argument. Sources are lovely things in an actual debate.)

Knowledge · March 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

...You need to consistently WIN for that to be the case.. And, you need to win through a payable method that excludes other people.

If a new Skill Line roughly balanced in line with other content granted from an expansion is "Pay to Win" - Well, you could call all DLC Dungeon sets "Pay to Win" or Warden "Pay To Win"
...Save that they do not and can not guarantee a win regardless of Skill Level and all other factors.

So - Unless "Psijic Skill Line" starts with an ability with a base 6k Damage before weapons and stats that scales off your highest numbers and grants you Damage Buffs and deals Resistance Debuffs to your enemy, I will assume anyone calling it "Pay To Win" because they have to buy the Chapter is a complete imbecile who should be ridiculed on sight.

What if the Psijic Order skill line allows time manipulation akin to the lore?

The hypotheticals keep getting more embarrassing as you keep moving the goal posts. Seriously, can't you wait until ZOS actually announces the skill line before you start screaming P2W nonsense about hypotethicals you made up!

Time stopping is lore friendly, but you know nothing about the contents of the skill line. (Also, how do you think that's going to work, weapnized server lag?)

I take it you haven't looked over the datamine.

I just reviewed it since you brought it up. This one, in case there's a more specific post I've overlooked: http://blog.uesp.net/index.php/2018/02/17/eso-update-17-data-mining-3 The datamine is pretty vague, making it sound like the time manipulation might be used to heal wound, regain resources, or reset ability cooldowns.

I'm not seeing anything P2W there. But I can't actually judge that, see, because I know nothing specific about it.

You seem, rather, to be goal post moving. Throwing out "Well, if its this is it P2W? Well, what about this? Frankly, we won't know if something qualifies as P2W until the actual line is revealed, not the vague datamine that has no actual tooltip. ( if I've missed a datamine that has the actual tooltip, I'll rescind the hypothetical accusation. Its entirely possible that there's some new info I didn't see. But if you have it, perhaps you should consider bringing up that info when you make an actual argument. Sources are lovely things in an actual debate.)

I don't think you've evaluated the datamine properly.

VaranisArano · March 2018

I am, however, sorry for saying you know nothing about the contents of the skill line, since time stopping is mentioned. I did not seem however, any specifics of how it will work that could lead to accusations of P2W based on what we know,

VaranisArano · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

...You need to consistently WIN for that to be the case.. And, you need to win through a payable method that excludes other people.

If a new Skill Line roughly balanced in line with other content granted from an expansion is "Pay to Win" - Well, you could call all DLC Dungeon sets "Pay to Win" or Warden "Pay To Win"
...Save that they do not and can not guarantee a win regardless of Skill Level and all other factors.

So - Unless "Psijic Skill Line" starts with an ability with a base 6k Damage before weapons and stats that scales off your highest numbers and grants you Damage Buffs and deals Resistance Debuffs to your enemy, I will assume anyone calling it "Pay To Win" because they have to buy the Chapter is a complete imbecile who should be ridiculed on sight.

What if the Psijic Order skill line allows time manipulation akin to the lore?

The hypotheticals keep getting more embarrassing as you keep moving the goal posts. Seriously, can't you wait until ZOS actually announces the skill line before you start screaming P2W nonsense about hypotethicals you made up!

Time stopping is lore friendly, but you know nothing about the contents of the skill line. (Also, how do you think that's going to work, weapnized server lag?)

I take it you haven't looked over the datamine.

I just reviewed it since you brought it up. This one, in case there's a more specific post I've overlooked: http://blog.uesp.net/index.php/2018/02/17/eso-update-17-data-mining-3 The datamine is pretty vague, making it sound like the time manipulation might be used to heal wound, regain resources, or reset ability cooldowns.

I'm not seeing anything P2W there. But I can't actually judge that, see, because I know nothing specific about it.

You seem, rather, to be goal post moving. Throwing out "Well, if its this is it P2W? Well, what about this? Frankly, we won't know if something qualifies as P2W until the actual line is revealed, not the vague datamine that has no actual tooltip. ( if I've missed a datamine that has the actual tooltip, I'll rescind the hypothetical accusation. Its entirely possible that there's some new info I didn't see. But if you have it, perhaps you should consider bringing up that info when you make an actual argument. Sources are lovely things in an actual debate.)

I don't think you've evaluated the datamine properly.

Give me a source then and Ill evaluate it.

Given the source I looked at before, I don't see how I can possibly judge anything that vague as being P2W or not.

Edited to add: well, I'll evaluate this source in the morning, because its late and I'm done debating skill lines that haven't been released yet for the night.

SilverIce58 · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

...You need to consistently WIN for that to be the case.. And, you need to win through a payable method that excludes other people.

If a new Skill Line roughly balanced in line with other content granted from an expansion is "Pay to Win" - Well, you could call all DLC Dungeon sets "Pay to Win" or Warden "Pay To Win"
...Save that they do not and can not guarantee a win regardless of Skill Level and all other factors.

So - Unless "Psijic Skill Line" starts with an ability with a base 6k Damage before weapons and stats that scales off your highest numbers and grants you Damage Buffs and deals Resistance Debuffs to your enemy, I will assume anyone calling it "Pay To Win" because they have to buy the Chapter is a complete imbecile who should be ridiculed on sight.

What if the Psijic Order skill line allows time manipulation akin to the lore?

The hypotheticals keep getting more embarrassing as you keep moving the goal posts. Seriously, can't you wait until ZOS actually announces the skill line before you start screaming P2W nonsense about hypotethicals you made up!

Time stopping is lore friendly, but you know nothing about the contents of the skill line. (Also, how do you think that's going to work, weapnized server lag?)

I take it you haven't looked over the datamine.

I just reviewed it since you brought it up. This one, in case there's a more specific post I've overlooked: http://blog.uesp.net/index.php/2018/02/17/eso-update-17-data-mining-3 The datamine is pretty vague, making it sound like the time manipulation might be used to heal wound, regain resources, or reset ability cooldowns.

I'm not seeing anything P2W there. But I can't actually judge that, see, because I know nothing specific about it.

You seem, rather, to be goal post moving. Throwing out "Well, if its this is it P2W? Well, what about this? Frankly, we won't know if something qualifies as P2W until the actual line is revealed, not the vague datamine that has no actual tooltip. ( if I've missed a datamine that has the actual tooltip, I'll rescind the hypothetical accusation. Its entirely possible that there's some new info I didn't see. But if you have it, perhaps you should consider bringing up that info when you make an actual argument. Sources are lovely things in an actual debate.)

I don't think you've evaluated the datamine properly.

I think you mean "I don't think you've evaluated the datamine in the exact same way that I have" because that's what it sounds like you're saying. What this sounds like is you're not going to accept any interpretation of the datamine unless it's at least 80% close to what your interpretation is.

Knowledge · March 2018

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

...You need to consistently WIN for that to be the case.. And, you need to win through a payable method that excludes other people.

If a new Skill Line roughly balanced in line with other content granted from an expansion is "Pay to Win" - Well, you could call all DLC Dungeon sets "Pay to Win" or Warden "Pay To Win"
...Save that they do not and can not guarantee a win regardless of Skill Level and all other factors.

So - Unless "Psijic Skill Line" starts with an ability with a base 6k Damage before weapons and stats that scales off your highest numbers and grants you Damage Buffs and deals Resistance Debuffs to your enemy, I will assume anyone calling it "Pay To Win" because they have to buy the Chapter is a complete imbecile who should be ridiculed on sight.

What if the Psijic Order skill line allows time manipulation akin to the lore?

The hypotheticals keep getting more embarrassing as you keep moving the goal posts. Seriously, can't you wait until ZOS actually announces the skill line before you start screaming P2W nonsense about hypotethicals you made up!

Time stopping is lore friendly, but you know nothing about the contents of the skill line. (Also, how do you think that's going to work, weapnized server lag?)

I take it you haven't looked over the datamine.

I just reviewed it since you brought it up. This one, in case there's a more specific post I've overlooked: http://blog.uesp.net/index.php/2018/02/17/eso-update-17-data-mining-3 The datamine is pretty vague, making it sound like the time manipulation might be used to heal wound, regain resources, or reset ability cooldowns.

I'm not seeing anything P2W there. But I can't actually judge that, see, because I know nothing specific about it.

You seem, rather, to be goal post moving. Throwing out "Well, if its this is it P2W? Well, what about this? Frankly, we won't know if something qualifies as P2W until the actual line is revealed, not the vague datamine that has no actual tooltip. ( if I've missed a datamine that has the actual tooltip, I'll rescind the hypothetical accusation. Its entirely possible that there's some new info I didn't see. But if you have it, perhaps you should consider bringing up that info when you make an actual argument. Sources are lovely things in an actual debate.)

I don't think you've evaluated the datamine properly.

I think you mean "I don't think you've evaluated the datamine in the exact same way that I have" because that's what it sounds like you're saying. What this sounds like is you're not going to accept any interpretation of the datamine unless it's at least 80% close to what your interpretation is.

Please try to be more appreciative.

SilverIce58 · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

...You need to consistently WIN for that to be the case.. And, you need to win through a payable method that excludes other people.

If a new Skill Line roughly balanced in line with other content granted from an expansion is "Pay to Win" - Well, you could call all DLC Dungeon sets "Pay to Win" or Warden "Pay To Win"
...Save that they do not and can not guarantee a win regardless of Skill Level and all other factors.

So - Unless "Psijic Skill Line" starts with an ability with a base 6k Damage before weapons and stats that scales off your highest numbers and grants you Damage Buffs and deals Resistance Debuffs to your enemy, I will assume anyone calling it "Pay To Win" because they have to buy the Chapter is a complete imbecile who should be ridiculed on sight.

What if the Psijic Order skill line allows time manipulation akin to the lore?

The hypotheticals keep getting more embarrassing as you keep moving the goal posts. Seriously, can't you wait until ZOS actually announces the skill line before you start screaming P2W nonsense about hypotethicals you made up!

Time stopping is lore friendly, but you know nothing about the contents of the skill line. (Also, how do you think that's going to work, weapnized server lag?)

I take it you haven't looked over the datamine.

I just reviewed it since you brought it up. This one, in case there's a more specific post I've overlooked: http://blog.uesp.net/index.php/2018/02/17/eso-update-17-data-mining-3 The datamine is pretty vague, making it sound like the time manipulation might be used to heal wound, regain resources, or reset ability cooldowns.

I'm not seeing anything P2W there. But I can't actually judge that, see, because I know nothing specific about it.

You seem, rather, to be goal post moving. Throwing out "Well, if its this is it P2W? Well, what about this? Frankly, we won't know if something qualifies as P2W until the actual line is revealed, not the vague datamine that has no actual tooltip. ( if I've missed a datamine that has the actual tooltip, I'll rescind the hypothetical accusation. Its entirely possible that there's some new info I didn't see. But if you have it, perhaps you should consider bringing up that info when you make an actual argument. Sources are lovely things in an actual debate.)

I don't think you've evaluated the datamine properly.

I think you mean "I don't think you've evaluated the datamine in the exact same way that I have" because that's what it sounds like you're saying. What this sounds like is you're not going to accept any interpretation of the datamine unless it's at least 80% close to what your interpretation is.

Please try to be more appreciative.

I'm just making an observation.

Also, appreciative of what?

Dagoth_Rac · March 2018

Meh. I think people are jumping to conclusions way too quickly. The whole time-stopping thing and other Psijic Order skills will probably just be very limited tools used in the storyline. Stuff along the lines of the Blade of Woe.

Knowledge · March 2018

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Meh. I think people are jumping to conclusions way too quickly. The whole time-stopping thing and other Psijic Order skills will probably just be very limited tools used in the storyline. Stuff along the lines of the Blade of Woe.

You didn't look at the datamine. They are combat abilities.