If Psijic Order skill line is ONLY for Chapter Owners is it P2W?

commdt

OMG you have to buy a game to win, what horrible world we live in now...

MLGProPlayer

Knowledge wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Meh. I think people are jumping to conclusions way too quickly. The whole time-stopping thing and other Psijic Order skills will probably just be very limited tools used in the storyline. Stuff along the lines of the Blade of Woe.

You didn't look at the datamine. They are combat abilities.

Doesn't matter what they are. It's not P2W. It's pay-to-play.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

ZOS_JesC wrote: »

We removed a few comments from this thread that promoted flaming and disruptive behavior. If there are any questions about forum policy and community rules you can always check them here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843

As mine was one that was removed, I apologize.
I should never have pointed out that OP has opened several dead, controversial and combative threads, (4 in the last week), for the sake of toll baiting to lure ones like me to respond in not so kind ways, and then have the GAUL to quote ToS to others and threaten to have them reported?
What gives?
Please just close this thread as it is not constructive at this point.
Thank You JesC and I will try and watch my comments better in the future.
Huzzah!

joaaocaampos

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Assume for a second that the Psijic Order line is a World Skill line that enhances the player character in some capacity instead of a new class. How will the community react to this? Would you accept it as it is just a skill line for expansion owners or argue it's pay to win assuming it enhances your character in some capacity in combat.

I for some reason doubt it's an entire new class. I feel they will do that with every other Chapter launch.

the only reason the warden requires morrowind to play is because ZOS was unsure of how to go about restricting access to the class should someone with ESO+ lose their subscription (as it is with current DLC packs).

The psijic skill line is 100% not going to be a new class, so there's no need for such a restriction. If you have ESO+ and you lose your subscription, you'll just lose access to the skill line.

@Lynx7386 Who says Psijic Order will come with the new Chapter? I don't believe that. Spellcrafting is a system that may be larger than the Warden, so there's no need for it.

Psijic Order/skill line will come in a new DLC, as well as the Thives Guild and Dark Brothehood. And it will probably come after the Chapter (if the Chapter is even released in Q2).

Q2: Chapter
Q3: Psijic Order Guild/DLC/Skill Line: Artaeum zone + Daily quests etc.
Q4: Spiral Skein DLC: Mephala's Realm zone + Trial etc.

Yamenstein

Knowledge wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

I know this will fall on deaf ears and blind eyes, BUT...Pay to Win means being almost forced to purchase with REAL MONEY BiS gear for PvP, giving the purchaser a significant advantage over other PvP'ers. It has nothing to do with having to purchase PvE DLC.

I honestly have no idea how these people who insist on free to play expect these companies to keep the doors open with no capital coming in. It reminds me of people in the 90's shouting, "The music MUST be free, man!". Yeah, well how're the musicians supposed to make a living then? On your good vibes and positive energy?

Say the skill line gave a passive that at its highest level morph gave an individual 5% more DPS. That isn't pay to win?

Firstly, I would be very surprised if it did give you a buff like that. It doesn't fit right and honestly your example is very poor, be more creative please

Secondly, if it did have an ability that gave 5% more DPS, and with that 5% DPS you could only get the same DPS as a magicka-based Warden, then it's still only as good as a magicka-based based Warden, ain't it?

No one is doubting that the new class might excel in some way, but the game needs to be balanced so all classes can meet certain benchmarks.

How about you wait until they actually announce the class/skill line and see how it goes.

I think the majority of people haven't thought about the idea that Wardens, VMA Gear, Trial Gear, Crafted Gear and Dungeon Gear are P2W. ZoS needs to keep on bringing out content, and they need to make profits otherwise the game will get shut down. So I'm not sure what you are trying to prove with this thread. As long as the new content doesn't break the game, then the game is still fine.

Yamenstein

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Meh. I think people are jumping to conclusions way too quickly. The whole time-stopping thing and other Psijic Order skills will probably just be very limited tools used in the storyline. Stuff along the lines of the Blade of Woe.

Or it will just be something that causes an effect on a single person or a group of people.

I really doubt any time based skills will effectively stop a player from moving or cause them to go back in time when it comes to actual gameplay.

Example. Skill: Slow Time, X Magicka/Stamina, Causes the target to slow down Magicka/Stamina/Health recovery by X amount.

Lykanus

Just a quick and little explaination to the OP (havent read the thread, gets old every time the same):

DLC means always a change. Changes means that the game wont stay forever the same. You can buy the changes or not. P2W questions are irrelevant. Every change can be considered P2W and will by someone.

If it is acceptable for you decide on your own and answer it with if you buy/play it or not.

Knowledge

Lykanus wrote: »

Just a quick and little explaination to the OP (havent read the thread, gets old every time the same):

DLC means always a change. Changes means that the game wont stay forever the same. You can buy the changes or not. P2W questions are irrelevant. Every change can be considered P2W and will by someone.

If it is acceptable for you decide on your own and answer it with if you buy it or not.

Pay-to-win questions are irrelevant to YOU but not to me or others. Please don't try to force your belief system on me.

Lykanus

Knowledge wrote: »

Pay-to-win questions are irrelevant to YOU but not to me or others. Please don't try to force your belief system on me.

It is irrelevant for YOU because its been asked 1 million times
You wont find any new answers, as said there will be always someone that mentions it will be P2W. You will have to decided for your own. You should ask yourself if it is acceptable for you and then act based on that what you decide.

mocap

Maybe this new line is somekind of crafting line? I mean, if there will be crafting spells and/or jewerly, then we need new tannins for jewerly upgrade and something for spell craft.

Vapirko

P2W or not I cringe to think of the balance issues to follow. Hold on tight and weather the new meta.

AzraelKrieg

WakeYourGhost

Knowledge wrote: »

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

...You need to consistently WIN for that to be the case.. And, you need to win through a payable method that excludes other people.

If a new Skill Line roughly balanced in line with other content granted from an expansion is "Pay to Win" - Well, you could call all DLC Dungeon sets "Pay to Win" or Warden "Pay To Win"
...Save that they do not and can not guarantee a win regardless of Skill Level and all other factors.

So - Unless "Psijic Skill Line" starts with an ability with a base 6k Damage before weapons and stats that scales off your highest numbers and grants you Damage Buffs and deals Resistance Debuffs to your enemy, I will assume anyone calling it "Pay To Win" because they have to buy the Chapter is a complete imbecile who should be ridiculed on sight.

What if the Psijic Order skill line allows time manipulation akin to the lore?

So what if it does? How exactly will they enact it in an MMO? Likely in a way that doesn't, under any context, add any sort of truly over-bearing benefit.

You've missed the point, I believe.

starkerealm

Arko_Nam_La wrote: »

/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_infusedweapon.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_infusedweapon_end.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_infusedweapon_loop.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_infusedweapon_start.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_meditate.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_meditate_loop.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_meditate_start.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_mending.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_mending_loop.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_mending_start.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_timestop.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_timestop_loop.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_timestop_start.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_undo.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_undo_end.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_undo_loop.gr2
/art/character/animations/eso_breton_m_c_gen_psijic_undo_start.gr2


the c in the animation file means combat

Which is most likely a CC, like encase, talons, or that certain Akatosh Templar (though we won't get the ability to lock up an entire room with it.)

Realistically, with that animation set, you're looking at a weapon enchant effect (so, Brutality/Sorcery), a CC effect (either a stun or a root, could be single target or multi), a self heal (mending). Not sure about Meditate, that could be a self buff of some kind, or it could be a resource return like the Netch. Undo is a big question mark, though my first thought would be a Tracer style rewind which moves you to a previous location. Could be an anchor and teleport like the Nightblade pet, but I'm guessing here.

SilverIce58

Knowledge wrote: »

Lykanus wrote: »

Just a quick and little explaination to the OP (havent read the thread, gets old every time the same):

DLC means always a change. Changes means that the game wont stay forever the same. You can buy the changes or not. P2W questions are irrelevant. Every change can be considered P2W and will by someone.

If it is acceptable for you decide on your own and answer it with if you buy it or not.

Pay-to-win questions are irrelevant to YOU but not to me or others. Please don't try to force your belief system on me.

Watch out guys, explaining things is now "forcing your belief system" on a person.

Iselin

P2W lol.

I remember the good old days at release when the Imperial race was thought to be P2W. 4 years later the Imps are still not winning even as the preferred tanking race: the meek Argonians inherited that.

And then there was the P2W Warden rants that were going to destroy any need to have Templars as healers... how did that work out? I have to admit though, those without Morrowind do miss out on one skill point as that thread that never ends reminds us.

But hey it wouldn't be the ESO forums without yet another attempt at P2W fear mongering now with Psiijc.

VaranisArano

VaranisArano wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

...You need to consistently WIN for that to be the case.. And, you need to win through a payable method that excludes other people.

If a new Skill Line roughly balanced in line with other content granted from an expansion is "Pay to Win" - Well, you could call all DLC Dungeon sets "Pay to Win" or Warden "Pay To Win"
...Save that they do not and can not guarantee a win regardless of Skill Level and all other factors.

So - Unless "Psijic Skill Line" starts with an ability with a base 6k Damage before weapons and stats that scales off your highest numbers and grants you Damage Buffs and deals Resistance Debuffs to your enemy, I will assume anyone calling it "Pay To Win" because they have to buy the Chapter is a complete imbecile who should be ridiculed on sight.

What if the Psijic Order skill line allows time manipulation akin to the lore?

The hypotheticals keep getting more embarrassing as you keep moving the goal posts. Seriously, can't you wait until ZOS actually announces the skill line before you start screaming P2W nonsense about hypotethicals you made up!

Time stopping is lore friendly, but you know nothing about the contents of the skill line. (Also, how do you think that's going to work, weapnized server lag?)

I take it you haven't looked over the datamine.

I just reviewed it since you brought it up. This one, in case there's a more specific post I've overlooked: http://blog.uesp.net/index.php/2018/02/17/eso-update-17-data-mining-3 The datamine is pretty vague, making it sound like the time manipulation might be used to heal wound, regain resources, or reset ability cooldowns.

I'm not seeing anything P2W there. But I can't actually judge that, see, because I know nothing specific about it.

You seem, rather, to be goal post moving. Throwing out "Well, if its this is it P2W? Well, what about this? Frankly, we won't know if something qualifies as P2W until the actual line is revealed, not the vague datamine that has no actual tooltip. ( if I've missed a datamine that has the actual tooltip, I'll rescind the hypothetical accusation. Its entirely possible that there's some new info I didn't see. But if you have it, perhaps you should consider bringing up that info when you make an actual argument. Sources are lovely things in an actual debate.)

I don't think you've evaluated the datamine properly.

Give me a source then and Ill evaluate it.

Given the source I looked at before, I don't see how I can possibly judge anything that vague as being P2W or not.

Edited to add: well, I'll evaluate this source in the morning, because its late and I'm done debating skill lines that haven't been released yet for the night.

Since I don't see anyone providing an additional source other than the datamine I linked, I'm going to assume that we merely disagree on interpretation.

I don't think we know enough, based on a vague datamine, to throw out accusations of P2W.

klowdy1

Iselin wrote: »

P2W lol.

I remember the good old days at release when the Imperial race was thought to be P2W. 4 years later the Imps are still not winning even as the preferred tanking race: the meek Argonians inherited that.

And then there was the P2W Warden rants that were going to destroy any need to have Templars as healers... how did that work out? I have to admit though, those without Morrowind do miss out on one skill point as that thread that never ends reminds us.

But hey it wouldn't be the ESO forums without yet another attempt at P2W fear mongering now with Psiijc.

Sorcs are P2W, because I had to spend money to be able to use one.

People are confusing P2W with B2P. God forbid people have to actually pay for a game to play it.

VaranisArano

If the argument is that the Psijic skill line is P2W just because it gives combat abilities...Imperial and Warden. Which makes this both a dead horse thread AND apparently based on vague info,from the datamine.

Beardimus

Turelus wrote: »

The community will react like it always does.

People will scream pay to win and rage about it ignoring the fact the games had advantages for people who paid for DLC/Chapters for almost four years now any way.

Haha, spot on

Maura_Neysa

VerboseQuips wrote: »

It will depend on what purpose the Psijic Order skill line will serve, I guess. It could be Quality-of-Life improvements in the day-to-day in-game economy.

Considering the UESP data mine, I expect it to be either a class or a skill line on the level of Mages/Fighters/Undaunted. As opposed to Thieves/Brotherhood/ or even Vampire.

Maybe I’m bias, because I’m hooding for some skill that synergies was well with the MagWarden to help push their DPS into the field of the othe classes.

Zagnut123Zagnut123

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_JesC wrote: »

We removed a few comments from this thread that promoted flaming and disruptive behavior. If there are any questions about forum policy and community rules you can always check them here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843

As mine was one that was removed, I apologize.
I should never have pointed out that OP has opened several dead, controversial and combative threads, (4 in the last week), for the sake of toll baiting to lure ones like me to respond in not so kind ways, and then have the GAUL to quote ToS to others and threaten to have them reported?
What gives?
Please just close this thread as it is not constructive at this point.
Thank You JesC and I will try and watch my comments better in the future.
Huzzah!

This guys a troll we just need to do the good work and keep informing the masses.

@Knowledge no one takes you seriously and for those that do are oblivious to your obvious trolling.

Maura_Neysa

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_JesC wrote: »

We removed a few comments from this thread that promoted flaming and disruptive behavior. If there are any questions about forum policy and community rules you can always check them here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843

As mine was one that was removed, I apologize.
I should never have pointed out that OP has opened several dead, controversial and combative threads, (4 in the last week), for the sake of toll baiting to lure ones like me to respond in not so kind ways, and then have the GAUL to quote ToS to others and threaten to have them reported?
What gives?
Please just close this thread as it is not constructive at this point.
Thank You JesC and I will try and watch my comments better in the future.
Huzzah!

This guys a troll we just need to do the good work and keep informing the masses.

@Knowledge no one takes you seriously and for those that do are oblivious to your obvious trolling.

I wouldn’t say troll, but yes I’m often surprised and at a loss for words on how to respond.

On topic. Considering there are just 2 skills out of each Fighters and Undaunted run with any regularity and only Metor and Inner Light out of Mages guild that people would be sad to lose, I think it’s safe to say a Guild line will not be P2W and if it’s a class, well Warden really isn’t a P2W thing either. At best that’s a P2 be slightly better than you would have been on another class in PvP only. Good people are just as powerful on other builds though.

Asardes

Magicka Templar and NB also use Degeneration for Major Sorcery when not using poitons, people use Volcanic Rune pretty often in PvP for the CC in some situations, if their class lacks one, some tanks use Balance. So Mages guild skills are all used, just by different classes, builds, in different scenarios.

Zagnut123Zagnut123

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_JesC wrote: »

We removed a few comments from this thread that promoted flaming and disruptive behavior. If there are any questions about forum policy and community rules you can always check them here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843

As mine was one that was removed, I apologize.
I should never have pointed out that OP has opened several dead, controversial and combative threads, (4 in the last week), for the sake of toll baiting to lure ones like me to respond in not so kind ways, and then have the GAUL to quote ToS to others and threaten to have them reported?
What gives?
Please just close this thread as it is not constructive at this point.
Thank You JesC and I will try and watch my comments better in the future.
Huzzah!

This guys a troll we just need to do the good work and keep informing the masses.

@Knowledge no one takes you seriously and for those that do are oblivious to your obvious trolling.

I wouldn’t say troll, but yes I’m often surprised and at a loss for words on how to respond.

On topic. Considering there are just 2 skills out of each Fighters and Undaunted run with any regularity and only Metor and Inner Light out of Mages guild that people would be sad to lose, I think it’s safe to say a Guild line will not be P2W and if it’s a class, well Warden really isn’t a P2W thing either. At best that’s a P2 be slightly better than you would have been on another class in PvP only. Good people are just as powerful on other builds though.

Have u read through there posts? Definetley a troll and definetley waisting everyone's time.

VaranisArano

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_JesC wrote: »

We removed a few comments from this thread that promoted flaming and disruptive behavior. If there are any questions about forum policy and community rules you can always check them here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843

As mine was one that was removed, I apologize.
I should never have pointed out that OP has opened several dead, controversial and combative threads, (4 in the last week), for the sake of toll baiting to lure ones like me to respond in not so kind ways, and then have the GAUL to quote ToS to others and threaten to have them reported?
What gives?
Please just close this thread as it is not constructive at this point.
Thank You JesC and I will try and watch my comments better in the future.
Huzzah!

This guys a troll we just need to do the good work and keep informing the masses.

@Knowledge no one takes you seriously and for those that do are oblivious to your obvious trolling.

I wouldn’t say troll, but yes I’m often surprised and at a loss for words on how to respond.

On topic. Considering there are just 2 skills out of each Fighters and Undaunted run with any regularity and only Metor and Inner Light out of Mages guild that people would be sad to lose, I think it’s safe to say a Guild line will not be P2W and if it’s a class, well Warden really isn’t a P2W thing either. At best that’s a P2 be slightly better than you would have been on another class in PvP only. Good people are just as powerful on other builds though.

Have u read through there posts? Definetley a troll and definetley waisting everyone's time.

Its entirely possible that the OP just enjoys debating their opinion on topics the forums have already debated multiple times (or in this case, the OP seems to want to get in on the ground floor with the Psijics).

Its possible.

Zagnut123Zagnut123

VaranisArano wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_JesC wrote: »

We removed a few comments from this thread that promoted flaming and disruptive behavior. If there are any questions about forum policy and community rules you can always check them here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843

As mine was one that was removed, I apologize.
I should never have pointed out that OP has opened several dead, controversial and combative threads, (4 in the last week), for the sake of toll baiting to lure ones like me to respond in not so kind ways, and then have the GAUL to quote ToS to others and threaten to have them reported?
What gives?
Please just close this thread as it is not constructive at this point.
Thank You JesC and I will try and watch my comments better in the future.
Huzzah!

This guys a troll we just need to do the good work and keep informing the masses.

@Knowledge no one takes you seriously and for those that do are oblivious to your obvious trolling.

I wouldn’t say troll, but yes I’m often surprised and at a loss for words on how to respond.

On topic. Considering there are just 2 skills out of each Fighters and Undaunted run with any regularity and only Metor and Inner Light out of Mages guild that people would be sad to lose, I think it’s safe to say a Guild line will not be P2W and if it’s a class, well Warden really isn’t a P2W thing either. At best that’s a P2 be slightly better than you would have been on another class in PvP only. Good people are just as powerful on other builds though.

Have u read through there posts? Definetley a troll and definetley waisting everyone's time.

Its entirely possible that the OP just enjoys debating their opinion on topics the forums have already debated multiple times (or in this case, the OP seems to want to get in on the ground floor with the Psijics).

Its possible.

Possible but unlikely. We will see if they ever dismiss the accusations of being a troll. Trolls usually don't acknowledge accusations

Kel

In Warcraft, when you buy a new expansion, no one is screaming "Pay to win!!". If you didnt buy legion, you didn't get the Demon Hunter class. I do not understand the mentality here.
In any other game, if you don't pay for the new expansion/chapter/dlc/whatever, you don't get the new stuff.
What is different here? If you don't buy the new content, you don't get the new things that come with it. That isn't pay to win, it's the way it's always been done.
Get over it.

NewBlacksmurf

Some people have no idea what pay2win is, paying for dlc content isn’t similar to buying specific items that are greater than anything attainable via gameplay.

Maura_Neysa

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_JesC wrote: »

We removed a few comments from this thread that promoted flaming and disruptive behavior. If there are any questions about forum policy and community rules you can always check them here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843

As mine was one that was removed, I apologize.
I should never have pointed out that OP has opened several dead, controversial and combative threads, (4 in the last week), for the sake of toll baiting to lure ones like me to respond in not so kind ways, and then have the GAUL to quote ToS to others and threaten to have them reported?
What gives?
Please just close this thread as it is not constructive at this point.
Thank You JesC and I will try and watch my comments better in the future.
Huzzah!

This guys a troll we just need to do the good work and keep informing the masses.

@Knowledge no one takes you seriously and for those that do are oblivious to your obvious trolling.

I wouldn’t say troll, but yes I’m often surprised and at a loss for words on how to respond.

On topic. Considering there are just 2 skills out of each Fighters and Undaunted run with any regularity and only Metor and Inner Light out of Mages guild that people would be sad to lose, I think it’s safe to say a Guild line will not be P2W and if it’s a class, well Warden really isn’t a P2W thing either. At best that’s a P2 be slightly better than you would have been on another class in PvP only. Good people are just as powerful on other builds though.

Have u read through there posts? Definetley a troll and definetley waisting everyone's time.

Have seen them in Threads I’m active on. I have not Facebook Stalked them Facebook/Forum whatever