Sabbathius wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

You do not need to animation cancel to have top DPS. Below is a random video I looked up on youtube of someone doing a dummy parse. Watch it. Tell me afterwards if his animations are invisible to you. I will be waiting.

I'm not the guy you asked, but yeah. The video clearly has quite a few animations very clearly cut almost entirely (especially evident with bar swaps when he manages to do them smoothly). Also the constant jerk movement of LA->Ability is really, really jarring to a lot of people. It's not that we can't do it. We don't want to have to do it, because it looks disgusting. But we have to, if we want that DPS. Hence the complaint.

My personal complaint is that this is high APM without a point to it, with several heavy drawbacks. See, in a game like Starcraft 2, high APM has very palpable effects. Because you're controlling lots of units, on multiple fronts, on a large map, with a building and harvesting in the background as well. Managing it all, quickly and accurately, requires insane APM. But it's APM with a point. It's mostly reactive. Yes, building phases are still prescriptive, but the rest is holistic.

By contrast, APM in ESO (LA->Ability weaving, and animation cancels) have no point, other than pushing your DPS higher. Thing is, if developers want us to do more DPS, there's easier ways, without driving that APM up and leading to button spam. If they want not everyone to be able to do high DPS, but only "skilled" players (though I personally question peoples' definition of "skill" if they think ESO's 8-button spam is "skillful"), then there's other ways to do it. Like reactive gameplay. They already touched on that a little bit with new off-balance - specific windows of opportunity to be taken advantage of, dynamically, by skilled players. Rather than current approach, to see which monkey with lowest ping is able to hammer out a predetermined sequence of buttons quickest with least mistakes.

But weaving is not animation cancelling. And weaving is heavily built into the game and supported by sets and class abilities.

I also don't see your point about APM. High APM in ESO is without a point? And then you continue to say that the point is to get higher DPS? What?

High APM to get high DPS seems like a perfectly valid point to me. Or do you want to press one button and enjoy the show?

Dymence wrote: »

But weaving is not animation cancelling. And weaving is heavily built into the game and supported by sets and class abilities.

I never said light and heavy attacks had no place in the game. But weaving light and heavy attacks does clip their animations. You can clearly see the pull-staff-back animation of both light and heavy attacks are being canceled by ability animations. Which is what creates that jerk I descrbed. Part of the animation is canceled. Ergo, it's animation canceling.

I also don't see your point about APM. High APM in ESO is without a point? And then you continue to say that the point is to get higher DPS? What?

High APM to get high DPS seems like a perfectly valid point to me. Or do you want to press one button and enjoy the show?

Perhaps I expressed myself poorly. When you reach high APM in SC2, you can do more meaningful things, in more areas of the game. Because you are not fighting a global cooldown like in ESO. In SC2, each keypress is registered, and results in an effect.

Jeez...how do I explain it... Have you played EVE Online? The whole game runs on 1 Hz clock. That is, everything happens in 1-second "ticks". So no matter how many things you do in that 1 second, they just won't happen until at least next tick. Which is what makes certain interceptors in that game "uncatchable" in traditional sense. Because even if your reaction is 100% accurate and you execute instant-lock and activate warp scrambler, it won't actually activate until 1 tick later, by which time the interceptor is already in warp and can't be caught. Though it often comes down to server. If server processes the scramble request before it processes the warp, the incerceptor can still get caught, it's just the luck of the draw on when the two requests will be serviced by the server, in which order.

So in Starcraft 2, there's no such 1 Hz clock, and high APM player can ideally performs productive actions as fast as he is capable, and the game will process them. And again, this is a broad spectrum of actions. You are building, you are harvesting resources, assigning workers, commanding armies, and even using special abilities of specific units within those armies, all the while you are also doing this fluidly, responding to what your opponent is doing, not just by rote.

By contrast, in ESO, it's just button mashing. There's a global cooldown that limits what you can do in any given second. In SC2 individual units have cooldowns, how often they can do their damage or other things, but not player actions. So high APM in SC2 is actually useful, as long as you keep it productive. High APM in ESO is largely useless because of GCD, coupled with "by rote" rotation that only gets disrupted by mechanics, it's not contextual. So when I look at SC2, I see skillful play. When I see ESO, I see a hairless ape mashing keys. There IS skill involved, I'm not disputing that, but it's something a trained chimp can do.

Is that better? Or did I only make it worse? lol I'm honestly trying to explain it, but it's like describing a wine glass - you just wave your hands in the air and curse out of sheer impotence.

Lot of macro users exploit it getting off mad crazy burst in pvp

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

It's funny how many people really think that no animation cancelling would make the game easier. Good luck when you can't dodgeroll or block immediately anymore.

You are kinda missing the point of what many (most?) people are asking for.

In many MMOs that have action combat, it goes like this. You press the button. The resouce (stamina, mana, energy, what have you) gets used up. You are not getting that back. Then the animation starts playing. If you need to "dodgeroll or block immediately", YOU CAN! Nothing changes! Except you don't get the effect from the ability you activated, UNLESS the ability completes! Makes sense now? You can still roll-dodge if you need to. You just can't roll-dodge-cancel an animation of an attack to make its damage happen faster, killing the opponent. You'd have to choose - dodge roll, or kill the opponent. But since animation would play, the opponent now has time to react, rather than just die to a burst which happened with no corresponding animation.

See it now? What anti-ani-cancelers are asking is actually quite sensible, and will not harm the game in the slightest. What it will do is make combat more reactive, and force people to think a little more. Or how ZOS would put it, "this is a buff if you have a working brain".

OH MY GOD, JUST STOP IT ALREADY.

If you're on PS4 NA and think that light attack weaving is "animation cancelling" that will magically give you 40k DPS, you're welcome to visit my house and practice on my target dummy for hours and hours. What you will find is that weaving will maybe net you an extra 4-5k DPS. Want big numbers? Gear yourself appropriately, and practice your freaking rotation until you can do it in your sleep.

Top-tier damage dealers are not block-cancelling their actual skills. At the most, they're bar swap cancelling skills with long recovery animations.

If you get killed in under a second in PVP, then you are a victim of latency, not animation cancelling. Lag can make it seem as though someone has hit you with a crap-ton of skills in under a second. You might also be the victim of a well-timed burst set-up that may or may not be combined with proc sets, and well-timed bursts/procs have NOTHING TO DO WITH ANIMATION CANCELLING.

Seriously, people. My blood pressure.

The problem with it is that it's really not universal in it's application.

Stuff like the buried heavy attack->wreckingblow, Dawnbreaker being able to be cancelled so fast it might not actually display etc.

It doesn't seem to have a rhyme or reason to how much of an animation is "necessary".

What it's uneven implementation leads to is broken combat and jerky movements by people choosing to use only the abilities it's best with in pvp. It's the why to the reasoning behind most meta builds...

It's different feeling with many attacks, even ones that are both instants.

Most of it is fine. It's just the few abilities that can be cancelled out of existence or used to hide other attacks that are the issue.

They went in and tuned it once already and made it worse.

They really ought just normalize animation speeds or at least force X amount of time to be standard for an animation to cancelled. You can already auto animation cancel by just queuing abilities It's just the ones that are used to be abused that are at issue.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

It's funny how many people really think that no animation cancelling would make the game easier. Good luck when you can't dodgeroll or block immediately anymore.

This.
Im pretty sure if devs would go nuts and remove it in the next patch, those people will be the first to complain about their deaths.
At this point I really hate this "I dont really know what animation cancelling is, but I've heard that its an EXPLOIT and I want it gone" attitude. Agressive ignorance isnt going to help anyone.

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

It´s a glitch people take advantage of.

You are wrong.

https://youtu.be/ThZtwhYkKSs

Please watch this video until you understand, thanks.

@Anotherone773 wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

When you weave, you dont actually cancel the skill.
And what youre asking for is already in game: if you cancel a channeled ability, it stops. Instant cast abilities, on the other hand, are instant, why would they cancel themselves.

If the ability is instant, shouldnt the animation also be instant and thus should not need to be canceled. This whole argument, IMO, is based on bad graphics design and the unwillingness to fix it.

Why would you want to cancel an instant cast ability? It wont give you any extra dps, if anything, it might even reduce it (Ive seen players who tried that in pve)
Weaving = using light attack+skill, believe me or not you arent cancelling anything by doing this, you will clearly see a short ligh attack followed by skill animation. Just try it and you will see that animation still plays.

ofSunhold wrote: »

Don't like it much and never have, but that ship sailed long ago.

Hmm but your signature says that classes dont need any nerfs. Removing weaving (you probably confuse it with animation cancelling) would be the greatest nerf to nightblade dps ever. All classes have to use light and heavy attacks to regain resources and ultimate points, but for nightblades, one of their main dps abilities (bow) requires weaving.

Back a long time ago it was kinda an accident and then they incorporated it into the game to the point where it is a base part of combat... Good luck removing that

ofSunhold wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

ofSunhold wrote: »

Don't like it much and never have, but that ship sailed long ago.

Hmm but your signature says that classes dont need any nerfs. Removing weaving (you probably confuse it with animation cancelling) would be the greatest nerf to nightblade dps ever. All classes have to use light and heavy attacks to regain resources and ultimate points, but for nightblades, one of their main dps abilities (bow) requires weaving.

Wasn't confused, and nobody asked me about weaving. Not really sure why you're trying to draw me into an argument here, but not interested.

Then Im really curious why would you want that, but if you dont want to answer... Ok then XD