Do you want ZOS to “fix” animation cancelling?

rikimm16_ESO

I saw a post saying that 99% of ESO’s population would get angry if ZOS fix the unintended feature of animation cancelling. I don’t think that number is accurate at all so I just want to see what you guys think.

I’ll be happy to see it gone... if you cancel the animation, the damage or heal doesn't go out.

dovakiin5574

No

It's a feature, ZoS has indicated this. They allow this feature so that players can block attacks instead of standing around not attacking, waiting to block.

Also, yes the damage and heal still applies if you cancel an animation (unless it is a "channeled" ability).

Shanjijri

Don’t care

I'll adapt if they do...

Kodrac

No

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Rungar

i would like damaging things to be situational and fun.

endless rotation efficiency isn't fun. IMO those who adapt to this go get razr mice or macro keyboards and tell people to git gud or L2P, others just leave, and others like myself, just don't play dps.

i suppose there are a few maniacs that destroy their fingers trying to do that.


so in short:

cause off balance, heavy attack to restore double resources=gud
sequence of buttons with light attacks and heavy attacks inbetween =bad.

great game and its a shame this part of it is garbage. Of course its just my opinion.

Apache_Kid

Don’t care

Are they going to buff all skills and gear to make up for the lost DPS? If they do then I am perfectly OK with it. Keeping up my full rotation in long fights and trying to animation cancel in the LAG is taxing and annoying.

Circuitous

No

Rungar wrote: »

i would like damaging things to be situational and fun.

endless rotation efficiency isn't fun. IMO those who adapt to this go get razr mice or macro keyboards and tell people to git gud or L2P, others just leave, and others like myself, just don't play dps.

i suppose there are a few maniacs that destroy their fingers trying to do that.


so in short:

cause off balance, heavy attack to restore double resources=gud
sequence of buttons with light attacks and heavy attacks inbetween =bad.

great game and its a shame this part of it is garbage. Of course its just my opinion.

You're severely exaggerating the actual effort required to animation cancel. It's as simple as activating a skill after a light attack, or swapping bars just after starting up a skill. That's really all there is to it.

If you don't find working a rotation fun, that's 100% fine. It isn't required for the vast majority of content - and even the hardest trials can still be completed on Normal difficulty without animation canceling at all.

It really seems like all the hate for animation canceling comes from completely misunderstanding what it actually is. You're just making use of the system ZOS put in place to make combat feel snappy and responsive. It's the same system that allows you to interrupt your attacks with a block or a bash to deal with an attacking enemy, or to stop a skill by rolling to avoid an AOE. It's not some arcane ritual that enables otherwise impossible feats, and it doesn't require you to make use of macro recorders. You've almost certainly made use of animation canceling, yourself, and just didn't realize it was that simple.

It's time for folks to stop demonizing what they don't yet understand.

Sabbathius

Yes

Yes, very much so.

Me personally, I have learned to use it, but I don't like it. It creates a lot of problems for players. The basic one being, it's hard to convince people to play this game if they watch me playing with animation canceling. All they see is my character on the screen that is thrashing around, jerking and spasming, with all kinds of crap shooting out. Someone I know called it a "Chaos Cultist", because I just suddering and shooting "Chaos energies" around, without actual animations. It looks ridiculous. It makes the game hard to sell, and costs you guys potential players, subs, store purchases, etc. You are literally shooting yourselves in the foot by keeping this nonsense. Hallmark of a quality game are beautiful, flowing animations that look good. And you are literally encouraging your players (with leaderboard rewards) to voluntarily shortcut all of that. Makes no sense even on paper, never mind in practice.

More directly, for players already in the game, it once again is a major issue. You have to balance the game around people who animation cancel, when many people do not. Those that do not are unhappy, because content is too hard. But if you make it balanced for people who don't cancel, or just light weave, then content becomes too easy for proficient cancelers. It's fine to have a large gap between skill floor and skill ceiling in the game, but animation canceling makes this gap huge, and worst of all unreliable. By that I mean latency. When server isn't heavily overloaded, I do great with animation canceling. But if I'm playing when server is under heavy load (and/or Cyrodiil), and my ping jumps into 300-400ms or my FPS drops below 25, animation canceling breaks down almost completely, things don't fire off properly, and it's just a colossal mess. In short, getting rid of animation canceling will both reduce the impact of lag on individual players (because animations playing will dilute the effect of lag, provided you do even just absolutely minimal ability queuing) and make balancing in PvE significantly easier for you.

Finally, think of your players, just on fundamental level. Average gamer today is what, 37? And getting older every day. Pretty soon, we'll be talking arthritis. Do you really think the button-mashing, extremely high APM gameplay is sustainable?! I don't want to call you dense, but really? Really, really?! Wake up. Take a sip of Reality Tea (TM).

Actually, let me take a sip of Crazy Tea (also TM) and take it one step further. You guys don't just need to fix animation canceling, but review bar swapping. That's another big issue. Secondary weapon should be situational, NOT a rotation. This is again a huge, huge, huge issue for many new players. In most MMOs, say you're fighter. You engage from range with a bow, crossbow, etc. Enemy gets close, and you switch to your main weapon and deal with them. In other words, the ranged (secondary) weapon is there for pulling, taking out runners, etc. In ESO, by contrast, you are meleeing, and in the middle of melee you whip out a bow and shoot them point blank (and swap back so that animation is canceled) and it just looks ridiculous and makes no sense. Bows don't work point-blank. Many (most?) games specifically have deadzones or penalties if you get hit while using a bow in melee range. But in ESO it is the norm. And your character constantly "morphs", one second you're swinging a massive 2H, the next you're shooting a bow in someone's face. It very, very jarring for someone who comes from more traditional games. In other games, weapon switching is more like role change. I'm a tank->I'm a ranged DPS, by switching from 1H+Shield to Bow. But it's not something you do willy nilly every few seconds. It's situational. It's also punished if you do it wrong (get caught holding a bow when Big Bob brings down his cudgel on your head).

I would strongly suggest making swapping weapons something you do very rarely. Like when boss goes into a ranged phase, you go ranged, and weapon swap takes like 1.5 seconds to do. And then back to normal. But it should not be part of a "rotation", that just looks completely stupid on every conceivable level. The only reason so many players tolerate it now is because we've had 4 years to get accustomed to the idea. But for new players, weapon swapping every 8 seconds (or less) is completely asinine. I cannot tell you how often I had this conversation with newer players, and the reaction is almost universal. Do they get used to it? Yes. Those that stick around. But they don't all stick around!

Finally, and this is totally meant to play on your ego, realize that right now the sentiment among people who LIKE animation canceling is that it is there because you accidentally created it, and don't know how to fix it. In other words, people who LIKE animation canceling think the only reason it's still in the game is developers' ineptitude. Think about that. When even your SUPPORTERS think the feature is only there because you are inept at your job. Is that a situation you want to continue? Frankly, I'd be too bloody embarrassed to show my face if this applied to me. This often-complained-about "feature" is a constant reminder of ongoing failure. I'd want it gone more than anything. Though I do get that it's not a "sexy" topic, and it's not something you can put into crown store for 6,500 crowns. But I know you guys can do a hard thing when you feel it's for the best. Like when you changed sustain with Morrowind, it was unpopular, but had to be done. With this, a silent majority will (silently) thank you. Vocal minority will moan for a bit, but then adapt, like we always do.

Jarryzzt

"I, for one, welcome our new alien overlords..."

---

I will actually support ZOS killing off animation cancelling. And maybe even bar-swapping. "But why," you ask, "why would you say such horrible and nasty things?" Because if they were to do so, one of two things would happen. Either ZOS would replace animation cancelling and bar swapping with something of comparable size, depth, complexity and challenge, and everyone would have to learn the game anew - or they'd turn the game into a 3-skill Dynasty Warriors clone, albeit perhaps without quite the arcade dynamicism, which would make for some fun PVP button-mashing (especially in a zerg).

In other words, it isn't that the current system needs fixing, but rather that I will always support redoing major aspects of the game in the name of new experiences. Especially since, at worst, even if they completely shagged a passing poodle in implementation, I'd just switch back to any one of a half-dozen high quality MMOs I'd played in recent years.

SaintSubwayy

No

There's nothing to "Fix" here, it wasnt intened in the first place, however ZOS isnt able to remove it, so they went with it and now its part othe game, like every class, skill ect.

Blackbird_V

Yes

Kodrac wrote: »

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

It is broken in a way. It began as a bug and ZoS tried to fix it and failed multiple times, then gave up and said it'll be a feature. So ideally, it does need fixing.

Vicarra

Yes

It makes me laugh that so-called "elite" players stroke themselves for being able to cheese numbers by animation cancelling, but it doesn't take skill to do it. It doesn't sort "good" from "bad" players, it sorts players with good internet from those with bad internet. I would be happy if they just got rid of it entirely.

And nerf speed pots while you're at it.

Voxicity

No

I'm not a bad player

dovakiin5574

No

Honestly imo if you don't like animation cancelling then *GO PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME*

starkerealm

No

Vicarra wrote: »

It makes me laugh that so-called "elite" players stroke themselves for being able to cheese numbers by animation cancelling, but it doesn't take skill to do it. It doesn't sort "good" from "bad" players, it sorts players with good internet from those with bad internet. I would be happy if they just got rid of it entirely.

And nerf speed pots while you're at it.

I know Aussie players who animation cancel. Care to play again?

NewBlacksmurf

Yes

Yes but “fix” isn’t the correct word as it’s not broken. I’d prefer they “change” animations specifically and not bother with any animation canceling.

@ZOS_RichLambert the only issue is that players animations need to be shortened in some cases and damaged changed in others so people are able to play the game and see visually what’s occurring.

One group of players shouldn’t be penalized for an allowed mechanic another utilizes, however the company should be transparent about what’s going on.

What’s the value in extending this debate when the solution is simple with your quarterly balancing and skill changes. Address it finally and let’s move on to real discussions.

There’s a lot of waisted animation already, so much so that you coded output seperate from the finishing animation.

OdinForge

No

If you are too casual to understand and practice animation canceling, its existence isn't important to you within the scope of how you currently play the game anyway.

Just continue running dungeons and role playing in towns, and let the people who enjoy the skill cap it provides continue practicing it.

Otherwise go find a new game, seriously.

Minalan

Yes

Sort of, if by ‘fix’ you mean cut all of the combat animations short or speed them up so that canceling isn’t really that necessary.

Why even have them to begin with when clearly nobody wants them and we all like the faster gameplay?

TequilaFire

It is that season again Easter bunnies and animation canceling threads!

Demycilian

Yes

The time has come to change ESO for the better.

Jade1986

Yes

And by yes, I mean simply speeding up the actual animation to match the cancellation so we can at least see what attacks are coming.

Doctordarkspawn

Why do people hate this?

Why cant you put your collective minds to something worth protesting, like the sustain nerfs?

NewBlacksmurf

Yes

OdinForge wrote: »

If you are too casual to understand and practice animation canceling, its existence isn't important to you within the scope of how you currently play the game anyway.

Just continue running dungeons and role playing in towns, and let the people who enjoy the skill cap it provides continue practicing it.

Otherwise go find a new game, seriously.

@OdinForge
It’s not that people aren’t able to learn or figure it out. It’s that it’s intentionally being developed as an allowed exploit used in combat.

Yes exploit is the appropriate term but in this case no one gets in trouble because the company has publicly said its allowed.

Exploit: make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource).

The back and forth comes about cause some read or saw them say yeah, we know and it’s cool. Others may not have but knowing ZOS inconsistently bans for some exploits and ignores or allows others is why it needs to be changed in one way or another.

It has nothing to do with being able to do it. It has everything to do with the messenging behind exploits and the actions that occur by the swoop of ZOS decisions

Jade1986

Yes

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

Honestly imo if you don't like animation cancelling then *GO PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME*

OdinForge wrote: »

If you are too casual to understand and practice animation canceling, its existence isn't important to you within the scope of how you currently play the game anyway.

Just continue running dungeons and role playing in towns, and let the people who enjoy the skill cap it provides continue practicing it.

Otherwise go find a new game, seriously.

Super constructive.

: In my best deep south accent :

IF YA DON LAK IT YA CAN GIT AUTTTT!!!!

°Seriously°

dovakiin5574

No

Jade1986 wrote: »

Super constructive.

: In my best deep south accent :

IF YA DON LAK IT YA CAN GIT AUTTTT!!!!

°Seriously°

It is constructive. I'm suggesting an easy way to solve their issue. For example, single player games don't require animation cancelling to be great at it. My suggestion, try TESV Skyrim

ol_BANK_lo

No

rikimm16_ESO wrote: »

I saw a post saying that 99% of ESO’s population would get angry if ZOS fix the unintended feature of animation cancelling. I don’t think that number is accurate at all so I just want to see what you guys think.

I’ll be happy to see it gone... if you cancel the animation, the damage or heal doesn't go out.

Let's stop with this topic...the last one was one too many....and now we have another. It's beaten to death.

Also, ZOS has stated more than once that animation cancelling is intended. That's why they adjusted it once already.

OdinForge

No

Jade1986 wrote: »

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

Honestly imo if you don't like animation cancelling then *GO PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME*

OdinForge wrote: »

If you are too casual to understand and practice animation canceling, its existence isn't important to you within the scope of how you currently play the game anyway.

Just continue running dungeons and role playing in towns, and let the people who enjoy the skill cap it provides continue practicing it.

Otherwise go find a new game, seriously.

Super constructive.

: In my best deep south accent :

IF YA DON LAK IT YA CAN GIT AUTTTT!!!!

°Seriously°

I'm not from the south, but basically git good.

There is nothing to be constructive of, the only thing that needs to happen is that ZOS needs to make something about AC in the tutorial. Which I and many others have stated many times.

Acting like it's something broken that needs to be fixed is incorrect, it is enjoyed by many players who enjoy the combat of ESO.

It's broken only in the minds of those that don't understand it, or more accurately care to understand it.

Jade1986

Yes

OdinForge wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

Honestly imo if you don't like animation cancelling then *GO PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME*

OdinForge wrote: »

If you are too casual to understand and practice animation canceling, its existence isn't important to you within the scope of how you currently play the game anyway.

Just continue running dungeons and role playing in towns, and let the people who enjoy the skill cap it provides continue practicing it.

Otherwise go find a new game, seriously.

Super constructive.

: In my best deep south accent :

IF YA DON LAK IT YA CAN GIT AUTTTT!!!!

°Seriously°

I'm not from the south, but basically git good.

There is nothing to be constructive of, the only thing that needs to happen is that ZOS needs to make something about AC in the tutorial. Which I and many others have stated many times.

Acting like it's something broken that needs to be fixed is incorrect, it is enjoyed by many players who enjoy the combat of ESO.

It's broken only in the minds of those that don't understand it, or more accurately care to understand it.

I love hearing people say " many " and " most " players. Again, most players arent even aware of it. And you are right, an in game tutorial, plus fixing the animations so they speed up when they are cancelled would be a good idea. But you will even see people against that, because they dont want to lose their advantage.

See, constructive, instead of being a smurf.

Jade1986

Yes

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Super constructive.

: In my best deep south accent :

IF YA DON LAK IT YA CAN GIT AUTTTT!!!!

°Seriously°

It is constructive. I'm suggesting an easy way to solve their issue. For example, single player games don't require animation cancelling to be great at it. My suggestion, try TESV Skyrim

See above post, thats constructive. You are just being a pretentious smurf in your responses.

OdinForge

No

Jade1986 wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

Honestly imo if you don't like animation cancelling then *GO PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME*

OdinForge wrote: »

If you are too casual to understand and practice animation canceling, its existence isn't important to you within the scope of how you currently play the game anyway.

Just continue running dungeons and role playing in towns, and let the people who enjoy the skill cap it provides continue practicing it.

Otherwise go find a new game, seriously.

Super constructive.

: In my best deep south accent :

IF YA DON LAK IT YA CAN GIT AUTTTT!!!!

°Seriously°

I'm not from the south, but basically git good.

There is nothing to be constructive of, the only thing that needs to happen is that ZOS needs to make something about AC in the tutorial. Which I and many others have stated many times.

Acting like it's something broken that needs to be fixed is incorrect, it is enjoyed by many players who enjoy the combat of ESO.

It's broken only in the minds of those that don't understand it, or more accurately care to understand it.

I love hearing people say " many " and " most " players. Again, most players arent even aware of it. And you are right, an in game tutorial, plus fixing the animations so they speed up when they are cancelled would be a good idea.

See, constructive, instead of being a smurf.

Well you can't get angry when people say "many" or "most", then turn around and say "most".

No fix needs to happen to the animation speed with how the current system works, and the tutorial was my idea so don't get angry when you're told to git good lol.

abelsgmx

Yes

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

It's a feature, ZoS has indicated this. They allow this feature so that players can block attacks instead of standing around not attacking, waiting to block.

Also, yes the damage and heal still applies if you cancel an animation (unless it is a "channeled" ability).

Try to block 6 attacks in a row per second poisoned with a 30% stamina cost plus the lag and see if you you have stamina to do something