zyk wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

You are not wrong. This is their attempt to lower the ceiling and raise the floor. A trained monkey can pull 35k DPS with a HA build. Problem is that it seems that the floor now might be higher than the ceiling.

Welcome to Heavy Attacks Online, ladies and gentlemen. A land where skill and teamwork has been lost to the age of the Warden and HAs.

I can't speak to Trial content, but I can say with certainty that this is not true in Vet dungeon content or vMA. Some gear modifications will be required for some players. Some players will be able to adapt just by becoming more efficient. For example, Siphoning Attacks no longer restores Stamina, therefore I had to be more careful about which soft CCs I chose to break.

If I can solo vet dungeon content without going heavy attack meta, I imagine 4 player groups will have no problem if the players choose to look in the mirror and see what they can improve on instead of hanging on to the crutch of effortless resource management.

lol, yeah sure, that's like saying ..

"ok, i am now making $3.50 an hour instead of the $4.78 per hour i was getting so, i just have to be more carefull not to eat as many snacks and only eat half of my normal dinners, and drop saturday night beers and i'm Golden!"

well that might sound good in conversation or maybe on paper, lol, but in reality, that's not how it's going to pan out lol. trust me!

The user and all related content has been deleted.

TalonKnight wrote: »

Its hard to believe that I can be interested in eso where the company messed something up in their game, and rather then fix it they call it an acceptable tactic, I hope animation cancelling is largely screwed with the new changes. Especially for the sake of pvp evenness.

You all elite players can say all you want to about AC being skill, but.... all u need is a programmable controller....

Penicillin was a happy mistake too.

But in all seriousness, animation cancelling is not a static and repetitive process. Macros cannot keep up with the infinite combinations of commands used in high level animation cancelling.

There are numerous types of commands, including light and heavy attacks, basic abilities, ults, blocks, bashes, weapon swaps, roll dodges, and others that are all used in animation cancelling each other. They all interact with each other, cancelling others' animations or being cancelled according to a hierarchy of animation priorities, and you chain them together in different orders depending on your situation.

Learning all the intricacies of that system is the first step. Then you have to put every single possible combination and order of commands into practice, learning when it's appropriate to animation cancel and when it's best to let the animations happen, and which of the many types of commands and cancels is best in a given instant -- do you ult next, heal, use one of your many attacks, block and enemy attack, roll something, pop a potion, do nothing at all? These cancels can happen between every single ability you cast, and no two fights are the same. Committing all of this to muscle memory, where you execute the correct actions perfectly in the moment without thinking, is extremely tedious and, yes, skillful.

The end result is being able to execute actions closer to the edges of the game's global cooldowns since animations would delay you past those built-in hard stops. Your damage, healing, and defensive maneuvers are all sped up, increasing your performance in direct correlation to your dexterity, reflexes, muscle memory, and experience. That is definitely one contributor to player skill, and since you have to decide on the fly in what order to issue commands, whether to cancel each animation, and in which way to do so, macros definitely can't keep up.

At least in pvp. Pve fights are repetitive, so you can memorize entire boss-fight-long rotations and not need to adapt to nearly as much. I'd imagine macros would be very useful there.

Is that a commentary on the skillfulness of pve? hehe I tease. Pve skill is more about min/maxing numbers and dissecting those ideal rotations.

But in seriousness again, I hope this sheds some light on why people call animation cancelling skillful and value it in pvp.

zyk wrote: »

While I agree with what most of what @NightbladeMechanics wrote, there are times when PVP macros would obviously be useful too. For example, when executing combos. This can apply to both defensive and offensive combos.

There are opponents I've faced who always do perfect cancels with certain combos, but not with anything else, ever.

For PVE DPS, I think it's absurd to suggest macros wouldn't be incredibly useful for most DPS rotations in a group/raid scenario.

Agreed. And those players are bad and will only be carried so far in pvp.

They're also predictable. A discerning opponent will pick up on patterns and exploit them.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

TalonKnight wrote: »

Its hard to believe that I can be interested in eso where the company messed something up in their game, and rather then fix it they call it an acceptable tactic, I hope animation cancelling is largely screwed with the new changes. Especially for the sake of pvp evenness.

You all elite players can say all you want to about AC being skill, but.... all u need is a programmable controller....

Penicillin was a happy mistake too.

But in all seriousness, animation cancelling is not a static and repetitive process. Macros cannot keep up with the infinite combinations of commands used in high level animation cancelling.

There are numerous types of commands, including light and heavy attacks, basic abilities, ults, blocks, bashes, weapon swaps, roll dodges, and others that are all used in animation cancelling each other. They all interact with each other, cancelling others' animations or being cancelled according to a hierarchy of animation priorities, and you chain them together in different orders depending on your situation.

Learning all the intricacies of that system is the first step. Then you have to put every single possible combination and order of commands into practice, learning when it's appropriate to animation cancel and when it's best to let the animations happen, and which of the many types of commands and cancels is best in a given instant -- do you ult next, heal, use one of your many attacks, block and enemy attack, roll something, pop a potion, do nothing at all? These cancels can happen between every single ability you cast, and no two fights are the same. Committing all of this to muscle memory, where you execute the correct actions perfectly in the moment without thinking, is extremely tedious and, yes, skillful.

The end result is being able to execute actions closer to the edges of the game's global cooldowns since animations would delay you past those built-in hard stops. Your damage, healing, and defensive maneuvers are all sped up, increasing your performance in direct correlation to your dexterity, reflexes, muscle memory, and experience. That is definitely one contributor to player skill, and since you have to decide on the fly in what order to issue commands, whether to cancel each animation, and in which way to do so, macros definitely can't keep up.

At least in pvp. Pve fights are repetitive, so you can memorize entire boss-fight-long rotations and not need to adapt to nearly as much. I'd imagine macros would be very useful there.

Is that a commentary on the skillfulness of pve? hehe I tease. Pve skill is more about min/maxing numbers and dissecting those ideal rotations.

But in seriousness again, I hope this sheds some light on why people call animation cancelling skillful and value it in pvp.

Kinda hard to code a solution against animation canceling with alll this factors envolded, the only thing i think is leave the player frozen until the attack/skill end his process and this solution is against to an action game

Necro much?
Inb4 thread lock

You need a LOT of skill to do end game content. You guys who are like "I get 20k cause I can't animation cancel but I deserve to do end game WAAAH" You need to calm down. If you can't at least hit 28k without animation cancelling then YOU ARE NOT READY FOR END GAME CONTENT. You want all the deserts without eating your dinner first. Learn your class, learn your role. Took me over a year to get to 30k dps, why? Because that's how this game works. Work hard, gain skill. Stop expecting to have everything handed to you on a silver platter. Also kiddies, let's remember this is a game. You can complete ANYTHING minus veteran trials without animation cancelling. Go enjoy the game you paid for or are we going to start a "I want a refund" thread too?

Guys the debate ended a year ago, @abelsgmx necro-Ed it for no real reason. Let it rest!

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

You are describing just playing the game. What you originally said was that, and I quote " Work hard, gain skill. "

And you can can the " just leave " attitude, its making you look wildly immature.

Well actually I'm describing that while getting good dps is hard, this game ISNT just about getting good dps. It aggavates me to hear so many complaints about this when - it's a game. If you want good dps then you have to work hard at that aspect. If all you care about is questing then do that. If you like everything this game has *and* want to do good dps. Then do both, but hard work is still required for high dps numbers.

Practice is key, yeah, youre right there. However, I still dont think taking an entire year to get good dps is reasonable. 6 Months, sure, but a year makes me twitch. But a small tutorial def would go a long way, and the animations being sped up, if they are still going to count, as well.

There is this magical thing called YouTube. Look up "How to do dps rotations in ESO" Alternatively join a guild that helps new/inexperienced players. (See guild recruitment section of the forums)

Even more magical thing is that posts show a date. Kinda pointless to argue about a topic a year old. Or two years old. Or older....

The op hasn't been on the forums since November 2017.....