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Animation Cancelling is about to be Changed Dramatically
THEDKEXPERIENCE
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I mentioned this in another thread, but I thought it deserved it's own post. With the kneecapping of regen on the horizon, the easiest way to combat that is via heavy ranged attacks. Meanwhile one thing that is impossible to do while making a heavy ranged attack is animation cancel. Due to this people will either have to jump on board with heavy ranged attacks and see their DPS drop, or continue to animation cancel and see their main resource get depleted at a rapid pace.
Animation cancelling has been a controversial topic since the game launched. Some people love it and consider it one of the most skilled things you can do, while others hate it. I've heard it described as cheating many times. Personally I could take it or leave it, and kind of think it is skillful but is bad in general for the health of the game's newest players.
Regardless of how you feel about it, nerfing regen is actually a solid middle ground solution. It leaves animation canceling as a viable tactic but pretty much removes it as the ONLY viable tactic.
TLDR: You better decide soon how much you want to rely on animation canceling because it will be harder to do than ever.
Edited by THEDKEXPERIENCE on April 20, 2017 5:07PM Animation cancelling has been a controversial topic since the game launched. Some people love it and consider it one of the most skilled things you can do, while others hate it. I've heard it described as cheating many times. Personally I could take it or leave it, and kind of think it is skillful but is bad in general for the health of the game's newest players.
Regardless of how you feel about it, nerfing regen is actually a solid middle ground solution. It leaves animation canceling as a viable tactic but pretty much removes it as the ONLY viable tactic.
TLDR: You better decide soon how much you want to rely on animation canceling because it will be harder to do than ever.
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Jamini✭✭✭✭✭The best players can and will still mix in animation canceling. You can ani-cancel the very end of a heavy attack to get an ability off sooner. (There's a wind-down animation for staff heavies. It is especially noticable with lightning and resto attacks just past the last tick.)"Adapt. or Die."5 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lol
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
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Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭With how I play in PvP, I animation cancel to accelerate my DPS to turbo charged levels. Just to get the life lead and end the fight quicker as a response to something else more threatening. Call it a mix up if you will.
I think it'll be used more as a way to surprise opponents and like you said, something you can't really do all the time any more.
I'm sure you've seen the guy, you know the one who animation cancels everything? I've gotten 0-deathed by a guy who animation canceled 4 skills and 1 heavy attack in a row. Never saw any tells, or nothing warning me of incoming damage -- despite he was right in front of me. That is a problem I hope to see gone with this patch.Edited by Takes-No-Prisoner on April 20, 2017 4:38PM2 -
Argawarga✭✭✭✭This seems deliberate. I mean I just assumed that part of the regen nerf was also an animation cancelling nerf.
I'm surprised more people aren't talking about this.2 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The best players can and will still mix in animation canceling. You can ani-cancel the very end of a heavy attack to get an ability off sooner. (There's a wind-down animation for staff heavies. It is especially noticable with lightning and resto attacks just past the last tick.)
This is true, but still, it's a much harder transition than with a light attack and you're not gonna get 5 bow attacks to land at once with a heavy attack.
If you can ... I want no part of you on the battlefield. Haha.0 -
coop500✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I would be happy if animation cancelling dies, that would be the best thing this patch can do if it happens.
It's not that I think it's cheating, but I do think it's unneeded and the fact it makes me feel that if I ever tried hard content, everyone will be pressuring me to animation cancel because I am not doing their speed runs fast enough.Hoping for more playable races11 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is a disingenuous title.
Animation cancelling is not limited to block cancelling, wherein block cancelling is the only thing affected by what you posted.0331
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Animation canceling is not at its ends.
First and foremost, the biggest complaints from from less avid AvA players dying to others. In AvA burst builds it's will be very much alive.
For PvE weaving basic attacks will not end either.3 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »This is a disingenuous title.
Animation cancelling is not limited to block cancelling, wherein block cancelling is the only thing affected by what you posted.
Not trying to be disingenuous. Please elaborate.
I didn't want to go over the top and call it the death of animation canceling, but it will kill it for some and hurt many. I'm more than happy to change the title if you elaborate.2 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You are not wrong. This is their attempt to lower the ceiling and raise the floor. A trained monkey can pull 35k DPS with a HA build. Problem is that it seems that the floor now might be higher than the ceiling.
Welcome to Heavy Attacks Online, ladies and gentlemen. A land where skill and teamwork has been lost to the age of the Warden and HAs.8 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Animation canceling is not at its ends.
First and foremost, the biggest complaints from from less avid AvA players dying to others. In AvA burst builds it's will be very much alive.
For PvE weaving basic attacks will not end either.
It definitely won't end, but it will no longer be possible to have an offense solely consisting of AC attacks due to regen.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This is a disingenuous title.
Animation cancelling is not limited to block cancelling, wherein block cancelling is the only thing affected by what you posted.
Not trying to be disingenuous. Please elaborate.
I didn't want to go over the top and call it the death of animation canceling, but it will kill it for some and hurt many. I'm more than happy to change the title if you elaborate.
He did elaborate. To further explain weaving basic attacks before a skill is animation canceling and the most basic and widely used ani-cancel. Nothing in the patch notes affects this at all.0 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This is a disingenuous title.
Animation cancelling is not limited to block cancelling, wherein block cancelling is the only thing affected by what you posted.
Not trying to be disingenuous. Please elaborate.
I didn't want to go over the top and call it the death of animation canceling, but it will kill it for some and hurt many. I'm more than happy to change the title if you elaborate.
Animation cancelling is a priority based system. Block is the 2nd highest priority behind barswap.
You can still animation cancel Light Attacks, Medium Attacks, Heavy Attacks with skills, and skills can still be animation cancelled with ultimates, all of which can be animation cancelled with barswapping. Block cancelling is very convenient, but it only accounts for a small portion of animation cancelling that happens.
Block cancelling would be the appropriate title IMO. One of the many reasons S&B deeps is so strong in PVP.Edited by usmcjdking on April 20, 2017 4:48PM0331
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Balamoor✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't think this patch within itself will kill animation cancelling, but I do believe that ZoS is on a determined path to kill it "Soon™"3 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭It will be refreshing to not have to see what I call "the ghey bunny hop" happen the entire fight...Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
TalonKnight✭✭✭Its hard to believe that I can be interested in eso where the company messed something up in their game, and rather then fix it they call it an acceptable tactic, I hope animation cancelling is largely screwed with the new changes. Especially for the sake of pvp evenness.
You all elite players can say all you want to about AC being skill, but.... all u need is a programmable controller....3 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This is a disingenuous title.
Animation cancelling is not limited to block cancelling, wherein block cancelling is the only thing affected by what you posted.
Not trying to be disingenuous. Please elaborate.
I didn't want to go over the top and call it the death of animation canceling, but it will kill it for some and hurt many. I'm more than happy to change the title if you elaborate.
Animation cancelling is a priority based system. Block is the 2nd highest priority behind barswap.
You can still animation cancel Light Attacks, Medium Attacks, Heavy Attacks with skills, and skills can still be animation cancelled with ultimates, all of which can be animation cancelled with barswapping. Block cancelling is very convenient, but it only accounts for a small portion of animation cancelling that happens.
Block cancelling would be the appropriate title IMO. One of the many reasons S&B deeps is so strong in PVP.
Thanks for this. Title altered. Much appreciated.0 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭Actually animations cancelling will go up not down. Since it is free easy to learn and help sustain dps.Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.2 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Actually animations cancelling will go up not down. Since it is free easy to learn and help sustain dps.
You think? I agree it helps your DPS. That's pretty obvious, but wouldn't spamming ACs lead to a ridiculously fast burning of resources in both PVE and PVP? I don't see how someone could AC more with significantly less resource regeneration.
I'm thinking that a ACer will be forced into a heavy attack pattern or be left without any magic/stam.0 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Actually animations cancelling will go up not down. Since it is free easy to learn and help sustain dps.
You think? I agree it helps your DPS. That's pretty obvious, but wouldn't spamming ACs lead to a ridiculously fast burning of resources in both PVE and PVP? I don't see how someone could AC more with significantly less resource regeneration.
I'm thinking that a ACer will be forced into a heavy attack pattern or be left without any magic/stam.
Heavy and light attacks cost nothing and with tenacity you may get back more than you expend.
Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.0 -
GDOFWR420✭✭✭✭Already happened on xbox one I can't animation cancel my dk anymore. I used to be able to cancel a heavy attack with force pulse but not since homestead did I actually notice it doesn't work anymore0 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Actually animations cancelling will go up not down. Since it is free easy to learn and help sustain dps.
You think? I agree it helps your DPS. That's pretty obvious, but wouldn't spamming ACs lead to a ridiculously fast burning of resources in both PVE and PVP? I don't see how someone could AC more with significantly less resource regeneration.
I'm thinking that a ACer will be forced into a heavy attack pattern or be left without any magic/stam.
Heavy and light attacks cost nothing and with tenacity you may get back more than you expend.
Gotcha. For what it's worth I've always done a ton of heavy attacks. I don't so much rely on them to burst recover when low, but instead use them as jabs of sorts. I'll just heavy attack away until I'm gap closed in PVP and then have a full gas tank to go ham on someone in my comfort zone.
In PVE I do rely on them to burst recover. It usually seems to take 4 to 6 heavy attacks to bring me back up to near full, but I rarely ever let my magic get lower than about 50%.
Most my animation canceling is done when I'm soloing world bosses. In PVP it simply isn't ideal for my character so I don't do it that much.0 -
Kemenril✭✭✭Appreciate the thoughtful thread. Not a fan of AC but as it stands it's fair to say it's a legitimate part of gameplay. As you say, this may be a way to redress it without a total redesign.
The problem of course is that they are kind of retconning by another channel: they can't fix AC so they pick another target? But was resource management and sustain really a problem before? Like, to the degree that it needed nerfing? I'm not sure, as I am weak on my metagame. But it would seem like a very inelegant design solution to me, to fix one problem by causing another.
It's like, "Want to get rid of these beetles? Why not introduce millions of poisonous CANE TOADS!"
*waits*2 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Appreciate the thoughtful thread. Not a fan of AC but as it stands it's fair to say it's a legitimate part of gameplay. As you say, this may be a way to redress it without a total redesign.
The problem of course is that they are kind of retconning by another channel: they can't fix AC so they pick another target? But was resource management and sustain really a problem before? Like, to the degree that it needed nerfing? I'm not sure, as I am weak on my metagame. But it would seem like a very inelegant design solution to me, to fix one problem by causing another.
It's like, "Want to get rid of these beetles? Why not introduce millions of poisonous CANE TOADS!"
*waits*
My broken hand hurts!
But not as much after I broke my leg to compensate!
That's probably how it went.2 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »I mentioned this in another thread, but I thought it deserved it's own post. With the kneecapping of regen on the horizon, the easiest way to combat that is via heavy ranged attacks. Meanwhile one thing that is impossible to do while making a heavy ranged attack is animation cancel. Due to this people will either have to jump on board with heavy ranged attacks and see their DPS drop, or continue to animation cancel and see their main resource get depleted at a rapid pace.
Animation cancelling has been a controversial topic since the game launched. Some people love it and consider it one of the most skilled things you can do, while others hate it. I've heard it described as cheating many times. Personally I could take it or leave it, and kind of think it is skillful but is bad in general for the health of the game's newest players.
Regardless of how you feel about it, nerfing regen is actually a solid middle ground solution. It leaves animation canceling as a viable tactic but pretty much removes it as the ONLY viable tactic.
TLDR: You better decide soon how much you want to rely on animation canceling because it will be harder to do than ever.
this is awesome and very well worded.
the only problem i have with this, is that a player has noted and spoken this rather then a dev.
in-fact, it angers me that we have to look that deeply into it and come up with answers like this to justify changes made by the devs.2 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »I mentioned this in another thread, but I thought it deserved it's own post. With the kneecapping of regen on the horizon, the easiest way to combat that is via heavy ranged attacks. Meanwhile one thing that is impossible to do while making a heavy ranged attack is animation cancel. Due to this people will either have to jump on board with heavy ranged attacks and see their DPS drop, or continue to animation cancel and see their main resource get depleted at a rapid pace.
Animation cancelling has been a controversial topic since the game launched. Some people love it and consider it one of the most skilled things you can do, while others hate it. I've heard it described as cheating many times. Personally I could take it or leave it, and kind of think it is skillful but is bad in general for the health of the game's newest players.
Regardless of how you feel about it, nerfing regen is actually a solid middle ground solution. It leaves animation canceling as a viable tactic but pretty much removes it as the ONLY viable tactic.
TLDR: You better decide soon how much you want to rely on animation canceling because it will be harder to do than ever.
this is awesome and very well worded.
the only problem i have with this, is that a player has noted and spoken this rather then a dev.
in-fact, it angers me that we have to look that deeply into it and come up with answers like this to justify changes made by the devs.
Thank you for the kind words.0 -
alexkdd99✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think some people are not getting what op is saying. We know regular/heavy attacks don't cost anything, but only heavy attacks restore resources.
Currently you use light attacks between skills but with the resource nerf you may have to use heavy attacks instead. It is alot longer to use heavy attacks in place of light.
If you continue to animation cancel like you have then you very well may find yourself running out of resources. Unless you are already incorporating heavy attacks into your rotation.
I don't think OP was claiming that you won't be able to animation cancel at all. Just that it won't be as efficient due to running out of resources.1 -
Kay1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would be happy if animation cancelling dies, that would be the best thing this patch can do if it happens.
It's not that I think it's cheating, but I do think it's unneeded and the fact it makes me feel that if I ever tried hard content, everyone will be pressuring me to animation cancel because I am not doing their speed runs fast enough.
Without sustain and animation canceling lol.
I can already imagine "1 spot left for Spindleclutch 1, must be magward or magsorc max cp gold and must do dps test before we start and show rotations"
New achievements will also come "Finishing a normal dungeon with pugs will reward you with the title" The plebs conqueror" "
I can't wait
We should also remove potions.Edited by Kay1 on April 20, 2017 8:59PMK1 The Big Monkey6
This discussion has been closed.