FakeFox wrote: »

Blackleopardex wrote: »

Funfact: This is the reason why I made this threat in the first place.

The player who made that"ESO is hard" thread is disabled. Do you need a challenge? Try to play like him, with one hand only.

(yes, I read the other thread, I know that he is using both of his hands, but they are not too good for this kind of gameplay)

Anotherone773 wrote: »

An alternative, if you want more of a challenge is to get you some random green dropped gear and use it instead. Dont use ultimates. If you really want to make it challenging go with random dropped gear and unallocate all your cp.

If I wanted challenges where I nerf myself, I'd go do SL1 and NH or NB runs in Dark Souls or DS2 if I really wanted pain. Maybe the OP was just looking for some solo challenges and was bored with vMA, etc.

If you're focusing on Questing for a while and this is a problem for you, then just spend the 3k to remove all of your CP and then try again. Or can you even do that, I never tried cause I don't really care much.

These threads come up fairly regularly (almost like clockwork)... and inevitably leads to the same arguments being tossed around by those for/against it. In the end the only real truth's are:

- ZOS can't up the overland difficulty to satisfy those who want it mechanically harder without chasing off the majority of their player base (as has happened in other games that did this)
- ZOS is likely too lazy/cheap to implement the 1 solution that would most likely benefit both sides of the coin (ie veteran / hard mode toggle & instances).

The biggest problem is there is no realistic way to scale mobs differently based on the players attacking them - how could they deal with say 1 new player with 0 cp attacking the same mob as a 700cp end-game built player? It couldn't. Scaling the player differently would work.... but only so long as they don't attack the same mob's, because once again due to the difference in scaling the mobs would die quicker/slower than expected.

Realistically the only way to solve this without making the overland too hard for people who are new, like it easy, have disabilities, etc while also providing a harder experience for those who want it... would be to split the playerbase by offering a toggle that would put players into different "instances" of the game... either 'normal' mode as it is now (the default) or a 'harder' mode for those who want it harder.

This would keep the game as it is now for those who want it, while allowing those who want a harder experience in the overland game to get this as well. this way both sides get what they want. The drawbacks on this?

- There would be no communication between instances. So those who prefer it harder will find less players running around (sorry, but the ppl after 'hard' gaming are a minority of the playerbase), which means less communication, less opportunity to group up, more reliance of guilds to do group focused things, etc.
- ESO server's. We all know the server's & netcode for ESO are not the greatest, so who knows if they could handle a split-instance system like this.
- ZOS actually having the capability of coding for this type of this, and actually doing it (they've shown no inclination up to now of even being interested)

And yes, this kind of split-instance system does work, and has worked in other games.

- Guild Wars had the normal-mode / hard-mode system in place. When you finished the main story you unlocked hard-mode, which when toggled on would put you into a harder instance of each area... with toughter mobs, better ai, better skills on mobs, etc to face. Thing is GW1 wasn't really an MMO, and every single map/zone was it's own seperate instance 9so towns/hubs were an instance... you had to portal out through a loading screen to get into an actual combat zone).

- SWTOR is probably the better example for ZOS. The dev's there completely split PvE and open-world PvP into 2 different instances. So if you're in the PvE instance you can not do any PvP anywhere apart from a few specific zones/area's that are opvp or pvp marked. Whereas if you flag for PvP you get moved to a completely different instance of the world where you can PvP all you want anywhere in the game while also PvE'ing. This way those who want to engage in open world PvP can do so without it effecting those with no interest in it.

I'm personally against making ESO overworld harder, but I am biased due to physical disability which effects my ability to play harder games (unless they are more slow-paced & methodical games such as Dark Souls 1). However I also understand that there are those who want to play harder content everywhere... it's players like this for instance that got ANet to make the hard-mode in GW1. I'd love for ZOS to come and say they were putting resources into making a split-instance system for those who want the game to be harder... while keeping an 'easy' mode for players like me. I'd back that 100%.

PS. I call DS1 slow-paced & methodical because that is how I find it. The moves are known and telegraphed and it's a game of remembering movesets and timing. It's not frantic button smashing to attack, dodge, etc... but a move in, dodge when needed, attack once or twice (but don't get greedy!), dodge, watch, etc. I can play DS1 just fine, and have beaten it multiple times... but I absolutely hate DS3 for how it ditch's the slow-paced combat for more frantic button mashing.

Gargath wrote: »

The bosses in overland delves could be scaled to a player level, cp and gears. That could partially solve the issue I think.
So for max cp player the boss has no longer 150k hp but e.g. 1,5 milion instead and hits 2x harder.

What would be pretty nice actually.

So you could scale all veretan content to CP 300, and then upwards from that for every 30 CP things start to scale. That would be very nice. And all instances would obviously stay the same.

aliyavana wrote: »

Questing isn't challenging if you know what your doing. The buff I'd like to see is red aoes and attacks you are supposed to block/bash become deadlier so we can teach new players to stay outta the red. So many pugs blame the tank or healer for being unable to help with a instant kill red telegraph

All well and good. I'd like to see the telegraphs before I'm dead all ready.
That is really all that stops me from enjoying end game pve. It is probably my issue, as in hardware and I can't play bahaha. Anyway, I dislike the how the telegraphs work as to me its a very connection biased mechanic.

essi2 wrote: »

As someone who recently started over on NA to play with some friends, I can say with confidence that Overland is already challenging enough for non-CP characters.

And I don't see how ZOS could fix this without shafting new players.

No it really really isn’t. I did the same and started a new char on NA. I have 208 CP there now and completed vMA with 198 CP. Overland is really really easy regardless of gear and CP.

Seriously, just take off your armour and swap your BiS weapons for random enchant dropped ones and go up against a garden variety overland world boss. There's your challenge. Then, if you manage to kill them all that way, go solo some DLC bosses like that.

Delve bosses are supposed to be easy; they're there for people in dropped gear who only know how to light attack, not for you.

%90 of the playerbase are potatoes so as a result overland is designed for potatoes.

ZOS will resist doing anything that will split the player base any further, this leaves only one realistic option... basically a nerf me toggle that drops my power relative to my surroundings but maybe ups the item drops. I’d be up for that sometimes, but to be honest... I like feeling like a god, maybe quest bosses could have an equivalent of a scroll of glorious battle like you get in dungeons

OP takes a gun to knife fight.... then complains the guy with the knife died to quick.!! XD

FakeFox wrote: »

A boss that dies in three seconds and does no mechanics what so ever isn't fun and sadly this is the case with pretty much all overland content. I really like questing, however with every enemy dying in two hits it simply isn't fun. In my opinion the level scaling needs some serious tweaking, so that endgame players don't outscale overland enemies so much.

I haven't played for 12 months. I started a warden. I haven't put CP into her. Normal quests are fairly easy. WBs kill me. So do some delve bosses on my first attempt. So do group bosses in public dungeons. Not as quickly as they did my first time through on my templar but at 22 I can't solo them all. Remember you often don't even an ulti unlocked below level 20.
When if i can, without cp and gold gear, ie as my dps gets good, then i will know i can play my class. I couldn't solo WB on my first toon, a built for heals templar until i hit cp 300 ish.

Knowing how to read the mechanics and reacting becomes innate. But learning them the first time takes time and practice. WBs and public dungeon bosses seem pretty balanced for new players. Delve bosses are easy if you understand mmos. Not if you are starting from scratch. So I agree with those who have said if you want challenge at end game do vet stuff. That's what it's for. However i do agree challenging solo content for end gamers could be added to. vMA must get tedious after a while.
SUGGESTION
Make one area like Craglorn have elite WBs tuned to end game dps with complex mechanics. Add a zone warning that these wb's are elites or nemesis. But make the mechanics soloable.

FakeFox wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

It's delve boss... hardly reflective of overland content at its toughest. They have like 130k HP....

Go do that to an actual world boss and then come back and complain...

You seem to forget also not everybody is an endgame player, lower levels struggle with these bosses alone.

Please read through my suggestion more carefully. I never suggested anything that would affect low level players negatively. I'm aware that world-bosses are harder, however they are a exception and my point isn't on world-bosses.

It's still a really bad example to point to. The regular enemies in Craglorn or Vvardenfell can be more difficult when they gang up...

You also have public dungeons, who's bosses are stronger (not by much)- but are still a way better example of your point - but seriously you use a form of confirmation bias here by going after the weakest opponent possible, it doesn't really make me agree we need a veteran mode. You cherry picked for a very weak and bad example - and your original post reads as "OMG I trashed a boss in 3 seconds, they're so weak" - but then you realize it's a delve boss and your entire post's meaning is kinda lost.

The delve bosses can be thought of more as tougher regular enemies... you know like how in Skyrim you find Bandit Chiefs with regular Bandits who are just slightly stronger. They're hardly bosses to speak of.